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Jul 03, 08 - 11:21 am Comment from: DreamTheEndless

Simple Answer:
Full price to upgrade from Tiger
Discount to upgrade from Leopard

Should auto manufacturers charge extra for brakes, safety belts, and door locks?

charge $129

complainers $149

Apple's sliding scale purchase plan

suckers $129

switchers $149

idiots $169

cretins $189

morons $209

simpletons $229

half-wits $249

imbeciles $269

pinheads $289

nitwits $309

fanbois $329

@ha ha huh?

That looks awfully similar to Microsofts...

Suckers defined as people who use hardware that works.

Jul 03, 08 - 11:38 am Comment from: Macfabulous

Comment from: no - "charge $129 complainers $149"

Perfect buisness plan! ...Ha! ha!

If Microsoft did this with Wista and their other products, prices would go sky high!

Jul 03, 08 - 11:38 am Comment from: G4Dualie

and don't forget Radius, microsoft fanbois paying $329 for the Windows Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Who pays three hundred dollars for an OS?

Should Be Free! Charging for a 'Software Update' with a fancy name is just wrong. M$ didn't even charge for XP SP2. Don't tell me this is different without an explanation that makes sense. I'm not paying for patches!

Jul 03, 08 - 11:44 am Comment from: Metryq

Skabeetle, no soup for you!

Jul 03, 08 - 11:46 am Comment from: dallas

I liked Daniel's theory of why Snow Leopard will be regular price. Mainly, there is no need to lower it. The people that will benefit from it will happily pay $129 or more and the people that won't benefit probably wouldn't upgrade anyways.

@G4Dualie

True, very true. Remember Microsoft's motto ' We paint our customers into a corner, and then squeeze all the cash out of them!'

Hey, Ha,Ha,Huh, Isn't it great that Microsoft has to give away Apple iPods to get people to use their search system? God, comedy like this just can't be invented!

Jul 03, 08 - 11:47 am Comment from: dallas

Sorry, that would be Daniel Dillenger (sp?) at Roughlydrafted.com

If you don't read Roughlydrafted.com, who are you?

Jul 03, 08 - 11:52 am Comment from: Cubert

@skabeetle,
There will be new features in 10.6. They just won't be of the same magnitude as Spotlight, Dashboard, Spaces, Time Machine, etc.

They could charge for it as normal. For those who do not think it offers any value, guess what? Don't buy it!! The following version will offer nice bells and whistles, some based on the new foundations, which people will value, and they can upgrade then. Meanwhile, developers have the foundations of future releases to build on. If any of these apps make Snow Leopard desirable after all, then buy it!

Basically it's simple. If you like it, at release or later, buy it. If not, then don't.

Apple may entirely expect most users not to bother.

And they don't want users getting free Leopard upgrades through the back door. Someone said offer discount to Leopard users, but that sounds like work and also hackable. Why bother?

Jul 03, 08 - 11:55 am Comment from: Randian

Everything should be free! Everything! Profit should be outlawed! Hang all corporate dogs! Confiscate the wealth of the oligarchy and distribute the money to everyone else! Socialism forever! Long live Marx, Lenin, and Che!

'Nuff said.

Nah. They should simply have a charge for every new advertised feature.

Peace.

YES, give it away. Or sell it for $49.99. This will show that MS Windows is a total joke!

Jul 03, 08 - 12:38 pm Comment from: HMCIV

"Should auto manufacturers charge extra for brakes, safety belts, and door locks?

Sometimes they charge more for good brakes. Sometimes they charge more for Airbags. Cusre you sneeky automakers!

Jul 03, 08 - 12:41 pm Comment from: dd

Really, I think $39 - $69 is acceptable. I'd be a bit annoyed at $129.

@Ha, ha, ha
You Missed 2
China $1 to compete with pirates
Government $329,000

personally i've never payed for for an OS update because my company always pays for me, but i would happily pay $129 for snow leopard. If Apple is spending millions developing it, it seems more than reasonable to have to pay for it. Anyone asking for it for free just isn't living in reality. The world is not open source and free.

Jul 03, 08 - 12:56 pm Comment from: rahrens

Annoyed? Why annoyed? Because you want to have the benefits but don't want to pay for it?

Then don't buy it, be annoyed, and buy 10.7, when there ARE improvements you can justify to yourself!

Personally, I think that when they are finished, the improvements WILL be worth paying for - I like the idea of faster, smoother, more reliable code - which, by the way, ain't cheap! And the improvements already mentioned, that are not being called new features, by the way, are already pretty good.

I'll buy it.

