MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Jun 15, 09 - 08:49 am Comment from: MizuInOz

And I so want one!

the sata 1,5gb sucks for those of us who wants ssd in the future!

Jun 15, 09 - 09:06 am Comment from: breeze

Why can't we get a non glare screen option on the 15"?

@breeze

You can't get a non glare screen option on the 15" because Apple doesn't offer one.

Jun 15, 09 - 09:42 am Comment from: LTD*

@emil:

Unless you're copying large files all day, you'll never notice it. Most I/O processes are small.

Jun 15, 09 - 09:43 am Comment from: LTD*

And the glare issue has been greatly overexaggerated, but has unfortunately stuck in the minds tech enthusiasts.

Jun 15, 09 - 10:04 am Comment from: Amazin1

I agree about glare "issue". I have a 24" iMac desktop both at work (with windows right behind me) and at home. I also have an MacBook I use at work. I was totally freaked out that glare from screens would be a problem. After using all units for over a year, I cannot say I have found any problem. A sample of one does not a universe make, but this sample of one finds the "issue" to be a "non-issue".

Jun 15, 09 - 10:06 am Comment from: qka

What, no snarky comment like last week's about this guy Cheng & SD slots?

Jun 15, 09 - 10:10 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

@LTD... over-exaggerated to you.

There's no reason why Apple cannot extend a matte screen option to the 15" and 13" MacBook Pros.

The loss of the ExpressCard/34 slot from the 15" is unfortunate.

I've also read that the speed of the SATA bus is now SLOWER than before.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/06/15/macbook_sata_slow/

The de-pro-ification of the 15" MBP is troubling.

Jun 15, 09 - 10:13 am Comment from: Scott Rose

I'm very happy that PC Magazine spends a significant amount of time pointing out the horrible mistake that Apple made by removing the ExpressCard slot from what is supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL machine. Without the ExpressCard slot, this machine is nothing more than a CONSUMER machine.

I discuss this at length on my blog here:
http://scottworldblog.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/apple-bring-the-expresscard-slot-back-to-the-15-macbook-pro/

If you feel the same way, be sure to complain to Apple on the MacBook Pro feedback page here:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html

Jun 15, 09 - 10:44 am Comment from: quietly, please

@Scott:

Get over yourself.

Yes, you can be grumpy. That's fine. Many people who have, for example, VZW express cards will be bummed out. The price was lowered by enough on the machine that all of them can buy iPhones and tether their machines that way - assuming AT&T;ever freaking gets around to allowing it. An external USB2 multi-card reader is smaller than a pack of cigarettes and will read any kind of media card you want. Yes, you could plug in a new firewire bus card to plug in multiple devices - but you can do the same thing with a firewire hub, and if you're plugging in multiple external devices, carrying the hub isn't going to kill you. No, you can't plug in an ESATA card - but Apple never really bit into the ESATA standard, preferring its own Firewire. I'd say that affects a tiny minority of users - again, probably the serious pro user who has a desktop Mac on which they do much of their post-processing. If it's that important to you to have the expresscard slot, get the 17 inch screen, or buy a 15 from the remaining stock.

Apple makes design decisions. Sometimes they screw up, but in relation to the broader computer manufacturer market, it seems they screw up a whole lot less. The fact is, you buy Apple computers because they're the best tool for the job you do. If Apple makes a design decision that makes it harder for you to do your job, then by all means let them know. Maybe you can figure out a workaround. But rending your garment and beating your breast about the injustice of it all seems a little over the top.

Jun 15, 09 - 11:59 am Comment from: Scott Rose

@quietly, please:

I know you love Apple's products as much as the rest of us, but I think you're missing the point here, and I think you should be much less cavalier about this than you are.

As Mac users, we have no choice but to purchase our new hardware from Apple. We have signed up for an ecosystem of one vendor providing all of our new computers. So we already start off with a very limited amount of choice to begin with, which is somewhat mitigated by the fact that Apple gives us ways to expand our hardware.

