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Jan 17, 08 - 01:09 am Comment from: Cubert

Uhhhh....OK. Thanks MDN.

Jan 17, 08 - 01:15 am Comment from: HotinPlaya

This is not what I have read ,
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/15/first_look_apple_tv_2_0_and_itunes_movie_rentals_photos_video.html

"Now, users can rent and buy movies, as well as buy music, music videos, and TV programs directly from the iTunes Store using the simple remote control. While music and video purchases can be synced back to a desktop iTunes library, just like the new WiFi Store on the iPod Touch and iPhone, video rentals ordered on Apple TV can't.

You can rent movies directly from iTunes for playback on iPods, but those can't be synced to the Apple TV. Therefore, you have to choose whether a rental you order is something you want to watch on TV or anywhere else, before you actually rent it. Given that rentals are $3.99 and $4.99, that decision isn't as deeply ponderous as it might initially seem to be."

Before I read this, I rented a movie via iTunes, and can not get it to AppleTV, and if I have read this correctly, I will not be able to,

but what if it's on your ipod and the 24 hours passes after you start it? does it disappear?

Jan 17, 08 - 01:20 am Comment from: HotinPlaya

The way I read it, and many others on Apple forumns, you have to decide if you want it on hand helds (iPhone iPod) or computer, you down load thru iTunes, if you want it on AppleTV buy from there.

I purchased a rental thru iTunes, and can not get it to AppleTV, and no one else has either

Jan 17, 08 - 01:22 am Comment from: tclash

Would it have really killed them to have a 48-hour watch window instead of 24?

Jan 17, 08 - 01:22 am Comment from: HotinPlaya

it looks like the higher quality "DVD quality" id DL on AppleTV, and the older 640 is on iTunes , and of course HD on AppleTV

While watching periods of greater than 24 hrs would be great, I'm sure that the studios balked because of existing VOD services that function this way today. The only advantage over existing VOD is legal portability of video content.

I just found out today that my 9 month old iPod 5th Generation 80GB (with video) CANNOT PLAY ANY RENTALS. Apple confirmed this in an email. They told me to upgrade to a Classic at the least to play rentals.

Jan 17, 08 - 01:45 am Comment from: tclash

Andrew:

Wow, that sucks. I have the same model iPod and from what I understood in the specs I thought it would play rentals.

Apple has both the power to amaze and to irritate...

cepin I rent movies on my cable video system as a ppv and I record it to my dvr. It stays there for as long as I want and we have watched it over and over and over and over. Yeah well you know kids they can watch a movie like cars or toy story ad infinitum. I have literally kept a movie on my dvr for 6 months or more. No 48, or 24 hours etc.

I hate the time length. I would like to see the rental as 30 days, period. Then I can watch it as often as I like, at my leisure and I am not depriving the users at the itunes store of my copy.

The big boys just don't get it, there are too worried about collecting duckets and not pleasing the consumer.

What if you just reset your computer's clock? I do it with my VMWare Windows virtual machine all the time and it isn't smart enough to notice. There has got to be some way to fool a Mac or an iPod into thinking that the 24-hour window is still open.

Jan 17, 08 - 02:20 am Comment from: iDon't

If downloaded to a MAC will Time Machine keep a copy?

Someone answer iDont's Question. Awesome if it does…

Gee.

Movie rentals.

Never heard of such an innovative thing before. My god, think of the possibilities!

This is going to revolutionize living! Humankind is on the verge of an evolutionary leap -- the likes of which has never been witnessed during the age of the earth!

OH! MY! GOD!

Snore.....

Snickering like Mutley the dog.

Jan 17, 08 - 04:33 am Comment from: gzero

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but one of the great things about seeing a movie in the theater is having to watch the movie from start to finish, in one sitting. Also, when I rent a DVD, 9 times out of 10 I'm going to watch the movie from start to finish, maybe pausing once to go to the bathroom or take a phone call. Therefore, I do not see the 24-to-watch limitation of Apple TV as a bad thing at all.

Have our attention spans become so short that we aren't capable of watching a rented movie in one sitting? Seriously. People here at MDN - and on the Net generally - who are whining about not having a rented movie for longer than 24 hours strike me as people who fall into this category; having short attention spans.

@Yawn-Snore

Yes, yes, it's fun to be cynical and snarky. But in your haste to make fun of movie rentals as nothing new, you've missed the long term implications.

