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Aug 25, 08 - 03:55 pm Comment from: ken1w

If it's a "Mac," it should NOT be touchscreen. The Mac's "desktop" interface is optimized for using a keyboard and mouse. Apple will no doubt release a "tablet" computer, but it will be a scaled-up iPod touch, using the iPhone interface (after a few more revisions and enhancements).

Should Apple release a Multi-Touch™ touchscreen Mac?

Yes, Now, Laptop and Desktop!

I've been saying that I think Apple's big September product line announcement which was referred to in the last quarterly profits report will be multi-touch as a virtual keyboard.

Using multi-touch on an iMac's or iBook's screen would be nice, but it's completely impractical for input in most applications, like word processors, spreadsheets, financial apps, and even iTunes in its current state.

Touch screen iMacs have been around for awhile as aftermarket changes, and while they weren't multi-touch, they are niche products. It's simply not practical to have a vertical screen and try to work on your documents.

Aug 25, 08 - 03:57 pm Comment from: cptnkirk

Adding touch is fine. I like the facility it adds to my MBP.

I do think that touch 'only' accomplishes many of the functions we need to have a fully featured computer with essentially no keyboard.

The essential added interface, as far as I can see, is voice recognition.

Any computer without the ability to take dictation is useless to most of us. The true ability to take dictation requires heuristics that computers are not able to muster yet.

A keyboard of some sort will always be required in any case but should not necessarily be built into a 'tablet' form factor but offered as a plug-in/wireless device. There should be a virtual keyboard, though, for mobility, not for inputting my doctoral thesis.

Aug 25, 08 - 03:59 pm Comment from: cptnkirk

Oops!

I said: 'I do think that touch 'only' accomplishes many of the functions'

I meant: I don't think . . . .

"I think it has proven to be quite capable in designing handsome products."

Understatement of the year. Possibly of all time.

Aug 25, 08 - 04:02 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

I LOVE fingerprints and smudges on my monitor! It makes seeing and working SO much easier.

Sorry, but tablet computers have never really taken off. They can be perfect for certain vertical niche markets, but not as a general computing platform.

How many times has Microsoft tried defining, really just RENAMING, tablet computing platform specs? And how many times has it failed to catch on?

Even with Apple's Mac OS X iPhone/touch platform there's a limit as to what can be done with fingers gesturally. The next steps in speed and accuracy, unfortunately at this time, involve a stylus and a keyboard (for text entry).

Voice recognition works in some environments, but none that are public or involve working in group environments.

Gestural, touch-based computing has a ton of promise and Apple is really about the only player to watch to dfefine the next great interface breakthrough.

Belared hoorays for MDN, whose new mobile format is so much easier to load and read. Thanks a million

Unless I'm getting cash from an ATM, I'm not a big fan of touchscreens. There's the ergonomic/repetitive-stress issue of possible shoulder, elbow, and wrist to consider as well as fingerprints on the screen. I do a lot of Photoshop and fingerprints on the monitor would not be an enhancement.

Aug 25, 08 - 04:11 pm Comment from: ron

I'm ready to buy a Mac tablet - 12'' x 9'', able to rotate from landscape to portrait, touch enabled with virtual keyboard, plus ability to use existing Mac wireless keyboards. With Kindle and other book reading capabilities. Of course with full OSX.

Glossy screen optional. Hahahahaha.

Looks obvious that having a "traditionally standing" screen as multi-touch device would be a flat nonsense anyway.
Maybe a 30 or 45° surface could be nice... yet not so many professional apps would take advantage of that technology by now.

since none of the geeks can answer the question "who's gonna buy one of these instead of a laptop?" this kind of fluff should stay in Reislingers head.

Only if it is a touchscreen keyboard, not the main display.

Aug 25, 08 - 04:29 pm Comment from: Sixvodkas

Should Apple release a touchscreen Mac?

Sure.

Will I buy it?

No.

