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anyway you post it, it all sounds like horsesh*t from either side.

Obviously iPhone sales are doing very well. That's because it's a great piece of technology. However I think it would be considerably better with flash. As it is now, the Safari browser it uses is unequivocally incomplete. At the same time, I don't want to use Adobe's PDF renderer on the iPhone.

Mar 06, 08 - 10:22 am Comment from: Ampar

"sounds like horsesh*t"

I'm not familiar with that sound.
Is it ker-plop or more of a thud?

Mar 06, 08 - 10:28 am Comment from: Cubert

I thought Adobe had the patent and you had to license it from them. Does Apple use a open source renderer for OS X?

Mar 06, 08 - 10:30 am Comment from: jjjj

of course it works on the iPhone, that's why Steve is being quoted as saying Flash is "too slow" - he's probably hating the flash experience on his iPhone right now.

Yea and I got a note from someone who says Scoble's just trolling for hits.

The lack of Flash is hurting iPhone sales by at least one.

This is utter bullshit.

Of course it is already working on an iPhone in the lab ... How else would Jobs know Flash is shite on an iPhone?

Jobs won't play games by insisting Flash is wrong for iphone for petty negotiation reasons then turn around and say its ok after all.

This rumor monger is a clueless FUD jackass.

Anyway it sounds Ampar, it still leaves a stink lingering in the air for everyone to decide who left it...

Mar 06, 08 - 10:33 am Comment from: Cubert

But, Ampar, the real question is, "If a horse shits in the woods and there is no one around to hear it, does it still make a sound?"

The answer - of course it does, you jackass!

And, it sounds more like a ker-plop than a thud.

Horse Sh*t or politics. Sometimes I get confused between the two

Mar 06, 08 - 10:36 am Comment from: Tommy Boy

Umm, what Jobs said was that Flash Lite doesn't work, and full Flash eats battery life. Which I translated into: "We've tried both on the iPhone and neither met our quality standards." So of course Apple has Flash working in the labs. What we need is for Adobe to come up with an iPhone optimized version.

This makes sense. There's no other good reason I've heard why SJ would leave gaping holes in our iphone browser experience where all the flash content should be.

Let SJ concentrate on improving something as basic as email deletion and long pauses when deleting on the iphone before publicly complaining about Flash.

Mar 06, 08 - 10:38 am Comment from: JAYGEE

Come on Adobe, stick to your guns and don't let Steve Jobs get his own way all the time!

let me begin by stating that i'm a Mac user and fan of apple products. however, my concern is that steve jobs is getting more annoying with each passing day. to name a few of my gripes: (1) he's got the biggest ego in the world, (2) he insults people most recently at the apple shareholder meeting, (3) he backdated options at both apple and pixar, (4) he hid his cancer from the company and the "owners" of apple ... the shareholders (5) he tells a person off at macworld 2008 when they ask to take a <a >photo </a>with him

at the end of the day, STEVE JOBS IS A PRICK

Mar 06, 08 - 10:43 am Comment from: Grifterus

Time for Apple to buy Adobe!

"I thought Adobe had the patent and you had to license it from them. Does Apple use a open source renderer for OS X?"

The PDF format is fully open and well documented. For OS X, Apple simply wrote their own PDF engine.

Mar 06, 08 - 10:47 am Comment from: WindozeKiller

Dear Steve,

Please just buy Adobe already. Then you will own Flash AND the PDF format. Then you can make Flash what it SHOULD be. You could also give away CS3 with Mac Pro's and double the price for Windoze sufferers. When CS4 is ready, make it Mac only.

I can dream, can't I?

Maybe Job's is looking to spend some of that surplus cash Apple has... a Adobe buyout wouldn't be such a bad deal!

I agree with Dallas. Current examples abound.

Apple' PDF renderer is not what I'd call the world's greatest.

Have any of you had this experience?
You prepare a file in a page layout app like InDesign or Illustrator (or even Word for god's sake)...and then attach it..

The pdf PREVIEW shown in the attachment is often WRONG...and can even carry over to the final document once sent. Yup...it affects the attachment.

