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Mar 04, 08 - 09:38 am Comment from: Jimbo von Winskinheimer

Gore was on the investigative committee that looked into the backdated options. His committee's findings were on par with those of the SEC. So why is he under fire? We know why he's under fire in this forum, but that has nothing to do with his performance on the AAPL board.

Please, if you're going to post about this, try posting something intelligent rather than an obvious partisan shot.

Mar 04, 08 - 09:43 am Comment from: Gupta Feldstein from Outsourcistan

Oh please, Glass and Lewis must be some right wing nuts who hate Gore, and are disguising their illegitimate attack on him because they don't want to appear to be such idiots.

Anyone know what the shareholder proposals are?

Mar 04, 08 - 09:46 am Comment from: shen

so we vote against people who were asked by the company to look into possible misdeeds, and did so, and found the same thing an outside investigation found?

those are the kind of people you WANT. morons....

Mar 04, 08 - 09:48 am Comment from: silverhawk

I never received a proxy card although a shareholder well before 15 JAN 2008. I feel betrayed! The horror!!

Sounds like a good idea to me. Everyone with a brain knows that Al Gore is a total fraud anyway. He's just stealing money for doing absolutely nothing. A lot like he does with everything else he has going on for that matter. An inconvenient truth indeed.

Mar 04, 08 - 09:56 am Comment from: Ampar

To iqbal:

"To Holders of Common Stock of Apple Inc.:
Notice is hereby given that the Annual Meeting of Shareholders of Apple Inc., a California corporation (the
“Company”), will be held on Tuesday, March 4, 2008 at 10:00 a.m. local time, at the Company’s principal
executive offices located at 1 Infinite Loop, Building 4, Cupertino, California 95014, for the following purposes,
as more fully described in the accompanying Proxy Statement:
1. To elect the Company’s Board of Directors.
2. To ratify the appointment of KPMG LLP as the Company’s independent registered public accounting
firm for fiscal year 2008.
3. To consider two shareholder proposals, if properly presented at the meeting.
4. To transact such other business as may properly come before the meeting and any postponement(s) or
adjournment(s) thereof.
All shareholders are cordially invited to attend the meeting in person. However, to ensure that each
shareholder’s vote is counted at the meeting, shareholders are requested to mark, sign, date and return the
enclosed proxy card as promptly as possible in the envelope provided or to submit the proxy via the Internet or
by telephone. Shareholders attending the meeting may vote in person even if they have previously returned proxy
cards.
Only shareholders of record as of the close of business on January 15, 2008 are entitled to receive notice of,
to attend and to vote at the meeting."

(link and pdf alert)

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/10/107357/AAPL_Proxy_2008.pdf

Mar 04, 08 - 09:57 am Comment from: Ampar

P.S. I should have mentioned that the PDF link has the full details.

Looks to me like they are trying to get rid of the members that didn't find in their favor during the backdating investigation.

That's the way it is these days - if you don't like the message, change messengers until you get the answer you want.

Speaking as a shareholder, I invite Glass, Lewis and company to shove their advice back where it came from.

-jcr

We know why he's under fire in this forum

Is he running against Obama ? Is that what the wall to wall ads here are about ?

Gore is going to start looking very stupid, very soon over the global warming thing. Reports have been coming out about how the U.S. has had more snow cover than any year since 1966... the arctic ice has more than recovered... the founder of the Weather Channel wants to sue Gore for all the warming misinformation... etc.
The global cooling theory is coming back because of the Sun's unexpected inactivity.

If Gore starts looking really stupid, it will reflect on Apple.

Mar 04, 08 - 10:15 am Comment from: twilightmoon

I'm not a fan of Al Gore's politics, but this seems to be an extension of the pointless backdating witch hunt that led to nowhere before, and cost Apple valuable time and resources which could have been used to produce more value for investors in the stock.

I think Hard Nard hit the nail on the head with the "don't like message, change messenger" scheme.

