MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

This isn't a solution for Mac users. The purpose of this is so Windows users can put the software they have on their new Macs and slowly ween them off of it, and onto the Mac versions over time.

Remember they did this a few years ago with OS9 users. It was called Classic.

This is Apple's "security blanket" for Windows users who don't want to get rid of Windows *just yet*... I agree with MDN, let a Windows user use Mac OS X and XP together for 2 weeks, and see which they wind up preferring.

Funny how a new source can distort what this announcement really means... It's not about Mac hardware.. It's about giving consumers no logical reason to purchase anything other than a Mac.

"Nobody "prefers" the Windows operating system"

The girl who works in the shop next to me prefers Windows over OSX. Her co-worker has a powerbook and their desktop is a PC. She always tells me "I hate Macs" every time I come over to fix the PC. I'm sure she's not the only one.

It's not about the OS.

Apple is a hardware company. The end.

It doesn't matter how the Press words it, it WILL be huge whether or not people THINK they prefer WIndows.

When I read about this this morning I thought it was some funny late news from April 1st...I'm now convinced it's genuine!

SJ's grand plan unfolds bit by bit as Gates cowers under the table from the storm of chairs thrown round the office by CEO Ballmer!! Wonderful.

artist:

she probably hates it because she is unfamiliar with it, and that's a fair point. Shes too use to windows and how that OS operates, and the differences can be annoying.

... And, here in lies the problem.

All the news reports make it sound like Apple has caved. "Apple now runs Windows, the world's No. 1 operating system" What will the general public think?

Since this is a beta and will be a feature in Leopard, I wonder if fast user switching will come into play when it is final.

That would be cool showing the cube spin from windows to Mac OS X.

I can finally play counter strike!!

This is Reuters, the respected news organization and they say this:

"The final version of Boot Camp will be available as a feature in the upcoming Mac OS X version 10.5 'Leopard' personal computer."

Leopard isn't a computer it's an OS. Some research, and understanding of what you're writing about would be a good thing here.


I do agree with the reference that it will draw millions of users to the hardware though and I refer the 'learned' gentlemen to the answer I gave earlier:

'This is good news evereyone, calm down.

Mac users will always still buy the Mac, Windows users now have one LESS reason for buying a Windows box. As far a market share numbers go, they can now only go up, not down.

So what if some people will buy an Intel Mac and install Windows on it and never use the Mac OS.

The point is:

1) It will show as a Mac sale on the market share numbers. We get a substantial increase in market share and all that means for increased mind-share. Don't forget Apple make most of their cash from hardware.

2) Apple now have a Windows user, running Windows on a computer that has the possibility of running Mac OSX for NO EXTRA COST.

All Apple have to do now is convince that Windows user to switch to the Mac. This is a LOT easier than it was because now IT WILL COST THEM NOTHING TO DO SO.

How they will do this is up to Steve Jobs, but how about cancelling iTunes for Windows? (just boot into the Mac OS). Apple will release more and more great software for the Mac to entice these IntelMac Windows users to switch.

What's next? Xcode for Windows.

Once Adobe (for instance) have completely ported Photoshop to XCode. Apple will release an update to XCode which will, with one tick box, compile the same app to run on Windows. They'd be stupid not to, as the cost savings for them would be huge. Ditto every other developer.

Once Apple control the development environment for Apple AND Windows, nothing will ever be the same. They've just pulled the rug from under Microsoft's feet.

Steve Jobs (and his cohorts) are absolute genuises."

Nobody prefers hearing the idiotic whinings of Mac fanatics (like MDN editors).

Fans of the platform are sorta stuck with them.

There are some who prefer no computer at all. To each his own.

This will draw those who it will draw. Some still think Apple is all design over substance-- they're completely wrong, but they're not the ones who are ever going to be swayed.

This lets corporate enterprise purchasing departments buy Macs (or will after Leopard ships.) This is huge.

Personally, I'd prefer a near-native speed version of Virtual PC. It's a bit sad Connectix was absorbed by Microsoft and isn't around to for this.

Here's my problem with dual-boot. Its a pain. If you boot into windows, you are unlikely to reboot to OSX to check email. Most people who are not good at computers will only boot into one or the other. And if they boot into windows, what's the point but to sell more macs as windows boxes?

If anyone still thinks Apple is not a "hardware" company, this must change their mind.

