“With Apple holding onto 91% of the market for digital video downloads, one might think that the company’s rapid ascendancy in movie sales would have received more attention by the media,” Daniel Eran Dilger writes for RoughlyDrafted.
Dilger writes, “Instead, reporters have suggested reasons why the figures don’t really matter and analysts are offering their advice on how to ‘fix’ Apple’s digital strategy. Most of the suggestions involve Apple stooping to copy the failure of Microsoft’s DRM-centric rental revocations or the Media Center/Tivo DVR money pit between the rock of cable providers and the hard place of consumers looking for cheap hardware.”
“It’s hard to see why it would make sense for Apple to copy existing products that don’t sell well rather than keeping the Apple TV as what it was intended to do. Part of the reason why decent products like the TiVo aren’t selling is that… there is no market for third party cable set top boxes when the provider is renting out units at cost in the hopes subscribers will blindly pay rent for several years without thinking about it,” Dilger writes. “If Tivo–which has a devoted following and a highly regarded product–is struggling to sell its DVR in competition with those offered by cable and satellite providers, how will Apple jump into that market and dramatically accomplish anything different using Tivo’s same strategy?”
Much more in the full article here.
Well ya, da! Of course they should.
I think they should… license them out to cable providers like Comcast instead of this crap from Motorola
Yes, and introduce it at MWSF ’08.
Allow ATV to access certain websites (hulu.com, abc.com, etc…) that give TV content online streaming for free (legally) with a few ads. DVR programming will not be needed. Simplest solution and no extra hardware needed, just an ATV update.
Yes… aren’t we already aware of this? It’s the one reason I haven’t gotten an Apple TV (oh wait, I don’t have cable either).
I don’t care about DVR, not with BitTorrent so easy to use. But I would like to see the AppleTV support AVI files. I would buy one tomorrow if it could play my library of AVIs.
Funny how the media only wants to talk about how NBC left iTunes; how to ‘fix’ Apple TV; and how nobody wants movie downloads.
Yet iTunes TV shows are going through the roof (now selling in Canada and has 99% share of legal downloads); those who have bought Apple TV love how well it does what it is programed to do; and iTunes has 42% of legal movie downloads with only 4 studios and only 1 of those giving new releases.
I’m glad Steve doesn’t listen to the media.
I would buy one in a heart-beat if it had DVR capability. Seems like all the DVR’s are tied to monthly subscriptions. I don’t want recurring bills. But if I could buy an Apple DVR that also included other features (movie rentals?) I would be set.
Same with the iPod Touch– when they include all the features I want (like email), I’ll buy one.
I don’t really understand this DVR business. If you’re using an ATV then you have to be using iTunes. If you’re using iTunes, you have to be using a computer. Just buy the DVR thingy for your computer and set it to record for ATV. I do this nearly every day with my Eye TV Hybrid.
“Should Apple add a DVR to Apple TV?”
I don’t know. The name “AppleTVDVR” just sounds too confusing…..
If they did and it was blue ray and the other format compatible they would sell shit loads.
Thats the only thing that is stopping me buy an Apple TV – that fact you cant record video from it of the tv.
Fantstico.
I’m just waiting on a cablecard version of EyeTV myself, though if one came out, I might unplug the Mini and 8 hard drives from the TV and get a standard AppleTV to make viewing on the TV simpler.
I’m with mr_matalino. The biggest thing I’d like to see added is access to the networks websites to watch their streaming videos.. Many of the networks do stream their own shows for free and watching a couple 30 second commercials is much better than 20 minutes of them in an hour..
The second thing is the video rentals.. I don’t want to own, or store the huge files. I usually only watch a movie once.
Third would be a a DVD player, or access to the computer’s DVD player.
Fourth a DVR, or ability to use an EyeTV in conjunction with AppleTV..
Apple should just use that extra USB slot in the back of the Apple TV and create/license a hi-end(true HDTV) wireless or wired version of el gato to record your TV shows off of your cable box and on to the Apple TV hard drive.