But when Apple suddenly removes a MASSIVE expansion port from us that provides almost unlimited expansion possibilities, they are REMOVING WHAT LITTLE CHOICE we already have in our ecosystem. I wouldn't be so quick to defend any company who removes important choice from their customers. Choice which many of their customers depend on daily.

If this doesn't personally affect you, then fine. But don't criticize others because it DOES affect them. And don't blindly defend Apple simply because it doesn't affect you and because you like a lot of the products that Apple releases.

This decision affects a lot of people. People who can't find a suitable workaround with FireWire 800, and people who won't purchase a 17" MacBook Pro. By the way, have you ever tried to open up a 17" MBP on an economy seat on an airplane? Good luck with that... next you'll say that you want all of us to fly first class too?

For example, are you aware that eSATA is something like 4 times faster than FireWire 800? Obviously you don't use eSATA ports, but lots of people do. Maybe you should talk to the thousands of professional videographers or professional photographers who depend on eSATA functionality daily. Talk to the people at red.com, who have an entire line of professional videocameras that work best with an eSATA port.

And why suddenly should we be required to carry a FireWire 800 hub when we used to be able to have extra FireWire 800 ports directly in our machine? (By the way, not all hubs are created equally and may not all provide full throughput.)

And the difference between an ExpressCard modem and a USB modem is vast, if only for the fact that the ExpressCard modem is more securely fastened into your machine and doesn't stick out as much. And many people are actually locked into 2-year cell contracts with their particular ExpressCard modem, so they have to use that modem unless they want to pay a penalty fee.

These are just a few brief examples off the top of my head.

But the thing that disturbs me most of all is you quickly jumping down anyone's throat who is critical of Apple or who may possibly be affected by a bad choice on Apple's end. If it doesn't affect you, then stay out of the argument.

@ Scott Rose

During the keynote, Phil stated that the Express Card slot was used by less than 1% of MBP users. Why include a port if almost no one used it? Yes, it will inconvenience a very small percentage of users but that is something that Apple does from time to time. This is the price of admission.

Jun 15, 09 - 12:29 pm Comment from: LTD*

If something is used by less than 1% of OS X users, it would be brainless to keep including it.

Jun 15, 09 - 12:46 pm Comment from: Scott Rose

Perhaps 1% of general users, but in professional videography & photography circles, that ExpressCard slot is used a lot.

The SD card slot seems even more pointless because it's so limiting. You could have added an SD card reader into the ExpressCard slot if you wanted to.

I would be happy with Apple providing us with a build-to-order option for the ExpressCard slot. Give the customer the choice, particularly if it's a "professional" machine. If it's a consumer machine, it's not such a big deal, but this is supposed to be the "pro" line of laptops.

@ Penelope Pickles

schiller said usage was in the single digits, not 1%.

Jun 15, 09 - 01:05 pm Comment from: Big Als MBP

So, the morel of this story is, if that 1% bitches loud enough, Apple will redesign the Aluminum case process again so that they can put in an ExpressCard slot instead of the SD card reader.

For 1% they will do that.

NOT!

Apple doesn't do niches, or Windows for that matter.

Scott Rose: For example, are you aware that eSATA is something like 4 times faster than FireWire 800?

With real-world harddisks (and eSATA is useless for pretty much everything except that dying device type) the difference isn't nearly that large. And eSATA is an ugly hack with problematic real-life behaviour even if it's used for that highly limited purpose.

FireWire is much more flexible, multi-master-capable, allows daisy chaining and supports hot plugging properly.

Given the not spectacular performance difference to eSATA it is unlikely any professional user would actually feel a major limitation in real life, and if he/she actually does there's either the previous model or the MBP17" to bridge the wait until USB3 makes both FireWire and eSATA obsolete.

eSATA is a dead end protocol which would be a pointless addition given the existing and the upcoming technologies. It would produce a bunch of additional legacy issues down the road without even providing a advantage in the meantime.

