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Mon, Oct 13, 2008 - 03:33 PM EDT — AAPL: 108.2056 (+11.4056, +11.78%) | NASDAQ: 1794.17 (+144.66, +8.77%)

RIM engineers call touchscreen BlackBerry ‘Apple Killer’

Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 11:54 AM EDT

"R.I.M. may have trouble dominating the [smartphone] market’s next phase. Once the exclusive domain of e-mail-obsessed professionals, smartphones are now prized by consumers who want easy access to the Web, digital music and video even more than an omnipresent connection to their in-boxes," Brad Stone reports for The New York Times.

"Since the iPhone went on sale last summer, amid long lines of shoppers and media adulation, the contours of the smartphone market have begun to shift rapidly toward consumers. An industry once characterized by brain-numbing acronyms and droning discussions about enterprise security is now defined by buzz around handset design, video games and mobile social networks," Stone reports.

"That means R.I.M., which has historically viewed big corporations and wireless carriers as its bedrock customers, needs to alter its DNA in a hurry," Stone reports. "While business is booming in Waterloo, analysts are raising an important question about R.I.M.’s future: Can a company that defined mobile e-mail for a generation of thumb-jockeys with bad posture also dominate the new consumer market for smartphones?"

"At the end of last year, BlackBerry had a 40 percent share of the United States smartphone market, down from 45 percent at the end of 2006, thanks largely to the 17.4 percent share the iPhone grabbed in its first six months," Stone reports.

"In March, Mr. Jobs announced that Apple would take the rare step of licensing Microsoft’s corporate e-mail technology, to allow iPhones to connect directly to business computers — a dagger aimed at the heart of R.I.M.’s strength in the corporate market. In Apple’s quarterly conference call last week, Apple executives said that one-third of Fortune 500 companies were interested in giving iPhones to their employees," Stone reports.

Apple, meanwhile, in an effort to further increase its appeal to consumers, is also expected to introduce a new 3G version of the iPhone in June, which will work on speedier wireless networks and may further attract a new segment of customers to the iPhone in the United States and abroad," Stone reports.

RIM is working on a new BlackBerry, one that will feature a touchscreen and also a physical keyboard. The device "will have elegant curves suggestive of the iPhone," Stone reports.

MacDailyNews Take: An iPhone case look-alike with a "touchscreen" that is not a Multi-Touch UI will not threaten iPhone.

Stone continues, "There's a reason that R.I.M. is averse to the iPhone’s glass pad. 'I couldn’t type on it and I still can’t type on it, and a lot of my friends can’t type on it,' says Mike Lazaridis, R.I.M.’s co-chief executive and technological visionary. 'It’s hard to type on a piece of glass.'"

MacDailyNews Take: No, actually it isn't hard at all to type on a virtual predictive, auto-correcting keyboard, as any iPhone owner will tell you. RIM is trying to position their devices, that are festooned with plastic buttons that are always in the way whether they are in use or not, vs. the iPhone.

Stone continues, "Despite his critique of the iPhone, he does not dismiss the possibility that R.I.M. may itself one day sell a touch-screen phone, aimed specifically at consumers without the e-mail demands of BlackBerry’s core users. Indeed, two independent developers writing software for coming R.I.M. devices say that a touch-screen BlackBerry is in the works, and that R.I.M. engineers privately refer to it as the A.K. — for 'Apple Killer.'"

Apple is "trying to dislodge the carriers from the nexus of the North American wireless market. Unlike other phone makers in the United States, Apple sells iPhones from its own stores and has negotiated relatively stingy contracts with the carriers, in exchange for limited periods of exclusivity," Stone reports. Jim Balsillie, R.I.M.’s other co-chief executive says, "'We are sort of polite and amiable and we gently interrelate with the carriers and try to find compatibility,' Mr. Balsillie said. 'It may be a better strategy to fight the carrier. We may be wrong. The carrier may get disintermediated, in which case we fade with them.'"