Having the built in Front Row recognize the hardware, you would get the simplicity of what you’ve been used to.
That would put an end to all this stuff for the mean time.
It’s hard to figure out what’s going on with Apple TV – very un-Steve like to introduce something that is mostly a promise of something really useful to come and then say no more for months and months. Surely he will address in a couple of weeks.
As for me, I’ll buy one when I can replace my satellite service with it and it will have to have DVR, of course, along with ALL the other capabilities found on cable and satellite boxes.
In the meantime, I still can’t figure why I would want to send a low res version of what’s on my Mac to my HDTV.
I don’t think they need a DVR capability. There is so much that needs to happen to ATV that a DVR is more of an add on than a core function/user experience of what the device is meant to be.
It needs direct access to iTunes, a subscription service and possibly HD content waaaay before adding a DVR to it.
Some of you should take a look at what you are asking for. You basically want a “Swiss Army Knife Digital Box”. Apple does not make such products. iPod (simple), iPhone (simple), iPod Touch (simple), Apple TV (simple).
When the movie studios allow movie rentals on iTunes then you will see Apple TV sales double. At that point it would be use useless to have a DVR feature on ATV. A DVR would just eat into iTunes profits.
yes, they should….Also a BlueRay DVD player would be nice… Support for HD content……..Now We’re talking.
I agree with the writer. DirectTV. DishNetwork, and most cable companies have built-in DVRs (TiVO or otherwise). Therefore an AppleTV with DVR may be a bit useless.
Perhaps another option would be to work with the cable companies to embed an AppleTV/DVR into their cable boxes. Then you would have the best of all worlds.
Adding a DVR makes absolutely no sense for Apple.
It’s been said a million times before, yet few seem to understand that Apple TV is a completely new business approach to a completely on demand future..
Apple is in the business of selling (or possibly renting) content through the iTunes store, which in turn helps them to sell devices like iPods and Apple TV’s to play back that content.
They are not in the business of selling devices that record that same content for free..
If Apple needs do add a DVR to tv ?YES.
All I want from Apple TV is 5.1 support. ATV supports anamorphic video and 720p. Well I believe it does. Just need that audio 5.1 through that HDMI output and I’m set.
You guys that want DVR, Blu-ray, HD-DVD add-ons, the kitchen sink, etc…are frickin’ stupid.
Apple will have movie rentals and they will also have TV shows with ads for free along with TV shows that you can pay for with no ads. They partnered with Podaddies a bit ago to accomplish that.
I swear, most of you guys “just don’t get it.”
Apple already has a DVR. It’s called a Macintosh computer. Connect any of a number of tv tuners to your usb port and install Elgato TV and you have a DVR. The software will export your recording to your Apple TV and there you have it a very easy to use DVR. I love the set up on my iMac.
I don’t understand some of the discussion here. If they don’t substantially improve this thing, what use is it? People don’t know why they need it other than Steve said here’s another box with the beloved logo. Result: people buy it and then what?
Speaking of the beloved logo, I’m setting up a couple of 20in displays that arrived a couple of days ago and was amused to see that there is a piece of tape across the logo on the bottom center aluminum frame. So precious is the thing that it gets its own special tape protection. Apple arrogance expressed in so many ways they can’t all be counted. Wow.
DVR for ATV? Never gonna happen. Ever.
You want HD content to stream, and now you want to record it too? Jeez! Why don’t you just say that you want to set up your own video pirating station?
The studios would never let that happen.
What’s more likely is that Apple TV is simply waiting to get the green light on streaming HD movies/tv as rentals/subscriptions. That is what it is designed to do.
Ever wonder just why Apple hasn’t pulled the trigger on streaming HD content (other than pod-casts)? When it obviously can (ala HD pod-casts). Apple TV is patiently waiting for the rest of the world to catch up with this new media distribution solution.