Troll article. Wouldn't mind seeing the flash go off. And stay off.

Mar 06, 08 - 10:51 am Comment from: grok

"...at the end of the day, STEVE JOBS IS A PRICK"

Yes, but he's our prick. And as such, he should be cared for, washed periodically, powdered, and taken out in emergencies. And if he has to take a beating now and again, I'm sure he'll be up to it.

Scoble's full of crap, and not for the first time.

-jcr

"Please just buy Adobe already. "

There is nothing that Adobe has that can't be developed in-house at Apple for a hell of a lot less than it would cost to buy Adobe. I'm not just talking the cash here, but the tremendous distraction of integrating two companies of that size.

-jcr

" For OS X, Apple simply wrote their own PDF engine."

Well, I wouldn't say "simply". It was quite a bit of work, and Apple came up with the best PDF renderer there is.

-jcr

Depends on the size of the horse.

Mar 06, 08 - 10:59 am Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

I suspect Adobe is still pissed that Apple upgraded Preview to do many things that Acrobat Standard does. The problem for Adobe is that Preview for Leopard costs $0 and Acrobat Standard costs $300. The choice for people who need to assemble PDF documents, like me, is easy.

Now to the people who think Jobs is a Prick because he is a tough negotiator, the reason Apple products are so good is because Jobs is a prick in negotiations. He knows the quality he wants and he won't settle for less. That's a key reason why people like me love Apple products.

So Steve, continue being a prick. Make sure that when Flash comes to the iPhone it is on Apple's terms. Most of us Apple user's appreciate your prickish ways.

What is the issue with Steve keeping his private life private? He is under no obligation to inform the world of any health problem he has. Have some of you even heard of HIPAA? If you had a disease you are under no obligation to tell your boss about it. Your HR department will know about it since they are dealing with your medical benefits but your management team absolutely does not have to be informed (unless it affects you ability to do your job). Everyone has a right to their privacy and to deal with health matters in their own way. So, those of you bitching that Steve didn't hold a press conference to tell the world he had cancer.. GET OVER IT! Jobs doesn't always make the best decisions, which you can complain about until the cows come home, but the complaint about how he dealt with his cancer is stupid and within the law. Read about HIPAA for more information.

You know, I don't know what the hullabaloo over Flash on the iPhone is. Maybe I'm just a Luddite, but the first thing I do with a new browser is find out how to disable Flash. The lack of annoying advertising animations on the iPhone can only be a *good* thing, I think, and if it means I can't play timewasting little games, oh well.

I uninstalled Adobe's PDF reader from my Mac. I don't need to wait what feels like 20 minutes for the damn bloated app to load just so I can see a PDF doc. I use Preview now exclusively for viewing my PDFs. Adobe Acrobat Reader is bloated sh*t. Adobe, you listening? BLOATED POS!

"let me begin by stating that i'm a Mac user and fan of apple products. however, my concern is that steve jobs is getting more annoying with each passing day. to name a few of my gripes: (1) he's got the biggest ego in the world, (2) he insults people most recently at the apple shareholder meeting, (3) he backdated options at both apple and pixar, (4) he hid his cancer from the company and the "owners" of apple ... the shareholders (5) he tells a person off at macworld 2008 when they ask to take a <a >photo </a>with him

at the end of the day, STEVE JOBS IS A PRICK"

Welcome to 1984. Steve's ALWAYS been like this (minus the cancer and the stock thing).

Mar 06, 08 - 11:42 am Comment from: TenaciousDNA

84 Mac Guy: EXACTLY

SJ is probably just covering AAPL's and it's user's butts (in that order?) by demanding apps that are "snappier" on a modern architecture. Could you imagine the hit Apple and AAPL would take if they provided a capability on the iPhone that was dog-@$$ slow, even if it was due to non-optimized third party software?

Same thing with the PDF viewer. Yeah - Apple's PDF renderer needs some work (weird preview), but I'm guessing it isn't a 21 MB+ application that takes 15 seconds to launch.

All this could be solved if Apple just bought Adobe.