If Apple wanted to really get people to use OSX, they would come up with an emulation system for windows programs. That is much more usable than dual boot. Of course, that brings up the problem of OSX losing developers, but at least for usablility, to use OSX for most operations and an emulation for some windows only program is the best solution.

Here's why I think this: I never boot my mac. I hate the startup process, so I don't do it. It's one of the beauties of OSX. Maybe windows users boot daily and are used to the headaches, but I just never do it. And it's a time-waster for me. I may reboot once every two months. I have a windows box, and I use it only for speific purposes. And I never reboot that box either. (though I use it maybe 20 minutes per day) I love Virtual PC, but it is too slow compared to a networked windows box.

So i'm confused as to why Apple would do this, except to sell more boxes. Maybe Dvorak was right. (Did I really just type that? Someone shoot me!)

I am a Mac user who also has a Windows box to run one piece of software. This solves a problem. I will never have to buy another Windows machine, but since I already buy Macs, I won't be increasing Apple's user base. For most Windows users, this won't change anything.

Re: "it's not about the OS."

Cpt. Obvious or Cpt. Oblivious??

All that is needed now is flash memory to enable you to 'flick' between operating systems. Closing down one and rebooting the other can then be done in seconds...

That doesn't change things for me, I already use the best and have no desire to torture myself with Windows.

Think 5 or 10 years from now. Steve Jobs already has.

This is the beginning of the end of Windows dominance.

Does anyone else find it objectionable that this is called a "patch"? The term "patch", when used to describe software, is a very pejorative term. This is not a "patch" to fix a problem, it is a preview of a future expanded use of OS X. Reuters probably should have assigned some one that knew something about computers to this story.

Apple wouldn't do this unless they are so confident that OS X blows XP out of the water. Which, of course, is true. And yeah, it's ALL about the OS!!!

Chris,

You bring up some good points, but please do not give any credibility to Dvorak. Dvorak simply doesn't get it, which is how he came to the flawed conclusion that Apple will abandon OS X and switch to Windows.

How do we know Dvorak's prediction is flawed? Because Apple is, as Jobs has said on many occasions, "the whole widget." The Mac is a combination of the hardware and the software. The iPod is a tight combination of the hardware and software.

Now, seeing as how Apple absolutely refuses to license FairPlay to 3rd parties, do you really think Apple would handle the keys to their future to Microsoft? Does it make b[]ANY sense at all that Apple would depend totally on Microsoft for timely updates to the OS by switching to Windows?

Just because Apple adopted Intel chips doesn't mean Apple is switching to Windows. Intel chips power a lot of other OSes, including many, many variants of Linux, Unix, and Solaris, yet you don't see Dvorak claiming Red Hat is planning on switching to Windows. The only reason he's saying it is to pull the chains of Mac users, and nothing else.

All you have to do is understand that Apple believes fundamentally that unless you control the whole widget, you cannot deliver the kind of trouble-free experience that consumers desire. Dvorak clearly doesn't believe in this philosophy, which is how he can go from a switch to Intel chips to Apple abandoning Mac OS X.

Let's do ourselves a service by kiling that dog of misguided speculation from Dvorak.

For some things I prefer the windows OS. MDN cannot speak for everyone.

You actually have to OWN a new Mac to do this marvelous new thing. For us Mac owners this is sideshow stuff and not much at all. We already know what the mindless millions haven't caught onto yet.

This is Steve fishing for customers of his hardware and eventually his software. If the reviews are good then people will switch and eventually also experience the magic of Mac. Got'em hook line and sinker.

If it doesn't work then he just stops make the programme and takes it out of the OS and put it down to a nice try.

Oh shit.

The end of OS for Apple?

Why would a software developer need to create an OSX version of their product?

Soon the only company making OSX native software is Apple?

Soon people will buy an Apple just to run Windows software?

We will have to wait and see.

I wish I was a bug on the wall inside Microsoft HQ today....

I bet there are chairs flying all over the place

I was considering buying a new Mac this Christmas because I have to run a few microsoft only apps at work and was praying this would happen. Now instead of just buying a copy of Leopard, I will buy a new Intel iMac. And not some cheap Dell just to run a few Windows apps.

MDN: Nobody "prefers" the Windows operating system.

You are right I do.