If you want to see a glimpse of this future, just watch YouTube stream over your Apple TV. THAT is the new video distribution paradigm. YouTube may not be HD yet, but they are systematically converting their whole video collection to H.264, scalable HD. Interesting, no? Buh-bye broadcast TV. . . Hello Apple TV.
Hobby, indeed!
Nimbus. Cha-ching. You hit it right on the nose.
The hard part for Studios is that digital movie rentals will kill DVD sales. DVD Rental stores like Blockbuster won’t be buying DVD’s. It will make more sense for consumers to rent 4 times than buy a DVD. Blu-ray and HD DVDs are going to be in trouble over the next few years as removable/recordable media becomes obsolete.
If Apple generates enough Ad revenue from their downloads and can offer the shows for free, it will be good night.
It will be very interesting to see how Studios either accept or reject this new model.
HECK YEAH! Please apple add the dvr, so I can send this DirecTV piece of $#@! back!
TV is dead. Keep it unsullied.
Apple TV is intended to make the HDTV in the living room into a giant iPod. Adding DVR feature does not fit Apple’s strategy of encouraging the user to get content through iTunes. It is more likely that Apple will announce a video rental scheme for the iTunes Store, which can then be played through the computer, iPod/iPhone, or Apple TV. As a business strategy, adding TiVo-like features and services to Apple TV does not make sense.
Yes, they should! As well as a built-in DVD player (Blue Ray/HD player when they become affordable) and a bigger hard drive.
Give the customer what they want, an EASY way to play ANYTHING whenever they want.
BTW – This is not a portable device. It’s okay if it is a fraction of an inch thicker to give us a more capacity. (and have it run a little cooler)
@The Other Steve
“Give the customer what they want, an EASY way to play ANYTHING whenever they want.”
——————-
Apple TV isn’t designed to play ANYTHING. It is designed to play iTunes content.. And that’s all it will ever do..
The days of network television as we know it and physical media are numbered. The battle between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be stillborn before a winner is ever declared.
The future is content on demand.. Steve knows it. Apple TV and the iTunes store are designed to take us there.
Adding DVR to Apple TV??? What a stupid idea!!! It will kill iTunes. People proposing that don’t have common business sense. The key is to add more content to iTunes, movie rentals, casual gaming, and have people download content from their couch… Apple TV hardware doesn’t need a single update.
No DVR. Here’s why (in my opinion):
Apple wants you to stop paying for cable, where random things are playing all the time, and you have to catch them (or plan in advance) and record them along with commercials, etc. Does that sound like Apple? Um, no.
Apple wants you to have total control. Meaning, stop paying for cable and Netflix, and nothing comes in that you don’t ask for.
You want to watch a TV show, you buy it or you buy the season. If they start playing ads in the TV shows, then maybe you don’t pay. Apple wants to be an “On Demand” TV network, via Apple TV. DVR is not “On Demand”.
Or look at it this way, especially if they support ads, why would you want to fiddle with DVR, have another device, etc., when you know you can just download and watch. You’ll be watching the same thing you would have recorded, but in a much more efficient way.
They also want to rent or buy movies, like Pay Per View / Netflix.
DVR doesn’t help people have control. DVR just adds to the already out of control network mess.
One unit, one service, eliminates the need for DVR, Netflix, Cable, Network TV.
Oh, and your new Apple TV / Front row remote will be your iPhone / Touch come Feb.
Apple TV is a joke in this day where most everyone still gets their TV via cable/satellite. The cost for the box is outrageous considering it can’t record (compared to TiVo series2 or TiVo HD prices).
TV shows in the iTunes store are ridiculously overpriced. If a typical cable bill is $100/month, you can watch 50 hours a month from iTunes. What if I watch 30 hours/week? That’d cost me $240/month! Well, probably not considering half the stuff I watch wouldn’t be available on iTunes (CNBC, HGTV, local news, daytime soaps and more).
