MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Nov 07, 09 - 10:52 am Comment from: breeze

smaller screen ? Does not compute.

Nov 07, 09 - 10:55 am Comment from: MacTony

There's no way in hades, Apple is coming out with a 2.8" iPhone.. There's no reason to going smaller.

Heck, I wish they'd go up to a 4" or 4.25" screen.

Didn't they report a smaller iPhone was going to be released earlier this year, too? That report sure turned out to be legit, didn't it?

Nov 07, 09 - 11:08 am Comment from: cptnkirk

As soon as I read the bit about a smaller screen, I knew that this report was nonsense. I don't believe Apple would change the form factor. A smaller screen would be VERY impractical!

Absolute hogwash!

iDon't want to see the iPhone on Verizon's network.

Nov 07, 09 - 11:12 am Comment from: mr_matalino

iPhone nano maybe?

Nov 07, 09 - 11:15 am Comment from: iPhoner

Software giant Microsoft said it will cut 800 employees worldwide, in addition to the 5,000 cuts already announced. To add insult to injury, severance packages will include Windows 7.

(Copied and Pasted from, "This Just In" App. Thought it was funny:-)

This is going to stop potential Android buyers on their tracks.

Now, they must wait until next year to find out their real choices
at wee rye son.

Vapor, smoke or what have you -- these talk introduces an
element of uncertainty.

And rational consumers' reaction has to be to wait to find out more,
and suspend any immediate plans to buy Moto's Froid.

Nov 07, 09 - 11:22 am Comment from: LeeSweet

Sigh... the whole point of the platform (iPhone, iPod touch) is that there is one form factor for us and developers. This is obviously a bogus report.

Nov 07, 09 - 11:29 am Comment from: Zach

I had someone tell me the other day that AT&T;'s contract is up in June with Apple and Verizon would be getting the iPhone. We shall see

Nov 07, 09 - 11:39 am Comment from: iSteve

Verizon? Maybe. Smaller screen? Not a chance. The ecosystem is based on the current screen size.

Nov 07, 09 - 11:43 am Comment from: XJMPasadena CA.

Lololo u guys r on point about smaller screen... Bunch of BS keep the smaller screen..

Nov 07, 09 - 11:45 am Comment from: justme2

Supposed "smaller screen size" has me discounting reports; developers would have a fit if they had to redesign apps for a smaller screen. Makes no sense...

Today in puerto Rico newspaper announced that ATT bought Centennial mobile with almost 1million suscribers in USA and PR. Centenial is one of the largest carriers in the Caribbean with CDMA network. Fusion will be completed by June 2010 and they announced iPhone compability

Nov 07, 09 - 11:54 am Comment from: Beowulf

Almost sounded beleivable until they said smaller screen. Won't happen.

Nov 07, 09 - 12:04 pm Comment from: Think

From newswires:

"To provide the best experience possible for Centennial customers who choose to migrate to AT&T;service, prior to the transition, AT&T;plans to deploy 3G at more than 200 sites in Centennial's markets. This deployment plan includes adding 3G capabilities at more than 100 sites and expanding 3G coverage and capacity at approximately 100 sites."

and this excerpt:

"AT&T;plans to integrate Centennial's networks and products with AT&T;'s networks and product portfolio. The transaction extends AT&T;'s wireless network coverage in primarily rural areas of Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, Ohio and Texas as well as enhances coverage in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands."

So looks like CDMA is not going to be used, and finally beefing up the rural areas where AT&T;is weak. I know in Ohio from personal experience. You get out from the big cities and their coverage sucks.

Here is the link to the full article: http://newsblaze.com/story/2009110605541700001.bw/topstory.html

Nov 07, 09 - 12:06 pm Comment from: DX

Even if the screen was higher density, allowing the same pixel count as current models, that still doesn't resolve the issue of keyboard usability or overall finger-friendliness. How could they possibly make a 2.8" screen workable when the current portrait keyboard is already such a tight fit?

Nov 07, 09 - 12:07 pm Comment from: grognard

Agree with LeeSweet:

Look at the any stats regarding global market share comparing GSM vs CDMA- Its around 81 % for GSM and 19%.CDMA.

Apple is a global company and they look at market share globally. In the Americas (not US alone) GSM is 88% and CDMA is about 10% 1.5% others. (Source: 4rth qtr 2008 market share by technology- Wireless Intelligence.)