As much of a bombshell as this is, I would have preferred Apple to have made the BootCamp/Leopard/XP OS boot-up exactly like the Parallels on-the-fly OS switching, rather than boot into one OS or the other.

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/9127/

Imagining burning a presentation DVD in iDVD while running AutoCAD in the background, and switching between the two.

And did the Parallels announcement force Apples hand in announcing BootCamp this soon?

MDN word: stood - here I am, stood at the crossroads of a technological revolution...

I wish I were a fly on the wall inside Michael Dells office today.

can anyone say panic

or at Microsoft HQ....

Probably chairs flying all over the place....

Obvious question:

How does this convince developers to keep porting Windows-only apps to the Mac, when now there is no reason?

I'm sure Apple must have thought this through, unless they're attempting to affect some other market issue...

I agree dual boot is a pain, but look at this.

1. I think it will put a thorn in Vista......most are going to stay XP for several years.

2. Best Buy, etc. can actually understand how to describe a Mac......It can do Windows.....Uhh.

3. More people will see Mac on desktops and laps around the world. More you see....the greater the perception of a good computer (to the Masses)

4. Wow, schools must now be confused!!!! IT guys running around yelling......how do you stops the MACS!

5 Tech people will have to deal with "should we use OS X until you fix the viruses?" Oh, that should go over well!

6. I know Windows XP, so at least I can do graphics on the computer----oh, Dell....Be veery veeery quiet, theres a hunter in the pixals!!!

Can anyone name more? Just throwing a few out with some humor.

This is great - NO OTHER computer manufacturer will be able to sale windows pcs that can do this.

Yet again, Apple is thinking 'out of the box'.

I bet the guys at DELL are crying on their balance sheets.

LOL!

Perhaps they could incorporate some type of timer into where, for every hour spent using Windows, the user had to spend half an hour in OS X. That way, people would be forced to see how great OS X is, and by my calculations, they should be done with Windows after about 20 minutes.

Michael Dell: "Bill, have you heard the news about Boot Camp?"
Bill Gates: "My machine crashed again but after I wiped it clean and started over I heard the news."
MD: "So, what are you going to do about it?"
BG: "Not a thing, I'm going to sell a butt load of software to the millions of folks that aren't going to buy your cheap crap anymore."
MD: "What? I thought we had a deal. I've stayed loyal to you and Intel and now I'm getting screwed."
BG: "Yeah, well too bad. I have my own problems. My idiots can't get Vista out the door. That God Jobs came along. He is going to do more to sell old versions of XP than your sorry ass ever did."
MD: "F*ck you!, I'm gonna...."
BG: "Gonna what? You have no backup plan you idiot. I've got more money than I'll ever need and Jobs seling my ancient software. I'm set until we finally get Vista out the door in 2010. [noise in background] Ballmer, put down that chair and go put on a dry shirt..."
click...

MIcrosoft doesn't lose anything with this, in fact they gain, and I doubt the chairs have been moved much. In the short term [providing (until) their software dominance doesn't erode] they will make out, as people will need to go out and buy a version of windows to install.

The average person looking at buying a cheap windows box isn't going to buy a wonderful "mac" at a higher cost, just to then go and buy a standalone version of whatever version of windows is available. This availability of BootCamp, will not get to many converters, but it will get some.

The naivete that everyone needs a MacOS is just that. People do prefer windows over macs for whatever reason. I frankly don't want to have to listen to people bragging about how wonderful the Mac is, when they just started using it. Heck, I been using it for 30 years, so I know.

Now when everyone starts writing native software for the MacOS, then things will definitely start changing.

This is a brilliant move and fantastic news for people like me, who are on the verge of becoming Mac users (and ex-Windows users). If I can dual boot Windoze on a Mac, I can forget one of the last big worries about switching to Mac: that there would be Windows apps I'd sorely miss. Now I can dual-boot OS X and Windows, use OS X as the main OS and occassionally use Windows when I really need it (gaming perhaps, not that I play games that much).

Excellent!!!

The AP did a better write up:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060405/ap_on_hi_te/apple_software_4

Not even a moron in a hurry would prefer Windows!

Seriously I think this is a very significant move. Not sure if I like it though.

flashxl said: "I frankly don't want to have to listen to people bragging about how wonderful the Mac is, when they just started using it. Heck, I been using it for 30 years, so I know."

Sad, sad perspective you have.