Aug 25, 08 - 04:31 pm Comment from: shen

"If it's a "Mac," it should NOT be touchscreen. The Mac's "desktop" interface is optimized for using a keyboard and mouse. Apple will no doubt release a "tablet" computer, but it will be a scaled-up iPod touch, using the iPhone interface (after a few more revisions and enhancements)."

you say tomato, or rather desktop vs tablet, and i say "who cares they are all running OS X.

the important difference between the desktop and the laptop and the as yet to offered tablet and the iphone/touch are pretty small compared to the overall picture. if they offer something in between the touch and macbook, in all details, they may have a winner.

if they offered a 7 to 8 inch touch screen, with more power and memory than the touch, but less than a macbook, and it got "touch" versions of things like keynote and pages, but could also run the iPhone apps like remote, they may have a winner.

people like to talk about finger prints and one poster mentions photoshop. this isn't a desktop replacement people, anymore than the iPhone is. nor is it a phone replacement. it sits between them. talking about photoshop or repetitive motion is like talking about all the reasons a moped will never replace a 747. it totally misses the point of both devices.

the headlines don't help. if they give the iMac a multi-touch screen, it will at best be a semi-useful add-on. if they create a whole new device in the space between the laptop and the iphone, a space most companies don't even know is there, they create a whole new and active market.

think outside the box, skate to the puck, wake up.

Aug 25, 08 - 04:33 pm Comment from: shen

"How many times has Microsoft tried defining, really just RENAMING, tablet computing platform specs? And how many times has it failed to catch on?"

i don't know.

how long did MS fail to bring real web browsing to the cell phone? never really caught on did it?

maybe Apple should drop that whole "iPhone" thing i have heard rumors about......

Aug 25, 08 - 04:45 pm Comment from: jarrettdailynews

keyboard shaped touch device on the way..... touch screen mac isn't going to happen. Tablet, maybe. There will not be a need for a single screen only computer. The idea is ridiculous. could you imagine, you would have to stand or sit at the device. Motion sensitive later on, buy touch imput device is on the way, in multiple configs.

iCal it.

What's with the bitchy "MacDailyNews Take" retort after every other paragraph? Reisinger isn't slamming Apple, no need to get all defensive. MDN seems to get touchy when anyone insinuates that Apple is a minority platform. A great platform, of course, but a minority.
As to the first comment: It's easy to grow fast when your market share is in the single digits.
And as to the second: Reisinger envisions a world where Apple's great design becomes the majority. Right now Mac computers are a boutique, higher end product. We have seen from all the copycat attempts of the iPod and iPhone that Apple is continuously raising the bar of product design, and thus raise the mainstream to ever higher levels of experience.

Yep. I feel like the iPhone has prepared me for it.

I had thought this would be an interesting option, until I tried out HPs touchscreen desktop system. It became quickly obvious that on most desks, this would be 'neat' for the first day, and then the mouse and keyboard would take over.

Reaching out and touching the screen for periods of time will make you VERY tired.

So for a general purpose machine, I think it's useless, but for specific applications (kiosks, tradeshows) itcould be useful.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think a multitouch input surface would be awesome.

Imagine a keyboard sized pad that displays a keyboard. Then when you go into an Audio app, a virtual mixing board shows up. In FCP, a jog/shuttle control, etc.

Aug 25, 08 - 04:56 pm Comment from: HMCIV

"That's a considerable amount of flocking."

Flocking... Flogging? Well FLOCK YOU TOO!

Aug 25, 08 - 05:14 pm Comment from: ron

Quad Core, "Reaching out and touching the screen for periods of time will make you VERY tired."

So you get VERY tired when you read a book that's on your desk or lap? Just sit back in your easy chair with this 'thingy' on your knees.

Aug 25, 08 - 05:25 pm Comment from: Spark

There is NO way Apple is going to make an iMac-like system with multi-touch. Jobs and Ive are way to savvy to attempt an ergonomic disaster such as that just to apply their new technology to the Mac. I do think we are going to see some convergence of iPhone and Mac technologies in a new breed of computers, but maybe this line won't even be called "Macintosh". Almost 25 years later we forget that there were other computer lines at Apple before the Mac. Why not a new line of touch-based computers (done right) introduced on the 25th Anniversary of the Mac?