Glass Lewis & Co., please spare us with the political piece. Gore is rock solid as a board member and brings a lot to the table. The guy's a visionary, played a large role in the development of the internet, and now plays a big part in the public's reawakening to environmental issues. Being a responsible senator, I'd say he understands a thing or two about people, too. Again, spare us the politics, this is the kind of guy I'd want on my board.

Mar 04, 08 - 10:20 am Comment from: twilightmoon

"If Gore starts looking really stupid, it will reflect on Apple."

Gore wasn't invited to Apple's board of directors for his views on Global Warming. I doubt the outcome of global warming trends and politics will have any impact on his position there.

While I don't like his politics I would not claim that Gore is stupid. Global Warming in my view is an agenda which is driven more by politics and money than science or concern for the environment, but again this isn't related to Gore's position on the board. This is strictly about punishing anyone involved in the back dating investigation. This witch hunt needs to be put to rest.

Mar 04, 08 - 10:22 am Comment from: twilightmoon

"Again, spare us the politics"

To be fair, inviting a well known partisan politician to serve on your board of directors loses you any right to say "spare us the politics."

I don't think this has anything to do with Gore's politics but Apple couldn't really complain about it even if it did.

I vote for everybody EXCEPT Al Gore every time.

This is Liberty! Hourray and praises to the god $!

The only one you should withhold is Bill Campbell. Why is this bozo on the board when his flagship product, Quickbooks, continues to languish on the Mac platform? They only grudgingly took Quickbooks to OS X after years of user pleas, and then it was only a simple port. And with QB 2008 for Windows out, where is QB 2008 for Mac? No dice. And if you want to use QB with Leopard, you must buy 2007....and when 2008 comes out you will pay FULL PRICE AGAIN to get a release that still will not have all the features that the Windows version does.

Punish this man for his disrespect/disregard/disdain of Mac users everywhere.

Give me a break. I don't have a problem with Al Gore on the board of directors. I *DO* have a problem with Bill Campbell of Intuit. Can you think of a company that makes crappier software for the Macintosh than they do?

Mar 04, 08 - 10:40 am Comment from: Spark

As far as I know, the SEC has closed the books on the options backdating investigation. If that is true, Glass Lewis should drop this as reason to remove board members. They are obviously representing big pension fund shareholders that don't like the way Apple's board handles compensation, and are attempting to change the mix on the board. Hey, Apple is a public company, and shareholders have a right to influence the selection of the board. It looks to me like they want a board the is less a 'rubber stamp' to Steve Jobs wishes. Based on his performance, however, a rubber stamp board is what serves Apple best as long as Jobs is at the helm.

Mar 04, 08 - 10:46 am Comment from: ElderNorm

@rdbvideo,
"Gore is going to start looking very stupid, very soon over the global warming thing. Reports have been coming out about how the U.S. has had more snow cover than any year since 1966... the arctic ice has more than recovered... the founder of the Weather Channel wants to sue Gore for all the warming misinformation... etc.
The global cooling theory is coming back because of the Sun's unexpected inactivity.

If Gore starts looking really stupid, it will reflect on Apple."


RIGHT. Global warming is an instant thing. Like a light bulb. Click its on and warming, click its cold. Like the Queen Mary 2, it takes time to get going and time to stop. Like two miles when you hit the emergency brakes.

So, think global warming is a trend not the weather today. :-(

Well, when we have eminent scientists like rdbvideo and twilight moon keeping the world safe and "warm", who needs Gore? Sheesh, no wonder blank slate Barack "Fainta" Obama is attracting such huge crowds!

Mar 04, 08 - 10:48 am Comment from: Bluefin

@TwilightMoon

Global Warming is NOT about politics.
Some 95 plus % of scientists agree that humans are PROFOUNDLY interfering with our environment. Right now, the debate within the scientific community is when do approach the point where we are no longer able to reverse the effects. It's no longer a question of if or how.

Even the current administration, which has replaced many scientists in senior admin positions within govt scientific agencies with political appointees is finally admitting that there may be an issue.

