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The prediction of doubling is too conservative? According to what numbers? Over what time frame? Don't just spout useless bullshit: back it up.

Also a little late in coming seeing as how RC2 is already out.

Wow... But did this PC user consider how much it's gonna cost him in hardware to switch? Hey, I'm the biggest Mac fanout there, but it's a huge nut for this guy to make such a switch. This is the reason why marketshare hasn't trippled already. We are on our way and Leopard will be a triumphant landmark in software design.


I just hope that keeping in so secret isn't going to mean that it's buggier becuase less people have had the chance to use/feedback on how it runs.

I know I have my shares and can't wait to see them go long!!!

Hopefully Gates and MicroSlut wont put a hit out on Steve Jobs for at least a few more years!

Why doesn't anyone know the difference between schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder a.k.a. dissociative identity disorder?

Schizophrenia: characterized as demonstrating disorganized thinking, and as experiencing delusions or auditory hallucinations.

Dissociative Identity Disorder: the existence in an individual of two or more distinct personalities or ego-states, each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment.

The author is trying to say that the UI is inconsistent by comparing it to someone who has two or more personalities. That would be a person with dissociative identity disorder. Not someone with schizophrenia.

Also a little late in coming seeing as how RC2 is already out.

C|Net actually gave Vista RC2 a bad review yesterday via video. Apple is still leagues ahead of Microsoft in OS innovation no matter how much Active/DirectX hell Microsoft can throw at it.

the reality is alot of people will love Vista or just stick with XP
I cant see this getting alot more sales for Apple. I just doesnt work like this in the real world
Also how can we rave about Leopard when we have not seen it yet just the same as we have nor seen the final of Vista though that seems more accessible with RC2
I am a Mac user that has previously been a Windows user but switched a year or 2 ago.
I dont see my friends switching and I am a great sales guy and have pushed to show them and I think 1 has and thats it over 12 months.

"Windows has more software" is "absolute bunk" because the statement is patently false.

No, it's not false. Windows does have more software than OS X. If you want to run Windows-only software, you need Windows. Who cares if you're installing it on a Mac or a Dell. MS makes money either way.

Why wait for Leopard.

Tiger smokes Vista today.

the whole poitn was you have a choice of more software with Mac hardware if you want you can run whatever os and that is a huge sales point.. alot of people really love that idea.. people like options so I agree that in that sense Mac hardware has more software available.
The other comment about software have to say is that in the mainstream it is not an issue for 95% of users to run just OSX software I too thought there was very little when I switched but after a month of 2 I found that there is a ton of stuff and the bets part is the quality seems to be alot better than a large proportion of the Windows software. It is natural for this to happen on the Windows side of life cause everyone and their dog jumps on the "hey i can write software so I will release a windows release) Maybe they can write software but it wouldnt last 10 mintues on the Mac platform alot of the time because Mac users are use to a higher caliber of product and in a smaller market it has to be excellent to get the sales.. Windows well you have so many users that even rubbish will get a reasonibly high level of sales compared to the OSX platform.

""Windows has more software" is "absolute bunk" because the statement is patently false. Only Apple Mac can run Mac OS X and Windows and Linux."

MDN, that argument would make sense if he had said PCs have more software than Macs, but that isn't what he said. Windows software doesn't become OS X software just because it's run on a Mac.

The best way to put it is that running Windows allows you to ignore five times as much software as running Mac OS X.

Hope this doesn't come true...yet. Apple does not have the manufacturing capacity.

Brian, are you some 1st year psych student, trying to show how much you know about what the majority of pople don't care about? Give it a rest, we knew what he meant. Go back to you study group to find someone who cares.

[was that too rough?]

I'm thinking that some of these XP folks need to be deprogrammed long before being allowed to use any kind
OS X, let alone "Leopard".

If these guys were smart they would switch now, learn "Tiger" or even "Panther" and be ahead of the game by the time "Leopard" is on the street and proven.

By then most of there bad habits should have been cleaned up.

The prediction of doubling is too conservative? According to what numbers? Over what time frame? Don't just spout useless bullshit: back it up.

How do you back up a prediction? Speaking of spouting bullshit.

Brian,

I, for one, appreciate a bit of incidental education. Thanks.

Was that too polite?

OS X has only a fraction of the games available for Windows. If I wanted to run Half Life 2 (for example) on my Mac Pro, I still need to install Vista or XP.

Now, I'm not saying that the whole argument of "windows has more software" isn't bunk, but I can say, with confidence, that its quite true for gaming.

