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Ah jeez, not again. I have to say i was surprised when Apple went nVidia again for the new notebooks, i was sure it would be ATI and would have bought one if it was

Uh ohhhhhh

Dec 09, 08 - 12:28 pm Comment from: rdbvideo

What happened to good old soldered pins?

I have 2 perfectly fine G3 iBooks, and one G4 iBook, that are all dead thanks to this condition.

Yes, I've tried the pressure/heatgun/blowtorch fix... with temporary success.... But shouldn't have had to.

Dec 09, 08 - 12:30 pm Comment from: Randian

Having just sent my MacBook Pro Santa Rosa back for nVidia repairs a month ago (thanks, Apple, for extending the warranty a year!), I was kinda', sorta' hoping this problem would go away in the next iteration of MBPs. (Really want a new 17".)

Apparently it HASN'T. Dang. What's up with nVidia QA people?

Given that Apple made a point of getting a specific guarantee from nVidia before proceeding with these models, it's likely that nVidia will pay for the repairs if they are needed.

Dec 09, 08 - 01:04 pm Comment from: ken1w

> an investigation lead by The Inquirer proves that not to be the case...

An "investigation"? So there haven't been any specific problems with MacBooks related to NVIDIA.

Dec 09, 08 - 01:08 pm Comment from: Ray

Uh-oh someone's BGA designs suck!!!!

Pins are fine, but probably solder bumps allow for a slimmer design. Pins probably need a socket, hence thicker MPB.

Not sure. Any chip designers here? Anyone?

Ball Grid Array=Solder Bumps?

Just askin.

Nvidia products have become crap.

Too many short-cuts, too many problems, too liitle value.

I avoid Nvidia like the plague.

from Wiki:

bending, due to a difference in Coefficient of thermal expansion between PCB substrate & BGA (thermal stress), or flexing & vibration (mechanical stress) can cause the solder joints to fracture.

Dec 09, 08 - 01:26 pm Comment from: emanon

Damn. I ordered my 15" 2.8GHz MBP the day after they came out. I guess the prudent thing to do is to buy Applecare (which I have done for all my Mac notebooks).

Dec 09, 08 - 01:40 pm Comment from: Metryq

DWJ, I'm not a computer engineer, just an electronics tech, but most devices nowadays are SMDs (surface mounted devices), which are the very low profile components that sit on the board, not stick through it. This opens up the other side of the board for use, rather than having to stick in yet another board. The circuits on either side of the board are connected by traces that run through the board -- a drilled hole with metal in it joining the circuits on either side. So, yes, SMDs will give you more compact devices.

Dec 09, 08 - 01:52 pm Comment from: Cubert

Just what in the world does Fergie have to do with the MacBook Pro?!?

Dec 09, 08 - 01:53 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Rev.A, stay AWAY!

Say NAY to Rev.A!

Rev.A macs are BETA machines.
Unless you're desperate... WAIT for Rev.B!

Dec 09, 08 - 02:27 pm Comment from: Me on this iSland

@emanon
I agree. After trouble with solder ball "fault" on my old G3 ibook, as well as more recent PSU replacement on 2 yr old iMac, I've lost some faith in the reliability of Apple's hardware/associates and will look seriously at buying Applecare with future machines, even though they get fairly light domestic use.

I remember when people complained about Apple using ATI and when they will use the "faster and better" nVidia chips. I read complaints that nVidia is better and faster, especially for gamers. Now I am hearing people complaining about nVidia and clamering for ATI. When did this happen? How did this happen?

Dec 09, 08 - 03:31 pm Comment from: Brulek

well a 'premium product' for a premium price...I think not! While it's nVidia's fault, the point remains: where's the so called premium hardware in an apple that we pay so much extra for? Well we know it isn't the GPU now don't we? It goes back to the point I made elsewhere: with an apple you really are paying a significant hardware premium so while OSX is relatively cheap, the hardware premium pushes its price up near windows vista ultimate, even beyond. And while OSX is vastly superior to vista, it alter the fact that the hardware premium is too high (yes, I know, I know, if its too high then don't pay it, so lets stop whipping that dead horse). WHile it may set you (us) apart to have a mac, well in your (our) mind(s) away, since most people don't seem to care either way so it seems, bottom line is that in a cloud computing world, osx, windows, etc are slowly becoming irrelevant. Its the browser that is key, not the OS it runs on. Let's see if the all powerful and all seeing Jobs does anything about it??? (makes Jobs sound like Sauron, doesn't it- actually if Ballmer is Sauron, Jobs then is Saruman as the lesser of two evils and Linux is the little good guys? So then Redmond is Mordor, Cupertino is Isengard? Isn't geekness sad sometimes? hehehe)

Do you idiots just sit in the weeds waiting to pounce on any negative Apple comment?

Get a life you retards.

Dec 09, 08 - 04:10 pm Comment from: Zeke

@Brulek:

If you knew your elbow from your backside you'd understand that browsers run on an OS, and the security of the browser is based on the capabilities of the OS. If you want to use Windows, be my guest. If you don't want to buy Apple equipment then by all means go to Wal-Mart and get a Lenovo for $199. Just quit whining without ever saying exactly what your problem is.

