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Apr 19, 08 - 04:54 pm Comment from: ron

And I MAY find $1000.00.

What a load of BS speculation. That wasn't a report. That was a guessing game.

No sliding and No keyboard...that is going backwards. How is that going to make a bigger screen?
I think this is a bogus report. I don't think they will muddy up their product line with too many devices. They are smarter than that.

Apr 19, 08 - 05:01 pm Comment from: tclash

Jonathan Richards is typing out of his ass.

Apr 19, 08 - 05:09 pm Comment from: Jimbo von Winskinheimer

I agree, Blue Dream. You flip the screen up and it's still going to be the same size as the unit. Why add a keyboard to something that already has a functioning keyboard when you need one???

Seems these days that anyone can be an analyst. Just guess and type.

Apr 19, 08 - 05:10 pm Comment from: Crabs

The bigger screen thing comes from Apple's flip touch screen patent ma jig. AppleInsider did a story on it a few weeks ago, go read about it.

While I don't know if it's all true, I'd really like this whole thing. I'd go for the flip version, and that would be so nice if I could use it with any carrier, because the only reason I decided to forgo the iPhone thus far is because of AT&T;.

If not, I might still get an iPhone eventually. It's just too enticing, even with its flaws.

Apr 19, 08 - 05:13 pm Comment from: CC of Oz

Add more buttons? Over Steve Jobs last dying breath maybe, but certainly not before. As for removing the exclusive carrier, well that might happen a lot sooner than the Times thinks. The iPhone is due to be released any month now in Australia. The ACCC (federal competition and consumer watchdog) might have a lot to say about any exclusive deal with just one telco). Perhaps the reporter should have placed a question mark in the headline so we can dismiss it as the pure speculation it is, yawn, and move along (nothing to see here).

Umm...riiiiiiiiiiiightttttttttttt.

Apr 19, 08 - 05:34 pm Comment from: lurker

Notice the writing "Among the possibilities are flip version, which would enable the screen to be larger, and a sliding model with a regular qwerty keyboard". Lets see - we go from a simple, elegant zen device to a flipping, fidgety gadget with lots of buttons and maybe even tail-fins. I think not.

Apr 19, 08 - 05:39 pm Comment from: Connor MacBook

Those speculating over a physical keyboard don't know Apple and are therefore unqualified to analyze them.

Thought Id share something I read today.

European sales of N95 - 7m in under 12 months, iPhone 330,000.

Thats only 21:1

I love the iphone gui/os, shame about the lack of 3g and the cost in europe

the phone and business model were designed with the relatively primitive US market in mind, it hasnt transferred well to europe, as a consumer in a way im glad it hasnt done well as the whole package is overpriced

There will be no physical keyboard and no flip screen. These analysts are morons.

Apple has patents up the wazoo for multi-touch technology, and now they're just going to abandon it for something Palm makes. Right.

at Crabs:
Sorry, if Apple foregoes its exclusive deals, it is still locked into a multi-year exclusive rights deal with AT&T;for the US. Apple can't cancel that just because it wants to.

http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9825348-37.html

Joe (hope you beat hopkins by the way) your take is totally correct on the iphone in europe, the market (like Japan, Korea etc too) is a lot more competitive and advanced than the states, the iphone is at risk of doing a mac whereby it only sells in massive numbers in the US, read the above article for a good analysis of the situation

I suppose a lot of the views on here are the US experience of iphone sales, which are good, the problem is that a lot of americans think that because it sells there, that it must sell in big numbers elsewhere too

It's sad to say, but Apple has totally failed to market/sell the iPhone in Europe in a competitive way.

iPhone is by far the best mobile phone out there, so there are lessons to be learned for Apple on how to conduct business in different markets with a new product.

I know im going off on a tangent, but what do you think apple can do to the nano line in the next revision to revitalise sales? increase in storage only?

Apr 19, 08 - 06:14 pm Comment from: TowerTone

I heard they were going to put the power button on the back......

contract != policy

It will be much harder for Apple to establish new exclusive revenue sharing business deals with carriers if the European sales will be dissapointing.