So unless this 'something completely different', this phone is more wishful thinking by those happy customers of
Verizon who want an Iphone. Not sure how happy they would be using a Iphone on a 2.8" screen though..

Verizion is not going to get the Iphone until they get away from CDMA which is what I think they are planning to do in the next few years anyway.





Besides, It still makes not sense for Apple to make a phone with CDMA, based on global market share, it 80%-20% in favor of GSM. Only the US is the abberation here ( kinda like Metric vs. English system) google CDMA-GSM global Market share and it's about 80% to 20% in favor

Nov 07, 09 - 12:09 pm Comment from: grognard

oops - ignore the bottom para. I forgot to delete before I posted.

Nov 07, 09 - 12:27 pm Comment from: macslut

The reason why the smaller screen isn't believable has nothing to do with developers. The resolution could be the same even if the screen is smaller. This would have zero impact on developers.

The real problem is that since everything would scale down, the keyboard and other interface items would all be much smaller.

There's really nothing to gain from a smaller iPhone.

The idea that Apple is coming out with a smaller screen CDMA iPhone is silly and not worth considering.

CDMA only makes snse for China. Why would Apple add a radio chip but make the phone smaller?

Yet another bogus report from Taiwan industry "sources". And yet people publish this stuff without any verification.

Well, it doesn't seem likely with the smaller screen; however, one, adding a second radio means sacrificing space internally, not just for the hybrid radio chip, but for the antennas, which must be reconfigured; and two, the screen size of 2.8" at the same pixel density would mean a screen only 22.5% smaller in the horizontal and vertical dimensions. I think while most would consider that too small, when the iPhone came out, I think most considered it rather large. A phone 22.5% smaller in each dimension would more closely resemble the size of traditional phones.

The screen is not actually smaller, it's just farther away.

Nov 07, 09 - 01:27 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Wow. What a bunch of ignoramuses.

You just can't let go can you? You can't tHInk DiffErent can you. You think you're in lockstep with Steve Jobs but he's already given his blessing to Apple's road map to the future.

He's not going to nit-pick how the work gets done.

I told you Verizon is getting an iPhone. Apple has closed the divide between two platforms once again.

All the naysayers have done is to prove they can't tHInk DiffErent because they're still waiting for retribution.

Within a year the iPhone will be on all carriers with models and plans starting for little more than a Benjamin.

Now the Blood Flood* can begin.

* It's mine. I meant to use the trade mark symbol but my Touch is missing that keystroke.

Nov 07, 09 - 01:57 pm Comment from: LordRobin

@G4Dualie: Nice angry rant with little content. I see you didn't bother to rebut any of the arguments as to why a CDMA iPhone would make no damn sense. I'm going to guess that's because you can't.

I'll believe in a Verizon iPhone the day one is announced. Until then, all the evidence -- from Verizon's use of CDMA to their anti-iPhone Droid ads -- points away from the possibility of a Verizon iPhone.

This is just as likely FUD designed to keep people from considering the Droid. Not that it's really necessary, but maybe a Taiwanese manufacturer is a little nervous about future business.

------RM

@ G4Dualie

Everybody "thinks different". The trick is to "think different" with intelligence.

This report is certainly suspect. The "smaller iPhone" rumor has already been shown to be false earlier this year, and as other commeters here have noted makes no sense anyway. So, you'd be foolish not to view this story with at least some skepticism.

P.S. The app you want is "Glyphboard", which allows you to copy/paste the trademark symbol and other similar characters.

Nov 07, 09 - 02:07 pm Comment from: grognard

@G4Duallie

Sorry, it's not Steve Jobs thinking but rather global marketing. Tell me are the Iphones sold in China CDMA? I don't thinks so. Over 80% of the world market is GMS less that 20% CDMA. Why make a phone for 20% fof the Global Market?

Verizon will get the Iphone in a few years, when everyone converges on a single global standard. GSM + or whatever.

T-mobile will get the Iphone before Verizon does as they are already GSM. And T-mobile carries the Iphone in Germany. No technological leap for them other than more capacity and coverage.

Nov 07, 09 - 02:08 pm Comment from: qka

@ Stiff Ballme
That's a good one - Moto's Froid.

Whether you meant it to sound like "fraud", or were intending the French froide for cold, both are very funny.