"In a survey this year of 3,600 professionals by ChangeWave, a research company, 54 percent of BlackBerry users said they were very satisfied with their devices," Stone reports. "Even so, the BlackBerry was a distant second in the survey: the comparable figure for the iPhone was 79 percent."

MacDailyNews Take: And those 54 percent had yet to touch an iPhone. RIM is in decline. Apple is ascendent.

Full article here.

MacDailyNews Take: There are too many iPhone developers working with an excellent iPhone SDK with access to a $100 million (and that's just the initial amount) venture capital fund for RIM to adequately compete. RIM is already getting killed; just look at the market share that iPhone 1.0 has already taken. RIM will continue to lose market share to Apple regardless of the number of fake iPhones based on old technology that RIM rolls out. As with the iPod, the only real "iPhone Killer" is the next-gen Apple iPhone.

[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader "Mike in Helsinki" for the heads up.]

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Apr 27, 08 - 11:55 am Comment from: Wandering joe

R.I.M. is pretty close to R.I.P. if you ask me.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:07 pm Comment from: hagar57

Okay, bottomline, he's saying that touchscreen is very bad, but once they have done the development and negotiated around the patents Apple holds, they'll offer one, too. WTF? Desperation! Apple caught them with their pants down.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:08 pm Comment from: tt

okay, RIM is shooting apple in the foot with this one here is why...

all the die hard blackberry fanboys are going to get the new model, and hate it... and then they are going to tell themselves that the iphone must work the same way since the keyboard is on the screen...

Apple needs to make an iphone with the keyboard built in, ... they dont.. but people are stupid... so they do... sorry..

Apr 27, 08 - 12:11 pm Comment from: Gabriel

"[…] 'It may be a better strategy to fight the carrier. We may be wrong. The carrier may get disintermediated, in which case we fade with them.'"

…er, “disintermediated”? Could you translate that to English please, Mr. RIM-person?

And do these companies not realize that they need to stop using variations on the phrases “iPod Killer”, “iTunes Killer”, etc.? The fact that none of these “Apple Killers” have even remotely succeeded thus far only makes these people look foolish. Just by using the phrase “Apple Killer”, I reckon they’re already conjuring images of failure in peoples’ minds.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:18 pm Comment from: Mad Mac Maniac

In March, Mr. Jobs announced that Apple would take the rare step of licensing Microsoft’s corporate e-mail technology...

OH GOD IT'S THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF APPLE!!!

Next M$ will make hardware requirements to use THIER email system and start dictating the demise of Apple.

Just like Intel has dictated the end of Apple using x86 based processors.

Apple went and bought a processor company....

you see...

Glossy screens cause eventual eye strain, eye muscle fatigue and premature need for glasses.

Don't buy glossy screens, TV's, computers etc that you'll be staring at for long periods of time.

Glare screens are a pain in the arse.

You have been warned. And EFI is a backdoor into our computers, brought on by Intel and Microsoft...

...the evil Wintel allliance...

May the Force be with you, always...

Apr 27, 08 - 12:24 pm Comment from: K

I need a phone with a real keyboard (not a virtual one). I've tried the virtual keyboard on the iPhone and found it uncomfortable to use for typing. Maybe if the iPhone came with a stylus and virtual notepad application, but it would have to be a little bit bigger.

I also doubt that the iPhone is going to kill the RIM considering what a large costumer base they have.

>>MacDailyNews Take: There are too many iPhone developers working with an excellent iPhone SDK with access to a $100 million (and that's just the initial amount) venture capital fund for RIM to adequately compete. RIM is already getting killed; just look at the market share that iPhone 1.0 has already taken. RIM will continue to lose market share to Apple regardless of the number of fake iPhones based on old technology that RIM rolls out. As with the iPod, the only real "iPhone Killer" is the next-gen Apple iPhone.