Apple Mac OSX is not a snotty nosed, exclusive, closed-order club. It's inclusive and welcomes new members. You are in a minority of none with that view.

"Most people who are not good at computers will only boot into one or the other."

Yeah, but they're the types who are least likely to buy a Mac, then go to all the trouble of buying a shrinkwrapped copy of Windows and install Boot Camp.

I don't think Microsoft will be too upset. It means potentially more sales of Windows, and reports have suggested they've been collaborating with Apple on this anyway. (There's still Virtual PC, or an equivalent built into Leopard, to come, remember...)

To those who think that booting into Windows (and back again) would be a pain:

Ya think Apple isn't aware of that? Right now, in its beta form, you do have to reboot entirely to switch systems, but I'll betcha my girlfriend's new Miata that when Leopard comes out it will be pretty much seamless. If not the rotating cube effect to make the switch, at least they could allow Windows to boot, then put it into hibernation, and then activate it when called upon. What's that, 10 seconds tops? And when Windows is running, the Mac side is asleep. But it's gonna be cooler than that, I'm sure.

"So i'm confused as to why Apple would do this, except to sell more boxes. Maybe Dvorak was right. (Did I really just type that? Someone shoot me!)"

No, Dvorak was not right. I understand your concerns but the situation is simple for Apple: it only adds sales.

Guys like me will *never* use Windows. Apple doesn't worry about me. Some people will *never* pay a nickel more than they have to for hardware. Apple doesn't care about those guys, either.

What we are looking at is the great number of folks who are willing to pay for a little more value and have to particular allegiance to a certain manufacturer, i.e. the *vast majority* of computer buyers.

The folks who are going to boot into Windows and stay there were *never* going to buy a Mac in the first place and that's the key. So does Boot Camp mean more adoption for OS X? Maybe...some at least.

I firmly believe that folks who are exposed to OS X will *choose* OS X over Windows, at least eventually.

But even if they don't, Boot Camp makes a hardware sale possible that simply wasn't before. Again the key is that someone who is going to go all Windows was not going to buy a Mac in the first place (at least not before today), so OS X loses nothing.

Each to their own. I know plenty of talented, intelligent, very computer literate people who *do* prefer Windows for a whole variety of reasons. To dismiss 96% (or whatever large percentage you choose to cite) of the computer using population as stupid or naiive actually says more about *you* than it does those 96%. This is a smart move by Apple. I, for one, will continue to use MacOS as my OS of choice but I think it's a great move to allow other people their choice too.

Installed Windows XP on my MacBook Pro using BootCamp. Worked perfectly and it's fast!

Initial shortcomings:
No way to right click without a mouse attached.
No way to hit Control+Alt+Delete without an external keyboard since there's no way to type RightDelete (no, Fn doesn't do it).

The Windows partition shows up under Mac OS X because I formatted it as Fat32, so I can share files between the OSes. If I get tired of seeing the Windows partition in OS X, I just drag it to the trash to unmount it.

Office 2003 Pro corporate edition installed with no errors and I was able to connect to an Exchange server in Outlook 2003.

Startup Disk control panel that gets installed in Windows does everything the Mac version does, including the ability to enable Target Disk Mode.

What about all those DRM movies, will they run on a Mac. What about Windoze MCE. Game over for Dull and others.... Bet HP wished they were still selling ipods, dumb asses.

The only people who prefer windows are those that have never used a Mac or never used one until they were totally warped from years of using the bass-ackward Windows.
For those who think that this is going to generate any revenue in Redmond, wake up! People will use a copy of XP that they already have or they will call up the buddy next door and borrow his disk. There are only a few million copies of the XP cow-patty lying around!
I agree with many here that the big story is that many of the lemmings who THINK they prefer Windoze will buy Macs and eventually migrate to OSX.

Looks like Bill will be getting an iMac this Christmas after all.

phone conversation... you are very funny!!!

Please write more

Boot camp will not draw millions of new Mac users. That's just flat out rediculous. "Regular" PCs are much cheaper, people will continue to buy them. You either stay with Windows or switch to a Mac, Joe A. Citizen will not spend the extra money on a Mac and dual boot. It's not going to happen. This will fail. A few Mac fantics will do it but that's it. I love my Macs but I have NO interest in doing Windows on a Mac. NONE.

This is a yawner IMHO....