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Mar 05, 08 - 01:23 pm Comment from: Wandering joe

Don't screw around with the German police. They're pretty tough! (don't screw with Apple either for that matter!)

At last somebody has to put an end to those f*cking Chinese pirates.

Maybe this is the thin edge of the wedge: China's state owned free enterprise telephone companies won't let Apple and iphone into China unless and until its own iPhone manufacturers dominate the market already. Like Meizu?

Mar 05, 08 - 01:39 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Do I see a camera on both sides? Yes, I believe I do.

Take note, Steve.

Mar 05, 08 - 01:41 pm Comment from: GmanMac

@ Chrissy

All cellphone cameras are crud.

There's just no way to get decent optics in them let alone a decent chip.

You want to take pictures--get a real camera.

Mar 05, 08 - 01:42 pm Comment from: Ampar

It should go nicely with a Rollex watch and a Louie Vuitton handbag.

Good luck to the suckers that buy this cheap wannabe and need Windows Mobile tech support.

There are still rip-offs of the Bondi Blue iMac on sale in China. And five dollar copies of Vista sealed in bags with stolen Disney logos.

He don't know me very well, do he?

I heard the iPhone camera is surprisingly decent all things considered. But I suspect Chrissy's real point is that having optics on both sides would be really useful for videochatting.

Mar 05, 08 - 01:51 pm Comment from: Predrag

Not much of an end to the Chinese pirates, though.

Last weekend, I was in Chinatown (NYC). Plenty of fake 2nd gen Nanos, Touches and even iPhones in quite a few brick-and-mortar stores. These are no fly-by-night places either; most of them have existed (under same ownership/management) for at least 17 years (I've seen their children grow...!). They sell them alongside other name brands (Creative, Samsung, Sansa), shrink-wrapped, with full warranty. These are the usual 'General merchandise' stores that sell all sorts of cheap stuff for your home: from electronics (CD players, cordless phones, boomboxes), to housewares (coffee and rice makers, food processors) to various car accessories, batteries, chargers, blank tapes / CDs, porn (VHS/DVD), audio gear (home and car), jewelry, etc... It is obviously all legal, since nobody has challenged it once in (at least) 17 years (since I came to NYC). And Chinatown is not the only place in the city with fake iPods either; some of those typical tourist-type consumer electronic stores in Midtown Manhattan (the ones with shop windows packed with digital cameras, camcorders, laptops, binoculars, audio players, etc) also have these cheap knock-offs, right alongside the real ones. I'm sure though, that they are selling the real ones without authorisation from Apple, i.e. they're just buying them directly in bulk from someone like MacMall, where they can get them a bit cheaper, then re-selling them to tourists for more than the normal US retail (which is still cheaper than in the rest of the world).

What I wonder is why is Apple (or NYC DA) letting this slide under the radar?

Mar 05, 08 - 01:54 pm Comment from: Cubert

GmanMac,
I think C1's comments refer to the possibility of running full scale iChat video conferencing via the iPhone. It's not possible right now with the ARM processor, but should be in a generation or two of the iPhone.

The Chinese will be a superpower someday and will eat our breakfast, lunch and supper.

Get ready for it!

Mar 05, 08 - 02:01 pm Comment from: Ampar

"It is obviously all legal, since nobody has challenged it once . . ."

Not getting caught or prosecuted is not a measure of legality (in the U.S.). Most minor credit card thefts are not chased down because of the overwhelming cost of investigation and prosecution. Identity theft is profitable with very little risk of prosecution. Half of all murders in the U.S. go unsolved each year which is up from 30% from a few years ago.

Mar 05, 08 - 02:06 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

What a great looking phone! The major improvement—not that it was that hard—is the replacement of the useless toy OS Apple uses on the I-Phone with Microsoft's wonderful Windows Mobile. I bet this doesn't cost an arm and a leg either. Buh-bye Apple.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Mar 05, 08 - 02:07 pm Comment from: Bluefin

I made a mistake once and talked digital cameras.

That girl KNOWS cameras.
That girl KNOWS photography....

kinda funny, taking you to task... on Cameras...

Mar 05, 08 - 02:08 pm Comment from: DLMeyer

GmanMac seems to have missed the point. Cubert didn't. We all know that the "cameras" in cell phones are "somewhat lacking" - in several respects. Sort of like the point-and-shoot cameras from the '50s and '60s. You'd get a recognizable picture, just don't go enlarging it too much or anything. The lenses were - and are, again - pretty limited - no focus, no zoom, no choices at all. But ... it's a PHONE, fer Christ's sake!
Joining in a video-conference from on the road is a major thing for the Enterprise crowd. Today they mostly need to use their laptops, if it matters to them. And it should. It really should. And Apple should be making this point to them ... with the MBA or MBP taking the lead.
Dave

Mar 05, 08 - 02:09 pm Comment from: the other steve jobs

this is crap.

you don't prosecute someone IN CASE they MAY break a law... they haven't sold any of these yet, and they may not. You can't have the gestapo running around shutting down things that must be tried anyhow....

as it turns out, the courts have often sided with those that make knock offs... look at windows... they let it go despite being a totally awful ripoff.