Great, but Apple's itunes store is the only distributor of those applications. Anyone who makes their apps available at the online store needs to give their source code to Apple. A lot of companies aren't going to be willing to do that even with a private section of the itunes store.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:30 pm Comment from: Homie

I never much liked my Blackberry. Traded it for an iPhone a month or so after they came out. I very much like my iPhone. RIM could not POSSIBLY win me back.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:35 pm Comment from: zachcube

I love my iPhone and love the virtual keyboard. Like anything "different" it just takes a few minutes to get the hang of it. Apple is frickin awesome! My wife loves her iPhone too. If you don't like it don't use it and good luck with whatever you get. The iPhone is the answer to my needs and honestly it is a great product.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:41 pm Comment from: qka

What, no MDN mention of iCal'ing this?

Apr 27, 08 - 12:41 pm Comment from: Dan The Man

I love Apple and am heavily invested, and have used Macs since 1984. I have a Touch as I am in Canada. Since I am in the wireless industry and use a Blackberry daily, I really know the difference. And I am sorry, if i had to type all day on an iPhone I would go crazy. They do everything better than a Blackberry, except text. Period. If you type slowly then the iPhone is fine, and that is a good chunk of users. But for people like me typing 40wpm on the little keyboard, I could never see changing. I make way more errors on an iPhone and it takes much more to fix them.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:43 pm Comment from: Macromancer

Wait... I thought the RIM people said that the iPhone touch screen was stupid and people wouldn't want to use it. Um, now I'm REALLY confused.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:45 pm Comment from: Jeremy Avalon

@K:

Obviously you're a bit out of the loop on how software is distributed. Selling your apps through iTunes requires you to give them as much source as you'd have to give to Best Buy for a boxed copy. In other words, ZERO. You give them the built executable and they sell it.

@tt: The "die hard blackberry fans [sic]" are going to love the next BlackBerry regardless of its flaws and hate the iPhone regardless of its merit. Have you heard of Stockholm Syndrome? I'm sure MDN has referred to it a number of times when discussing Windows.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:46 pm Comment from: Macromancer

Mr Lazaridis is the president of the "No Thumbs" club

Apr 27, 08 - 12:47 pm Comment from: MacBill

Forget the marketshare... take a look at the user satisfaction ratings for the Blackberry vs. the iPhone. Something like 80% or higher for the iPhone, and hovering around 50% for the Blackberry. I've used a Blackberry before and it definitely has a tortured user interface.

Apr 27, 08 - 12:55 pm Comment from: Steve P.

R.I.M.
Rundown insufficient mobiles

BABAAABA, cough, BAAABAABAAABAABAABABABABABABABABA!

I will rule the world!

Apr 27, 08 - 01:07 pm Comment from: R2

The only problem with the iPhone keyboard is when you encounter everything outside Safari cause we STILL don't have the universally applied landscape keyboard. It would make a huge difference if we could use it for everything.

iPhone 2.0 better have the universal landscape keyboard, man. I'll raise hell if it doesn't. That shitty Sprint iPhone ripoff by Samsung will have it and there's no reason why the iPhone can't.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:08 pm Comment from: DJ

"disintermediated"

What?

Note to all RIMsuits -- use market-speak like that and you deserve to lose bigtime.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:14 pm Comment from: NormM

@Gabriel A lot of people seem to like to use the word "disintermediated" in connection with Internet businesses. Usually they mean that you get rid of the middle man, as in buying music from the artist without paying the record company. I don't think you can actually remove the cellphone carrier, but I think Mr. RIM means the carrier becomes a dumb pipe.

@K Apple has made arrangements to let businesses distribute their own apps to their iPhone users.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:19 pm Comment from: chair-throwing, simian-like CEO

"R.I.M. engineers privately refer to it as the A.K. — for 'Apple Killer.'""

That tells you all you need to know.

This company had such a high opinion of itself, and now it's own engineers are tacitly admitting that Apple are miles in front. One wonders if they've even grasped how far in front; but the point is that they know Apple is.

