MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Jun 18, 09 - 04:09 pm Comment from: Wandering Joe

Ohh to be a chair salesman in Redmond!!

Jun 18, 09 - 04:17 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

I can't wait to read the comments from the IT wannabes who show up here from time to time espousing Windows and eschewing OS X.

The historically "All Microsoft" culture of IT is rapidly changing. The emerging "best practice" of IT departments is a more heterogeneous approach where Apple will not have a much more significant role (and no manufacturer will have an exclusive role).

The value proposition of Apple's XServe and Mac OS X Server technologies, with their excellent hardware, ease of trainability, and lack of recurring license fees is increasingly sexy for IT departments, who, as cost centers, are always being asked to do more with less.

Microsoft has squandered their hegemony over the years by ignoring their products and abusing their customers. Their glory days are behind them, and it's only a matter of time before big enterprise IT figures out that they can indeed prosper without an all-MS shop.

Eventually, given a free marketplace, the better product will rise...

Jun 18, 09 - 04:40 pm Comment from: Winston

The wow starts now — just not the wow Ballmer expected.

You wouldn't have seen that headline 2 years ago. It would have been inconceivable. There's no arguing about there being a tipping point now. We are past it!

Jun 18, 09 - 04:48 pm Comment from: Road Warrior

From what I have read, if Windows 7 is a decent operating system the IT people should flock back to it if they want to maintain their empires and god like status.

Organisations that switch to Mac servers will find that they can get rid of their IT departments. Oh they might still need to keep a couple around but all they will need is supply of comic books and a shirt with a label "No this is not the Maytag repairman."

Jun 18, 09 - 04:49 pm Comment from: Gordon Horne

A single survey is suspect, but I do believe that when the Windows exodus begins it will be very rapid.

An exodus seems inevitable. Look at the three main complaints about Vista: sluggish, too many versions, susceptible to bugs. How does Microsoft respond? They say Windows 7 is faster, but independent tests suggest it isn't significantly faster to the naked eye and is not as fast as XP. There are just as many versions. It is still based on the same core architecture and therefore will have many of the same potential vulnerabilities even if it manages to look more "modern".

J. Scott

Here's what the real headline says if you click the link to the article:

Can Windows 7 save PCs?
Microsoft's new operating system is coming this fall, but experts say a PC rebound is a ways away -- and will happen in spite of the new software.

If Microsoft had swallowed their pride, gone back to the XP codebase, and started again from there - Windows 7 might have had a chance.

But since Windows 7 is based on the Vista codebase, it'll almost certainly encounter the same chilly response Vista did. And the behind-the-scenes turmoil at Microsoft (the firings, the lack of accountability in upper management, the low morale) won't help things.

Jun 18, 09 - 04:57 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

"U.S. PC sales won't rebound past 2008 levels until 2011."

And probably everything else also, dammit.

Alec, you're right! I should have clicked.

However, headline or not, to have 50% of IT guys even considering possibly bailing on MS is amazing.

I see Windows 7 as their last chance to pull a rabbit out of the hat before a full-scale avalanche starts. At some point things will have to give. I believe if they don't get it right this time it's over.

Jun 18, 09 - 05:21 pm Comment from: drz

Problem remains that short sighted managers who only understand Windows are making hardware purchase decisions. In this economy, a Dell box for $500 running basic office software makes financial sense from their perspective. For many businesses, investing in Mac hardware requires a compelling reason, as total cost of ownership is not obvious to most.

We had our private K12 school transition to Mac a year ago, and the "buy in" is still being questioned by IT and staff.

Jun 18, 09 - 05:27 pm Comment from: Macdoc

We are dumping 2 Sun 10 boxes for 2 Mac OS X server on with 4 Xserve RAIDs (the last ones out the door before Apple stop selling them, all max out to 14TB each) and XSan. Another part of our organization dumped 30 WinXp boxes for Mac Pro's with 2 Mac X Severs and new RAIDs. We already had more then 50 Mac Pros on two sites. Sorry I can't tell you where I work, cause I would have to KILL YOU!!!