The number of research studies and papers and quality of citations on the subject is overwhelming.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/
http://www.nrdc.org/globalWarming/fgwscience.asp
http://www.pewclimate.org/global-warming-basics

Mar 04, 08 - 10:50 am Comment from: Macromancer

"Sounds like a good idea to me. Everyone with a brain knows that Al Gore is a total fraud anyway. He's just stealing money for doing absolutely nothing. A lot like he does with everything else he has going on for that matter. An inconvenient truth indeed."


Proof please. Include facts if you have any.
I'm certainly willing to change my opinion if you can prove it.
Ready. Set. GO!

Mar 04, 08 - 10:50 am Comment from: twilightmoon

"They are obviously representing big pension fund shareholders that don't like the way Apple's board handles compensation"

How much value have these pension funds returned to their investors in the past 8 years? I'm willing to go out on a limb and guess that it's less than Apple's stock has risen in the same period.

"Based on his performance, however, a rubber stamp board is what serves Apple best as long as Jobs is at the helm."

Jobs has transformed a company in a way that no other CEO in American history can claim. Petty bickering over small backdating options details really smacks me as someone who obsesses over trees completely oblivious to the fact that there's a huge forrest around them.

Such people are usually the first to end up in a ditch or eaten by a grizzly bear.

Mar 04, 08 - 10:51 am Comment from: Macromancer

"To be fair, inviting a well known partisan politician to serve on your board of directors loses you any right to say "spare us the politics.""

Because certainly there are NO extreme right wing Republicans on any board of any company anywhere else.

Mar 04, 08 - 10:58 am Comment from: twilightmoon

"Global Warming is NOT about politics.
Some 95 plus % of scientists agree that humans are PROFOUNDLY interfering with our environment. Right now, the debate within the scientific community is when do approach the point where we are no longer able to reverse the effects. It's no longer a question of if or how."

Yes, I'm very sorry to tell you but it's entirely run by politics and money. Remember the hemming and hawing over Kyoto Treaty? If that treaty was meant to save us from Global Warming, then why did it exempt China and India who make up 1/3 of the worlds total population and who are growing faster economically than any other country, especially in areas of industry?

The idea that man is "profoundly" interfering with the global environment when a simple slight change in solar activity dramatically changes the temperature of the planet sending us into one of the coldest climate trends in over 50 years.. laughable.

Please spare me your propaganda.

"The number of research studies and papers and quality of citations on the subject is overwhelming."

You dangle enough money in front of people you can come up with research on anything. This whole issue has long since left the realm of science there's far too much money being thrown around on both sides of this issue to trust either side.

Maybe when you get a little older you'll learn to be a little more skeptical of the motivations of people who are given large sums of money to come up with "research."

Mar 04, 08 - 11:01 am Comment from: twilightmoon

"Because certainly there are NO extreme right wing Republicans on any board of any company anywhere else."

If those republicans were high profile politicians, then I'd be just as skeptical of them as Al Gore. This isn't about Al Gore being a Democrat per se.

But if you just mean that anyone who is either Republican or Democrat but not a politician is ineligible simple due to their political registration that's a bit extreme, don't you think?

@rdbvideo:

No ...

I could say something about actual fact-checking, and whether Gore or rdbvideo seem to be doing said, but I think I'll refrain.

@twilightmoon

These assertions by denialists are often seen but never even remotely proven. As I suspect you know. You can wave your arms all you like, but this does not make your pet argument correct. I dare you to find a money-trail to the majority of the worlds climate scientists, these wealthy, morally corrupt scientists, who work 80-hour weeks just to be fabulously rich and get it on with blonde chicks. There are money-trails in this question alright, but they point in an entirely different direction.

MDN word, more appropriate than ever: evidence, as in where's yours?

Mar 04, 08 - 11:21 am Comment from: MCCFR

A couple of nights ago, there was an article on 60 Minutes where one of the "vox pop" interviewees in Ohio expressed the opinion that he still had some doubts about Barack Obama because there were questions about his Muslim faith and the allegation that he didn't know the words to the national anthem.