You don't speak of "killing" the also-rans.

"RIM is working on a new BlackBerry, one that will feature a touchscreen and also a physical keyboard. ..."

Oh, God. They didn't get the point? Or, more likely, they lack the technological means to do what Apple's done.

"The device 'will have elegant curves suggestive of the iPhone,' Stone reports."

That is embarrassing, just embarrassing.

It'll look somewhat like it even if it doesn't work as well ... like those fake Rolex watches I keep getting spam about.

Killer -- give over. About as much of an "iPhone killer" as all those crappy "iPod killers" the likes of Zen were coming out with.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=zen+"jim+allchin"&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Anyone who says they've got a "killer" of some other product has already lost.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:20 pm Comment from: Hm...

\begin{quote}
Len Ellis, one of the wisest men in this industry [marketing], declaimed from the podium, “Best practices are
yesterday’s news. Tell me about emerging practices.”
\end{quote}

Apr 27, 08 - 01:23 pm Comment from: Metryq

Those glass screens are bad because they can break in an earthquake.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:23 pm Comment from: NCG598

Played with a lost Blackberry that we received at work. I found the keyboard awkward, had problems hitting the proper keys, and the feel was horrible. So, goes to show you that once you are familiar with a product- you are comfortable with it.
I prefer the glass pad and it works well with two finger typing, just learn how to hold your fingers and the brain fixes the rest.
Found the interface confusing and enjoyed the iPhone GUI much better. Here is where the iPhone is really different. Much faster to use the iPhone as well as the clarity of the text. Just light years ahead of the Blackberry.
So choose what you like and the rest will feel different. But keyboard or lack of will always feel different until one adjusts to it.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:27 pm Comment from: RIM

At the end RIM is going to win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why? coz you can use RIM's BB anywhere and with any network.

@ MDN: Shutup and first talk about iphone's european sales.

iPhone will win only if apple sells it unlocked.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:28 pm Comment from: Eric

“disintermediated”? What gibberish is this? Is it Canadian for "When we feel like we're getting the shaft"?

Apr 27, 08 - 01:32 pm Comment from: John

What is this obsession with email? My iPhone does email fantastically, and even my old Treo models (the 600 and 650) were perfectly adequate email machines.

I understand the whole concept of push email, but if you set your mobile to check every 10 minutes (or even 5 if you're really nuts) you can be very close to real-time without the need for push email.

Are there really that many people out there who need to know something _right now_ and can't wait a whopping 5 minutes for it? If so, please let me understand why. I'm not being at all sarcastic here: I really would like to understand what user population needs absolutely real-time email.

TIA

Apr 27, 08 - 01:38 pm Comment from:

Apr 27, 08 - 01:39 pm Comment from: Karl Rove

Me likey!!!
Me wants to puts thousand island dressing on Hilllary Clinton and has TowerTone lickings it offfff her!!!

Apr 27, 08 - 01:39 pm Comment from: ron

These RIM devices look like a Pakistani bus, festooned (good word MDN) with all those decorations, doo-dads and buttons; in all shapes, colors and sizes.

Question - Six Africans were carrying a big box on their shoulders. What were they doing?

Answer - BlackBerrying.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:41 pm Comment from: John

Oh, and on the real vs virtual keys, I think both have their strong points. The real advantage of the iPhone (and one people have to learn to trust in) is the software prediction/correction. The true test of the matter (much as I hate to admit I do this, I do) is that I can type a response one-handed without looking at the screen while driving and it comes out 95% correct in the end. That's a pretty strong statement for how good the keyboard+software is (and yes, I am TERRIBLE for doing this--guilty as charged).....

Apr 27, 08 - 01:42 pm Comment from: Silent majority

Ron, you're a f*cking racist pig.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:51 pm Comment from: tsc

@ Silent majority: I agree with you.

Ron, is a f*cking racist pig.