Right now TV and movie content are piped into your home via cable or Satellite or delivered to your home via Rental store or rentals delivered by mail. Apple is setting up iTunes as the new, digital, way to deliver all content - TV, movies, music, podcasts, pictures - to your iPod, computer or big screen TV. There are three major distinctions between iTunes and current content delivery methods. iTunes is 1) Ala carte purchasing of content; 2) distribution of content to TV AND computer and portable iPod like devices; and 3) convenient (instant ordering and no travel).

Make fun all you want. But it only shows your ignorance. You are watching the beginnings of an entirely new and revolutionary way to purchase and watch content.

Jan 17, 08 - 05:33 am Comment from: DRM sucks

gzero: I do not think it is about not being able to watch a movie in one sitting. It is about the freedom to watch a movie several times over a weekend or, if an unexpected interruption occurs, not having to finish by the same time the next day.

Apple and the studios would not lose anything by having it be 48-72 hours.

The 24 hour rental is unreasonable and won't last. For me, it is a no go. Sit tight & don't rent. Apple will eventually change it to a more reasonable time, e.g. 72 hours.

Having to choose your device before downloading is pretty dumb. The possible reasons are:

1. Apple paternalistically deciding that you don't want to use so much drive space on your computer/'pod; and

2. Apple wanting to create an incentive (i.e. force people) to buy tv.

oh, maybe 3. The 'Pods don't have the processor power to decode those massive complex files that include the best picture quality...

It just seems like the whole selling point for Apple over Netflix or Cable is the broad eco-system in which you can view the movie. As soon as they start limiting that variety they lose...

Besides, doesn't anyone remember from the keynote that Steve said something like, "So you can start watching on your tv and if you need to catch a plane you can transfer the movie to your iPod and finish watching there"?

I could swear he said something like that.

That's stupid. If I rent a movie from Amazon I can watch it as many times as I want before I choose to return the DVD. So I can watch it, then my daughter can watch it, then my wife, etc. We don't all have to watch at the same time/within 24 hours. That's a deal breaker for me.

Jan 17, 08 - 06:39 am Comment from: hoodatmac

there's understandable griping about the 24 hour window. I think even just extending it to 36 hours would make a huge difference. Or even 30. If you're watching a movie and don't finish it, you're likely to want to finish it at the same time the next day...say 8pm. a 24 hour window won't let you do this, but a short extension of this would, and, I think, make a big difference in the success of this.

Keynote: 48:05-48:25
"You can order them for your computer your iPods or your iPhone right on your computer, you can order them for your wide screen televisions right on your television from AppleTV."

Keynote: 32:00-32:12
"You can now order television shows and music right from your AppleTV. And if you're using a computer it will automatically sync them right back to your computer."

Seems like there's a difference between movies, television shows and music...

Jan 17, 08 - 08:04 am Comment from: effwerd

While watching periods of greater than 24 hrs would be great, I'm sure that the studios balked because of existing VOD services that function this way today.

With my cable on demand service, I get 24 hours to initiate watching the movie. If I rent at 6 PM Monday and watch the movie, I can at 5:59 PM the next day start watching it all again from the beginning. Apple's terms sound as if I would need to start watching the movie the second time the length of the movie earlier than 6 PM Tuesday. If this is the case, well, that's just bad. It would mean that I would have to forgo watching the movie on Monday for the length of the movie so I could watch it again on Tuesday at 6.

Jan 17, 08 - 08:24 am Comment from: Wade

NB- Your local library probably has a very good collection of DVD's.

the reason that you cannot sync a rented movie onto your apple TV right noe is because the software update enabling the new interface for AppleTV is not out yet. steve said two weeks for that product, then all will work just fine.

obviously if the software does not support it it wont work. oh and steve also said all CURRENT generation iPods support rentals in the keynote and then showed a picture of the current iPods.

jesus christ, be a little patient and pay better attention.


MDN word: some, as in some people!

Jan 17, 08 - 08:29 am Comment from: Chuck U Farley

What happens if you are watching when the 24 hours expires?
Does it just stop and delete itself?

Sorry Apple, RedBox beats you. $1 per day.

If you have kids, 24 hours is not workable. If I'm watching a movie I often have to wait until after they go to bed, which means I often require 2 nights to finish a movie. If the kids are watching a movie, it is usually only for an hour a night, so again we need at least two nights to finish. At a minimum, it should be a 36 hour rental so you can pick up the next evening to finish. I think a much more realistic time would be 3 days. As long as you have paid to rent it, and you can only watch it on one device at a time, and they are not waiting to get the disk back, I don't really understand why they would limit it to 24 hours... Is the movie industry that afraid that I'm going to invite someone else over after I watched it to see a second showing???

HD Downloads? Who's kidding who here? The compression codec used on Blu-ray or HD DVD is WWM/VC-1 or MPEG-4 Part 10/H.264.

