MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Yeah, if you're going to spend the money and engineering talent on creating a keyboard, at LEAST let it be a good one.

May 29, 09 - 03:48 pm Comment from: iPhoner

WTF's up with the buttons?!

May 29, 09 - 03:57 pm Comment from: Macable

So except for the fact that it is a new device, why would anyone choose this over the new iPhone?

After reading the article, it seems that Palm has either: 1) allowed reviewers to review an unfinished product, or 2) allowed reviewers to review a finished (but crappy) product.

Either way, it doesn't bode well for Palm....

So it has a plastic screen? I wonder how that will hold up? My two year old iPhone has never seen a screen protector and I usually carry it in my pocket and it has yet to get scratched.

Any how can they call the UI "brand new...unlike anything else out there."? It looks like EVERYTHING else out there. What's the difference?

Consensus is WebOS is very nice. Of course, there is a pack of engineers and attorneys at Apple waiting to tear into it. Palm better have all its "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed or they are going to be hammered with a Cease and Desist order before the first manufacturing run reaches the Sprint stores.

May 29, 09 - 04:35 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

@Chester,

At the top of this page is the slogan for MacDailyNews:

'where mac news comes first'

It says nothing about Mac news exclusively. Now go away.

May 29, 09 - 04:36 pm Comment from: Predrag

Who's Chester?

Looks like he's gone away, courtesy of a dilligent MDN moderator...

May 29, 09 - 04:38 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

Holy Crap! That's scary! I didn't know I had the power!

May 29, 09 - 04:40 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

Predrag,

There for a minute I thought I was a forum god!

May 29, 09 - 05:39 pm Comment from: iSteve

"One of our friends that checked it out over here said it felt like a Fisher Price toy."

If I were Fisher Price I'd be offended by the comparison. They make great products without having to copy Mattel.

May 29, 09 - 05:52 pm Comment from: Macintosher

To be perfectly honest, this is only one review; however, things don't bode well in my opinion. For the Pre"y", that is. Useful, BGR.

MacDailyNews Take: Those who want a device with a screen that's not as good as the current or previous iteration of the iPhone, with a lousy mechanical keyboard, that feels like "a Fisher Price toy," offers no apps to speak of, and resides exclusively on also-ran carriers in the few countries in which it is available can begin lining up now.

1st-Gen iPhone screens quickly developed "dead spots." If the Pre doesn't, let's call it a draw.

Lousy mechanical keyboard? It sounds like it's the same as previous Palm keyboards, which were in my view great. iPhone's keyboard had nearly every user annoyed/perplexed for months. How much you wanna bet there's no learning curve for this one?

Feels like a "Fisher Price Toy" - It's plastic. Whatcha want?

Offers no apps: Neither did iPhone for more than a year. I betcha Pre has them in less time.

Also-ran carriers: That's what we called AT&T;until.

This review is actually pretty positive. Nothing at all like the skewering MDN wants it to be. Just wait.

May 29, 09 - 06:27 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

"Just wait."

For how long? We're kinda busy ya' know.

May 29, 09 - 06:33 pm Comment from: alansky

MDN's take is spot on. I also agree with the author of the article that excessive hype can really blow up in your face unless you have the goods to back it up. Letter to Palm:

Dear Palm,

R.I.P.

May 29, 09 - 07:45 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

I like my crow with stuffin'.

Lots 'n' lots of stuffin'.

May 29, 09 - 08:17 pm Comment from: Mac Daddy

"1st-Gen iPhone screens quickly developed "dead spots." "

Huh? I got mine on Day One, and except for the first month (shiny new toy!) I've beaten the crap out of it. The screen still displays and responds to touch commands flawlessly. I've never heard of "dead spot" (whatever that means) problems on the iPhone, either.

It was a matter of time before some semi-decent competition showed up for the iPhone. The very success of the iPhone assured that - it created and certified that a large market for smartphones exists.

I'll gladly stick with the iPhone. But the Palm Pre, for its strengths and weaknesses, will bring competition to the marketplace. And competition is what pushes companies like Apple to do even better. I have little doubt that we'll benefit.

Reading different message boards here and elsewhere, I see the usual group of Windows and Linux fanboys, Apple diehards and Apple haters. What's sad is that when people form prejudices, they don't take time to really look at another brand objectively. Such is the case with PC Apologist above. He hates Apple and takes no time to really understand the company, its people or products. He was taught to hate, and that is how he will be. Sad to say, message boards are littered with people like him.