Jul 03, 08 - 01:01 pm Comment from: BC Kelly

Snow Leopard Home Kitty - $29.95

Snow Leopard Home Tom Cat - $29.95

Snow Leopard Professional Mama Cat - $29.95

Snow Leopard Professional Alley Cat - $29.95




BC

Jul 03, 08 - 01:20 pm Comment from: Andy

Do car companies charge less, or at all, when they revise one of their models? Apple Inc, like it or not is still in the business of making a profit. This means that they will probably offer Snow Leopard for some charge - afterall, after all the manhours and research that has gone into the product - why shouldn't Apple get a return for it?

Let's not be foolish here - Apple doesn't exist for goodwill alone...

'Free' is never really free, in any case, and I expect Apple to charge for Snow Leopard within the range of $79. To me, that's a fair deal, and I am quite happy to reward Apple for its efforts to give me a damn good OS.

Jul 03, 08 - 01:24 pm Comment from: Captain Pat

"Should auto manufacturers charge extra for brakes, safety belts, and door locks?"

Actually, they do. And then they hit you for floor mats. I don't think there is anything in the world more over priced than car dealer floor mats.

Jul 03, 08 - 01:35 pm Comment from: Andy

@Captain Pat

Isn't that like the disposable shaver companies who make up the bulk of their profit on people constantly re-buying new razor blades?

It's also the exactly same strategy Microsoft use for the Xbox (and Windows). Make people pay through the nose for the more basic OS or console, and 'compel' them to spend money on exorbitantly priced peripherals?

Sony, on the other hand, even on the basic PS3 model, include a wireless card and instant access to the PS Network, all without a single dime spent! (okay, apart from the console price, but still).

Apple give something away for free? Oh my god, I can't stop laughing! Steve Snobs won't ever do that.

"Should auto manufacturers charge extra for brakes, safety belts, and door locks?"

No, they should be part of the package.

If you get upgraded parts, you'd have to pay for them, and for the labor of upgrading.

Jul 03, 08 - 01:56 pm Comment from: Roberto

The pathetic bitter PC fanboi static level seems to be increasing lately.
Please go back to your scroungy Vista to XP 10 year old technology downgrades please if you can't contribute something positive.

Dear Leader already knows all of this. Just let him go non-think about it in the JobsPod. He's probably reading all of this and laughing, figuring we're going to keep ourselves occupied with this rumor, while keeping us off the trail of the juicy new hardware.

Jul 03, 08 - 02:01 pm Comment from: alansky

I do think Apple will encounter considerable resistance from their fan base if they charge $129 for an OS X upgrade that basically looks and feels exactly like Leopard. And it seems silly to abandon a source of upgrade dollars (PowerPC users) unless the cost of maintaining backward compatibility would be prohibitive. But it is doubtful that PowerPC users will be complaining much (if this turns out to be the case); and if they do: too bad. When you hold onto an old computer, you can't expect it to be upgradable indefinitely. That's just the facts of life.

"Should Apple just give away Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard?"

Yes Please.

Jul 03, 08 - 03:16 pm Comment from: derekcurrie

MDN ask: "Should Apple just give away Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard?"

I answer: No. Apple is a publicly traded corporation and therefore has an obligation to its shareholders to make a profit.

So no, Snow Leopard won't be free. But I personally would be pretty darned pissed off if it cost the usual upgrade price for a new version of the OS. Leopard itself (as of 10.5.4) remains remarkably buggy. AFAIAC, Snow Leopard is a massive bug fix as well as a way to introduce improved Mac technology. So keep it cheap Apple or the natives will get restless.

Jul 03, 08 - 03:29 pm Comment from: derekcurrie

Size of the OS:
Apple are slimming down the entire memory footprint of Snow Leopard. People ask how this is possible. To me one answer is obvious. But for those who don't yet comprehend:

Snow Leopard will drop all PowerPC support code. It's Intel or nothing. (Or so I surmise).

Another answer has been in the air since Mac OS X was originally announced:

All the code in Snow Leopard will be Cocoa. No more bulky legacy Carbon code. Now of course, Apple have been claiming this was going to happen for years, and still there is Carbon code in Leopard. But this time, if only for the purpose of slimming down, I think they're really going to finish the job.

Jul 03, 08 - 03:36 pm Comment from: derekcurrie

Wow spewed: "Apple give something away for free? Oh my god, I can't stop laughing! Steve Snobs won't ever do that."

Bought Mac OS X 10.0? Get 10.1 free.

QuickTime? Was always free.

iTunes? Was always free.

Stoopid ignorant anti-Mac troll excrement? Was always free.