Aug 25, 08 - 05:28 pm Comment from: Predrag

I'm amazed at the lack of ability to think outside the present user interface paradigms.

When you are writing something into a notebook, does that notebook stand upright at your desk, at your eyes' height, about an arm's length away from you? Who in their sane mind would ever want to put a touchscreen display upright???

For millions of years, humans have been working directly on the objects of their work. Cutting, pounding, slicing, grinding, polishing, writing, drawing; they used hand tools and interacted directly with those objects. Then, some fourty years ago, someone cooked up this counter-intuitive, completely awkward system whereby you would press buttons on some device (they called it 'keyboard', just like those musical keyboards), and something seemingly completely unrelated would happen on a glowing surface some feet away. Somehow, over the years, we all learned to correlate these two events and use this totally unintuitive concept. Generations of humans are now capable of rather quickly learning to work on one device and receive feedback on another.

(Multi)Touch screens will bring back the most intuitive way to work. We'll have 24" (or 30") studio display - sized screens which will be lying on our desks (perhaps not much unlike the 'Big-ass Table'), with which we'll interact the way our great-grandfathers used to interact with work on their desks. Zero learning curve.

If anyone wishes to do any iCal-ing, here's one for you: In five years, Apple's entire computing line will be keyboardless and mouseless. From iPhone, all the way to iMacs and Mac Pros, with 30" displays. Mac OS X will still be OS X, and user interface will be as intuitive as iPhone OS X. And it will be nothing like Windows Tablet, or HP's touch-screen computers. It will be done right.

Another article based on nothing more than guesses...

Aug 25, 08 - 05:32 pm Comment from: Predrag

Well, vast majority of articles about Apple's new products are based on guesses, since, as we all know very well, Apple doesn't talk about their new products.

This is perfectly valid type of journalism. It isn't called reporting the news; it is called providing analysis and opinion.

Aug 25, 08 - 05:56 pm Comment from: ken1w

@shen

> you say tomato, or rather desktop vs tablet, and i say "who cares they are all running OS X.

Who cares? There is a huge difference. They may be "OS X," but the interface is completely different between a Mac and iPhone. The interface is what makes Apple products succeed, and Apple is too smart to simply patch up the Mac desktop interface to work on a touchscreen computer. That's Microsoft's game.

Aug 25, 08 - 06:45 pm Comment from: shen

"Who cares? There is a huge difference. They may be "OS X," but the interface is completely different between a Mac and iPhone. The interface is what makes Apple products succeed, and Apple is too smart to simply patch up the Mac desktop interface to work on a touchscreen computer. That's Microsoft's game."

which is exactly what predrag and i are both saying.

over and over people pan the touch screen because the current interface model doesn't work on it.

did Apple use the current interface model for the iPhone? no. it wouldn't work. so why do you all keep assuming they will use the current interface model for a touchpad style of working? that would be stupid. and people keep pointing it out....

so why not use an interface that actually works on that style of system, and create a whole new model?

they seem to be trying hard, but all the mindless zombies keep saying it will never work.

....i guess that is why they are doing it in little steps. so that some day you will all look back and see this as a natural evolution you where involved with rather than the reality. that you fought it every step of the way.

what vision!

new rule, none of you who totally fail to have even enough imagination to consider this can ever make fun of Bill Gates again. after all, you all seem to think just like him!

I've been reading some other articles on possible Apple tablets that was posted on the internet today. Just google for em if you want to read.
Its looking more and more like the great iTablet or MacTouch will be debuting at MacWorld 09. This september will be about ipods for sure and quite possibly new macbooks. No tablet in 2008. :(
Oh well, most of the year is gone already so we might as well sit tight till MacWorld. OMGZ I can't waittttttt but for some reason I'm enjoying the torture! :D

Actually, Apple already has a design that is perfect, ergonomically, for a touchscreen Mac. It is the "iLamp" iMac. I am using one right now.