I have no plans to switch to a Palm Pre. I'l gladly play with one, explore its strengths, but I am very happy with what I have.

One word of caution for someone considering a Palm or any other product: when you buy something, be it an Apple, Microsoft, Palm, Chrysler, BMW, Audi, Sony or whatever the manufacturer, you're not just buying a product. You're getting in bed with that company. And if their support is weak, you're stuck. I have been blessed to have had a great relationship with Apple. I've owned Palm and Handspring PDAs in the past, and was very disappointed with their product support. So look beyond the hype and take a hard look a the company with which you will have a relationship. It will make all the difference in the outcome, and not just sexy screens, low prices or feature-rich hardware. If your experience with the company isn't good, nothing will change that.

May 29, 09 - 09:07 pm Comment from: jocknerd

I, for one, will probably be getting a Pre sometime this year. I'd love an iPhone, but I'm on Sprint. And I'm not leaving anytime soon since my wife and I have an unlimited data plan that costs us about $55 per month for the two of us.

I'm glad there is some competition coming. If you are an iPhone fan and user, you should be glad too. Between the Pre and the new Android phones coming this year, along with the new iPhone, its an awesome time to be in the market for mobile devices.

May 29, 09 - 09:09 pm Comment from: ericdano

I too have a 1st Gen iPhone. Thing works flawlessly. No screen dead spots (even after playing hours of games, and stickwar!).

Some people like to spread FUD. Fine. But for the price Palm is asking, it really ought to be better designed.

Of course, as a former owner of a Treo 650, I dropped it ONCE, from a chair, and it messed up the keyboard.....pretty much crippling the phone. So......

May 29, 09 - 09:11 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

"You're getting in bed with that company."

That's a good incentive NOT to buy a MicroSoft product. Just think of Ballmer being in that bed.

May 29, 09 - 09:20 pm Comment from: silverhawk

Ed Zeppelin
Vertiefung gesetzt.

May 29, 09 - 09:25 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

silverhawk,

Hey buddy, d'ya mind translating that for those of us who don't speak French?

May 29, 09 - 10:33 pm Comment from: silverwarloc

I just noticed in one of the screenshots. There's a couple of background covers. One of them are rocks...it looks like one of my background covers on my MBP...the one that came with it originally.

I hope they have good lawyers.

*sniff* *sniff* Must be fear, I smell again.

If you read the review's comments, BGR had to constantly log in to defend his "criticisms" on his own site by his own fans, because even the apple fanbois called his review halfAssed and biased toward the iPhone.

I love the smell of fear in the early morning...

Palm... remember when Apple wanted to buy them? It might have actually accelerated Apple as an electronics company. The Treo was way ahead of its competition, but imagine if they had Steve Jobs, Ives, and the amazing hardware/software engineers?

In that case, the iPhone development might have led to its release in 2005/6 instead of 2007.

Lost opportunity for Palm... and the rest of us... as we had to wait for 2007 for the iPhone.

@drbyers

Fear? Like not having the best phone on the planet? Well, that's always debateable.

Palm is like MS regarding hype, talking and talking about a product not yet available, letting everybody down when they finally deliver (see BGR report).

That's one of the thinks I love about Apple, they're different in every way, and no matter how much others tries to copy them, they fail, because they don't understand the Apple formular.

Fear of not having the coolest gadget? Well, its pretty difficult standing out today as a Apple fan. Seems like everybody join yesterday.

Apple is more than hype Lets see if Palm is, and can do the trick of finding a buyer - it won't be easy.

May 30, 09 - 09:02 am Comment from: Big Als MBP

@ drbyers,

@ PC Apologist,

Two more reviewers without hands on experience with the Pre.

Everyone who doesn't like his review has not seen or touched the Pre. He is the first reviewer of the Pre to actually have used one. There will be many reviewers in days to come. A few will be paid to lie. Most will be honest. If they all reach the same conclusion that TBG did, Palm won't get a second chance.

The fear is all on Palm's side of the fence.

The lack of AT&T;should allow Palm to sell millions.

May 30, 09 - 09:20 am Comment from: twilightmoon

PC Apologist

1st-Gen iPhone screens quickly developed "dead spots." If the Pre doesn't, let's call it a draw.

My iPhone had this problem, but it took over a year and a half to develop. Hopefully this is something Apple has resolved, I wasn't aware this was related to "first gen" iPhones? If Palm has this same problem it might not be immediately obvious, and it might be related to capacitive touch technology in general which Palm uses.