Who says TiVO isn’t selling? Not as fast as TiVo would like, sure, but they’re in millions more households than AppleTV, which, as far as I’ve heard, has yet to crack one million.
Video on demand may be the future (or it may not), but that future is a LONG way off. The Apple TV device on the market today isn’t gonna bring that future closer to us any faster.
Besides recording, Apple TV ought to support open standards for media sharing — DNLA, which is already supported by PS3 and a number of other wireless-streaming-to-TV devices. And if Apple TV seriously wants you to only buy content from iTunes, then it ought to make the iTunes store available on the TV itself, just like Amazon Unbox is available through TiVo.
@ Jeff J:
“Video on demand may be the future (or it may not), but that future is a LONG way off.”
January is technically the future, but not very long off…
Ok, maybe sometime in 2008, but still not too far.
Should Apple add a DVR to Apple TV? Hell noooo.
DVR to Apple TV, it’s like I have a movie store and want you to buy for my items. And at the same time I would be offering you a way to have them for free. This is just nonsense. I really really really don’t know why people are still thinking od DVR on iTunes
I would purchase an AppleTV right now if it had a DVR.
Just buy a Mac mini for christ sake! The Apple TV is lame.
@ macman:
It sounds like you are stuck in the now. I’m thinking iTunes should offer ad supported TV shows for free which is identical to how they are on TV. You will have the same end result as if you used a DVR, but without the hassle.
If you rent movies and cancel cable, your monthly expense will probably be lower.
They had to introduce Apple TV sans these features… That’s the only way to convince the networks that this is how it should work. The networks can’t envision the future, they actually have to see it.
Next year Apple will be dominating this market. Just like iPod / iTunes took over music.
Slow moves Ellie, slow moves.
You can’t compare Apple TV to Tivo.
As it is now, Apple TV is much more than Tivo ever was. With DVR functionality, it will be even more so.
Simply adding a function to a product, that a competitor already has, does not mean that your product will sell similarly to theirs does now, without your product’s already available features.
Did I write that coherently? I hope so.
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Simply adding a “DVR” function to Apple TV does not make it into TiVo. TiVo is great because of the TiVo service, not the TiVo hardware. Apple would never just add DVR hardware functions without excellent integrated services. Since Apple’s service model is the iTunes Store, not facilitating the recording of broadcast TV, Apple TV will not be getting DVR functions. If you want a DVR, get TiVo. I have it myself and it’s great. I wouldn’t give it up for an Apple TV with or without DVR functions, because TiVo’s service is what I like.
Now, if Apple teamed up with (or bought) TiVo and introduced a new Apple TV that combined TiVo features with an Apple TV, that would be interesting. However, I don’t think such a thing is likely because Apple’s strategy is to encourage customers to use the iTunes Store to obtain content, not record broadcast TV.
“Should Apple add a DVR to Apple TV?”
Yes, If they want to sell more.
Apple. Doesn’t. Think. Like. That.
They don’t give customers what they want. They give them what they didn’t know was possible.
If you want to guess what Apple is up to, the first thing you have to do is forget about conventional thinking.
Most people that read the iPhone rumors last year were picturing an iPod with a slide out keyboard. As if that was all they needed to do to have a hot seller…
As if adding DVR is going to make it fly off the shelves.
As if Apple will leave all the conventional ideas of how networks handle distribution of content alone.
A Stylus, right? No.
The movie studios will not cooperate with Apple and put a large number of movies on itunes. So Apple should just as well put DVR
capabilities into Apple tv. Then we can record movies and put them on our iPods.
Same idea with NBC shows.
That’ll learn ’em
You aren’t looking into the future. You’re looking around at a bunch of devices and methods that already exist.
Rumors point to a new laptop that lacks an optical drive. You are talking about adding an optical drive to Apple TV. S-Video is dead and gone from Macs. Not going to add it to Apple TV.
