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Give me a break...

I was talking about the music labels of course..

At this point, all current online,usic stores can open a European version at the same time. Let them all go and may the best service (iTunes) win! Not to mention how hot the iPods are right now. If they wait till summer, Apple will take an even bigger lead in europe because they will be able to release the mini there at the same time, which withcause a huge influx of iPod+iTunes customers, I dont see the DellDj having the same impact.

Umm, why exactly is it a bad thing for iTMS to dominate the market? If they license their songs to Apple, and Apple dominates, then doesn't that just mean more sales?

"Umm, why exactly is it a bad thing for iTMS to dominate the market? If they license their songs to Apple, and Apple dominates, then doesn't that just mean more sales?"

It means someone other than the labels gets to choose what's hot and what's not. MTV is the only one in that position right now, and the labels can't stand them as it is. That's also why they don't like downloading by song...it lets the listener choose what's good and what's bad instead of being subjected to 11 goods songs on a $15 album they bought for the 1 good song. It means the labels will actually have to work for their money.

Face it. Apple is an American company and we are not liked very much right now. The EU goes after Microsoft then drags their feet on Apple. If a European company could offer some competition, they'd jump on it.

I'm in no way defending MS. I can't stand their bully business model. As for Apple, they just have the best music store and music player in the world. No bullying necessary.

I have to agree with Plush. Record labels hate MTV, MTV gives far too much control for choosing what is hot or not to the viewers. Sure MTV pushes popular music, but many acts that labels were pushing have failed. Look at O-Town or 98 degrees. iTunes gives more choice to the listeners. Despite grips about the lack of Techno or Indie music, more users are exposed to Indie music through iTunes, and let's face it on any given day you can find Folk Music, Jazz or World Music, and Independent Artist in the top 100 on iTunes. I bet it's scary for them that Independent artist get the same level of promotion as the Big 5 Artist. They'd far per something that they could control.

This also harkens back to the DRM changes in the new iTunes 4.5. I think most people were happy to get 5 computers, and willing to lose 3 burns, but you can bet the Big 5 pushed for this, as part of their renewal contracts. Remember Apple only had a year contract with labels, a contract set to renew within weeks of/before the one year anniversity of iTMS. I'm certain Jobs and crew were negotiate hell trying to keep the terms as close to as is now, and still make things palatable for users.

DRM is all about control, and not Apple's control but the Big 5 control. Most of the Independent labels could probablly care less if the files were protect.

this is utter BS.. as it is.. online music is about what.. 0.5% of retail sales and 0.01% of stolen music on kazaa et al.?

what a worthless argument.. as it is.. the domination of p2p music isn't helping the labels much is it..?

so will they let napster in for a few weeks before apple gets in"

British journalism is a joke. Why should the Independent be any differnt? By comparison, US journalism is a gray old lady.

Attention All European Music Labels: I just got a credit card in readiness to use it at the European iTMS. Come on let me spend my money!

As the labels delay iTMS for Europe, the more and more Europeans are buying from the 6.8¢ a MB (any bitrate any format) Russian site using their Paypal accounts.

I can only imagine how many songs they are selling and the labels and the artists are not getting one penny.

Stupid idiots.

Clark Kent. I don't understand what you mean by 'grey old lady'. Can you explain please ?

British journalism is not (all) a joke and The Independent is among the elite newspapers. Charles Arthur is as pro-mac as it's possible to be while remaining balanced, and although this article is largely speculation, that's largely what his column is about.

So what at last apple will have a word. At least we will know that only the best is on iTunes the rest of the trash can go to microsoft or sony.

the other thing is that, if microsoft gets there hands on leadership in music donload, you think they will not do anything llike that, infact as we can see now, they will be getting things through monopoly just like they do with windows for now.

egarc wrote: "Face it. Apple is an American company and we are not liked very much right now. The EU goes after Microsoft then drags their feet on Apple. If a European company could offer some competition, they'd jump on it."

Don't worry, Europe can differentiate between politics and business (although they're often intertwined...). And you might have overlooked the fact, that the actors in question are not the european states (i.e. the EU), but international music labels (American, Japanese and European to be precisely), who instrumentalize their european divisions.

face it europe is shit with all of the fucked up laws, just like blayer, my cats ass makes more sence then he does, and then there is his bitch wife. dont think that europe will be any good inteal those dickheads are trying to rule it.