It has a wonderful, and wonderfully smooth, articulating arm: with one finger, you can pull the LCD forward about six or eight inches and down to about an inch above the surface of your desk; the LCD "floats" there above the desk at a perfect distance for using touch gestures. It is basically limitlessly and effortlessly adjustable. Then, with a finger you can slide it back to "desktop" height and distance.

People forget- many hated the new "computer behind the LCD" iMac when it first came out- because it was so poorly adjustable by comparison to the previous model.

If you've never tried moving the screen of one of these iMacs, you should- it really is a revelation. It has perfect ergonomics and mechanics. Apple could easily build a cooler, sleeker version of the "iLamp" with a touchscreen. A "desktop tablet".

Aug 25, 08 - 06:57 pm Comment from: Tommyr

Sure, I won't buy one but sure. My main PC needs the keyboard and mouse. Leave multi-touch for handhelds....

Aug 25, 08 - 07:00 pm Comment from: iamdj

If my iMac had multi-touch, I would NEVER leave my desk... if you know what I'm sayin' grrrooOOoowwww!

Aug 25, 08 - 07:10 pm Comment from: ken1w

@ Olternaut

> This september will be about ipods for sure and quite possibly new macbooks. No tablet in 2008.

No tablet? The iPod touch is a small tablet computer. And it's an iPod. If there is a new version of an iPod touch (or one with a larger screen), there's your "tablet."

Even in 2009, Apple is not going to be releasing a "Mac" tablet computer. That's why Apple has no problem with the Axiotron Modbook

http://axiotron.com/index.php?id=modbook

and is even cooperating with Axiotron to support the standard warranty for the MacBook parts they use. Apple's eventual tablet computer will be the evolution of the iPod touch and iPhone, not a Mac.

Aug 25, 08 - 07:20 pm Comment from: jarrettdailynews

Again, for all you idiots that don't get it. Apple isn't creating a touch screen monitor/iMac. It isn't going to happen. Will they create a device the size of a keyboard (or about) that works like the remote app for iPhone/Ipod Touch, absolutely.

July 4th, I took 200 photos of the fireworks show here in Tucson, I took these photos with my iPhone. Try taking that many pictures with your iPhone and see how sore your shoulders get. Now after you do that you will understand why none of us will ever be standing or sitting in front of a screen that requires you to constantly swipe and pinch. It isn't going to happen.

Aug 25, 08 - 07:21 pm Comment from: jarrettdailynews

Or go use the HP touch computer, whatever it is called. And you will see how a great thought turns into a disaster of a product.

I'll take a physical keyboard that has a touchscreen surface instead of keys.

That will be more than enough. I've played around on the HP PC with the touch screen monitor. It's not all that it's cracked up to be.

Aug 25, 08 - 07:35 pm Comment from: alansky

""Apple needs to embrace the fact that many people prefer touch-screen technology..."

This guy is totally (like TOTALLY) out to lunch. What is this so-called touch-screen Mac going to look like? An ergomically viable form factor hasn't been invented yet. Maybe Apple will invent one someday, but that day is still far in the future imho. People cannot possibly "prefer" something they have never used. An iPhone is similar to a touch-screen Macintosh the way a pineapple is similar to a screwdriver.

It's simply practical and realistic to think that they will very soon release all Multi-Touch iMacs, MacBook's and other products. It would be dumb for them not to.

Aug 25, 08 - 07:54 pm Comment from: Hm...

Perhaps a little bit more over the edge, but touchscreen seems to be yesterday's gee-whiz. Tomorrow is the interface from sci-fi: a Minority Report virtual input is actually technically feasible now. But the software is what needs to catch up.

So what *is* Apple working on that they can't let out yet? Specious speculation spews sporadically from the hacks with nothing else to write.

Mac's should have a touch screen - a touch screen mouse!

The size of a mouse pad, the user can tap a mirror image of the deskstop! I don't want my fingerprints all over my computer screen, but the mousepad can be wiped after finishing tasks, if needed.

On the new macbook pros, this new touch mouse replaces the touch pad. Double-tap to move the cursor to desired location. Hold down and scroll pages with a fingertip.