Hey MDN, pick up on this one!

Nov 07, 09 - 02:53 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

CDMA is dead end!

You think size matters? Resolution is the word of the day.

Qualcomms hybrid is a bridge not a doorway.

The trouble I think is you guys get locked into a paradigm and you won't budge.

Hell would freeze over before Apple goes anywhere near Microsoft or windows!

Let's review what you all said about that cannard.

As I see it, you're all still looking for the puck.

This is business gentlemen, and anyone who doubts Apple is bringing the iPhone to every carrier on the planet, raise your hands!

Apple NEVER built their phone with a single carrier in mind. EVER!

They snickered under their breath when he said one percent. No one imagined for a moment that he'd ever be content with one percent.

Admit it, you've wondered how is he ever going to gain real traction or marketshare with a couple of SKUs and a single carrier?

Suddenly it was announced a deal has been made with several carriers outside the US, including two in Canada that are CDMA only, but they managed to bridge the gap between two competing technologies.

Your problem is you can't find the real truth among the lies and false leads.

What if I told you there is no smaller phone? It matters not because you would carefully craft another obstacle.

Personally, I wish Apple would just licence the OS to the carrier and turn every smart phone on the planet into iPhones over night, but unfortunately there just aren't enough of them yet.

Perhaps Apple is waiting for the manufacturers and carriers to obtain parity with the iPhone before the OS will provide the optimum experience across the board. Hopefully, multi-touch's impact on the consumer will cause the handset makers to consider licensing the tech from Apple.

Either way, I say it's simpler for Apple to invest in a hybrid chip as a temporary solution, pending the death of CDMA, rather than waiting for Verizon to drop CDMA or LTE.

You know, many of you live here but you're always the last to know!

Nov 07, 09 - 03:09 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@grognard

Why make a phone for 20% fof the Global Market?

Indeed, why build a computer for 3 percent of the global market?

I was with Apple when their computer market share was probably as high as 90 percent of the global market in the late Seventies and early eighties and stayed when it shrunk to less than 3 percent.

Imagine the balls it took to continue making computers and charging twice what its competitors were charging for theirs! But more importantly, I and many like me, were still buying macs because we knew there was more to the story.

Coke/Pepsi LTE/GSM

Nov 07, 09 - 03:13 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@Robin

I see you didn't bother to rebut any of the arguments as to why a CDMA iPhone would make no damn sense.

Bingo! I don't suffer fools.

Nov 07, 09 - 03:30 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Breeze stumbled and Mac tony tripped over him, followed by driver.

Everyone focuses, nay, gets hung up on a single detail and immediately the entire topic is suspect.

captain kirk declares "Absolute hogwash!"

Some of you however, have kept an open mind about Verizon acquiring the phone even after discounting the idea of a new phone.

That's all I've done, really. Is focusing on the HOW of it, not the why.

Would anyone here walk away from this experience just because Apple chooses to do business with Verizon?

And what do you care whether Apple manufacturers a phone capable of operating on CDMA or LTE anyway? How does this impact you and your life?

What, Apple couldn't possibly make the transition seamless for developers? They INVENTED this! They are champions of the transition.

How many of you screamed and stomped your feet because Apple moved to OS X and dropped OS 9 support? Or from Moto to PPC?

How many of you left Apple because they went Intel? Or Microsoft?

The same people scoffing today are the same who could have never imagined Apple doing business with the devil.

I heard Jobs loud and clear at expo when he declared the war is over, and Microsoft won. That war was not the war to end all wars, get it?

Jobs just went ninja!

Nov 07, 09 - 03:33 pm Comment from: db

@G4Dualie

Get your facts straight...

"Suddenly it was announced a deal has been made with several carriers outside the US, including two in Canada that are CDMA only, but they managed to bridge the gap between two competing technologies."

You haven't been reading the reports, including the ones posted on this site. Bell Mobility and Telus have both been quickly and quietly upgrading their networks. I forget the name of the new technology they've used, but it is GSM compatible, and *THAT* is why they will start selling the iPhone. (In fact, Telus will start this month.)

Imagine how angry they'd be if they'd invested this much money to install a new network only to find out Apple changed its mind and is now making CDMA-compatible phones.

None of that makes sense, and your arguments don't hold any water.