That said, I have a Mac Book Pro and a Mac Pro.

How do you back up a prediction? Speaking of spouting bullshit.

Smartass:

How do you back up a prediction?

Maybe cite the percentage of growth quarter of quarter, year over year and how those numbers trend toward your outlook? Studies citing the willingness of people to switch? Trends that actually show when these numbers would indicate a doublign or tripling of market share (easy for MDN to make a call ofr more than doubling and then not indicate any time frame for it whatsoever)? Rate of exodus away from windows from current customers? Anything?

I realize you're way too stupid to get this, but a prediction without tangible factual basis isn't a prediction at all, it's baseless banter that bafoons like you read as fact.

Smartass:

Furthermore, do yourself a favor and walk into your boss' office Monday morning and predict a tripling of net revenues. Don't tell your boss when or how such a thing can be accomplished. When asked, let them know you're of the opinion that predictions can't be backed with facts or statistics.

You'll be running the place in no time.

ApplePi seems to think that the author would spend a lot more in hardware to switch to Mac OS X than it would to continue using Vista. Here's where he's wrong: If he wants to run Vista to its full extent, he's going to need to invest in a new PC anyway. Therefore, he has the choice to buy a new PC with Vista or buy a new Mac with OS X. Cost is roughly equivalent, but the benefits of Macs/Mac OS X are clear.

The Lone Macster,

From w3schools site, OS useage statistics.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
Sep 2006 3.8%
Sep 2005 3.1%
Sep 2004 2.6%
Sep 2003 2.0%

This is one of many examples around the web of growing Mac market share. The statistics come from a popular web development site that is either platform neutral or slightly MS leaning. The time of data collection represents a significant period of chip speed disparity followed by the Intel transition. Even in the dark days, Mac useage doubled over three years. Now that Mac enjoys massive mind share, positive press, price and hardware parity (at least), no OS limitations and massively bad press for Microsoft, 12 months would seem to be an aggressive but possible estimate for market share doubling.

****************

Shaneblyth,

You are personally responsible for a doubling of the market share represented by yourself. If other Mac owners are half as successful, and you add in online and physical store sales, doubling of marketshare will happen quickly. (I am probably confusing market share and installed base, but I think you get the idea.)

Like a good foot soldier I submitted this article to MDN and so will live in infamy forever (or until the last pixel dies).

Whoops. My comment was to the good Captain.

Paul
you said
Shaneblyth,

You are personally responsible for a doubling of the market share represented by yourself. If other Mac owners are half as successful, and you add in online and physical store sales, doubling of marketshare will happen quickly. (I am probably confusing market share and installed base, but I think you get the idea.)

You just made my day. I never thought of it like that..
I truly am awesome (wink)

thank you for pointing that out

Yicks I just realised I have converted 2 pc users to Mac from Win PC
how does that fit in the market share
I am going hunting for more converts

I'd say doubling it is an excellent prediction (for now). I'd say calling that too conservative is getting way ahead of yourself. Don't underestimate the power of the anti-Mac zealots. That said, I sure hope your right MDN!!!

The Video is Flawed (Wrong) on Cnet ok.

The Vista Rc2 took 20 mins to install fresh copy. I am running 2 and half years old pc. Its P4 3.00GHZ, 1Gb of Ram, and 256Mb video card Ati and on Intel Motherboard. Its running faster then Rc1 ok. Its less Memory Hog in Rc2 now. The vista is Stable so far. It has been running for few days without no restarts at all. And the Compatibility Wizard is found in Rc2 5744 Build. Just Right click on Program and Properties its there. Another Method is under Help and Support section and type Compatibility Wizard you will find it there. I dont know why cnet is saying its Missing from Rc2. The Video Glitch i dont experience no glitch they might be using generic video card it seems. And the OS is still in Beta Stages not final code. Few people think that Rc2 means its out of Beta Stages. There just wrong ok.

Windows 95, 98, Me. I can believe it crashed with blue screens of death for no reason. I have Experienced it. But since XP was launched the Reliablity was Improved and with XP Sp2 its more stable XP. And Vista is more Stable then XP. Since its build on windows 2003 server code. And my system has been crashfree since XP sp2. If you have enough memory like 1Gb ram extra memory helps. Also Theres a thing called maintanaice. If you take care of computer. The system will be be fine. Like check for file system errors and bad sectors every month for errors on hard drive. And keep the Firewall on. The Blaster was gotton into pc throught a Port. If people kept the firewall on. They would not gotton a Blaster Virus. Finally i would not say any OS is Perfect even Mac or Linux. Because Humans are not Perfect in the first place either. And you expect the OS to be Perfect LOL.