Jun 18, 09 - 05:33 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Whatever. Do you MAC sheep really think IT professionals will replace secure, productive and stable Windows PCs with proprietary and expensive toy MACs? Our receptionist Millie is comfortable with Windows. She uses Microsoft Word to layout the monthly office birthday chart with some pleasant clip-art. That way we know what days there are treats in the breakroom. Who's going to train her to do that on MAC? Losers.

Your potential. Our passion.™

IT folks say this in a survey, and will talk a big game, but only to save a buck in the end, and to "appear" objective.

In reality, they will do 5 minutes of investigation and determine that OS X does not run these top 15 critical applications for their corporation, and the costs to find alternatives, train employees and revamp the entire workflow will not match the move to Win 7.

If 2% of all corporate IT groups switch to OS X for the desktop I'll be shocked.

Jun 18, 09 - 05:37 pm Comment from: R

MDN does a service by offering more Apple-positive headlines when for years it's basically only been Windows-entrenched garbage that gets prominence.

This is psychologically important to legitimize Apple even further.

Jun 18, 09 - 05:41 pm Comment from: jocknerd

My work is right on schedule. 10 years behind. We are just starting to migrate completely to Microsoft technology. You know:

Server 2008
Exchange 2007
Sharepoint (MOSS)
Office 2007

$1 million of our taxpayer dollars. Yes, I'm a city gov't employee.

Jun 18, 09 - 05:42 pm Comment from: HolyMackerel

It has taken a decade but now there is finally a decent 'business-friendly' non-MS solution for almost everything a business needs.

MacOS X is a better alternative OS. Apple hardware is arguably more reliable and better supported than clones. FireFox is better than IE. OpenOffice is not as good as Office but it is passable. Google Exchange is much cheaper, more flexible and more 'modern' than Exchange. The iPhone is a much better phone OS than WinCE. SL is a better Exchange client than Outlook. The Cloud is a cheaper storage solution than the data warehouse. The internet is faster, cheaper, more reliable and more ubiquitous than everything piping through the company VPN. Everything is moving so fast to the Cloud (even MS solutions) that XP, W7, even MacOS X is less relevant than FireFox. The future is small hardware with excellent software.

With the downturn, the move to laptops from desktops and more people working from home means more employers than ever are buying and choosing their own PCs. Now they have a choice, more will choose Apple hardware and software.

IT is not scared of MS anymore. Fear no longer keeps IT faithful. MS has too far to catch up. MS' only real successes are arguably legacy software purchasers, mice/keyboards and the XBox. There is no clear MS future other than chasing others' success and maintaining high software prices and low hardware prices for as long as possible.

Jun 18, 09 - 05:49 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

@R

…it's basically only been Windows-entrenched garbage that gets prominence.

Easy with the wild conspiracy theories, partner. IT and technology reporting has boldly and courageously told the truth about Windows superiority despite MAC astroturfers' attempts to squash it. You are entitled to your opinion, but facts are facts.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Jun 18, 09 - 06:23 pm Comment from: alansky

@Zune Tang:

You're lost in the wilderness, buddy. And the lions are hungry.

Jun 18, 09 - 06:23 pm Comment from: Sky

@Road Warrior:

"From what I have read, if Windows 7 is a decent operating system the IT people should flock back to it if they want to maintain their empires and god like status."

Good observation. I'll add that any corporation that tries to prop up the 15-year-old IT model, with its huge associated costs, does so at their own peril. Windows 7 can indeed have a prominent seat at the table, but it's unlikely MS (or any one vendor) will be able to dominate the IT rulebook to the degree they once did. Today's companies simply cannot afford to be locked into the old model.

Jun 18, 09 - 08:05 pm Comment from: Brulek

While it sounds goods...I find it hard to believe...Too good to be true perhaps.

Another laughable and predictable "story" on the impending implosion of M$ in IT. I swear, none of these people have ever seen let alone worked in a corporate environment--they think a mom and pop shop moving to a handful of Mac Pros from Dell workstations constitutes a significant IT organization.

