MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Dec 04, 07 - 03:56 pm Comment from: Ampar

I just recycled six Macs when I moved. Tell Greenpees.

Dec 04, 07 - 04:21 pm Comment from: Buster

I feel all fuzzy inside (must be mold from all the trapped moisture).

Dec 04, 07 - 04:30 pm Comment from: MacArch

I always drop the aluminum cans and newspapers in the recycling bin on the way to my H2

Dec 04, 07 - 04:42 pm Comment from: Gandalf

Nah don't believe it, Democrats can't be green too.

Apple users must be bright green then, green as in apple and bright as in glossy screens.

AND smarter...

Dec 04, 07 - 04:48 pm Comment from: eyerhyme

I am environmentally conscious... I even drive a van on filtered waste vegetable oil. Saves me a ton of money! Macs to me also are enviro friendly for many reasons... most old Macs are still working, we are more productive and not fighting some stupid virus off which gives us users more time to do other things, and if companies would wake up to the BS of their IT departments, they would realize how much money they are wasting on the IT department using their electricity, ac, travel, etc.

Dec 04, 07 - 04:49 pm Comment from: Macintosh

People that are "Green" tend to be well informed about the environment and open to new ideas, wouldn't you say?

People that use Macs tend to be well informed, and open to new ideas.

People that use Windows tend to be ignorant. And yes, most people are ignorant.

Yeah and I was really scared about that Y 2 K too.......and the return of the ice age 'front page ny times 1977'..... and the etc etc etc

Nuke the polar bears!

What a crock. Don't break your arms patting yourselves on the back.

Dec 04, 07 - 05:16 pm Comment from: TowerTone

"Survey: ‘Apple users more likely to be green-minded’"

Well, that explains why Frank recycles the same argument....

Dec 04, 07 - 05:17 pm Comment from: Malthus

If 12% of US adults are "bright green" and 14% of Apple users are "bright green", I'd call that a "not significant" variation.

Dec 04, 07 - 05:24 pm Comment from: Brandon Petersen

I'm sick of Greenpeace being the authority on environmental issues. If they really cared about the environment, they would support the proliferation of nuclear power plants and breeder reactors. They support a misinformation campaign that stifles innovation and clean energy. Look at the link: http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/nuclear the ominous looking power plant is a coal plant. You can tell from the smoke stacks. Less radiation escapes a nuclear power plant in a year than you would be exposed to in a single coast to coast flight.

Dec 04, 07 - 05:26 pm Comment from: ron

Global warming is not caused by man. Electric cars cost more resources than the gas to run a regular auto. Green schmeen.

Robin Hood was as green as they come, just like the libs, he robbed the rich and gave it to the lazy. Just like the government - of both stripes.

Love my Mac & iPhone.

Not me.... screw all this environmental whacko crap. Global warming my ass......

That might be true, but Apple goes backward sometimes...

Example: Costco used to sell a $50.00 iTunes card for $44.99 (a 10% discount). You used to grab this big plastic package and take it to the registers, then pick up the actual card at the pickup area. The card itself was a double sized card, but at least the big plastic package stayed with the store and I assume it was reused...

Now they sell a 4 pack of $15 iTunes cards for $56.99 (a 5% discount) in a plastic box which is activated at the checkout, so we don't have to go to the pickup window. Not only is there double the amount of plastic with the 4 cards vs the old double card, but now the plastic box goes home with us.

I think this is a step backwards... Maybe the 5% discount that we no longer get is being donated to recycling efforts, but I doubt it...

Big deal, what's news.

It's the same as saying Windows has the bulk of low IQ'ers.

Which we also know is true.

Dec 04, 07 - 05:42 pm Comment from: Gandalf

Global warming, maybe, maybe not. Wrong argument. CO2 not the worst offender anyway, ever heard of NOX? Digging stuff up from below ground and shoving it in to the atmosphere is caused by man though.

Simplify things so that people think that they know, then they can carry on being good consumers and working hard to pay for it.

Knowledge - cost of a Mac and broadband, Understanding - priceless.

There is no energy crisis, ask Tesla. Free energy for all, oops, that upsets the profits, better withdraw the funding. What else can we do to push the oil price up.....?

My Macs are greener that most PCs, tiny mini, tower 5 years old, s/h iBook. Less noise pollution too.

What is the point of registering your name on MDN if others can use your name anyway?