It means someone other than the labels gets to choose what's hot and what's not.

Yeah. The Listeners. How sad that it has come down to this. If it were possible to kick the Record Labels in the backside and get them to relent so the iTMS could open finally, I'd love to help. It's time our Music Loving friends across the pond got in on the fun.

Artiom: get a grip and an education in English before trying to converse.

Clark Kent: I just want to second the posting by Hywel. The Indie is an innovative paper staffed by real journalists who wish to encourage their readers to think. An example of their innovation is that, in London at least, they print a tabloid version of their standard broadsheet so you can read the damn thing on a train - quickly copied by The (London) Times.

On this subject, I simply repeat my statement of yesterday: only in the crazed, South American horticultural by-product fuelled world of the music industry could it be considered sensible to delay the launch of a (dare I say, THE) successful integrated music solution, preferring instead to encourage piracy and issue lawsuits.

Even the justification is nonsense: Apple wants/needs massive musical diversity to fuel the take up of iTunes and iPod. It simply would not be interested in playing favourites with artists or labels. This is contrary to MTV, where they need to favour 'hot' looking bands with eye-catching videos to encourage viewers to stay tuned in for advertising.

artiom, LOL, especially the bit about Tony and Cherie

Personally I never read The Independent. It tries too hard to be objective, which makes the articles quite dull. I'd much rather read The Telegraph and The Guardian to see two different aspects of the same story.

I can sort of believe that the record companies are doing this. For a good decade now, they've been able to dictate which artists are going to be listened to (mostly pap, with one proper band a year to keep the grown-ups happy), and they're worried they might actually have to go out and find some real talent if the public get choice in the matter.

from DakRoland:Artiom: get a grip and an education in English before trying to converse.

Ill give you a deal I will type proper english if you learn russian within 5 years. deal? sounds good to me, plus in england in my school a bit every one in the english subjects, so i belive im not the one who needs to learn english.
lets see you in 5 years with your russian knowledge, good luck lol

From what I hear about how the Big Labels do business (and screw over artists), I think it would probably be good to have Apple have some power to counteract them.

If this is true it just goes to show there is no such thing as a free market in Music - its a stich up between the record labels and nobody else is allowed a look in. I will continue to get my music from Kazaa thank you very much.

artiom, I know punctuation is hard, try to stay with me: you are an e-m-b-a-r-r-a-s-m-e-n-t. Can you pronounce that? Good! Now wipe the drool from the corner of your mouth. Good boy! You get a cookie!

Solid: In case you didn't catch on, English isn't Artiom's first language. Like he said, you learn Russian as well as he knows English, THEN you can talk...

Dave H:

The Guardian is OK - one of my favourite contract assignments of the last 10 years, admittedly because I was the late shift (12noon till 8pm) and I could get two heavily subsidised meals every day - but I was alarmed by the TV guide recently which completely cancelled the 26th April, but had two 27ths instead.

Artiom: I think your comment was meant to be aimed at me, rather than DakRoland.

I'm allowed to ask you to get a grip; if you're actually in Russia, you should focus on the parlous state of law enforcement in your own country before criticising the EU. Although it should be pointed out that this topic has nothing to do with EU regulations, or your opinions on Tony Blair (who was at least elected by what passes for a working democracy) or his wide-mouthed wife.

actually im in england

yes it was ment for MCCFR. Sorry DakRoland.

I wonder if the problem is also that if iTunes becomes too successful, that gives an artist one less reason to sign with a label - they can just go directly with iTunes.

An atrist used to need a label for the big advance to help them record an album - but now it is much more affordable for people to create their own recording studio on their Mac with Pro-Tools - so don't need a label to help with the recording.

OK - But you still want a Label would help a talent develop and nurture the talent until they hit the big time - except labels don't do that anymore either. They want a sure thing.

OK - But - without a label you're left out of the major distribution channels - which are like a closed society. With iTunes - you no longer need a label for distribution. And if iTunes goes to Europe - you don't need a label for international distrubution.

That leaves marketing - which is a good reason to go with a label. Until you sign your life away and find they don't think you are a "priority" for marketing.