I think this is crap. That its "for Apple" doesn't make it not crap.

of course, this is Europe... they don't actually have freedom of speech, so we should be used to this.

Mar 05, 08 - 02:13 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ GmanMac

No shit - I have several real cameras, actually. See Sheep Register's post for the point.

Mar 05, 08 - 02:16 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

...and now that's I've refreshed the page, it looks like others picked up on that as well. Okay then...

Mar 05, 08 - 02:21 pm Comment from: Ampar

"I bet this doesn't cost an arm and a leg either."

No, but they will take dead cats, raccoons, owls, doves, snakes, bear or tiger's paw, dried deer penis and decomposed monkey skeletons. You get a free carrying case for a duck's foot or squid jerky. While they last.

My wife is Chinese we spend allot of time in the Asian Malls wherever we go, it is the same thing loads of knock offs. They exist because of lack of political will, in North America and I will presume other places people congregate with others of the same race, there for if you want to get elected in those areas that are predominantly Chinese you don't rock the boat. The mall we go to was even outed this year by a local radio station they announce several times that all the local malls were closed for a holiday except the local asian mall so any one looking for knock offs could get them, so the sale of these items is well known to everyone but the police don't want to be labeled racist or have the locals say they are doing racial profiling so they leave them alone to continue the same illegal activities they would do in there home countries. This breaks down to we want to live in your country and have all the benefits you provide but we don't want your taxes or to pay full price for your products, just let us be little China (China Town) little Italy or little whatever, but don't ask us to be like you or follow your rules.

Mar 05, 08 - 02:23 pm Comment from: Coule

@Zune Tang®:

Indeed this imitation looks like shit!
You must be blind NOT to remark this.

And poor Windowscrap does not support multitouch yet.
This is the poor man's iPhone!

Your impotence, my fun!

It's not just Chinese or American problem. Finnish company selling "100% original products"... ...I always thougt that design was part of the product

http://www.e-ville.hk/page/?name=Main

Mar 05, 08 - 02:34 pm Comment from: shen

""It is obviously all legal, since nobody has challenged it once . . ."

Not getting caught or prosecuted is not a measure of legality"

you know, as a philosopher who does more than a bit of dabbling in ethics, i don't know if i am more disturbed that someone suggested it is legal (forget ethical considerations) until challenged, or that we have to distinguish between legality, and ethics....

"you don't prosecute someone IN CASE they MAY break a law... they haven't sold any of these yet"

so...... copyright is only an issue if it is sold? if i make copies of OSX and give it away that is not a problem?

...so what is the big deal about file sharing, are they selling those songs?

and in Europe (you claim) they don't have free speech? it always amazes me that people in american chant their "home of the free" crap at people. you would be amazed how many countries in the world have equal or even greater freedoms than the united states of extreme corporate control have. how many countries have "patriot" acts? how many allow the government to tap your phone calls?

america is a lot less "free" than you think. and many other developed countries are a lot more free than you think. try not to let your prejudice run away with you.

Mar 05, 08 - 02:38 pm Comment from: El Guapo

@Ampar

dried deer penis? squid jerky?

Folks, you can't make this kind of crap up! Only on MDN!

'bout lost my lunch on that one. Thanks Ampar!

Mar 05, 08 - 02:39 pm Comment from: Ampar

To my understanding:

Intent to break the law (criminal statute) if provable is prosecutable.

Trade dress, patent and copyright infringement are more difficult to prove and prosecute based on intent.

And IANAL.

Mar 05, 08 - 02:42 pm Comment from: Ampar

To El Guapo:

These are actual Chinese delicacies. But for some reason on don't see them on American-Chinese menus next to General Tso's chicken.

And squid jerky doesn't sound bad. Dried calamari?

Mar 05, 08 - 02:46 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Don't forget Tiger penis soup! Good for super-lucky number-one impotence cure! Endangered species are GREAT with potstickers & chow mein!

Mar 05, 08 - 02:48 pm Comment from: Ampar

Mmmmmm, panda.

Mar 05, 08 - 02:49 pm Comment from: Jim - TIV

I'm absolutely cracking up at Gman's post.

Mar 05, 08 - 03:01 pm Comment from: Ampar

How to videoconference with an iPhone:

Mount the iPhone to a powered mini-turntable and let it spin. You'll get both sides working sharing fractions of a second, an image stabilizer from the gyroscopic action and a nice breeze. Oh yeah, and something in software.

Simple.

Mar 05, 08 - 03:14 pm Comment from: shen

or, a mirror....

Mar 05, 08 - 03:37 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Above I wrote...

"and now that's I've refreshed..."