This isn't Ampar of course....

Dec 04, 07 - 05:48 pm Comment from: DakRoland

I'm a Mac user, have been for about 7 years now. I learned about Environmental Conservation when I was in Boy Scouts as a kid. While I do not have a degree in Science, I am Science minded and have many close relatives in Scientific fields. Not a single one of us believes that the Global Warming of recent years is caused by man. I have long suspected and now with recent evidence believe, that planetary warming and cooling trends are more closely tied to increased or decreased Solar Activity. Man has a more direct impact on his local surroundings and common sense should always prevail when it comes to being stewards of our planet. But giving in to hysteria and hype, especially when the science of Climate Change is such a young field of study and is constantly evolving with new evidence comes to light, is a terribly naive and costly thing to do. Global Warming as an issue is more politically and monetarily driven, rather than scientifically understood at this stage.

Dec 04, 07 - 05:55 pm Comment from: TowerTone

But, Dak, what about the computer models, like these?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073747/

Dec 04, 07 - 06:09 pm Comment from: Jim - TIV

Tower - that earlier post was funny right there, I don't care who you are.

Dec 04, 07 - 06:26 pm Comment from: Woody

Ron, get your head out of your arse, er, the sand:

http://www.teslamotors.com/efficiency/well_to_wheel.php
http://www.teslamotors.com/efficiency/environmental_benefits.php

Read a few more bits on that site to complete your education. One thing not mentioned there, though, is this little gem: "A nation of 100% hybrids is still a nation 100% dependent on petroleum." With electric vehicles (the Tesla gets 245 mi per charge, btw), the source of the electricity is unimportant: solar, wind, tidal, nuclear, or even coal -- hopefully the cleaner kind. And, you should note, its easier to clean up a relative few coal power plants than millions of exhaust pipes.

Working in the agriculture industry this past year has really brought home that we can't grow enough corn and soybeans to both fuel our cars and feed ourselves. Let me know and I'll provide the details. As for hydrogen, the infrastructure is totally nonexistent, yet there's electricity practically everywhere.

And yes, you can directly charge an electric car with solar panels -- Tesla's partnering with Solar City so owners get zero-cost electricity for their driving. And it's a pretty nice bonus that that free power in a Tesla will smoke most stuff on the road.

Guess this comment means I'm on of those bright green Mac users.

Dec 04, 07 - 06:37 pm Comment from: ron

Hey you with the Woody. "Ron, get your head out of your arse, er, the sand:"

I can't, I'm recharging. Follow the money.

Dec 04, 07 - 06:38 pm Comment from: TowerTone

Woody, that last line was funny.

Dec 04, 07 - 06:42 pm Comment from: Ampar

"What is the point of registering your name on MDN if others can use your name anyway?

This isn't Ampar of course.... "

I'm honored in a slightly creeped out sort of way. But good to know.

Oh, and um <looks down shirt>, this is me.

Dec 04, 07 - 06:48 pm Comment from: effwerd

I'm sick of Greenpeace being the authority on environmental issues.

Well, calm down then because they aren't. Environmental scientists don't consult Greenpeace. Policy makers (well, sane policy makers) don't consult Greenpeace.

Dec 04, 07 - 06:52 pm Comment from: effwerd

I am Science minded and have many close relatives in Scientific fields. Not a single one of us believes that the Global Warming of recent years is caused by man.

Now that is some comprehensive statistical analysis right there. I'm convinced.

