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Can't see that happening

Only way for iPhone to even survive is if Steve jobs "birtes the bullet" and puts Windows on it.

Games are so overhyped.

I think it is crazy that game developers have not focused more on the Mac and iPhone because 40% of college students are now buting Macs. College students are the ones that play the most games. I can tell you that MacSoftwareList.com doesn't have many games because the game developers are not contacting us about adding to the list. It is a crazy shame that it took the iPhone to spur gaming interest in OS X.

uhh, didn't EA announce Mac game support/deployment a while back?

Jun 05, 08 - 09:03 am Comment from: Macdoc

Then you need to make a call and your battery is dead from playing all those waste of time games. Apple better hurry with that solar panel under the screen!!

never happen, the DS is purely gaming and does an incredible job at it, cheap and very long battery life

and there's no way in hell I am giving my kids my iPhone to play on

Macdoc lol so true. Its gonna be hard to beat the ds lite when you can play games on that for 15-17 hours on a single charge. Which is why the games are not that graphic intensive like the PSP.

Not going to happen. This article is so far off it isn't even funny. The touch would have to get far less expensive with more memory and become far more durable. That's just 3 of the problems.

Nintendo DS has a long and faithful following, Kids see the iPhone/iPod touch as too fragile and they are afraid they will break them. I get this sense from my tech savvy 12 year old and his friends, all of whom, by the way, are Mac addicts when it comes to their laptops. I see gaming as an extra with these devices, not the key attraction.

I don't see this happening. Touch interfaces and games don't go to well together except for a small section such as puzzle games.

MDN: Apple has never pushed or encouraged developers to write games for OS X. Blaming all game developers for not flocking to the platform is childish and stupid.

Jun 05, 08 - 09:19 am Comment from: CandTsmac

Gaming was not ignored on the Mac. It was the effort in coding for PowerPC. The world is lazy, that's why we switched. Not Performance per watt, Developers.

My favorite Mac game is called WinCloser.

Invented by the editors of MDN, this game tests your timing and skill at closing all of the popup windows on this website.

Tip: Advanced users soon learn that the windows pop up the second you click on a new story so be ready! Extra points are earned if you can get them all closed before the page loads.

While its more fun if you have two 30 inch displays (gives you more real estate to cover) this game can even be enjoyed on an iPhone.

"MacDailyNews Take: Apple hasn't struggled to "master gaming on the Mac," game developers have struggled with (or ignored) the Mac platform."

MDN, do you realize that your take, above, is a distinction without a difference? Apple has not been successful in gaming. Why do you feel it necessary to jump up and down and scream bloody murder whenever anyone comes even close to criticizing Apple?

There's so many good things happening with Apple these days it's not necessary or seemly to defend them when people are just being objective. Save your venom for people who post obvious falsehoods or misleading articles.

I don't see that happening. The main reason why Nintendo sells well, is the same reason mac sells well. That is, Nintendo make really good games that appeal to everyone.

I would think that Nintendo would work with Apple to create a device for tactile buttons on the iPhone/iPod touch to play games. Playing a game without these just isn't good enough, there needs to be a good enough response.

Jun 05, 08 - 09:32 am Comment from: Demon

iPhone and iPod touch games will translate to more Mac OS games in general and in the end the more games on the Mac the more Mac sales will be to the less sophisticated users. The more Mac Users there are the more Macs move into the enterprise. Game developers are not stupid, they see Mac sales increasing and they know that the Mac sales increases are at the cost of Windows PC (their core) gaming market, the home user. Apple marching up the OS market-share latter is being driven by that home market, with users switching away from Windows. Game Developers are going to want to stay ahead of the switch curve or they'll be faced with the one thing they do not want, declining sales. Once a game company starts down the road of declining sales there is little they can do to recapture lost market-share. So, to staying ahead of the curve and keep their market-share and to even try to expand it, the smart game companies are going to start releasing more of their titles on the Mac OS in a much tighter schedule with their Windows Version, if not at the same time or even before the Windows Version is released. Some, of the big game developers have been quietly hiring Mac developers for the last year and several of the Game Porting companies that do the ports of Windows Games to Mac OS are said to be in talks with the big game companies on possible acquisition.

MDN Take: "Apple hasn't struggled to "master gaming on the Mac," game developers have struggled with (or ignored) the Mac platform..."

I ain't no programmer or gaming expert. Some who are say they want to work with Apple, but Apple really isn't interested...

Valve Software co-founder Gabe Newell:
"We have this pattern with Apple, where we meet with them, people there go 'wow, gaming is incredibly important, we should do something with gaming,'" Newell said. "And then we'll say, 'OK, here are three things you could do to make that better,' and then they say OK, and then we never see them again. And then a year later, a new group of people show up, who apparently have no idea that the last group of people were there, and never follow through on anything. So, they seem to think that they want to do gaming, but there's never any follow through on any of the things they say they're going to do."

id programming guru John Carmack:
"The honest truth right now is that Apple's not exactly hugely supportive...When they finally allowed games to be put on the iPod... in many ways it's one of the worst environments to develop games for. You have to work on an emulator... just all these horrible decisions....they're not giving any spectacular signs that it's going to be a big deal for them..."