This mystic threw some chicken entrails on the ground and read all kinds of iPhones. Maybe he doesn't know that a large gizzard means an aluminum case...

Jobs is doing the same Mac-mistake with the iPhone outside the US. He says there are thresholds he cant cross, that he cant sell junk.

Junk is a relative term Mr Jobs, what is junk to you might be a good enough computer for somebody else.

I dont even think that Apple is after high market shares, they would offer low-cost Macs and iPhones if they were, for most people Jobs junk would be more than enough.

If Apple wont cater for these ppl, then the market share will always be low, quit blaming M$ for your own faulty strategy.

And a pointing device too, no doubt!

Apr 19, 08 - 06:51 pm Comment from: Gupta Feldstein from Outsourcistan

They simply don't get it. How do you spot the phonies? They suggest the iPhone will be like phones that already exist.

What utter rubbish.

Apr 19, 08 - 07:07 pm Comment from: DogGone

Remember guys the iPod took 2 years to really take off. And that was down to the mini and the windows version of iTunes.

I doubt that there will be more than one new version of iPhone unless Apple can work miracles.

In one years time a smaller and cheaper iPhone will be released.

i think you were the one that missed the point actually

the iphone business model is a step backwards for europe, our phones are heavily subsidised by the carrier, often they are free, contracts are often only 12 months long as we like to change our phones often and we get a large amount of bundled minutes and texts for less on non-iphones.

i will give an example, recently i got a sony ericsson k850i that is 3g and with a 5mp camera with auto focus and flash for free on 12 month contract (im in the uk) i pay £25 a month and i get 1000 free texts and 600 free minutes of calls, i also get unlimited data and 50 mms messages and 50 video call minutes free.

So the total yearly spend is £300 ($600), an iphone 8gb has just been reduced to £169 add the minimum £35 a month tariff and I will have spent £589 ($1180) in a year and then will still have to use it for another 6 months before being able to change phones.

I will also not be able to use mms or video calls, have a lot poorer standard camera and have 2g edge data speeds and have less included texts messages.

Im not sure how anyone could think in Europe that the iphone is a good deal, it isnt and that doesnt make me a hater, the model was just designed for US market which is about 3 years behind

Apr 19, 08 - 07:17 pm Comment from: R

Perhaps the new apps that are due soon will alter things.

haha...the iPhone--3 YEARS BEHIND?!?

Who gives a crap about a 5mp camera on your freaking phone....it's a phone. Get a camera if you want to take really nice pictures.

Plus you fail to mention all the stuff you CAN'T do with your free phone that you CAN do with an iPhone.

Apr 19, 08 - 07:22 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Joe Calzaghe…

Firstly, good luck with your fight tonight!

Secondly, your figures about the N95 may be correct - however does that take into account the appalling failure rate of the N95, especially under Orange. I know two N95 users who are on their third (Orange) and second (Vodafone) unit respectively, because the unit will lock up at the drop at the hat.

This is hardly unique: there's one phone (Windows Mobile) that I can make crash simply be opening and closing its slider mechanism several times quickly.

"If Apple wont cater for these ppl, then the market share will always be low, quit blaming M$ for your own faulty strategy."

Apple doesn't blame MS for anything. Apple caters to people who want high quality, elegant products and are willing to pay the market price.

The last time I checked APPL is doing just great on Wall Street and on Main Street.

Apple sells all it makes and makes money doing it.

'Nuff said.

@gupta

sorry to sound offensive to you but you should read before you post, the main reason given in the above posts for the iphones slightly disappointing sales in europe was that the business model is uncompetitive compared to rivals, some people are also put off by the hardware on the device as really its state of the art software on 3 year old hardware but the business model remains the main reason people have been put off.

02 in the UK are apparently wiping out most of their early profits made on iphones by making their recent discount, they bought more phones from Apple than have sold showing that it hasnt quite met their expectations.

MDN forgot to show its readers this info from the article:
" European mobile executives seemed to have become over-excited by the hype surrounding the iPhone at the time of its US release on the AT&T;network last June.