Nov 07, 09 - 03:38 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

akido said,

iDon't want to see the iPhone on Verizon's network.

Why? Because you don't want them to enjoy the same experience you receive from ATT?

In other words, you want to punish Verizon, right? Tell me I'm wrong and your reasons are more noble that I had imagined?

Nov 07, 09 - 03:46 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@ mr_matalino

iPhone nano maybe?

Thank you for invoking that image.

I remember when the boards kind of creamed themselves at the thought of an iPhone Nano. Then the idea was crushed by the naysayers. A nano would only pollute the waters, adding an additional phone to support.

Suddenly, the thought of another small phone, invokes the wrath of the myopic once again. Because they're fixated on size. Never mind resolution independence.

Apple couldn't build a smaller laptop because the optical drive was an insurmountable hurdle so what does Apple do, they removed it from the drawing board. And boom: Mac Book Air with an optional drive.

They dropped the floppy drive, the optical drive, and they won't be happy until they can remove every impediment keeping them from putting a computer on my wrist!

Nov 07, 09 - 03:49 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@db

I don't have any facts! No one does. You can't even remember the name of the technology that enables Tellus to deploy the iPhone but the fact is they ARE going to get the phone and they ARE currently CDMA.

Nov 07, 09 - 03:51 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Besides the point I was making is that ATT doesn't have exclusivity to the phone outside the US.

It wasn't all that long ago when ATT was the ONLY carrier. Now how many are there?

Nov 07, 09 - 04:07 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@db

Let me get this straight, you were even part of the discussion nor have you said anything that hasn't been said already, and instead of refuting what the author is saying, or injecting your thoughts on the matter, your first order of business is to whack me? What, like I'm some kind of troll?

Did I hit a nerve? Apparently, you speak for everyone here, is that it? Your loyalty is showing.

I'll tell you what db, you defend them and I'll defend Apple. K, cupcake?

Nov 07, 09 - 04:09 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@robin

This is just as likely FUD designed to keep people from considering the Droid.

If it is, its genius!

Nov 07, 09 - 04:14 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@lee
Sigh... the whole point of the platform (iPhone, iPod touch) is that there is one form factor for us and developers. This is obviously a bogus report.

Tell us, how does this impact you as a user or a developer?

Do you really think Apple would allow the app store to suddenly start stocking two different kinds of applications; one for the hybrid and one for 3G?

Aren't they doing exactly that now with apps for 3GS and the first-gen SKUs?

Nov 07, 09 - 04:34 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Where'd everybody go? go go go echo echo echo

Oh, I see. You've moved on already.

Dismissed the idea of a Verizon iPhone. Just like you dismissed OS X, PPC, Intel procs, Windows on Mac, and wait for it... glossy screens.

I'm just sayin'

Verizon will get iPhone next year, followed by Sprint, and T-Mobile and the transition will be seamless for everyone, including the developers but here's the real mayo; the developers are going to become filthy rich selling ninety-nine cent apps to world.

After that you'll all return to doin' what it was you were doin' before Apple turned your heads. Phhffft

Nov 07, 09 - 05:13 pm Comment from: Predrag

G4Dualie:

For a while there, it looked like you were having a conversation with yourself there. Isn't there anything you could do on a Saturday afternoon...? Well, I'm here as well, so there.

I can see you really, really hope (and cross your fingers) for Verizon to be allowed to sell and iPhone. It won't.

Hybrid CDMA/GSM chips have been available for a long time. Other handset makers have been making dual models of their phones forever (GMS and CDMA variant). Regardless of the grim future of CDMA and small global market share, it would be trivial for Apple to build CDMA. That is NOT it.

Apple is now receiving a MASSIVE subsidy from AT&T. No other carrier is paying $450 per device; the maximum subsidy for high-end smartphones is never more than $250. This subsidy is normally recovered over the period of 18-20 months. This is why carriers require two-year contracts; so that they can recover the subsidy from monthly plan payments. Once 18-20 months expire, you are allowed to get a new free phone (and extend the contract for two more years). With iPhone, AT&T cannot recover that subsidy during that two year contract. In order to get the extra $200, it takes another 15-18 months. Even though you are still only required two-year contract on an iPhone, the subsidy won't be completely covered until after three years of use. This is because AT&T is the ONLY carrier in the US, and practically EVERY old iPhone where two year have expired will stay on AT&T (it has nowhere to go). Due to a different subsidy model on the EDGE iPhone, many of those have already recovered their subsidy (which was lower, due to the higher up-front price of $400). For the past year and a half, though, the iPhone's retail up-front price was $200.