Don't forget that graphic cards in the Mac was not well suited or powerfull for the full throttle games. Mac hardware was'nt a very good plaform for hight level games. MDN is lacking some balanced views about that question.

I must admit that Macs give a better option about that recently.

I think the iPhone will dominate! Look out Nintendo!

What we need is a totally new generation of games that use OSX/iPhone/iPod/TV/Mac that will make existing games looks as sick as Windows does.

This might be the dumbest article I've seen yet...

"Mommy can I get an iPhone instead of a Nintendo DS"

"Sure son, your 9 years old and I have over $125 a month to blow on your NEW gaming platform."

"Yea mommy yea."

SCUMM VM....enough said

Jun 05, 08 - 09:57 am Comment from: Predrag

There is no question; iPhone/iPod will affect Nintendo DS. Today, many people buy DS to play hand-held games (for same reasons they buy PSP). Tomorrow, when there is an option to buy games for their iPhone/iPod, there will be no reason for them to buy DS as well. This won't kill DS, but it will definitely have a noticeable effect. We need to understand that not the entire (nor a large percentage) of DS-buying public is hard-come gaming folks. Majority are in fact young people (and teens) who aren't exactly so completely obsessed with gaming. They have a few games and they play them occasionally. If they could do the same on their iPhone or iPod, they would never bother with a DS.This is the main point here; not the assumption that DS will soon die, but that it would be affected considerably by emergence of iPhone as a gaming platform.

Jun 05, 08 - 10:00 am Comment from: CYxodus

The iPhone/iPod Touch is not a DS killer for so many reasons and for Brian Caulfield to say so just shows his ignorance of the complexities of the gaming market. As someone who has studied game design, I can tell you that the iPhone/iPod Touch, as a gaming platform, is hurt by multiple things.

The first is that it’s much more expensive than the DS. The PSP was introduced to the American market in 2005 at a price point of $249 and as of this year, has sold 34 million units. Many of these sales only occurred after a price drop to $169.99 (unit only) & $199.99 (game bundle) and a redesign that reduced its size and increased its ram. In the same time, the DS has sold over 70.6 million units at a price point of $129.99 (unit only). Nintendo has sold over 258.6 million handhelds since it entered the market in 1989. Over the past 19 years, Nintendo has been challenged by other handheld systems that were technically superiors but more expensive and all have either failed or haven’t sold as many units.

The second is the controls. One of the things that are holding the iPhone/iPod Touch back is it lack of tactile controls. Being able to feel the controls without looking at them or thinking about it is very important to keeping the gamer in the game. Whenever a gamer has to think about how their going to control the game, it breaks that all important 4th wall and takes them out of the game. Non- tactile controls require that the gamer monitor where their thumbs are constantly to ensure that they haven’t slipped off.

The third thing that has given Nintendo such a strong lead over all other competitors has been its library of great games. Nintendo is an innovative company that knows how to create games and has many talented companies releasing games on its systems. To date, Nintendo has sold over 170 millions copies of its Super Mario franchise and Super Mario Brothers alone has sold over 40 million copies, the highest selling game of all time. One of the complaints some companies are having with the Wii is that they have to compete against Nintendo games. Nintendo is a power horse.

The fourth is battery life. The DS has a battery life of anywhere between 8 – 19 hours off of a sing three hour charge. The iPhone/iPod Touch’s battery life for gaming would probably be less than its 7 hour battery life for video playback. I know that it’s annoying for me to constantly be watching my PSP’s battery life and it can run out of a charge in several hours. I had to buy a car adapter to ensure it didn’t run out. My DS can go 4 – 7 days without a charge.

Gaming will grow on the iPhone/iPod Touch and it will produce some fun and great games but it’s nowhere in the same league as the DS.

Jun 05, 08 - 10:02 am Comment from: JAYGEE

I believe that the iPhone/iPod Touch will be more competition to the PSP, than the DS, as the most popular games on the DS are made by Nintendo, and I doubt they will release the games on the iPhone/Touch

iPod touch could easily become a Nintendo/PSP killer if there were a $199 version. They have way more memory, graphics power and processing power than either of those platforms. And anyone with programming chops can create and market stuff through the App/store for a pittance. Plus, you have the whole world of internet gaming that PSP and Nintendo can't even touch.

If Apple had been serious about gaming on the Mac they would:
1. Have had more video options for the iMac and Mac Mini across the entire line or…

2. Offer a half sized MacPro—half the memory slots, half the PCI slots, half the drive bays and half the optical bays. Remember, you used to be able to buy a pro-level Mac for around $1500

3. Invest or buy into some of the major gaming companies—Bungie, Half-Life, etc.

4. Buy a graphics card company—remember 3dfx? BTW, what happened to Raycer? (Apple bought it a while back.)

Dumb article. Nintendo is a gaming company - Apple has never been a big supporter of gaming. Who do you think will "win"? This article is as dumb as every "iPod killer" article out there, just from the other side.