Also Mac OS is good to. I wont say Mac Os is anyway better then windows. Because i have used Macs in schools and crashed the macs in 10 mins. The person who says virus-free macs. Are you kidding me. I can see that macs have less viruses but you cant say they have Zero Viruses. Then why Companies makes anti-virus Software for Macs. They should not make no anti-virus programs for macs. If they was Virus Free. Also i only had 1 virus since 1999 in Pc. I never got a virus more then 1 ok.


Now why i dont like Macs: I just dont like the desktop interface of Macs. And you cant upgrade parts in imac. Now u can in MacPro which is $2500 to buy to expensive. And if you think macs OS cost $129. In the Long run that Os has costed you over $129. Like for example you already spend $2500 that included the Os Price i guess. As Pcs you can have crashProof Pc under $1500. If you know how run a Pc Properly. Also not a lot of software available for Macs. Maybe in the Future there might be ok.

Also why apple is full of Lies. There creating false ads. Like this mac actor says i can make movies and the pc person said i can do Word, Piechart. Thats just wrong. You can do anything on Pc like music editing, Listen to music edit videos you name it and design web sites using Micromedia 7 or 8 or any 3rd party software. So finally its a user preference whether they like Macs or PC. Both are good in there own unique ways. Bye take care

He says "It runs on the same hardware". Is he assuming he will be using Leapord on his existing hardware?

"Why doesn't anyone know the difference between schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder a.k.a. dissociative identity disorder", asks Brian and then proceeds to conduct a review of both mental disorders.

You rendered your own question moot when you proceeded to give us a lecture in psych 101.

Congratulations to all Vista users. Don't think that your long awaited coming in yer panties is going to convince me to switch to Microsoft.

Jatt,

There is anti-software being developed for macs because their are customers who purchase them as a preemptive meausure, just in case there ever is a virus. There are also some who falsely beleive that there are viruses for macs and purchase these products.

to answer your question Jatt

Then why Companies makes anti-virus Software for Macs. They should not make no anti-virus programs for macs. If they was Virus Free. Also i only had 1 virus since 1999 in Pc. I never got a virus more then 1 ok.

antivirus on the Mac is for protecting PC's on the network from Windows only viruses.
We dont want to onsend a virus to a Windows system and thats it
Glad you have had no viruses thats because you have all the right protection in place
Unfortunately the average user doesn't or gets sucked into buy antivirus software like Nortons that suck big time. You can successfully protect a Windows PC from attacks for free.
But not totally. you have to be a wise user and avoid certain things.. forinstance Internet explorer that even the US defence dept. has warned its staff to not use.

Here is what I know about Chris Pirillo:

-He is a very smart, high energy fellow.
-He is very plugged into the industry. Very plugged in.
-He is OS neutral, but a little more neutral toward PCs than Macs (see the kind of computers that currently occupy positions in his home).

So, if Pirillo is saying "Market Share Doubling", I, for one, am listening.

If Leopard releases on X86 Intel. I will test it out. As I am not saying the Mac Os Sucks. But its not Perfect either ok. I wonder if Microsoft is not Saying Anything over running Windows XP in BootCamp in Mac. Then Why is Steve Job is rejecting Os X Tiger installs on X86 hardware. All he wants is $2500 then you can try the Mac OS. Its not like he will loose profit. If he allowed the Os X Tiger on P4 3GHZ cpus. Even Leapard i heard he will put a chip that the os wont be able install on all Standard x86 hardware.

OS X does not crash unless there is something seriously wrong. OS 9 crashed continually if you messed with it at all, but OS X is a different beast altogether. Viruses for OS X? Show them to me.... I'm sure there will be some eventually, but Jatt you have no clue what you are talking about (Word Macro Viruses do not count). I maintain Macs in schools (a lab of about 40 emacs running 10.39) and I can count on one hand the number of times they have crashed in the last couple of years (and they are used all day long). An application might crash, but not the OS. Try that with Windows.