Not going to add SD card slots, no zip drives, probably not adding anything. Just modifying content delivery methods. They’ve shipped them already with the intention of from then on – controlling it with iTunes.
This is such typical feedback. You’re describing things that already exist that don’t work that well. Apple won’t get involved with a project unless they think the current competing products are completely f*cked, and rethink the whole thing.
I understand Apple’s mantra: that ATV is intended to make that 52-inch HDTV in your living room into a giant iPod.
But the question is what consumers want? To get out of the control by cable/satellite providers and jump into buying contents provided by iTunes store? What’s wrong with one of the functions of ATV being a DVR? I for one like the idea of free over-the-air HDTV programming recorded on my Macbook Pro via EyeTV. If ATV has DVR, then one could get free HDTV programming and skip ads with the DVR feature, or receive cable channels but do not have to pay a monthly DVR fee to cable companies. And of course one can still buy content from iTunes if $2 an episode of TV show appears to be a good idea. This is what I call consumer choice. Though I am a fan of Apple products, but let one manufacturer tell you how to arrange your home entertainment is wrong. And maybe that’s why ATV is not selling.
Try to think of iPod w/o the function of adding songs you acquired through channels other than iTunes. Imagine if that works.
Apple should take a couple $B of that $15B warchest and just buy Tivo and integrate it into all Macs (like FrontRow)
Yes, Apple should add a 750 GB disk to the Apple TV and make one hell of a DVR. And include a Blu-Ray disk. And kill the Mini.
I also like the idea of buying TiVo for the services that Apple could offer as part of the package.
Apple, I’m sure, could make a great product that integrates iTunes for download, over the air broadcast DVR, and BD media. Apple could sell BD media through iTunes.
Also, Apple could sell a special version of the DVR loaded with porn. Now that baby would sell like hot cakes!
Adding video content to Apple TV via DVDs needs to be allowed, just like it is with music. That definitely needs to happen if Apple TV is to succeed.
Adding DVR just ain’t gonna happen guys. iTunes is a content delivery program. That means they want to go head to head with cable companies and Netflix / Blockbuster.
Apple wants you to choose what you want to watch, when you want to watch it. Period.
You may think you gain that freedom by having DVR capabilities, but you don’t. You get to record only what the cable companies / TV networks decide to broadcast. That limits your choices.
Apple also needs to supply free, ad supported TV shows via iTunes – as an option. That way the networks (who should know you can record it on a DVR) should be OK with you just downloading it with the same ads. One could just subscribe to a TV show, just like they do with a podcast.
And rentals… F*ck yeah.
I think the real problem here is that people like to use their TV as a background distraction. This system would require people to actually choose what they want to watch… So Apple will have to add a shuffle feature for watching video.
No, why step backwards?
With a decent, HD download service DVR is dead but broadcast isn’t – think about how you decide what to watch.
They’d better hurry up though.
McD
Um, yes. This is a no brainer. Not only should it control content going into the TV, but it should be able to take it from the TV. DVR or something like the Slingbox would be the ultimate package. Obviously would want a bigger HDD, but why not create an all-in-one media center?
My thoughts?
Yes, have Steve announce it…but then say:
“Oh and One Other Thing”
” –> It only works on NBC ! <— “
:-O
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-hh
“Apple is in the business of selling (or possibly renting) content through the iTunes store, which in turn helps them to sell devices like iPods and Apple TV’s to play back that content.”
Actually Apple is in the business of selling hardware devices which get less than 3% of their content on average from ITMS and 97% from other sources.
ITMS is a sideline.
For the most part it seems somebody who watches any significant number of TV shows a week would prefer to buy a DVR and capture them for free than pay the cost of 24 downloads/month from ITMS. I’m willing to bet that ITMS is for the most part only picking up the “I missed My favorite show this week” business, and a DVR solves that.
However give people a reasonably priced ITMS subscription for all content, films, video, music it could be a winner.