I'm hoping it catches on. You know, like "teh". That was mine, too.

+1 Reclaimer.
Except China IS already a superpower.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:18 pm Comment from: nekogami13

It was shut down due to MP3 licensing issues-nothing to due with ripping off the iPhone.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:19 pm Comment from: Ampar

"or, a mirror...."


Or a connected network of billions of angled mirrors and skip the iPhone. Open wide and say ah.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:39 pm Comment from: qka

Update from the linked article:

Update: Meizu now says the dispute is known to have centered around "licenses" for one of its music players, and not the MiniOne. The company has reoccupied its booth and includes the MiniOne at the display, but not the offending device. The company has not mentioned which product is affected or whether the licenses related to copyright issues, although both its M3 and M6 players bear similarities to the first-generation iPod nano and fifth-generation iPod with video.

So maybe it wasn't Apple's instigation?

Mar 05, 08 - 04:43 pm Comment from: Anonymous©

I worry less about the lens and more about the chipsize. It's just like the Mhz war, Megapixels are nothing if the chip size doesn't increase as well.

Is the Nokia's N95 5mp camera two and a half times better than the iPhone's 2mp camera? No, not at all. Cramming more pixels into a tiny chip also increases the noise, ruining whatever increased resolution one would expect.

Cellphone cameras are limited by so many factors, that it's doubtful that they'll ever approach the quality of the cheapest digital camera. They can have lots of features, like digital zoom, or flash, but features don't improve image quality. In fact, I'd wager no cellphone flash is usable beyond 5 feet. It's featuritis at its worst.

The iPhone camera is surprisingly good, if they'd only correct the white balance, which is too cyan. I think for the size chips they put in these cellphone cameras, the sweetspot in megapixels is really only 2MP, as 6microns has been proven to be the optimal size per pixel.

Mar 05, 08 - 04:44 pm Comment from: Ampar

They're still rip-offs.

Mar 05, 08 - 05:33 pm Comment from: Darkness

@qka...

It wasn't at Apple's instigation. Apparently it was an Italian company complaining about an unlicensed MP3 codec.

Hey there, 'the other steve jobs' up at the top there:
"of course, this is Europe... they don't actually have freedom of speech, so we should be used to this."

Actually, with respect, in many ways Europeans may have more free speech than you.

You're not free to say what you really think thanks to the pc police (except in anonymous forums like this, which is where you do all your venting).
You're not free from being sued by anyone for any frivolous reason without recourse.
You're not free to mention religion in the workplace (or your school).
You're not free to tell people how you actually feel, they just want to hear, "Oh I'm fine, how are you?" (You've got some seriously repressed, "I'm ok you're ok" Disneyworld thing going here - you don't want to hear how they feel either.)
You're not free to touch a female coworker for fear of 'sexual harassment'.
You're not free to discipline you own children.
You're not free to get sick if you don't have insurance. You'll bleat about healthcare costs but if the doctor so much as looks at you wrong you'll sue the bastard. And you scream "socialism" when anyone mentions national healthcare.

Excuse me, but isn't the EU the folks who have fined M$ millions upon millions while the US 'justice system' has let them rape and pillage the American people without a peep? Ironic in such a lawsuit-happy country.

Now don't think this is all too harsh, no country is perfect, but as anyone who has lived in both places can tell you, you guys may think you have the only free country in the world, but Aussies laugh at nonsense like that and Europeans just shake their heads. They know better.

Mar 05, 08 - 06:59 pm Comment from: shen

"You're not free to mention religion in the workplace (or your school)."

actually, as long as it is a right wing christian religion, you can.

...other religions = teh bad.

Mar 05, 08 - 09:35 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

"You're not free to mention religion in the workplace (or your school)."

Stop talking about it in church too, and we might get somewhere.

Actually, my phone took some surprisingly good pics while in Italy with my family last Summer. There were a couple of occasions where I didn't have my regular camera with me and so took some shots and a bit of video with the phone. They came out really well for the most part. Certainly would not use it for everything but it has done pretty well by me up to now.

Mar 05, 08 - 10:59 pm Comment from: GizmoDan

I hope the booth was expensive.

Mar 05, 08 - 11:22 pm Comment from: MacLovin

@ ZuneTang u forgot the "take that, Mac Dorks" part at the end...

your stupidity, my laughter

Mar 06, 08 - 02:21 am Comment from: echo416

Latest Update from Electronista: "Meizu now says the dispute is known to have centred around "licenses" for one of its music players, and not the MiniOne. The company has reoccupied its booth and includes the MiniOne at the display, but not the offending device. The company has not mentioned which product is affected or whether the licenses related to copyright issues, although both its M3 and M6 players bear similarities to the first-generation iPod nano and fifth-generation iPod with video."

Clearly the story was inaccurate and as usual apple fans jump all over stories like this. Yes I have a substantial investment in apple gear at my home so I can speak my mind.