Jatt,

Its less Memory Hog in Rc2:
That almost sounds like a positive comment.
It has been running for few days without no restarts at all.:
Low standards are better than no standards!
Also Theres a thing called maintanaice.:
Most of which could and should be automated.
Finally i would not say any OS is Perfect even Mac or Linux.
High standards are better than low standards.
The person who says virus-free macs. Are you kidding me.
No.
Then why Companies makes anti-virus Software for Macs.
For skeptical PC converts such as yourself.
I just dont like the desktop interface of Macs.
Sorry.
you cant upgrade parts in imac.
True, but the advantages of hardware upgrades are largely offset by the problems of hardware incompatibilities.
In the Long run that Os has costed you over $129.
The logic escapes me. I spent a bit less than that to upgrade the system on an old laptop - pure pleasure and the machine ran faster!
Also why apple is full of Lies.
Hmm. . . Touchy! I actually have a PC and a Mac. PCs are like an unkept promise. They have lots of potential and power that gets underutilised due to a buggy and inconsistent interface.

Enjoy your choice.

MW "fear". Need I say more?

My formatting above got lost.

Jatt,

Its less Memory Hog in Rc2:
* That almost sounds like a positive comment.

It has been running for few days without no restarts at all.:
* Low standards are better than no standards!

Also Theres a thing called maintanaice.:
* Most of which could and should be automated.

Finally i would not say any OS is Perfect even Mac or Linux.
* High standards are better than low standards.

The person who says virus-free macs. Are you kidding me.
* No.

Then why Companies makes anti-virus Software for Macs.
* For skeptical PC converts such as yourself.

I just dont like the desktop interface of Macs.
* Sorry.

you cant upgrade parts in imac.
* True, but the advantages of hardware upgrades are largely offset by the problems of hardware incompatibilities.

In the Long run that Os has costed you over $129.
* The logic escapes me. I spent a bit less than that to upgrade the system on an old laptop - pure pleasure and the machine ran faster!

Also why apple is full of Lies.
* Hmm. . . Touchy! I actually have a PC and a Mac.

PCs are like an unkept promise. They have lots of potential and power that gets underutilised due to a buggy and inconsistent interface.

Enjoy your choice.

You upgrade parts in an iMac
WHAT!
are you nuts.. of course you can
The ram.. non apple no problems
the hard drive.. any SATA drive
The CPU imac with Yonah accepets different Yonah chips and newer Merom chips
Sure u cant change the motherboard or videocard.. yet..
Macpro.. the same but you can change video cards as well
but like most Macs their are companies
even on the older units that do hardware upgrades even on older emacs and G3's to G4's
Towers you can upgarde most parts including the video cards

Message to Jeff:

I have tried as your saying long time ago. The applications might crash but it didnt take OS to blue screens in XP. You just click End task under task manager in XP. If the application stops responding. And with 95, 98, Me i wont argue with you. Since those Oses versions sucked. But with XP Sp2 it has Improved. And People who have Blue Screens dont have a clue how to use Pcs. They need to take classes. Mostly Blue Screens are caused by drivers that might be outdated or not compatible ok. And i only experienced one blue screen in XP because i was using 16Mb video card. Then i upgraded the video card. Then after that i never experienced blue screens of Death ok. And vista is more Stable in Rc2 and overall design then XP ok. Although i had crashfree windows Vp with Sp2. I still dont get why people wine. The Mac OS and Xp are just Operating Systems. You just need to know how to care for it lke check for file system errors or bad sectors on check disk in windows. Bad sectors can cause the Os to slow down and check for Spyware with Ad-Aware or Spybot and for anti-virus use Avast or Avg. Thats all. Also I never went to a store for them to Repair my Pc. Because i know how to use PCS.
New Users dont know what spyware is or virus. So they take to store for them to remove spyware or virus from there Pcs. All well i cant believe these luttle things people take there Pc to store just to remove Spyware or Virus LOL.

And the Cnet video is wrong. The Compatibility Wizard is found in Rc2 i tested it. Its found in Help and Support. The guy was searching in Start Menu. He didnt thought to try typing in Help and Support. So I dont know why cnet is saying that microsoft dropped the Compatibility Wizard in Rc2 or missing ok. Maybe they dont know what the hec they are talking about ok. All the Stuff Cnet says are not Correct always. Bye take care.

With XP Sp2 the OS was Stable to without no restarts for Months i heard. But i have tried it for 14 days uptime it was great without no slowdowns. Then i restarts myself just for fun. And Vista is Build on server 2003 code. So i expect in months uptime. And the Bad Oses was 95,98 and Me. Windows 98 had to be restarted in 4 days. Anotherwise Crash for No Reason at all. And Windows Me was worse then 98. I only tried Windows Me for 1 day and it showed Illegal Operation Error with blue screen. Never again i tried Windows Me to this day. And never will either. Anyways who cares about old Oses. Now vista is coming. I just like the Aero. Its cool looking ok.