So, Apple is going to somehow dupe people into believing their iTunes 1.3 Mbps H.264 MPEG-4 based 720p 30-fps video stream is HD? Those iTunes videos don't even meet DVD specs - 8 Mbps MPEG-2 480i 60-field. HD DVD is 13 Mbps average bitrate using H.264, so all you're getting from iTunes is HD resolution - you're NOT getting HD quality.

I wonder how many people will fall for "HD downloads"?

Well I for one will be now purchasing a AppleTV just to be able to rent movies on demand.

Of course I'll have to figure out how to connect a wireless router to my room mates GODAWLFUL WINDOWS COMPUTER... (my Precious is in the Apple shop)

Still running anti-virus, anti-spyware every morning. What a chore...

I suggest everyone putting an enhancement request in to up the rental viewing time. http://www.apple.com/feedback/appletv.html

Jan 17, 08 - 09:13 am Comment from: grok

Yikes, people. If you go over the 24 hours, and you really want to watch it again, just rent it again.

We're asking for quite a bit of service here for a measly 3 bucks...

I'm surprised to see that people discuss reasons that Apple's new offerings don't suit them and on that basis denounce them as rubbish or a failure. There are very few, if any, products or services that will suit everybodys demands, budget or lifestyle: if someone wants to rent a movie and have several members of their family watch that movie individually and at different times, over a period longer than 24hrs, then iTunes Movies Rentals is not the service for them. If someone think the apps on the iPhone are so fantastic, then I don't understand why they aren't prepared to pay for them? I mean, you can see the value but you want them for free?? I can see why someone with a 9 month old iPod will be disappointed that it won't play rented movies. But it does everything it was supposed to do when it was bought, and sadly technology isn't future proof! I would like people just to be more realistic. If a new product doesn't have the features, price tag or backwards compatibility you want it to, then fair enough, be disappointed, and write about your disappointment, but don't slate it as a failure.

Jan 17, 08 - 09:34 am Comment from: Ampar

"What happens if you are watching when the 24 hours expires?"


The viewer receives a phone call in which a voice condemns the viewer to death in exactly seven days. Read the EULA carefully, people.

hmmm.... Dish PPV. $3 for a movie in standard or HD (1080). I keep it. Transfer it to my PocketDish (worst GUI interface ever... but at least it's Linux, so it's stable, but definitely no ipod), but portable with a sync. The appleTV quality just wasn't there for me. I'll look again to see if it's improved. Not seeing the life changing implications here. Huge mac fan here, but probably the weakest macworld in a while. (Sorry, but 1 USB, no firwire on the Air.... for almost $2K?) no thanks. I love my little 12" powerBook, even in it's G4-ness. Man, I wish they would bring back that footprint. THAT's what spaces was made for.

@Former Mac User

The accepted definition for HD on a TV includes 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. Apple is just using accepted definitions. However, I agree that multiple resolutions has made HD and HDTVs confusing to the consumer, and many people have already probably been "duped" into buying 720p TVs.

From wikipedia: "High-definition (HD) video generally refers to any video system of higher resolution than standard-definition (SD) video, most commonly at display resolutions of 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080i or 1080p)."

As for renting movies: Engadget has a nice table.

Movies RENTED on iTunes (computer) can be moved to AppleTV, Macs, PCs, iPods, iPhones, but note you cannot rent HD movies on iTunes.

HD movies RENTED on AppleTV can only play on AppleTV. Other lower-quality movies RENTED on AppleTV can be moved to Macs, PCs, iPods, iPhones.

Anything (TV shows, videos, music, movies) BOUGHT on AppleTV can be moved to Macs, PCs, iPods, iPhones, but note you cannot buy HD movies (only rent) on AppleTV.

I believe all of this only works after AppleTVs and iTunes are updated.

the keynote, he said you sync the apple tv and ur mac with the movies. he rented a movie on the apple tv and said itll be auto matically synched to ur mac.

I agree with Chuck U Farley... for a buck a day, RedBox has me won over. I can keep moves for 72 hours and still pay what Apple wants me to pay for a 24 hour movie... and with RedBox, I get better quality and sound and bonus material... As RedBox goes into more supermarkets and wal-marts, people will see Apple's prices are not good. And this is coming from a total Apple junkie.

Rentals from Apple need to be 1 dollar for 24 hours if they want to be successful. 2.99 and 3.99 is lame.