They had since had to take steps to shift stock on which they would now make a loss in order to clear the shelves for the new 3G iPhone"

"According to a report by another mobile analyst, CCS Insight, last week, sales of iPhones had "slowed significantly" in all the European markets"

iPhone ain´t selling in Europe.
MDN will remove this comment.
What works in the USA doesn´t necessarily work elsewhere. The Apple brand just does not have the same hype in Europe.
Note - there is not one Apple store in Germany. Just lots of dinky hole in the wall retailers that sell everything else, too.

Sorry i think you didnt read the @gupta post, he said the US market is 3 years behind, although it could be argued as i said above that the iphone version 1 is state of the art software on 3 year old hardware. 3g has been rolled out in the UK for 3 years or so now.

And about the camera, it doesnt matter to Americans, it does matter to a lot of europeans, like I said different market different tastes, may need different approaches

whilst i wasnt the original @gupta poster, i notice you failed to respond to the fact that in the UK the iphone even in discounted form can overall cost 600 dollars a year more than a rival, yet not have a decent camera, multiple sms, or mms, or video calling or proper gps

you can even get nokia 95s for free over here

Apr 19, 08 - 07:33 pm Comment from: Brau

Given the progress the iPod went through, this isn't much of a prediction. The iPod started with a halo product then expanded downward into lower price ranges with the Nano and Shuffle. The iPhone will do the same. THose other brands who are dissing the iPhone saying it is non-competitive because it is too expensive are in for a shock when Apple inevitably adds lower end models to their line.

I wonder if we could have MDN's take on apples european iphone business model? why does negative apple news not get reported on here? or when it does spun round white house press officer style

I'd like to say I agree with you 100% on this one, and it's exactly why I'm glad the current iPhone sales model has tanked in Europe. If it had been successful, Nokia, SE, Samsung, LG etc, would all have got a whiff of how they could fleece the consumers out of more money, tied into restrictive contracts and carriers. You yanks might be quite happy to put up with that, but in Europe we are most certainly not.

The iphone is very over priced at this point. By this time the Motorola RAZR was less than half its initial selling price.

By now the iphone should not cost any more than say 150 bucks. This 399 deal is WAY over priced. Its a great phone but in Europe it was priced even higher. Plus as stated, 3G is a big deal there, they have 3G networks that are much faster than here.

hi Brau, but in europe if the top of the range iphone rivals are free, then a lower cost lower specced iphone still wont seem competitive in comparison, it would still work out more expensive than rivals and have less of the compelling features.

Why did AT&T;just spend billions on wireless spectrum? They say it's for a 4G nationwide net that will kick in as soon as we finish moving tv to all digital.

I know of one person who was ecstatic with his N95, loved it, and then it failed due to moisture damage and they won't fix it, after charging a couple hundred pounds to check.

i think you have anyone that says anything that isnt positive as a hater, of course apple can do no wrong in america, macs are selling well as are ipods and iphones, but america isnt the only market that apple sell their products in, it could be doing much better abroad with the iphone, also as consumers we are right to point out when we are getting a poor deal, infact it would appear people in europe have already pointed this out by not buying it.

i think almost all here agree that apple should learn its lesson from the sales-desaster here in europe. 300.000-500.000 phones in the 3 biggest markets in europe (200 million people) in roughly 6 months. call it what you want but i call that a desaster. apple thought they could change the rules of the game. but that game is a bit too big (1,25 billion handsets worldwide in 2008, with nokia selling 1.3 million phones A DAY). so apple, please adopt the business model and let that damn phones be susbsidized. if i get a n95 or lg viety "for free" with a 25 euro contract (including data) no one will buy a phone for 400 euros ($635). and yes these are lesser phones by a wide margin but 400 euros? apple, you must be kidding.

we are talking about here and now in europe not the US 5 years down the line, of course the iphone will catch up hardware wise but in europe consumers are paying twice as much per year for an iphone compared to rival phones, its currently a rip off

No one is going to buy a stupid flip phone, let alone a flip iPhone.

Geez, I'm glad I'm not an analyst, otherwise they'd think I was born retarded

Apr 19, 08 - 08:43 pm Comment from: MCCFR

The Myth…

The publicly stated target for the iPhone is to sell 10M phones in 2008, therefore - so long as that target is achieved - you can't make a statement about Apple's faulty strategy.