For those city dwellers among us, horseshit sounds like several deflated tennis balls hitting the ground one after another. The smell isn't all that bad compared to cow flop or pig shit.

Mar 06, 08 - 12:10 pm Comment from: feral

Flash - ah - Saviour of the universe
Flash - ah - it'll save ev'ry one of us
not

@ FU-SJOBS:

Steve Jobs is a just a guy. Stop expecting him to be 'special'.
Its your own foolish belief in 'special' (bad or good) that makes life seem unpleasant.

There is no Sanat Calsu, George Bush really is stupid, Steve Jobs ego is something that you dont understand.

In fact, by your post, you are confusing ego with assertion.
Thats simply wrong.

Just use your computer and stop worrying about things you see and read on the net or on your TV.
In fact, throw away your TV, you aren't strong enough to withstand its brainwashing power.

Steve Jobs is beyond your comprehension.
So is existence.

Be happy and shut up.

@ John C. Randolph - "Please just buy Adobe already. "

~ it was MDN who reported a month ago that Apple was set to buy Adobe. I look like a tool having gloated to my Windows-using father-in-law that this was taking place.

Flash is bloatware and also CRAP.

Mar 06, 08 - 12:37 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

You can bet Apple has Flash working on the iPhone. Apple makes SURE things work well, or don't, before releasing them into the wild.

In this case, Jobs wouldn't randomly pick a fight with Adobe over Flash if there weren't issues deploying it on the iPhone.

Face it: Flash is a resource hog.

Maybe if all Flash programmers were extremely careful and optimized every bit of everything used in their Flash bits it wouldn't be. Or if we all had super-fast internet connections. But we all know better than that.

There's gotta be something that will work better or maybe Adobe needs to do some serious work on Flash to bring it up to modern standards, not 90's standards.

Maybe Apple should buy Adobe. I'd be all for it!

Adobe started it!
Did not!
Did!
Didn't!
Did…

Blah blah blah…

Mar 06, 08 - 12:58 pm Comment from: shen

who. cares.

adobe makes 1 maybe 2 products that don't suck. and at the rate Apple is going it will have replaced adobe in 2 years.

flash is total crap on a full machine. it must run REALLY well on the iPhone. it is crap on every phone i have ever seem it on.

let Adobe just fade away like they deserve. i would love to see the Apple version of photoshop. put them out of their misery.

Mar 06, 08 - 01:06 pm Comment from: Algr

Guess what: Even if the Flash player worked perfectly on an iPhone, the Flash Apps would still suck.

Flash ignores multi-touch, and expects everyone to have a keyboard and mouse. Trying to simulate this on an iPhone would always be awkward for anything more complex then a banner ad. Existing flash apps also assume a much larger screen then the iPhone, and can't be reformatted as easily as a web page.

While it might be possible to re-write flash apps for the iPhone, you can ALREADY do that by re-writing into java or CSS. So blocking flash simply blocks banner ads and a bunch of mouse-dependent legacy programs that would never be practical anyway.

What am I missing? Preview does not render accurately compared to Acrobat so I re-installed Acrobat.

Why do many users say that Preview is better?

Full disclosure - maybe it's my fault because I am still on Panther. Did Preview get fixed or something?

@Ampar

Listen carefully to the last sound file listed here:
http://www.horsepresence.com/shop/SoundsHome.html

I hope this helps.

Mar 06, 08 - 01:34 pm Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

@maclouie

Preview in Leopard is a very different animal from Preview in Panther or Tiger. You can do things like assemble docs in the new Preview and add comments and add annotations that were not possible without Acrobat Standard ($300) before.

Mar 06, 08 - 01:38 pm Comment from: Ampar

To SoundMan:

Very helpful! I get it now.

Mar 06, 08 - 01:49 pm Comment from: neomonkey

maclouie, for a PDF that doesn't render well in Preview (very few in my experience) use PDF View. PDF Lab can create multipage PDFs too.

I love open source software.

@maclouie

Preview doesn't always render and/or print properly in Tiger 10.4.11 as well. Been that way for years. I had to reinstall Adobe's PDF reader too and it worked fine.

I hate flash... Especially those ads that you have to wait to load.