Brandon Petersen,
Nuclear power definitely isn't clean. During a plant's life, there is tonnes of deadly radioactive waste which remains deadly for tens of thousands of years and we haven't worked out an effective way to deal with this waste. At the end of the plant's life, there's an enormous amount of radioactive waste that needs to be disposed of.
Clean coal is a crock of shit - it involves pumping the carbon dioxide underground. And we know what happens when there's a sudden out-gassing of CO2 from volcanos and calderas - total annihilation of every living (non-plant) thing within the gas cloud's reach.
Earthquakes, land slides, bedrock subsidence, pressure fracturing, blasting, meteor impact - out comes all that gas or in the case of an underground nuclear waste disposal site, contamination of ground water and the atmosphere. Very much a potential time bomb.
Want to save the planet? Buy clean energy produced by solar, wind, wave, tidal, geo-thermal and hydro. It costs a little more, but you seriously won't notice.
Only drive when you absolutely have to.
Don't drive to the corner shop, walk and take the dog if you have one - it's healthier for the mind and body.
Use public transport or ride a bike.
Say no to plastic bags and take your own bags when you go shopping.
Choose products with minimal packaging which is recyclable.
Buy clothes made from hemp.
Buy less, save more.
Invest your dollars in environmentally friendly companies - they are the ones which will be making big dollars in the future.
Boycott companies with atrocious environmental and/or human rights records, such as Exxon-Mobil, Shell, Nestle, BHP-Billington, Coca-Cola to name a few.
Eat sensibly, exercise and don't over-indulge in your favourite vice/s.
Ditch sugary fizzy water drinks and bottled water and take a bottle of tap water or fruit juice instead.
Turn the lights off.
Replace old energy hog appliances with efficient ones.
Grow your own fruit and vegetables - it's fun to get into the garden, and you know exactly what you are eating and the food will have a zero carbon footprint.
Conserve water - clean water is the most precious commodity on Earth.
If it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown, flush it down.

Follow these very simple things, and you'll have a healthier lifestyle, you'll feel better for it, and your doing your little bit to make the air you breath cleaner.

Who seriously wants to breath dirty smoggy air?

Dec 04, 07 - 07:09 pm Comment from: ron

"walk and take the dog if you have one " Clean up the poo.

"Buy clothes made from hemp" Yeah - riiight!

12 percent of U.S. adults are 'bright green,'...

Alien hybrids.

Believe.

Of course we know Al Gore isn't "green".

Just look carefully at this picture and count the wasted energy.

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/media/2007/05/al-gore-desk.jpg

Dec 04, 07 - 07:30 pm Comment from: mike_in_helsinki

MDN, please, cut the politicizing of the Mac platform with these kind of silly articles.

Is there no subject that we can enjoy without the unnecessary encroachment of polarizing politics?

Dec 04, 07 - 07:49 pm Comment from: Mac4lfe

The only green I like is the kind I spend on my Macs and iPhone and oh yeah, My big V-Twin Harley..

Dec 04, 07 - 07:58 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

"Global warming is not caused by man."

Look out folks, the scientist has weighed in. It's a relief, frankly. I was worried that I'd have to give up my coal-fired itty-bitty book lite.

Dec 04, 07 - 08:02 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Mac4lfe

My bigger flat-6 Valkyrie gets better milage. And it buries Evos. =)

Dec 04, 07 - 08:08 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Pete

As has been stated before, all three of those monitors together use about 450 watts. About the same as the average PC power supply.

Dec 04, 07 - 08:38 pm Comment from: ibookfast

Stuart, I agree with your observations. But we also need more macro solutions like regulating the economy to reward corporations when they solve problems at the source.

Legalizing hemp would be a boon for the economy as well as easing our abuse of the environment. Unfortunately their are business interests who are threatened by hemp including paper companies, pharmaceutical companies, alcohol producing companies, tobacco companies, oil companies, plus we've got a huge complex of government agencies also threatened by its legalization, like the courts, prisons, and the myriad of policing agencies. I suppose drug dealers wouldn't like it either.

The best thing to do with the nuclear industry is pack it up, contain in a rocket, and send to the sun for incineration... that idea courtesy of Buckminster Fuller.

Dec 04, 07 - 08:46 pm Comment from: silverhawk

As Mac users we are then "bright green with envy" concerning what?

Or we are bright folks who are green with envy?

Dec 04, 07 - 09:03 pm Comment from: effwerd

Now, I'm all for cannabis legalization but I got to tell you: clothes made of hemp suck, there is already hemp paper on the market (and it sucks, too), and THC has been synthesized.

Dec 04, 07 - 09:03 pm Comment from: Brandon Petersen

Stuart,

Nuclear power is not perfect. But Breeder reactors nearly are. Unfortunately Jimmy Carter signed a stupid executive order in 1976 banning any reprocessing of nuclear waste. This effectively banned the use of breeder reactors, which produce about 1/1000 of the waste of conventional reactors and the remaining waste has a half-life of 40-50 years. Hence the reason I mentioned breeder reactors in my original post.

However, even conventional nuclear power plants have a lower overall environmental impact than solar, wind, or other crock energy sources.