Apple built itself the tools to compile/recompile code for both platforms. Every PowerPC Mac user knew that a day would come when their computer would no longer be able to use the latest OS. However, if a PowerPC Mac can run Leopard, why not let it run Snow Leopard? If the PowerPC is getting let go, let it go the best way possible - small, lightweight apps, no Cocoa. It's the classy thing to do.

MDN uses "Rumor" and "Report" for some headlines. We need a term for idle discussion about what Apple "should" do. How about "Armchair CEO"?

Jul 03, 08 - 04:25 pm Comment from: MCCFR

To our resident Windroid, who obviously doesn't care about being ritually humiliated every time it turns up…

Let's for just one minute assume that you want to be able to actually use more than 16GB of RAM in your Barnumsoft Fister machine!

The most you can use in any of the pre-installed 32-bit versions is 4GB – you can install as much as you like, the OS just won't bother trying to see it – so the first thing you have to do is get one of the 64-bit editions, which - with the sole exception of Ultimate Edition - requires filling in a form at Barnumsoft's website.

Then you discover that, even if you have a 64-bit edition, that Home Premium can only address 34-bits (16GB). If you want anymore, you actually have to upgrade to Ultimate which will cost you $159.00.

So, in your world – where of course you're not bothered with Microsoft's business practices (convicted monopolist, conspires with partners to defraud consumers, charges consumers to install XP over the top of Vista OEM) – it's alright if Microsoft charges you $159 just so you can use all of the resources of your system. And then you have to hope that all of your apps and drivers are 64-bit clean or your system is going to crash in a pile on the floor.

But, if Apple wants to charge $129 for giving people access to a clean truly 21st century OS capable of…

addressing 16TB of RAM
exploiting multiple cores each with multiple threads
exploiting the power of GPUs as an operating system level feature

… that's a bad thing!

Let's just recap: $159 just to use all of the RAM you've chosen to buy and install.

Or $129 to get clean, streamlined OS based on a single set of APIs as opposed to Windows which still clings to its 16-bitness because Barnumsoft don't have the commercial courage to encourage corporate customers to upgrade or rewrite their applications.

And they don't have the technical courage or wit to encapsulate the 16-bit environment in a virtual box so they can get rid of the 20th-century shit and move forward.

And the confidence trick doesn't end on the desktop: want to use more than 32GB in your server?

You'll be wanting the Enterprise edition of Windows Server 2008.

And that'll be $3,000 for each server! Thank you for shopping with Barnumsoft, please call again.

Afib: What does it feel like to be an apologist for the most unethical, most overrated, most convicted, least imaginative, least capable software company on Earth?

Apple can't give Snow Leopard away for free due to accounting rules and the IRS.

Why should Apple give Snow Leopard away free/less cost? Because this is Apple's golden opportunity to remove legacy code from OS X and REALLY optimize it. The more people who pay for the upgrade and adopt, the better for Apple. Then Apple can stop supporting legacy PPC hardware sooner, which will save Apple in development costs.

However, to demand it for free is really silly. And comparing Snow Leopard to Windows XP SP2 is ridiculous.

Jul 03, 08 - 04:41 pm Comment from: MCCFR

And comparing Snow Leopard to Windows XP SP2 is ridiculous.

And yet, not as ridiculous as actually using Windows XP SP2.

There's a line that says something about the definition of stupidity being the repetition of the same actions whilst expecting a different result.

And yet every time Barnumsoft releases a new warmed-over plate of cold puke promising that it tastes better than ever, people like Afib, Crash and the other coprophiles lap it up and beg for another helping.

I'm actually a believer in evolution as a universal truth, but some of these troglodytes actually make me wonder at times.

Jul 03, 08 - 07:16 pm Comment from: HazMatt

I'd pay $129 if I believed it to be a snappier and slimmer OS. Honestly I care more about underlying code, and I would guess that the average consumer does, but doesn't know how to articulate it. If you could point to Snow Leopard and say "this update will keep your computer running faster for longer" (alluding to the phenomenon of buying a new snappy computer that just bogs down over time), I would think most people could grasp that.

Apple is good at explaining technology to non-technical people; let 'em do their thing and we'll judge later.

p.s. MDN, get rid of the retarded pop-up ads. Safari instantly closes them for me, but the fact that you employ them makes me think less of you (I've been pretty critical of the childish, nameless MDN editors in the past, so take this advice for what it's worth).

Jul 03, 08 - 09:40 pm Comment from: Road Warrior

Hey, ha ha ha ha, you should go talk to Zune Thang, that way the two of you can make a full wit. He would be able to fill you in on what you are missing...that Apple is copying Vista's sliding scale plan.