In fact, Apple would probably be happy with a mere 50M iPhone units a year when they get to steady state: having 100M phones under an active contract on the exclusive network deal will probably bring in around US$6 BILLION in network commissions alone (100M x $50 per month = $5 billion: take 10% in commission = $500 million. Multiply x 12).

That $6 billion is around 90-95% profit: combined with the profit from handset sales ($1.5 billion per annum), that's around $7 billion which, before the dollar fell into the swamp, would have been enough to make Apple competitive with Nokia without any of Apple's other interests taken into account.

the question is could apple achieve 50m sales using their US sales model, it isnt working that well in europe, and probably wouldnt work well either in japan, korea etc, the main chinese operator refuse to accept the business model, so probably apple will have to adjust and accept making less on each handset, in which case they would need more than 50m sales to make $6 billion

@mccfr

We arent just commenting on apples iphone business model with regard to their sales/profits, as consumers many people in europe feel apple is trying to overcharge them/being greedy, it being 2g hardware just makes it worse

Among the possibilities are flip version ... and a sliding model with a regular qwerty keyboard - as opposed to a touchscreen one," Richards reports.

WRONG! Apple has spent a considerable amount of time and resources making their digital keyboard. And have promoted the benefits of this design over traditional, static keyboards currently being used. They will NOT abandon this model...

"'I think ultimately you going to see multiple versions,' one Asia-based analyst.

WRONG! Apple has never made a multitude of versions of any product. They have always kept it simple, limiting their designs to a handful of products. Each product designed to fill some niche. The iPhone fills the mobile phone market... They don't be making an "iPhone Pro" anytime soon. Apple has always focused on making a product and making it right, so there is no need for 18 versions. They have always been good at keeping things integral and tight.

France's Orange may be next to cut iPhone price, eat losses

is the headline on apple insider right now

on iphone v2 these carriers will seek more favourable terms

Apr 19, 08 - 10:02 pm Comment from: Mo

An awesome UX trumps features and price as far as I'm concerned and I and completely happy with a modest Apple market share for phones.

According to my sources, this story is a load of BS. Apple is not going to add a keyboard. The 3G will be a slightly different size to allow for an extra camera (front facing) and the GPS chip.

Apr 19, 08 - 10:14 pm Comment from: MCCFR

@@MCCFR Why can't people use their own names - Is it that difficult.

Actually, it's not the business model that isn't working for Apple in Europe because a) the average consumer has no idea what that model is and b) they care even less.

What isn't working is a lack of a 3G model, the perceived issue with the non-replaceable battery and the lack of MMS, a full Bluetooth profile and a relatively weak camera (say what you want - I get blinded by camera phones on a regular basis here in the UK, so I think Apple needs to do something on that front).

The other thing that needs to change is the lack of a pay-as-you-go model which is far more pervasive here in the UK than Apple would want to concede.

”The bigger screen thing comes from Apple's flip touch screen patent ma jig. AppleInsider did a story on it a few weeks ago, go read about it.”

Please provide the link, Crabs, otherwise some people may think your suffering another hallucination.

”While I don't know if it's all true, I'd really like this whole thing.”

If you “don't know if it's all true”, what is there to “really like” about “the whole thing”? If something that you wish for is doubtful, what satisfaction do you expect to receive from the improbability of its existence?

”I'd go for the flip version, and that would be so nice if I could use it with any carrier, because the only reason I decided to forgo the iPhone thus far is because of AT&T;.”

Why do you oppose Apple’s choice of AT&T;as carrier for iPhone?

”If not, I might still get an iPhone eventually.”

So, you really don’t care if Apple’s choice of carrier is AT&T;. Therefore, AT&T;is not the “only” reason you haven’t bought an iPhone.

”It's just too enticing, even with its flaws.”

Why “might” you delay buying an iPhone “eventually” if it is presently “too enticing” to restrain yourself, Crabs?
What current iPhone features are so “enticing”?
And Apple makes a product with “flaws” – you don’t say?
What are these glaring “flaws” of which you speak, Crabs?