The question is really about the content providers, that’s where the bottle neck really is in terms of what can happen versus what does happen.
Man I hate my cable box, I could think of 100 ways apple could make it more useful and intuitive. Lets start with the guides, let me see what I wanna see, I want control. Come to think of it, If they introduced a 42inch lcd with Apple TV built in, call it apple tv 3.0. I will buy 5 of them…
@TheConfuzed1: “You can’t compare Apple TV to Tivo. As it is now, Apple TV is much more than Tivo ever was. With DVR functionality, it will be even more so.”
Ow, my eyes cramped, rolled too far.
Seriously, from your statement, I don’t believe you have any idea what a TiVo does. It is not just a VCR with a hard drive.
AppleTV can stream video/music/photos from a Mac or PC. TiVo already does that. For that matter, so does PS3 and any number of other DNLA devices. AppleTV can play movies purchased and downloaded from iTunes. TiVo can play movies purchased or rented and downloaded from Amazon, direct to the TiVo box, no intermediary Mac/PC necessary, at prices that are comparable or lower than iTunes. Granted, the Amazon Unbox selection is kinda lousy, but the iTunes store selection isn’t exactly tops, either.
AppleTV costs $299, same price as TiVo HD (TiVo service is an additional $12.95/month). AppeTV requires HDTV, but if you want HD content, you’re limited to a handful of amateur HD podcasts. Everything else on iTunes is compressed down to a quality lower than what you would get from analog standard-def TV recorded with TiVo.
AppleTV is basically a wireless digital media adapter (what the rest of the industry calls these things) but instead of supporting standard, open protocols (DNLA/UPNP) it only supports Apple’s proprietary iTunes sync protocol. As AppleTV stands today, that’s ALL it is.
@Macintosh: “They don’t give customers what they want. They give them what they didn’t know was possible. This is such typical feedback. You’re describing things that already exist that don’t work that well. Apple won’t get involved with a project unless they think the current competing products are completely f*cked, and rethink the whole thing.”
Oh, put down the kool-aid. As I stated above — We knew what was possible long before AppleTV was announced. It doesn’t do anything new. My TiVo and Mac mini were already doing AppleTV’s trick (streaming video/audio/photos). AppleTV is just a slowpoke Mac mini, sans DVD player, with HDMI and component output. That’s all.
Cable company (Cox) DVRs suck, no question, I won’t argue with that. But TiVo DVRs do not suck. Surprising to some readers here, maybe, but there actually are non-Apple products on the market today that do not suck.
Pretending Apple TV is some holy grail that will wipe out broadcast/cable/satellite/DVD is just wishful deluded fanboy thinking. And as an Apple fan myself since 1981 I don’t say that lightly.
I’m not an Apple basher, far from it. I have a Mac mini connected to my HDTV, and I’ve owned a IIe, IIGS, IIci, Centris 650, Power Mac 7600, G3/266 minitower, Dual G4/1.42, Dual G5/2.7, PowerBook 145B, Pismo, 12″ G4, and 15″ MacBook Pro, plus 1G, 3G, 5.5G iPods, a 2G nano, and an iPhone. Oh yeah, and 300 shares of AAPL, just in case there’s any question about my fanboy cred.
@ Jeff J:
I don’t think we’ll be able to predict what they’ll do with it. If it was that easy, they would have already done it.
Just like the iPhone. The only reason they’ve shipped this thing is to start adding content to it. They’ve got something planned for it that we (and Tivo) aren’t thinking of, or they wouldn’t have shipped it.
“You can’t compare Apple TV to Tivo. As it is now, Apple TV is much more than Tivo ever was. With DVR functionality, it will be even more so.”
This shows a complete misunderstanding of Tivo, Apple TV and the competitive landscape.
XBox does everything Apple TV does and more.
Tivo does everything Apple TV does and more.
PS3 does everything Apple TV does and more.
Other devices are winning the battle for the living room.