Lousy mechanical keyboard? It sounds like it's the same as previous Palm keyboards, which were in my view great. iPhone's keyboard had nearly every user annoyed/perplexed for months. How much you wanna bet there's no learning curve for this one?

Multiple sources have complained about the keyboard. I do not like mechanical button keyboards, but some do. There are people who do not like the iPhone keyboard, but they are a minority of users. My mom's friend has long fingernails and she can't type on an iPhone because of them, so there's an example there. Certainly your "nearly every user annoyed for months" is way off. My mom and dad never used cell phone text messages before the iPhone now they do it constantly, my dad has arthritic fingers and could barely type out phone numbers on previous cell phones and has no problem with the iPhone.

I'd say mechanical keyboards are far worse than Apple's software keyboard with auto-correct. It does have a learning curve, but it's not a month.

Feels like a "Fisher Price Toy" - It's plastic. Whatcha want?

I've never felt one, so until or unless I do I can only go by the reports of those who have. BGR says it has a "cheap build quality" describing several problems with the quality of the manufactured device. They said they liked how it "felt in the hand" but not how the slide out keyboard felt or worked, and some of the edges felt too sharp. The slide out keyboard had an issue according to BGR where the top keys were difficult to type because your finger hit the part of the phone above the keys.

Offers no apps: Neither did iPhone for more than a year. I betcha Pre has them in less time.

Palm does not have that time. They are essentially copying the iPhone after 2 years. The iPhone had no similar competitors when it was introduced. This is not 2 years ago.

Palm has to compete with the iPhone of today, not the iPhone of 2 years ago. Apple is also about to release a brand new iPhone with new features, the one currently on sale will be obsolete in about a month or so.

Also-ran carriers: That's what we called AT&T;until.

I love ATT, some hate it. Carriers is a sticky issue where everyone seems to have an opinion, and likely it depends on where you live. Sadly in the US different carriers use different cell phone networks, instead of a compatible network. This was a tremendous blunder made by the FCC years ago when they allowed this, it never should have happened. It is like a modern day version of different gauge rail road tracks. They standardized that over a hundred years ago, but apparently we don't learn from history very well. Hopefully with LTE this will be a problem of the past.

This review is actually pretty positive. Nothing at all like the skewering MDN wants it to be. Just wait.

I read the review, it's not as positive as you make it out to be. There are real serious issues with the Pre hardware. People seem to like the WebOS just not the device itself. Perhaps if Palm outsourced making the device to another manufacturer who was capable of making good hardware and focused on the WebOS itself they'd have a compelling product. But Alas, Palm made the Pre itself. Poorly.

I'd say wait for version 2 or 3, but Palm is on life support propped up by a venture capitalist firm, so if the Pre is not a smash hit, we may never see future versions of the Pre. The current one is not a competitor to the iPhone.


jocknerd I, for one, will probably be getting a Pre sometime this year. I'd love an iPhone, but I'm on Sprint. And I'm not leaving anytime soon since my wife and I have an unlimited data plan that costs us about $55 per month for the two of us.

This may change in the future but Sprint was limiting the Pre to only certain people with certain type of cell data plans. If you plan to buy a Pre you may want to check if your particular plan qualifies. If it does not right now, it may in the future. But no guarantees.

Rattymouse It's gonna be fun watching everyone eat crow *IF* Palm takes off and sells well. Great great fun.

Like Psystar?

Sarasota The lack of AT&T;should allow Palm to sell millions.

Yes, because exclusively launching with a carrier that is rapidly losing customers, and has been every quarter for years, is surely a recipe for success.

@ twilightmoon

Mega-Fisk!

kudos

Seems like a fair review.

Reviewer says;
Pre has an almost-as-good-as-iPhone screen (visual, not material).
Pre's OS looks great, innovative (finally!).
Build is poor to fair.
Input is poor (but that's subjective)
Apps?

Sounds like the Pre might take a little of the BB space.
And Pre will sell to those who hate Apple (and RIM) and would not buy an Apple product if their life depended on it.

It looks like Palm might have a chance to cheat death, but not by a huge margin, and it will still be one of Apple's also-rans.
That doesn't mean Palm can't, in the future, consider it quite successful.

Fear at Apple? Oh, yeah, Trolls, I bet all of Cupertino is just shaking in their collective boots!

I have the 1st & 2nd iPhone. I love it and for the foreseeable future, I have no plans whatsoever to change. However, the one thing I have complained about from day one with the iPhone is having to go home to switch between apps. I love the feature on the Pre of being able to switch from app to app. Maybe Steve-o can pick up on that. That's a bitchin' feature.