If Apple decided to extend iPhone to other carriers, AT&T would IMMEDIATELY have to drop that subsidy down to $250 or so. There would be no chance they would be willing to take the massive risk of customers bailing out immediately after two years and switching to another carrier (Verizon, T-Mobile, whichever). And as we know, dissatisfaction with AT&T isn't all that trivial, so these numbers could potentially be huge, so they can't afford that risk. Same would go for the other carrier; NOBODY would be able to risk the $450 subsidy, unless they require 3-4 year contracts.

Outside of US, iPhone is offered on multiple carriers in many countries. However, if you study their plans, it is clear that the carriers is subsidising the device heavily, locking the consumer in a long-term contract, or requiring an expensive monthly plan. There just ain't such a thing as free lunch, and nobody would be getting it here via Verizon either.

Apple simply CANNOT afford to go with multiple carriers today, unless they are willing to cut their profit margin on an iPhone by some 60% (i.e. by $250 per device). The benefit of multiple carriers (possibly larger addressable market) is insignificant compared to the massive loss in profits it would have to absorb by so dramatically cutting that margin.

Until iPhone becomes significantly cheaper to make, there will be no Verizon (or T-Mobile, or Sprint) iPhone in the US. And CDMA has very little to do with it.

Nov 07, 09 - 05:17 pm Comment from: Predrag

In other words, Apple has painted themselves in the corner with the current iPhone hardware platform and AT&T as a carrier. Until the paint dries, they're stuck (and it might take years to dry...).

Nov 07, 09 - 05:26 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@Predrag

Okay then, there it is. You've put that canard to rest. No point in beating a dead horse, right?

CDMA is dead and LTE will die on the vine because Apple won't support Verizon's effort to offer an alternative to GSM. Perhaps that's a better strategy, kill off LTE by ignoring it and side with the rest of the world to use a single platform like GSM.

Apple will get by without Verizon's, Sprint's and T-Mobiles business anyway.

I'll let it go.

After all it's just my opinion, supported without any facts whatsoever. I've been wrong before. Hell, I'm probably wrong about manufacturing in the US as well.

Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me.

Hey Predrag, do us a favor and hit the lights on your way out.

Cheers!

Nov 07, 09 - 06:12 pm Comment from: Zeke

Translating the story:

This message is from Verizon, but we don't want anyone to know that, so we planted a rumor. Our real aim is to keep our customers from switching to AT&T;to get an iPhone (which they are now doing in droves), now that we fear the Droid is not an iPhone killer. So yes, our story is we'll be getting the iPhone really soon! And we've added some details to make the story seem plausible. So there's really no reason to consider switching to AT&T;. Really! We promise!

Nov 07, 09 - 06:43 pm Comment from: macerroneous

"Dualie"
Does that mean what I think it means? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

You fan boys crack me up. I remember how y'all pissed yer panties over the rumers that Apple was going to Intel procs. "Intel is the worst piece of crap in the world!" You remember, huh do ya?

Now yer prancin around all a twitter over the very idea that someone besides AT&T;might carry iPhones. Really, you guys crack me up.

Nov 07, 09 - 08:32 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@macerroneous

Probably not, but are you the same "50-year-old forum provocateur" who works in the medical field and who said this over in the MacWorld forums back in August of '08?

Chipset shmipset

I'm just an idiot, but I don't think Apple is leaving Intel just yet.

Nov 07, 09 - 08:39 pm Comment from: Predrag

Reverse Thrust

If you had read these boards at all, you may have found out that there is a preponderance of fans o Verizon here, and the only reason forum contributors are with AT&T (those that are) is the iPhone. Not much love for the carrier, otherwise.

Very many here would camp for a week in order to switch to Verizon if it were available. So, plenty really, really wish it so, and try to argue with every bit of reason in that favour, interpreting every single shred of rumour with that spin.

My own opinion is that those hopes are against the reality, as I had explained in my rather lengthy contribution here (and elsewhere, previously).

Apple simply can't afford to jack up retail price back to $400, only to be able to sell iPhone on other US carriers.