The new Macbook Pro Elite featurs a fullsized touch screen, replacing the keyboard. Tapping a selected corner of the touch screen toggles the keyboard to a mirror image of the LED allowing the user full touch access to the screen without smudging the LED!!! Perfect for arts and entertainment pros and those that don't need the pressure of keys to aid in typing.

THIS WILL HAPPEN!!!

No. I don't see how having to touch the screen when it's farther than arm's length away from me is going to be helpful.

Aug 25, 08 - 08:24 pm Comment from: Predrag

Mark,

You're onto something here....

Who in their right mind would ever want to have a touch screen upright, at arm's length???

Let me try to spell this out a bit more specifically, since obviously many here aren't able to imagine how touchscreen-only Mac would work:

The display would be thin, flat and HORISONTAL. It would be lying flat on your desk, just like an old-fashioned spreadsheet, a legal pad or a book. You'd be working with it precisely the same way you would an ordinary legal pad, piece of paper, a book, a spreadsheet, etc.

Is anyone here able to figure this out now.

Aug 25, 08 - 08:52 pm Comment from: bond co. stooge

I think you're right on the money, Predrag, but I don't think it will take five years.

Aug 25, 08 - 08:56 pm Comment from: bond co. stooge

I work with a lot of audio for fun--I would LOVE to have Logic work on a device like Predrag describes. Multi-touch faders and knobs woo hoo! Plenty of other great ideas out there as well, once you accept the inevitability of a paradigm shift.

Aug 25, 08 - 09:41 pm Comment from: ericdano

Touch Keyboard. That is what they will do. Who the hell wants to smudge up their monitors or HDTVs or whatever? I don't.

I own a busy pharmacy. I have worked on several different pharmacy systems one of which was touch screen based. We were evaluating several systems that were currently operating in stores in order to upgrade our store.

When we watched the touch screen system, it was really neat. It got me excited and served to sway my decision to install that system.

Now, of course, there are many variables that factor in the actual performance of "systems". I gave a greater weight to touch screen ability than I gave to other factors, so that did affect our purchasing decision. However, we were only able to test the touch screen system for about 1 hour. It was fun and exciting while we were there and I couldn't wait to get it installed.

It took only 1 week of full-time use to realize that the touch screen system was not what we needed. It wore us out physically. And that was just the touch screen part. (I would say that it did help with our exercise program though!) After 10 days, we were dying and had to beg another vendor to put us front and center to get another system installed ASAP. I would say that most of the problem was directly related to the pharmacy software programming itself not to the touch screen. After careful consideration and some real world experience, I would say to be real cautious and deliberate before jumping into another data entry paradigm. We are not at Star Trek levels yet. (Although I would love to have a transporter!!!!)

My wife and I have an iPhone. And we love them. But, honestly, I do not like to type on the touchscreen. I am a touch typist for the most part and would love to have an easier way to enter data. Voice(iSqueak), eye movement(iEye), body signals and gestures (iShrug) need to all be implemented. Way down the road probably brain waves or some kind of nerve synaptic interface will be utilized (iBrain). But for now we just move incrementally ahead.

So, until then, type away.

@Predrag
I guess we're all too stupid to see the brilliance of what you can foresee, because none of us knew that you are in the prone position when you work at your computer.

What makes the Mac experience is mostly the software ... the OS.

You can invent the greatest computer on the planet [read: the greatest hardware], but when the OS that runs it is wanting; well, you just loose out in the long run.

The proof is in the pudding.

Aug 25, 08 - 10:39 pm Comment from: Predrag

to Upright:

It seems that you didn't quite understand the concept. The computer of today splits your work into two components: one where you interact with it by providing input, the other, completely separate, that provides feedback. Current paradigm requires ordinary, upright seating, with the input device located below one's hands, and feedback device at eye level, about arm's length away.

However, before we learned to use these devices, we all used ordinary notebooks (and today's generations still do that in school) writing stuff in. We do that seated at a desk, slightly leaning forward, against that desk, looking down at our work.

I'm not sure where you inferred prone position from this.

Aug 25, 08 - 11:18 pm Comment from: jarrettdailynews

No touch screen desktop anything.