Dec 04, 07 - 09:05 pm Comment from: ibookfast

Hemp clothes are great, very breathable, last longer, and filter the sun's radiation better.

Dec 04, 07 - 09:08 pm Comment from: TowerTone

"But we also need more macro solutions like regulating the economy to reward corporations when they solve problems at the source."

Luckily, that is built into our national OS. It is called Core Profit.

Dec 04, 07 - 09:10 pm Comment from: effwerd

The best thing to do with the nuclear industry is pack it up, contain in a rocket, and send to the sun for incineration... that idea courtesy of Buckminster Fuller.

Um, that's not what you should've taken out of his statement. It wasn't meant as a proposition, it was meant as a unreasonable conlcusion. Here is the quote:

The would-be exploiters of atomic energy on board our planet earth will in due course discover there is no way for them to solve atomic- energy-radiation waste disposal problems save by rocketing it all back to the sun, where it belongs.

Please, don't ever misrepresent Bucky like that again.

Yes, I'm very green-minded. MONEY, MONEY, and Mo' MONEY!!!!

MW = enough. Sheesh!

Dec 04, 07 - 09:47 pm Comment from: Road Warrior

Nice to see so many people think that global warming is a fantasy, which actually it is. So keep on burning those fossil fuels and releasing those toxic chemicals. More power to you.

I am sure that a lot of people probably don't realize that humans are the only species that produces toxic material not only to itself but every other living species on the planet. That is quite the achievement, since the species doesn't seem to have any other unique features pass an opposable thumb.

So global warming may not be an issue, and you might be forgetting about Katrina, and Hugo and the rest, so relax and enjoy it...while you still can.

Dec 04, 07 - 10:06 pm Comment from: effwerd

Hemp clothes are great, very breathable, last longer, and filter the sun's radiation better.

This is a really stupid point to press but I must. Notice: soft is not in the description. Also absent: supple. There is a reason you can find plenty of hemp twine and rope but no hemp bath robes or pajamas. And it has nothing to do with some powerful DuPont lobby. There is no powerful paper lobby behind criminlized cannabis either.

And seriously, any tightly woven textile can provide adequate protection against UV, the thicker the better. I'd also be interested in any scientific paper you could link to for this claim. Not because I doubt you, though I do, but because I'm genuinely interested and can't find anything so far.

Dec 04, 07 - 10:08 pm Comment from: Big Al

Carbon dioxide as the agent for global warming or climate change is just ludicrous.

Water vapor is up to 100 times more prevalent in the atmosphere and it's a better greenhouse agent than carbon dioxide.

Water vapor concentrations in the atmosphere can be greatly influenced by tropical rain forests. Equatorial rain forests are being destroyed at an alarming rate. The very humid rain forests are being replaced by dry desert 3 to 5 years after the trees are cut down or burned off.

There is a direct correlation between the destruction of the tropical rain forests over the past 30 years and the climate and average temperature changes over the last 30 years.

The only problem is that most of the countries containing depleted tropical rain forests are very poor and over populated. The only way to get money to replant the rain forests is to extort money from major hydrocarbon users.

Thus the bullshit about carbon dioxide being the cause of global warming or climate change.

And yes, I am a scientist.

I could be an exception. My mind is mostly grey matter, I think.

Woody states:

"Working in the agriculture industry this past year has really brought home that we can't grow enough corn and soybeans to both fuel our cars and feed ourselves."

This sort of ignorance is hard to take, where do you people come up with such nonsense?
I guess the really stupid people don't understand that after alcohol is produce there is still feed value in the grain that was used. For a person who claims to be in agriculture, woody might actually want to visit an ethanol plant (one should be close to his agriculture area). During his visit he might notice that distillers grain leaves the plant at a brisk pace to be feed to livestock, producing plenty of food for our nation, and much of the rest of the world.

Woody might also want to study some numbers on just how much grain is exported per year, then do some math on how much alcohol could be produced before it is shipped out.

Stupid assumptions like "can't grow enough corn to fuel our cars, and feed ourselves..." suggests that woody works for an oil company rather then knows anything about agriculture.

Look, if you don't understand the process of how alcohol is made, and how grain that has been broken down to make alcohol is in many ways BETTER feed for cattle, ect., just stay out of the conversation. You won't have anything useful to add, and just will end up making an ass of yourself.

It is not a choice of food OR fuel. Go educate yourself on the process.