In a country with four broadcasting networks, four or more news networks, a couple of thousand radio stations and God only know how many newspapers and periodicals, that level of ignorance is truly breathtaking as is the idea that people only associate 'global warming' with the weather outside of their front door.

Global warming is a global cause, with different types of climate change (hotter, cooler, drier, wetter, etc.) happening to varying degrees depending on how the sea currents and air currents change and interact for your bit of the globe; in my part of the world, that seems to mean blossom on the trees in mid-February when – for the whole of my life – it has only ever been in evidence in late-March and April.

And when we talk of politicians stealing money as a result of being involved in public companies, let's also remember the public companies stealing and misappropriating public funds as a result of having a former CEO as a Vice-President. Of course, that's probably 'trickle-down economics' in action.

What I don't get is why Bill Campbell gets re-elected to the board every year. Intuit's products on the Mac are an embarrassment. Intuit only holds on because there's no credible competition, particularly in the consumer finance space. Bill Campbell should not be on Apple's board simply because he has a 'comfortable' position. What has he done for Apple? For that matter, what has he done for Intuit?

Mar 04, 08 - 11:58 am Comment from: Ampar

Not that I disagree with you about Quicken but . . .

"What has he done for Apple?" He's had a long history with Apple in leadership positions. And was a thorn in Sculley's side.

"Hired by John Sculley he became Apple's VP of Marketing, then ran Apple's Claris software division. When Sculley refused to spin Claris off into an independent company, Campbell and much of the Claris leadership left. However in 1998, upon the return of Steve Jobs to Apple, Campbell has sat as a corporate director on the board."

(source: wikipedia)

I voted online last Sat. I did not vote to keep Al on the board for two reasons-

1) I feel that he was added to the board more as a political statement by Jobs then for any practical business reason. Lets face it, he's not a captain of industry one would expect to see on the BOD. He's only recently amassed a fortune via his carbon credit business & movie fantasy movie production.

2) I personally don't like the man because he's a hypocrite. His family has huge ties to the coal industry. He played part in killing the Nuclear industry during the 80s thereby cementing coal as a major source of American power generation (and pollution). For him to act as the white knight savior of the environment is pure hypocrisy.

Mar 04, 08 - 12:10 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Regarding knowledge of Barack Obama...

"In a country with four broadcasting networks, four or more news networks, a couple of thousand radio stations and God only know how many newspapers and periodicals, that level of ignorance is truly breathtaking"

It's rather presumptuous of you to assume that people who don't pay attention to Barack Obama as ignorant. Not everyone is interested in politics. It's hardly "breathtaking" when people chose to ignore it because they have better things to do with their time. I'm not terribly interested in him, I guess that makes me ignorant too.

Mar 04, 08 - 12:21 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

..Global Warming...

"MDN word, more appropriate than ever: evidence, as in where's yours?"

"Global warming is a global cause, with different types of climate change"

Global Warming is not my issue, and as such I don't make it a point to study every little minutia down to the grains of sand on the beaches.

I do know this, I don't use my knowledge, opinions, beliefs or ignorance on this subject motivate me to restrict anyones freedoms.

I don't presume to tell anyone how hot or cold they can keep their house, or what car or truck they can drive or what gas milage it needs to get. I don't go around to factories and tell them how much they can produce using what means to produce them, I don't lose people jobs or make products more expensive, nor do I advocate taxation policies, or try to impose regulations on dozens of industries.

I don't fly around the globe lobbying various governments how to run their economies, what products they can produce or how, nor do I lobby against energy companies or restrict energy production.

My views and opinions on Global Warming will not cost you a dime.

I can't say the same for those on the other side of this issue. The burden of proof lies squarely in the lap of those that wish to run other people's lives based on highly suspicious, politically corrupt science that cherry picks who to target with treaties and regulations.

1. I say again, if this is really science, why did Kyoto single out richer European countries and the US, and exempt China and India?