When Apple cares enough about enterprise computing as they do consumer computing/media--including support systems, roadmaps, developer support, et al., then M$ will have something to worry about, but until then, it's still a Windows world in the business space.

"IT folks say this in a survey, and will talk a big game, but only to save a buck in the end, and to "appear" objective.

In reality, they will do 5 minutes of investigation and determine that OS X does not run these top 15 critical applications for their corporation, and the costs to find alternatives, train employees and revamp the entire workflow will not match the move to Win 7.

If 2% of all corporate IT groups switch to OS X for the desktop I'll be shocked."

Exactly. I would say the same thing if it shaved points off of our corporate contracts with Tier One suppliers.

Jun 18, 09 - 09:42 pm Comment from: qka

I predict my employer will be the next-to-last 100% Microsoft shop.

(Microsoft itself will be the last.)

Jun 18, 09 - 10:22 pm Comment from: Sky

@Another IT Guy:

The roadmap Microsoft offered was Vista and look what happened.

Regarding training, Apple has an easier challenge than Microsoft to the degree that they implement open standards, whereas Microsoft must train IT people to adopt and support their proprietary standards.

What are the top 15 critical apps you're referring to? Apple has already adopted Exchange and is data compatible with Office XML formats. SQL is the open standard for databases (not Access). So what's left?

"Users complain that Vista ... is susceptible to bugs..."

- Winner of the 'Understatement of the Decade' Award.

Jun 18, 09 - 11:33 pm Comment from: MacSheikh

"The WTF Starts Now!" :-D

@Zune Tang (and all other Windoze believers)

Explain this please.... "Life Without Walls".... if such is the paradigm your Druid is brewing, then why does the world need "Windows"?... Get?.... Windows are required only when there are walls.... ?

Jun 19, 09 - 01:35 am Comment from: Predrag

Maximum Overdrive:

Self-selecting surveys are meaningless. The ones you seem to quote are surveys of people who CHOSE to participate. As an iMac and MB user who totally enjoys his glossy screen, I had no reason, nor motivation, to participate in a survey about matte screens. Neither did vast majority of users who actually prefer their glossy screens.

Do you honestly believe that Apple has no clue what majority prefers? Do you really believe they would rather lose that many sales than make matte screens? Do you not remember that, until two years ago, matte were ONLY options on Macs? Meanwhile, Windows PCs were available both in matte AND glossy. And guess what, they sold glossy much, much more than matte. And now the same thing happened with MBP -- vast majority wanted glossy.

So, yes, Apple may have made a mistake by not offering an option of getting a matte screen on smaller MBPs (for additional charge). But if they had to drop one entirely for the other, they made the right choice of glossy.

Jun 19, 09 - 01:35 am Comment from: almux

Finally crackles become visible!

I prefer glossy screens, but I do understand that some people don't. Apple probably should offer the option. But having said that, what ALL WAYS amazes me about the comments here and other places is the amount of "Apple should've, or Apple aught to...." comments. My favorites are along the lines of "Apple made a mistake by..."

Almost everyone here holds Apple's product development, sales and marketing, styling, software, and on and on as the industry's best,and with a control freak with a great command to detail. Is it so hard to believe that Apple might also have a top notch marketing research department too? Obviously they do, so the opinions expressed by all the amateur marketing "experts" here are just too funny.

Jun 19, 09 - 07:11 am Comment from: Mr.Fergus

IT Pros, now there's an Oxymoron for you, IT people are only interested in keeping their jobs, to do so they will spread FUD 6 feet deep if they have to. IT people are like republicans, cheats and self serving liars, trust them at your own risk.

Jun 19, 09 - 07:36 am Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

@ 'Predrag' & ' jaundiced',

Thanks for the logic and common sense. Some of these guys seem to possess neither when it comes to this subject.

Jun 19, 09 - 08:39 am Comment from: Road Warrior

Thanks Sky. I still get bemused by some IT professionals. It goes even further. I recently asked for some quotes for a server including both Windows and Mac servers. None of them gave me a quote for a Mac. That's OK though, I have 3 top of the line Macs now in the business and it takes just a few minutes to wow the staff. They now reserve one of the machines that I have made available because they realize how much faster they can get some real work done. I am in the door and a few years from now I will have them on a mixed system.