Apr 27, 08 - 01:55 pm Comment from: gzero

You Blackberry fans make it sound like the keyboard is so great. Fact is, typing on ANY such a device -be it Blackberry, Windows Mobile, Symbian or iPhone OSX- generally sucks.

I've recently got to spend some time with a BB Curve, and compared to typing on the iPhone, the BB was not so good at all. Typing on an old Sony-Ericsson P910i was better, and IMHO neither was better than the iPhone. Maybe I'm just biased because I'm used to typing text on an iPhone.

Oh BTW ron; you are a racist a**hole. Your mother must be proud.

Apr 27, 08 - 02:03 pm Comment from: ron

You politically correct lemmings are hilarious.
If I had changed the words from Africans to 'Anglos', and BlackBerrying, to 'Putting white people down', no-one would have written anything. Touchy, touchy.

Apr 27, 08 - 02:05 pm Comment from: ron

Of course the joke wouldn't have fitted with the subject.

Apr 27, 08 - 02:09 pm Comment from: The Freeman = Kennyy921

LMAO!!!!!! THATS LAUGHABLE :D !! LMAO! NO COMMENTS.

Apr 27, 08 - 02:10 pm Comment from: The Freeman

HAHAHAHAH I WANT TO SEE RIM PLAY MUSIC AND VIDEOS ON THIER BLACKBERRY'S I ALSO WANT TO SEE THEM RUN OS X LMAO!

Apr 27, 08 - 03:35 pm Comment from: Hm...

@ ron

The fact is, you didn't write 'Anglos,' you intentionally tried to make a racist joke. It wasn't funny in any context and it's inappropriate on this website. Behave yourself.

Apr 27, 08 - 04:13 pm Comment from: Camel's Milk Drinker

Ball Silly once declared that he had no idea what an iphone was, he did not need to know it or get hold of one to understand what all the who-ha was all about.

We warned him that in order for him to win a battle he needed to understand his enemy from within, but is it a surprise to find that a man named after silly balls is actually silly enough to drop the ball?

He & his company have taken their eyes of the ball & are now trying to convince the world that they had their yes on it all the time.

He should Drink some Camel's milk, the vile stench he farts out could help lubricate his balls from his scrotum so that his cohorts might be enabled to keep their eyes on them!

As for ron, your pathetic excuse of trying to fit your racist remarks into a facist joke beggars belief. People like you need to realise that your crap stinks as much everyone else's crap. All that does is to make you human not super-human!

Apr 27, 08 - 04:14 pm Comment from: HMCIV

R.I.M. is pretty close to R.I.P. if you ask me.

In fact I believe the only separation is...
NO

Apr 27, 08 - 04:18 pm Comment from: Camel's Milk Drinker

CORRECTION: eyes not yes.

@ron, If you think that I have been unfair to you & misunderstood you, could you apologise over your sick joke? That would go along way to erasing my impression of you.

Apr 27, 08 - 04:31 pm Comment from: ragarcia

ron,

Don't let these idiots get to you. Its not like you said 'blackmen from the hood'.

I bet if you would have gone with Dominican or Colombian or Bolivian nobody would have cared. In fact, willing to bet most don't even know, really know (geographically), where the people with said nationalities are from.

Apr 27, 08 - 04:32 pm Comment from: MDN Sanctimoniously Moralistic Society

Dear Ron,

You have offended the MDN moralist society by posting a message with clear disregard toward persons of darker skin coloration. Of course, you may use profanity with impunity here at MDN and you may post other slurs against anyone else that offend common decency and civility - just as long as you don't mention skin color. Understood?

Hypocritically yours,

MDNSMS

Apr 27, 08 - 04:46 pm Comment from: ron

I apologize from the heart of my bottom, to anyone who thought there was ANY racism in my joke. There wasn't meant to be, I was the making a play on the word 'blackberry'. Hangs head.