2. If we're destroying this planet with carbon emission related warming, why did a 12 month period of slightly lower solar activity lead to the coldest 12 months in 50 years (this was a fully global phenomenon).

3. While we're at it, why do those of you who disagree with me on this issue feel self righteous about it and feel you have the right to restrict my freedoms based on your opinions?

Justify those 3 points before any of you Global Warming advocates continue this debate.

Mar 04, 08 - 12:48 pm Comment from: ron

Global Warming (caused by humans) Gore - What a load of rubbish. Farmers in my area are being put into bankruptcy because the water district has to cut the supply of water because of some smelt or snail darters. Screw the fish!

"Let my people go". What happened to that phrase?

People first, then animals and plants. Let the schools see the other side of Goreys GW BS.

*sigh* Jesus Christ, people. Really.
Somebody at MDN grins from ear to ear every time one of these political "discussions" ensues. Look at the first post that urges intelligent comments on the subject, then slams the MDN community, or at least the more conservative part of it. Wow.

Mar 04, 08 - 12:54 pm Comment from: Bluefin

@Twilightmoon

"1. I say again, if this is really science, why did Kyoto single out ...

2. If we're destroying this planet with carbon emission related warming, why did a 12 month period ...

3. While we're at it, why do those of you who disagree with me on this issue feel self righteous ...

Justify those 3 points

On point two...You are right on point one. And wrong.
Kyoto was wrong for excepting China and India. But Kyoto was crap, and was far from science. China and India are #2 and #3 contributing to global warming. At the rate carbon and greenhouse gasses are released, we hit a tipping point in about 30 yrs. before the Polar Ice Cap disappears. (Say bye to Polar Bear, Orca habitat, seriously deplete habitat for the top of the food chain for Ocean predators.) That's a dangerous endless feedback loop. In a matter of years, the US will be passed by China.

On point two...
Science is not your strong suit. Don't try a half baked argument with one example. It doesn't suit you. Stick to irrational. I'll wait while you go back and reread my last sentence. When your ready, we can move on.

Earth study, and global climate is not something you can study in a small slice of time. Global climate change is something that requires study over time. 1 yr makes for a poor statistical sample. Most studies with any scientific merit look at decades, centuries. You irrationally mention extremists, and moneyed studies. When money comes from government sources, the science all points to the conclusion that global warming is human in cause. When money comes from ExxonMobil, as was reported in the fall, and for which ExxonMobil apologized, the study comes back inconclusive. 95 plus % of scientists are certain that you are wrong. less than 5% say the data is inconclusive. Cite sources... I did in my last posts...

On point 3....

This one is easy. You would be hard pressed to find someone on this forum who argues stronger for personal liberty, and less government intrusion than I will. I believe vehemently, that government needs to stay out of the way.

But, and here's where I feel strongly:
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Read that again. I got all the time in the world, cause this is the biggie...Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Life. I want the government to hold this truth to be self evident. Life. If it's not too much bother with you and your high minded ideals, I'd like to keep on breathing and eating. Kinda what I like to euphemistically call Life.

If we don't stop those practices that are detrimental to life, we all die. I think that not having clean air, clean water, and a habitat for the food I like to hunt and fish for, we're all gonna die. Most likely not my generation (I've long since grown up), but it's better than even money that my grandkids generation is in dire straights.

We long ago accepted that govt. has the right to limit your personal freedoms to ensure the greater good. All I'm looking for is the chance to survive.

Mar 04, 08 - 01:07 pm Comment from: TowerTone

I demand a recount......

"Some 95 plus % of scientists"

I'm going to guess that means 95 scientist with weather knowledge and a large % who are in other fields, but love that big bandwagon.

And this from Thomas Sowell, a man with a great bit of common sense

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/02/28/cold_water_on_global_warming

love that guy.....

Mar 04, 08 - 01:25 pm Comment from: iDon't

Kick Gore off now!!!

@twilightmoon

There are several things to say about Kyoto.

First of all, it was never designed to acheive much. It was a very small first step, almost exclusively of symbolical meaning.