My 0.02

Hey MDN, I am curious, did you bother to read the comments posted by BGR in the comments section in their pre-view article? They admitted the Pre they had was NOT sent by Sprint or Palm, they also admitted it was not a final production model, hence the reason many features did not work, not active on the network. BGR initially tried to pass that “PREVIEW” version off as the final product. They did not fool anyone. A couple of facts, the Pre BGR had, has a different keyboard than the final version, the Pre’s keyboard is more spacious than the Treo Pro, on June 6th there will be a major software update pushed out to the Pre.

Those saying it's a fair review you obviously did not read it correctly, if you had you would have seen this: BGR- "we’d rate it just behind the iPhone’s glass capacitive touch screen — it’s that close to being perfection." That clearly shows bias.

Forgot to mention, on June 6th a major software update will be pushed to the Pre OTA. BGR is not mentioning the version on the Pre they have is from February.

May 30, 09 - 09:12 pm Comment from: TheMacAdvocate

The first review of this device comes 7 days before its launch. The only thing we knew about the Pre before this was Palm rep manhandling and Palm-controlled video demos.

When producers know a shitty, multi-million dollar movie is going to tank, they keep previews out of critics hands and build hype in-house so they can max out ticket sales before word-of-mouth keeps anyone else from seeing it.

I see similarities.

oneAwake, here is BGR's comment - they are saying it is a final production unit.
------------------------------------

On May 30, 2009 @ 12:07 am, The Boy Genius Said:

I don’t think you guys are getting the point… The unit is a full production unit running whatever the latest OS is. It’s just not simply a “review” unit. It is not a pre-release or prototype device, and whenever there’s a software upgrade, the software will be upgraded. As of now, OS 1.0.1 is the latest and that does not have the “complete” retail loaded files and applications. Not sure how much clearer or descriptive I can get without giving away my source — we will re-review the Palm Pre when we have a retail unit. If you’re upset we have a Palm Pre and the review didn’t live up to expectations, you’re free to stop visiting.

@sid

Here is a comment from BGR:

On May 29, 2009 @ 3:49 pm, The Boy Genius Said:

"It’s not our fault Palm/Sprint didn’t send us a final review unit.

We managed to get our hands on one, and whatever it was, it was.

This is the most recent available OS as far as we’re aware."

How in-the-hell would BGR be able to get their hands on a final version if it wasn't sent from Palm or Sprint? The final production version does not even have the final firmware! They're full of crap. BGR has the pre production unit, none of the retail productions units are in the hands of anyone outside of Palm or Sprint. Since February there has been many firmware builds. BGR admitted there was software missing as well.

May 31, 09 - 11:33 am Comment from: Predrag

If this Pre device was to be sold by Sprint on 6 June (next saturday), that means that the final, production units have been in the US for some time. It is inconceivable to imagine that they would launch nationwide in less than a week without having initial stock already. And there is absolutely no way they would ship these without final software on them, relying on some OTA update push on the day of launch -- it is simply absurd. The number of things that could go wrong... With all the possible activations of the device, which would presumably already strain Sprint's already inferior network, it would be a complete disaster to push an OS update at the same time.

I'm sure OneAwake is convinced this is some old hardware and old firmware. I myself have little doubt that what they got their hands on was a smuggled retail box, ready for a customer.

May 31, 09 - 12:56 pm Comment from: Superior Being

Unsurprising, those heavily invested in the Pre's success (either monetarily or emotionally) are unable to handle reality.

Pre is just a wannabe iPhone. That's all it's ever been and all it ever will be until Palm ceases to exist (which won't be long now).

@Predrag

Fact: Sprint employees received a memo regarding a major software push on June 6th

Fact: BGR ADMITTED IT WASN"T A RETAIL VERSION

Fact: The retail versions have not left the warehouse, no Sprint stores have the Pre yet.

Fact: Just about every techno blog worth it's sweat have said CDMA is superior to GSM in the US. Saying Sprint has an inferior network is moronic, especially since Sprint and Verizon have similar networks.

Fact: ATT's network can't handle the Slingbox streaming, that is why ATT banned using Slingbox over 3G. Story here.

Fact: Streaming Slingbox over Sprints 3.5G network welcomed.