Remember those?

Too glued to the reruns of Captain Kirk ENTERPRISE Edition: At a price going where no Zune has gone before.

The Business Edition: Giving new meaning to FUD (Full Upfront Delivery)

The Home Basic Edition: For people who have four walls.

The Home Premium Edition: Allowing people to have four walls and two sets of windows.

The Ultimate: For people who can afford a computer system that will actually run Vista (first born children accepted as a down payment).

Jul 04, 08 - 01:15 am Comment from: The Other Steve

Which part of . . .

"I'm sure Apple is probably spending as much in developing 10.6 as they’d routinely invest in a standard feature upgrade"

didn't you understand?

If it has value, Apple should be able to charge for it.

Those people who will only pay for "oooooo, shinny things" are already paying through the nose for Vista.

"If you don't read Roughlydrafted.com, who are you?"

Somebody with a brain. RoughlyDrafted represents one fanboy's view of the way he wishes the world was, weaving in things that happened in the actual real word to try to give is alternative interpretation of reality credibility.

"I like the idea of faster, smoother, more reliable code -"

It's a pity Leopard is such slow, bumpy and unreliable code.

It's a great business model on Apple's part. Ship a broken OS and charge $129 to fix it.

And we all know that by the time Snow Job Leopard rolls around you will have all convinced yourself that 3 new screen savers are radical new features that justify spending $129.

"There's a line that says something about the definition of stupidity being the repetition of the same actions whilst expecting a different result."

Like perhaps a fanboy continually posting about how great Mac OS X is and how bad Windows is, while knowing that Microsoft will continue to control the market.

Even if you have to pay $159 extra for 64 Ultimate or Business (Which is only true if you buy it retail rather than get it bundled), you can actually buy a Windows desktop today and a desktop OS which will let you put 128GB of memory in it and buy use it.

The extra $50-100 you pay for the OS over the home version will seem insigficant compared to the cost of 128GB of memory.

Such a product from Apple is vapourware.

"Apple can't give Snow Leopard away for free due to accounting rules and the IRS."

Apple can give away anything they like when it's a new product. There are some issues with adding features to existing software, but that too you can do for free to the customer if you account for it properly. When were you last charged for iTunes or Safari, or a Windows service pack which often adds significant new functionality?

Jul 04, 08 - 05:34 am Comment from: derekcurrie

@MCCFR spewed: "... Like perhaps a fanboy continually posting about how great Mac OS X is and how bad Windows is, while knowing that Microsoft will continue to control the market."

Right.

So the phrase "Give me liberty or give me death!" has no meaning for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_me_liberty_or_give_me_death

So if you were living in Stalinist Soviet Union and the only party you could vote for was the party that made the biggest mass murderer in human history their leader, you'd just go along for the ride.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

So if you were living in Jonestown and Jim Jones hands you a cup of Kool Aid and you know there's deadly poison in it, but hey everyone else in the tent is drinking it, you'd drink it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

You have fun there buddy with your Windows box.
Been there, done that since 1988, still do for clients, hated it, still hate it.

Jul 04, 08 - 07:02 am Comment from: MCCFR

Even if you have to pay $159 extra for 64 Ultimate or Business (Which is only true if you buy it retail rather than get it bundled), you can actually buy a Windows desktop today and a desktop OS which will let you put 128GB of memory in it and buy use it.

And thank you for playing Windows Jeopardy!

If you go to the Dell site and configure a machine, but opt for Vista Ultimate rather than Vista Home Premium (maximum RAM, even under 64-bit, is 16GB), you get charged an extra $150.00, which is only $9 less than retail but at least someone has done the hard yards for you.

So you pay your $150, and now you've – hopefully – got your 64-bit media, because you've acquired a copy of Ultimate.

So like I wrote earlier: want to use more than 16GB of RAM. Pay $150.00. Which is still – no matter which way you cut it – a tax on being able to use your system the way you want. I find it strange that, when it suits your case, $150 is "insignificant" as a percentage of the cost of purchasing the RAM.

Surely, if $150 is insignificant to use more than 16GB, than $129 is even less significant to have the ability to use up to 16TB of memory or as a percentage of the cost of the Macintosh.

Or is there some strange logical or philosophical construct that I'm failing to understand.

"So the phrase "Give me liberty or give me death!" has no meaning for you."

That''s really funny. Your "Liberty" consists of buying an overpriced PC from a single vendor of hardware. Mac users are the ones who need liberty.

And as for the personality cult and cool aid references, well you do know those are the textbook examples used to explain the Cult of Mac, not Windows?