Shaneblyth,

You are correct. Some parts are simply more difficult to exchange than with a standard PC box.

Jatt,

Please accept my apologies. I was being cheeky, but you are being very genuine. I enjoyed building my PC very much. I did, however, get very annoyed by the maintenance required to keep '98 and later XP running optimally. I prefer using my Macs. You are correct that Macs are not perfect. Safari will slow do0wn at times, some web are incompatible and networking with PCs can be problematic.

(By the way, I realise that it is POSSIBLE to network flawlessly with PCs, but in practice there can be problems. Often it is simply that the network was set up by PC administrators who do not know or care about Macs, but that is a problem that I do encounter as a Mac user.)

"now vista is coming. I just like the Aero. Its cool looking ok.."
Yeah stolen from OSX which you said you dont like

so you say XP you just close the app thats crashed..
I have built and sold and repaired PC's for years
the reason I switched to PSX is because it bought the system down occasionally sure run task manager and end the task.. start the task again and 99% of the time it would creash again

This is my prefeesion so I know what I am talking about

I bought a Mac in the end cause I was sick of all the hassles and wanted a cruisy life espeically with seting up systems to do audio recording.. XP was too unstable there are too many pieces of hardware and driver combos that to me is the killer for XP..
You dont mention all the software incompatibilities with Vista.. it is well noted .. Vista will be like XP and early adopters are going to have alot of issues with waiting for software updates for their apps.. also so it is so rediculasly priced ! what a rip off. So are you enjoying all those pane in the butt popups asking if u want to let the system continue. I was very disapointed in Vista RC2.. and would never recommend any of my PC clients upgrading .. maybe in a year.. well see

Cpt. Obvious!

Why are you always so abusive?

It reveals a character weakness.

It is STILL true that there are more software titles out there for Windows than Mac.

I was at a Compusa today I noticed that they have 2 aisles of shelf space dedicated to just spyware removal, antivirus and registry fixing software.

So there!

"...t is STILL true that there are more software titles out there for Windows than Mac.

I was at a Compusa today I noticed that they have 2 aisles of shelf space dedicated to just spyware removal, antivirus and registry fixing software.

So there!..."

Doh LOL .. Good one never thought of that but yeah sadly it is definitly true for windows systems

Not wanting to upgrade to Vista, folks won't only look at Macs, there are other optons like, sticking with winXP, trying linux or pirating Vista. But of all those who don't want Vista, Macs I'm sure will be considered, which is not bad considering many never consider anything else but Windows.

for fuck sake!

Why do MDN always have to add "the mac is the only machine the dual boots windows and os x....". Yes MDN we all get the message seeing as you can't resist adding the same comment to every fucking news story. Give it up you sad bastards! We get the point! No need to constantly repeat yourself!

@monkey: I tend to agree with you on this, but not in your monkey-language

monkey: MDN does get new visitors daily. Hence the repetition.
At times, it's people clueless about the Mac surfing in from Google News or other linked sources. Some of those surfers turn into chattering, frightened troll vermin on these threads. Some into possible Mac buyers.

It's only repetitive to return visitors not new ones.

Got a better idea?

There is more PC software in areas that Apple doesn't traditionally specialise in and has no plans to move into which is probably what the article is suggesting. There are certain PC only engineering/archiCAD programes as well as PC specific software for business and enterprise which keeps a lot of people and corporations on the Windows platform - as opposed to just using email and a web browser. The are niche market applications for dentists, and business software apps that are PC only although I would imagine that should these be ported over to OSX that there would be a market for them.

@ Jatt
Which Mac OS were you running when you got a virus? I assume that it was OS9 or earlier??

"Why do MDN always have to add "the mac is the only machine the dual boots windows and os x....". Yes MDN we all get the message seeing as you can't resist adding the same comment to every fucking news story. Give it up you sad bastards! We get the point! No need to constantly repeat yourself!"

MDN likes to continually point out that by running Windows Apple has managed to work around limitations with the Mac, and that according to them one of the greatest features of the new Intel Macs is that they run Windows, because any Mac vs Windows argument on software availability/features can be rebutted by MDN's assertion which boils down to "Look the Mac's now a Windows PC that also runs OS X"