While, as you point out, organizations that go with the 15 year old model do so at their peril, many will. Look at the auto industry, banks and the lot. Old model, and the fear of change.

Right now for example Americans are complaining about jobs going offshore. Wait a bit longer and soon you will see foreign companies hiring Americans at rock bottom prices. Do you want to be unemployed or work for a pittance for a foreign company. There will be line ups.

Funny, age doesn't have a thing to do with it. Apple is constantly reinventing itself, there are no rules for them...only the goal.

Personally I find that inspiring.

Jun 19, 09 - 10:02 am Comment from: LordRobin

If my employer is typical, I don't see an exodus happening anytime soon. We are a "computer on every desk" company. The company relies on being able to play Dell against HP against Lenovo in order to get the best price for the thousands of PC. Being tied to one hardware manufacturer would be a mistake in their view.

On the other hand, they don't seem to mind being tied to one software manufacturer. We have at least 3, if not more, mission-critical applications that are run through Internet Explorer. The expense of migrating away from those apps will be a large barrier to running anything but Windows at the desk.

Now, at the server level, I could see us moving to Mac OS X, since we already do some Linux for serving. But moving our basic infrastructure from Windows to Mac? Can't see it happening.

------RM

Jun 19, 09 - 11:38 am Comment from: Simba7

I'm not bashing Mac at all.

Mac is a good operating system, but a hell of a learning curve for most people. I deal with Windows (running 7 right now), Linux, and *BSD, so running OS X should be rather easy.

I'm running Windows 7 (build 7137) right now and it's quite stable. I hated Vista due to it being sluggish on my ol' Thinkpad R40 and switched back to XP. When b7100 came out, I was quite impressed. My laptop ran it just fine, even with the XP drivers and everything worked perfectly. No problems at all.

If anyone here compared the latest RC to Vista, I'm sure it'd be a night and day situation. Even on old hardware (I also have it running on a P3@700MHz), it runs nice and smooth. Just make sure you have the memory (I have 512MB in my P3 and 2GB in my Thinkpad).

If Apple would actually release their software to work on ALL systems, then maybe people would like to try it out instead of HAVING to buy a Mac. It would also prevent tons of eWaste.

Jun 19, 09 - 12:11 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

"If Apple would actually release their software to work on ALL systems, then maybe people would like to try it out instead of HAVING to buy a Mac."

Do you actually see anything logical in that statement?

Mac? LEARNING CURVE?

Um... Since Windows is a shameless rip-off of NeXT OS and various incarnations of the Mac OS, the learning curve is negligable when going from Windows -> OS X, and mostly has to do with adjusting to the Dock vs the Task Bar.

Well, that and trying to unlearn the conditioning ingrained in every Windows user which states that everything must be done in the most complicated and least intuitive way imaginable.

Oh yeah, and just as a funny aside, I run Windows 9x on my Thinkpad R40 because I find XP to be too bloated and slow.

Jun 19, 09 - 08:03 pm Comment from: MacMarc

Now, if only Apple sold a version of Mac OS X for these Win XP computers!

Jun 19, 09 - 08:09 pm Comment from: Road Warrior

"Mac is a good operating system, but a hell of a learning curve for most people"

What a bunch of croc.

Gosh and what is the Windows operating system then? I just had an IT communications expert try to install some software on our server. Totally screwed up other programs. So we went to a stand alone computer, then another, then another. He had me ripping the guts out of another machine to see if he could change components. He had me try laptops and then his laptop. Three days he tried to get the software up and running. THREE DAYS. And this was an expert.

It gobbled up all the training time alloted so at the end I will have to train myself. Oh and it is still not fully installed. He left me some instructions to complete the job.

Around the same time another software program was installed by another guru, and since then it has done nothing but consume my time with grief trouble shooting it.

On the other hand I just got some Macs set up. It was bliss and now I have staff lining up to use them.