Second, it targeted the countries responsible for the shit we're in today. You think this is unreasonable? It's like demanding that those responsible for burning down your village pay most, and pay first. Is this unreasonable?

Third, the upcoming treaty will, it very clearly appears, include everyone. Still, if we give each human a carbon allowance, it's fairly clear where the work will need to be done.

Also, on a different note, most of Chinas (and Indias, I suspect) CO2 emissions come from producing the stuff YOU (and I) buy. If we count emissions on the point of consumption instead of the point of production, the CO2 emission situation would have been rather different.

PSSST, It's the sun not the emissions you knuckleheads.

The world cooled one degree in the last year. The sun is entering a period of decreased activity, and things is gonna get cool around here.

Yes recycling and conservation are great things, can we be cleaner, smarter, more sustaining?? Yes..

Global Warming according to Al Gore is a farce....

History s full of examples of "Scientists" consensus that were wrong, try reading a book without an economic agenda...

This sucks MDN. Is there a particular reason you don't remind people of these events a day or two before? I might have gone along to the meeting.

This isn't the first time you've been reactive to events. The 30th anniversary of home brew was reported on the Monday, rather than a "Here's what you can do on Saturday".

Is it too much to ask for such things to reported earlier?

I think too many people are confused by the term "global warming," while it does mean that the general trend of the atmosphere as a whole is becoming warmer, it doesn't mean that everywhere is getting the same results, and certainly not equally.

I love all the people that criticize Gore as a hypocrite for using a plane to go around telling about his findings, as if there were some other practical method for doing so, and as if he weren't trying to offset it in any way. Just go ahead and be honest, you don't like him, but if you want to be treated as if you are rational about it, then use rational reasoning, and not Rush Limbaugh (or his wannabes) talking points as a substitute for reason and logic in your own heads.

Mar 04, 08 - 02:58 pm Comment from: Noodles Noodlemann

I think Steve is ticked because Al looks so good in his t-shirts and the slicked back hair. He was added to the board because of who he was. I know that most die-hard Apple users tend to be liberal. But that is changing. I know that it gripes the die-hards that Rush Limbaugh is a Mac fan, but get used to it. Not all Mac users are libs. While most fanboys love to see Apple do better and better, I think it bothers them that the new users may not share their political leanings and fervor. Can't have it both ways. If you want your club to be bigger, there are going to be plenty of new members that are conservatives. As I have been since my first Mac in 1986. And the only thing that has bugged me about Apple was the fact that Gore was on the board. The fanboys might not mind driving their Priuses but I do. And "An Inconvenient Truth" was filled with inaccuracies.

Mar 04, 08 - 03:20 pm Comment from: Anonymous©

Shareholders are withholding approval for Gore, because he took over $6000 worth of free Apple equipment last year.

Current Apple rules, allow Directors to take as much as necessary to equip their offices, but none of the other Directors accepted any free Apple equipment, except for Gore.

Now, there's a new rule limiting how much they can take, called the Gore Rule. I imagine this proxy thing is related to that.

Much love to all those that think they know better than SJ.
May your ignorance bring you perpetual bliss.

Ron- It's considerate of you to try to help the acolytes of Exxon to better understand the fundamentals of global warming. Frankly, I look forward to the day that they are eaten by the wolf.

Mar 04, 08 - 03:57 pm Comment from: neomonkey

All you cons here don't seem to realise that the attention to global warming is not about trying to cool the earth. How can you change something you're clinging to the sides of? It's about reducing the dependence on oil as the main source of energy, and unfortunately the main lobbyists for the oil industry happen to be the present administration.

We're going to see some big shifts in energy policy under President Obama, changes that President Carter tried to introduce but was sabotaged by corrupt republicans. Okay, that's redundant.

I would go for a trade-off, Al Gore being removed from Apple's board, as long as Rush Limbaugh is banned from radio. We can't afford Rush's lies and sophistry poisoning political discourse anymore. There's too much to do to fix the damage that's been done in the last 7 years.