For the record, Microsoft is already dead. There's no chance that it will be in business as thye same entity in 5 years. I know you think you should be able to buy Apple equipment and software at junk PC prices, but the world just doesn't work that way.

I can't help but wonder if compliance with RoHS is in some way attributable to this problem. In the aviation community we routinely experience failed components that upon further inspection are exhibiting "tin whiskers". We never had this problem until RoHS came along and forced the removal of lead from solder. What used to be fairly reliable components are now replaced at an alarming rate due to short circuits caused by the microscopic crystalline growth that forms as a result of the tin/zinc used in RoHS compliant components.

Apple fumbles big time! Nvidia's complicity in assembling their products with faulty solder joints is not a new phenomenon. Apple should have contractually required that Nvidia fabricate their GPUs with eutectic solder joints. Obviously, Apple goofed in allowing Nvidia to use the inferior non-eutectic joints.

Dec 09, 08 - 04:44 pm Comment from: HMCIV

@ DWJ

Yes, unless your name is Quagmire. Giggidy Giggidy!!

Dec 09, 08 - 05:21 pm Comment from: Brulek

@Zeke: You're my hero for sure....

well...had you any inlking of an idea about anything (which I doubt- call it knowing sh*t from clay), you'd understand my gripe is about the so called premium price apple charges for clearly substandard hardware. Also inclusive in said gripe is the fact that all this OS-centric circle jerking that fanboy's from either side egage in is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Additionally it also it appears this premium hardware that apple charges us for is really just a way of hiding the true cost of OSX, which is apparently not too far from Vista. We think we're getting a premium product with a cheapish OS, when in reality we seem to be getting way overpriced, non-premium hardware that effectively obfuscates the true cost of OSX (since you 'can't' run osx on anything other than apples overpriced hardware).

While the paradigm of cloud computing is becoming increasingly pervasive, and inherent in that is the problem of security, that is not what the issue is about here. Blindy freddy know that OSX is vastly more secure than windows. The point is that operating systems are fading into the background. They are becoming, from the perspective of the typical user, irrelevant. OSX, Vista, Linux, Unix, etc....the average user doesn't care, as long as it works. Debate about OSes, which once occupied the center of attention of many users, is fading away. Like I said, the OS is becoming increasingly irrelevant to all but blowhards like yourself.

So, Zeke I'll be sure in future posting to make my point simplistic enough for you to grasp, even though it might be difficult to go so basic...but I'll try, just for you...actually, since your contribution is not even useless, I wont bother...

These new macbook pros really suck. Now they can flame out along with their Glossy screens.

They should call them macbook lameo

"...the OS is becoming increasingly irrelevant..."

Yeah, this is just what the Apple detractors want people to believe. What a convenient talking point. Funny this argument should magically appear during the period when Windows finally has been revealed to be five years behind in technology, as well as poorly designed, insecure, unreliable and untrusted. To be sure, Cloud Computing an online services are important, but so is the OS, the coding and the graphic user interface.

As for Apple's 'significant hardware premium,' this simply is not true.

Rather, Apple chooses not to compete in the very lowest end of the market -- the junk PC space -- occupied by Dell, H-P and other vendors. The fact is Dell, H-P and other vendors sell cheap models with a stripped-down, version of the poorly designed Windows Vista or the aging XP OS.

But Dell, H-P, Sony and others also sell well made, mid and high-end models, many of which cost the same or even are more expensive than similar hardware from Apple. Unfortunately for these manufacturers, these PCs also are saddled with the poorly designed Windows Vista or the aging XP OS.

Apple competes, with very similar hardware components that are more tastefully packaged and a different OS, in the middle and on the high-end of these markets, but not on the low-end. PC talking points aside, this is not difficult to grasp. Indeed, people with ties to the old world order (Windows) are frightened of the change we all see taking place.

The truth is, -- it is Windows that is increasingly irrelevant. Mac OS? No so.

Get used to it.

It doesn't take long to give up trying to sort through these and other internet blogs. People are mostly ignorant, with their own biases, prejudice and fountains of misinformation.

What's more- how many of you kids just skipped school again and are either not doing your homework and/or up past your bedtimes?!?!

Dec 10, 08 - 01:53 am Comment from: BillD

Tod’s post, earlier in this thread, speculating about tin whiskers may be on point. There was an article in Science Magazine, Yi Li, Kyoung-sik Moon, C. P. Wong, “Electronics Without Lead”, Volume 308, Number 5727, Issue of 3 Jun 2005, pp. 1419-1420. And NASA maintains a Web page about Tin Whiskers, http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/.
Environmental regulations requiring the removal of lead from electronics, beginning in Japan and the European Union, are achieving that goal. But a side effect has been decreased reliability in many electronic products. Two approaches involve solder materials that do not contain lead, or conductive adhesives. Neither approach has yet achieved the reliability of the old tin/lead solder, especially in components that experience high temperatures, frequent expansion/contraction related to temperature changes, or vibration. Tin solders can grow “whiskers” that have caused failures in critical electronic components, and the higher temperature required for tin solders can result in an increase in faulty components during manufacture. Probably such problems will be solved in the long run, but they have not so far proved to be simple.