I really like that Apple is moving in the rental direction.. I hope that it will eventually be extended to TV Shows. I have an Apple TV and I love it - I watch all my media: Photos, Movies Shows, Vids and I use it as an iTunes streaming jukebox for the living room. However, I don't think I will be regularly renting Movies on iTunes until the price comes down and the rental period is extended to at least 48 hours. In my grocery store, there is an automated kiosk with 200 New Releases that rent for $1 per 24 hours: $1 + Handbrake + Apple TV = A very rapidly growing digital library.

Jan 17, 08 - 10:23 am Comment from: hedgehogfrenzy

Former Mac User, get your facts straight. iTunes H.264 downloads can be up to 5 Mbps (including audio). That means an average bitrate of 4.5 Mbps for video and .5 Mbps for 5.1 Dolby audio. A 4.5 Mbps in MPEG-4 (h.264), the quality will be pretty striking. OTA HD is usually only broadcast around 12 Mbps (in MPEG-2) and most HD-DVD/Bluray discs average 18 Mbps (in MPEG-4, but also at 1080p). A lot of HD-DVD/Bluray average in the 10-13 Mpbs range including audio. So, as you can see, Apple is not trying to pull the HD wool over our eyes. I distribute HD h.264 media to servers at my Fortune 150 company for viewing in H.264 at 3.96 Mbps (720p) and it looks damn good.

Jan 17, 08 - 10:29 am Comment from: Ampar

"Former Mac User, get your facts straight."

To paraphrase ChrissyOne, you might have more luck arguing with a grapefruit.

Jan 17, 08 - 10:43 am Comment from: hedgehogfrenzy

@ Mark

What do you mean by "duped" into buy 720p TVs? Your eyes can't tell the difference at normal viewing distances. Take a 50" set for example. The difference between 720p and 1080p won't become apparent until you are 9.8 feet to the set, and won't be fully apparent until you are 6.5 feet to the set. 9.8 is a normal viewing distance for a 50" set. Once you get beyond 50", the difference becomes more apparent more quickly, especially in projectors that hit in excess of 60". So, I don't think that consumers were "duped" into 720p. The "Full HD" 1080p marketing is just that, marketing. It all depends on the size of your set. Plus, your not going to see 1080p broadcasting this decade, or next (bandwith).

Jan 17, 08 - 10:45 am Comment from: hedgehogfrenzy

I see Ampar. I don't read the comments enough to know "Former Mac User's" history. People's lack of HD knowledge kills me.

So can I assume rentals will stay on an iPod indefinitely until it is re-synched with the parent computer?

EX: I rent 5 videos, sync to iPod, go on vacation & watch movies over 2 weeks, return home/sync & have movies disappear?

Or does new iPod firmware (?) know when 24 hours has expired since you pressed PLAY & refuse to play them anymore.

I highly doubt it is Apple's fault that there are all of these restrictions. It is definitely the studios. Apple is just trying to get the ball rolling on this technology. Give it a chance and a little time and things will hopefully get better as the studios hopefully loosen the terms up.

Jan 17, 08 - 11:33 am Comment from: Big Al

Let's see,

1) Rent from Apple and watch them disappear in 24 hrs.

2) Rent and rip from the local DVD rental place, one month earlier than iTunes Store, rip and watch at my leisure for the rest of time.

3) Download from the bit torrents one month earlier and watch at my leisure for the rest of time.

Decisions, decisions.

I will stick with option #2 for now. In my mind, it is morally OK, no matter what the powerful Studios have their bought and paid for politicians say.

Jan 17, 08 - 11:58 am Comment from: ken1w

@ Big Al...

You can also break into your "local DVD rental place," steal the DVD, and watch at your leisure for the rest of time.

Of the choices you mentioned, (1) is the only legal one. There are, of course, many other legal choices that you did not mention.

"If downloaded to a MAC will Time Machine keep a copy?"

What's a "MAC"?

The restrictions are definitely imposed by the studios. They didn't want Apple TV to cut into their lucrative DVD sales. Why else would there be a 30 day wait between the release of DVD's and the release on Apple TV?

Many have criticized Jobs for failing to "play nice" or "cooperate" with the Movie Moguls. To get everyone on board with Apple TV, he finally made some compromises. But those compromises are bad for both the consumer and the studios (the studios are just too foolish to understand that they are shooting themselves in the foot with their foolish restrictions). Jobs was able to coerce the record labels to do what was best for the consumer and for digital music sales. And they've thanked him for revolutionizing the industry by claiming that Apple (and not piracy) has ruined the music industry.

Jobs did not have the economic might to coerce the video industry into using a less restrictive format. We can only hope that market pressures will eventually show them that lower prices and less restrictions will be more lucrative than higher prices with short rental time frames.