@PC Apologist

Well taken about the points. However, in a highly competitive smartphone market, you either have to reinvent the wheel with groundbreaking innovation or you are just merely trying to compete to keep up with the trends. The 1st gen iPhone reinvented the smartphone market and thus apps had to wait a year and people did have to get used to a non-physical keyboard. While the Pre maybe a good competitor, it is merely keeping up with the trends set by the iPhone. So from a business standpoint, time IS something that Palm does not have with the Pre...it must be a good product from the get-go. Either the Pre must do what the iPhone can but many more times better or the Pre offers something truly unique that the iPhone does not. Mac community you can be the judge on whether or not the Pre does that...

@oneAwake

Fact: Just about every techno blog worth it's sweat have said CDMA is superior to GSM in the US. Saying Sprint has an inferior network is moronic, especially since Sprint and Verizon have similar networks

Very untrue...My business used to use Sprint for several years and the network was terrible. We switched to Verizon and never looked back. From my experience, Sprint and Verizon are NOT the same and Sprint really is inferior in terms of call quality network coverage, and customer service. While I have never used T-Mobile or AT&T;'s network, to make a claim that CDMA technology is better than GSM is hard to make. What it does come down to is Sprint's CDMA network vs. AT&T;'s GSM network...and that is a debate I have not looked into.

May 31, 09 - 10:52 pm Comment from: Predrag

OneAwake:

Putting "Fact:" before a statement doesn't automatically that statement true. I'm sure you know this; I just wanted to make sure other readers here are aware.

Just about every techno blog out there seems to agree that Verizon may have better and more reliable coverage on the average, in the US. The also agree that this advantage is minimal and generally, a wash. Sprint's coverage, on the other hand, is generally abysmal, as pretty much every techno blog seems to agree as well. CDMA doesn't automatically make it good.

As for streaming slingbox on Sprite, that ought not to be much of a problem today, since they still don't have an iPhone. As everyone here knows, iPhone is the only device out there today that has meaningful numbers to actually overload a network, even as big and as fast as AT&T's. It would be interesting to see (this is now hypothetical) what would happen to Sprint's network if it had a device like an iPhone, with users downloading AND using slingbox in meaningful numbers. They'd ban it in a short order. As it looks, though, there's little chance of that happening.

@ Predrag

I won't even bother responding to all of you latest comments, especially after reading this: "As everyone here knows, iPhone is the only device out there today that has meaningful numbers to actually overload a network, even as big and as fast as AT&T;'s."

HAHAHAHAHA!!! YOU ARE COMPLETELY DELUSIONAL!

You're probably one of those who believe the iphone was the 1st 3G device.

@ Mixed Economy

Actually it is true, I do not know how long it's been since you had Sprint, they're actually tied or exceeding Verizon in voice quality in some areas. Yes Verizon has a larger network, however, due to roaming agreements between Sprint & Verizon, Sprint customers roam for free on Verizons network. Basically whenever a Sprint customer is out of a Sprint coverage area, but in a Verizon area, they can still make calls. This is due to Verizon having more access to CDMA towers. As a business standpoint, Sprint thought it would be a better idea to take that route, rather than erect more towers. The only thing Sprint customers cannot do on Verizons network is data roam, there isn't any need to since Sprint has the largest mobile broadband network. Sprints and Verizons network are so similar, a few years ago Verizon began activating Sprint branded devices on the Verizon network. The Sprint customer will need the master unlock code for the device. This is mainly due to the new law which forces networks to unlock their devices for other like networks.

Jun 01, 09 - 01:32 pm Comment from: smyhre

oneAwake,

You do know that though the iPhone accounts for only 10% of smartphones and roughly 2% or less of all phones that it is using 65% of the data sent over the network, right? And yes though there are more phones of other types that could potentially crash the network far more than the iPhone IF and only IF they actually used the network's potential they aren't doing it because they aren't known to be as user friendly for network use (or are crippled to the point where you have to pay for every little possible good thing about the phone through the nose) as the iPhone or people would be doing what iPhone users are.

@smyhre

You do know that Sprint operates the largest mobile broadband network in the country with over 100 million customers, that means customers who utilize Sprints wireless cards and modems and other rural Carriers and companies (i.e. Disney buys access in bulk) who use Sprints network for their mobile broadband as well. On the very same network as Sprints wireless phone customers who have 3G devices. Yet Sprint does not experience the same limitations as ATT, neither does Verizon. Speaking of Verizon, they have more 3G devices on their network than ATT. What you probably do not know is, ATT built their digital network on top of an old Analog network. ATT GSM is piggybacked on an old network, this is the reason many ATT customers experience a lot of drop calls and loss of a 3G signal, which the average iphone user does. The iphone owners on carriers in other countries do not have the same issues as US iphone owners.