I think even big names are wondering why they need a label. Very dangerous for labels. Unless you want to be the next Britney Spears - I think more and more artists will steer clear of the labels. Big Head Todd got dropped by their label - saw their sales decrease substantialy - but their income grew even more substantially. There are a number of other stories just like them.

I saw a quote by Steve Jobs where he said the lables would be more profitable if they stopped giving advances and just pay people based on what they sell. That sounds a lot like iTunes. Artists don't need no stinking label!

Good lord! C'mon! They are afraid that the Westerner's (American's) will dominate the charts in European sales. Just admit it. I heard the German's love Tito & Tarantula! Not to mention the European's actually like David Hasselhoff. It amazes me.

giofoto, you complete swine!!! Only the Germans like David Hasselhoff and don't you forget it!!!

David Hasselhoff, indeed. "Please be careful, Michael". Total shite.

The main thing the labels offer is distribution. Without that, marketing and promotion are irrelevant. Its their distribution that allows the labels to put the squeeze on artists and retailers (and consumers). What the iTMS offers is virtually no-cost distribution. As long as the labels are licensing to Apple, they can control their distribution (and the download price). What they don't want is for Apple to get the upper hand and start dictating terms to them. Face it, they're riding a tiger (well, a panther, right now, but soon...) and they don't want to lose control. He who controls the distribution controls the industry. This is true just about everywhere. Apple has come up with something they've never seen before and they still don't know how to deal with it.

Germans are Europeans.

Where's KITT?

I think Suzie Mac Fan may be on to something. I read an interview with Prince the other day where the interviewer asked him about his "comeback" and commented on how Prince's last few albums each only sold about 100,000 copies as opposed to back in the mid to late 80's he averaged around 8 million copies. His response was that since his last few albums have been released totally on his own, without record companies, he actually made more money selling 100,000 copies than 8 million because he got all of it. This may be the start of the revolution (no Prince pun intended) and it could really change every facet of the music business as we know it.

Oh, I see. Guilt by association In that case, I'm going to grow my hair into a faux afro and start talking into my watch.

*holding up a fist* SOLID!

"...and start talking into my watch"

Pardon my ignorance. Who does that?

ndelc - What you described is exactly what the Big 5 DON'T want to have happen, and it spells **DOOM** for them in so many ways. And there are so many other facets of the industry that are in a state of turmoil at this point simply because they don't know which way the industry is headed, and the easiest thing to do is dig their heels in, grab on to the doorway, and avoid change at all costs, because while it may eat them alive in the long run, at least they've got a job and some semblance of control now. Someone else above said it was all about "distribution" and I totallly agree that if you control the distribution you control who "makes it" and who doesn't in the music biz, and for years that has been the major labels, and they're scared to death they're going to lose that, hence the feet-dragging and hemming and hawing and statements of "uncertainty" about the direction that Apple is going. At some point someone somewhere is going to blink and it will all be over and we'll finally push the draggers through that door, and I'm firmly convinced that it will be Apple doing the pulling, since they're already in the next room, where their customers are enjoying the music experience they've provided. How's THAT for a long, roundabout & convoluted commentary/analogy?

The Labels are clearly playing dirty by excluding one player ( Apple ) from their deals, while favouring others.

They are acting against the interests of their customers and also against the interests of their artists. I would hope that anti-competitive practices like that can be swiftly stopped by European courts.

Now that the truth is out and that it's obvious that they are avoiding dealing with Apple, I hope that Steve Jobs has an imaginitive plan B, as getting the Labels to agree is looking unlikely.

He needs to do something bold and imaginitive as pussy-footing around will simply not work.

Nobody, you'll have to watch more rubbish cable channels to find out. Just think of who we were poking fun at as your starting point.

Ah, if I am not mistaken, it was that talking car... Knight Rider, was it?
Sorry, bud. References to cable shows are wasted on me. I never had cable and I no longer watch TV as much as I used to.

That's a good reason as far as I'm concerned. Don't apologise for having a life. Sadly, I have satellite, so instead of the normal UK five channels of rubbish, I have about sixty channels of rubbish.

Still, when I feel like vegging out and doing nothing, it comes in handy for an hour or two. Although I tend to avoid Knight Rider.

You presume too much. I still have no life. I prefer reading books and watching DVDs to watching TV now simply because most TV shows are reality TV trash. Not having life does not mean I am interested in watching other people's life. :D

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