Apr 27, 08 - 04:49 pm Comment from: MobileAdmin

MDN and the lot of you still don't *GET IT*.

As a consumer device, iphone is nice. Nice GUI, pretty much everything a consumer would want on a device and yeah for lite texting, email. Perfect. Intergration with Itunes and future Apps makes it a nice package.

That being said it goes against ~everything~ I would want having to control 1000+ iphones. I don't want to install Itunes, I could careless about how great the web is on it. For now 99% of usage is tied to Exchange functionality. I have not have one of our internal developers ask about getting the SDK, heck they don't even develope for the 2000+ blackberrys we have. For most large companies they are looking to extend their current applications and exchange. They want this secure as possible and Blackberry VIA the enterprise server can policy enforce every single aspect of the device. Even with OS 2.0 (now testing beta 4) your options are basic with ActiveSync. It's meeting the minimum that Windows Mobile does.

I love to see the boundaries for mobility pushed, Apple is doing some cool things with the iphone but a large part of their business model is lifestyle driven. For now the devices are too expensive, not as secure as Blackberry, shorter battery life, locked to 1 carrier and due to Itunes a hassle to setup and deploy.

I have used my iphone since last year and cannot stand typing on it. I make way too many errors and at the end of day put it in a drawer with the other lot of devices I get to check out and go happy with my blackberry because I know it works.

I think you are going to see a large portion of businesses stick with Blackberry for all these stated observations and have pockets of iphones to keep in on their plans sorta like linux.

Now if Apple dropped their control, made setup totally wireless without a need for Itunes, unlocked it for any carrier (which is difficult as Sprint, Verizon) are not on GPRS/EDGE etc., lowered the price. Likely you will see the current 8gb as the low end a two 3G models based on capacity.

Expect RIM to annouce many new things May 12th-16th at their yearly wireless event in Orlando.

Apr 27, 08 - 04:51 pm Comment from: Camel's Milk Drinker

It is a sad fact of life that individuals who focus their lives on making fun of ethnic or racial stereo typing have their heads tucked up so far up their arse's that they cannot fart for risk of blowing their heads up like a balloon!

The end result is that they think that the view of the World they percieve is the only one. If others do not see it their way, then they don't know, so they have to be told that they don't know.

How far has the internet permeated our World geographically speaking?

How many people have access to the internet across the World?

How can you tell where comments such as these are coming from?

And yet you have such a small mind as to advise a sick racist bastard not to mind because we do not know where Countries are located geographically on our own World!

Do you work for M$? I could at least begin to excuse your self righteous bets as a result of work pressure from a success of poor productivity.

Drink some Camel's milk, the whiff of your own farting would be enough to set your brain free from such awfull gaffes!

Apr 27, 08 - 04:51 pm Comment from: MobileAdmin

and btw all the latest Blackberry models **CAN** play video and music. Not as elegant as an ipod/iphone but it's there.

Apr 27, 08 - 04:54 pm Comment from: Camel's Milk Drinker

Thanks ron!!! I know where heart truly is even though you say it is in your bottom!

Now that is what I call funny!!!

Apr 27, 08 - 04:56 pm Comment from: Camel's Milk Drinker

ps @ ron, DO NOT DRINK CAMEL'S MILK, you may just fart your heart out!!! ha! ha! haaa!!!

Apr 27, 08 - 05:02 pm Comment from: ron

Camels - - - 'World they percieve is the only one'.

'i' before 'e' except after 'c'. I'm a word guy.

Apr 27, 08 - 05:07 pm Comment from: ron

It's apostrophe 's' in Camel's Milk, only if you are writing about a particular camel. Apparently the one which f-rts a great deal.

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Mon, Oct 13, 2008 - 03:33 PM EDT — AAPL: 108.2056 (+11.4056, +11.78%) | NASDAQ: 1794.17 (+144.66, +8.77%)

RIM engineers call touchscreen BlackBerry ‘Apple Killer’

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