Scott Rose: Maybe you should talk to the thousands of professional videographers or professional photographers who depend on eSATA functionality daily.

Are you actually trying to tell us there are cameras which can be connected only via eSATA?

Scott Rose: And why suddenly should we be required to carry a FireWire 800 hub when we used to be able to have extra FireWire 800 ports directly in our machine?

FireWire doesn't need hubs unless the peripherals are crippled by lacking a daisy chaining output. Normally you simply plug the devices together and into the computer and that's it.

Scott Rose: And the difference between an ExpressCard modem and a USB modem is vast, if only for the fact that the ExpressCard modem is more securely fastened into your machine and doesn't stick out as much. And many people are actually locked into 2-year cell contracts with their particular ExpressCard modem, so they have to use that modem unless they want to pay a penalty fee.

I guess Apple can survive offending people who absolutely have to buy their next MacBook Pro right now before they've completed their two-year contract using their previous one. Plus they've just provided an alternative with iPhone tethering. Non-issue from Apple's point of view and I'd largely agree.

Scott Rose: But the thing that disturbs me most of all is you quickly jumping down anyone's throat who is critical of Apple or who may possibly be affected by a bad choice on Apple's end. If it doesn't affect you, then stay out of the argument.

Because it is mostly pointless whining using very flimsy arguments as pretenses.

But that's just par for the course in the Mac community. Whining is part of our culture, I guess.

Just to add: The SD card slot is more compact than the ExpressCard slot, so they were able to include it in the MBP 13" as well. The net gain for the larger number of users will be positive relative to the loss of the ExpressCard slot in the MBP 15".

I can understand that some people have actually used it, but any manufacturer is forced to make compromises, and hopefully good ones at that.

With the impending advent of USB3 there will be multiple high-performance ports which are more flexible and in the end more useful than any of the older special ones. I'd simply skip this transitional lineup for now if that is a concern (actually, that's exactly what I'm doing – my next MBP will have Nehalem+USB3).

ExpressCards have never been plentiful, and they'll remain just an episode.

Jun 15, 09 - 04:54 pm Comment from: Sky

@Penelope:

The single-digit argument is reasonable on the surface, but here is the problem. Let's say the number is 3%. Then this subset represents those who create content and tools for the other 97% to use. It is a highly influential community of artists and developers who can make or break a platform in the long run. So Apple needs to be careful not to alienate them in pursuit of short-term profits.

Jun 15, 09 - 05:09 pm Comment from: MizuInOz

@all of the chronic complainers about the ExpressCard slot...

If you are so professional and great and need the Expresscard, get over your b1tchen and buy a 17" MBP - you have more screen landscape to do all of that stuff that is highly influential and creative of tools for us minions. And you can buy a matte or glossy screen.

So quitychurc1tchen and get on with it. If you can't afford it, then you really aren't so pro are you?

If size limitation is a problem, then you need to re-establish your priorities and work out at the gym more! I carry my 17" MBP all over the world - and all of the accoutrements.

Whinging is so damned un-poor-fessional.

And yes, among other things in my life - I am a professional underwater photographer with over 200,000 frames in stock and make about 100 K a year on my "hobby" plus an  developer and do a tremendous amount of out-of-the-office research...

Have I in all of the years (since 1984 - with Macs) used an Expresscad slot? Nope. No need... have always solved my needs without the use.

And most especially @ Scott Rose... I'd have more respect for your opinions if you didn't advertise your blog when you make a comment. It has a negative effect because I want to have a reason to go read your stuff and have yet to find one.

To all the rest of the enthusiastic 15" MBPers out there: I am replacing my MBA with this puppy! Why? Better access to my data, more computing power and I really do not need my confuser to fit in an envelope.

So, I gave my MBA to one of the engineers who works with me.

All the best from the Land Downunder!

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