APPLE IS GOING TO BE A MAD GAMING PLATFORM

Apple TV

Mac

Ipod... all pimpin the latest sheite

Jun 05, 08 - 10:48 am Comment from: shen

"pple hasn't struggled to "master gaming on the Mac," game developers have struggled with (or ignored) the Mac platform - even though Mac users in general have more disposable income and are more likely to pay for software than their Windows counterparts."

hop on a warcraft server sometime and ask about macs. a whole lot of people there game on them. why? well, blizzard releases games for the mac. and since the game is a pay per month, and recalling the disposable income part......

two questions:

first for "Sheep Register" if the trouble is that apple isn't doing something, as the valve guys tell it, then why is it that the companies that do make games for the mac make such great games? remember halo before MS bought it? what did it run on? did they need special help from apple? remember the afore mentioned WoW? do they get special help?

maybe the guys you quote are just piss poor programers....

second, for all those people making fun of the article because "who gets a 9 year an iPhone?!?"

how many iPhones have seen in the hands of teens? i know i have seen a fair number there. how many teens have summer jobs and extra cash? if they were shelling out for iPods, why not iPhones?

i listened to a girl (maybe 15-16) talk her dad into an iPhone just a few days ago. he told her that if she bought the phone he would pay for the plan. personally, i think he got screwed, but who am i to judge.

part two of that question, how many of you forgot about the touch?

oh wait, you mean that thing that should be able to play all the same games as the iPhone, cost less, have no subscription, and that students can get free with a computer?

yeah, i bet there is no gaming on that platform.......

honestly, sometimes i fear for the state of critical thinking in the world today.

If a controller is a problem, someone could easily invent a blue-tooth or wifi controller. That is a non-issue.

Jun 05, 08 - 10:58 am Comment from: Spark

Forgive me, but I can't help myself....

Can the DS compete with the god-game on the Jesus phone?

Not much of a chance for sucess here. The market is dominated by devices that are mature and growing. The PSP community is huge and the DS regulary beats Wii.

I currently have a choice of over 150 games, hardcore action a big share of these, for my PSP.
There is Homebrew, Voip, and basic PC interaction available for the PSP. Huge grassroots programing going on there.
My Zune has 17 games on it with a community of 50000 at one site alone working for more. And the official games have not been released by Microsoft. A rather large grassroots effort no matter how you look at it.
What games is available through Iphone-Ipod? What gaming developement? What community is asking for this? Where is the demand? I just cannot find any interest on the web that justifies Ipod/Iphone platform being much more than a cliche market.

Jun 05, 08 - 11:29 am Comment from: shen

"My Zune has 17 games on it with a community of 50000 at one site alone working for more."

my god that is 99.7% of all the zune owners in the world! all at one site?!?

you must be able to smell the "fail" from the dns server.....

Jun 05, 08 - 11:31 am Comment from: MobileAdmin

Apple fanboys - Meet Nintendo fanboys, that would be some battle

This article was pretty funny, perhaps in 5 years when Iphone/tuch is around $99 and has some games we can revisit but for now I'll put it with all the other ways iphone is going to take over every technical vertical.

@shen
Cute, but irrelevent comment
What of the question put forth? Any solid commentary on these?

Watching the pong multiplayer iphone game, there is not doubt that Apple could have a hit if it decide to turn the ipod touch/iphone into a portable gaming device.

Steve J has been adding some games to the iphone/ipod touch and with the SDK and the next week WWDC we could see more games coming to those devices.

Remember that the game industry generates more profit than Hollywood this past year, so game is something to take seriously.

Read my rants about games precisely at: http://www.desinformado.com/index.php/2008/06/05/state-of-the-mac-game-are-hardcore-games-dead-on-the-mac/

Actually MDN, Apple has struggled with gaming once again demonstrating your disconnect with reality.

Apple has consistently ignored the gaming community which is why they have ignored the Mac and they have failed to offer any meaningful support for game development on the Mac even when they said they would.

Nevertheless, it's not likely that the iPhone will displace the Nintendo DS. Can't imagine parents willing to fork over big bucks for an iPhone that is probably not nearly as rugged as the DS nor designed for gaming.

Jun 05, 08 - 12:48 pm Comment from: Predrag

Ultimately, it will all come down to which games are in fact available for the platform. If some major players (EA, for example) release some very attractive titles for Apples multi-touch platform (i.e. iPhone, AS WELL AS iPod Touch - free with a Mac for college students!), they would sell, and many would have no need for PSP or DS. Physical controls are not an insurmountable problem for developers; all that's needed is a change in thinking for the developers.

As I said, the platform will not kill DS (nor PSP). However, it definitely WILL eat into their market share. Let's see how much.

the only thing to take seriously is that the majority of iPhone people in love with this idea should actually be doing their job as opposed to playing games on their iPhone between 9-5.

nice disservice to your employer. be proud.

apple will also have competition from other mobile companies as well as nintendo and sony.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ou4R0FOlY0

Jun 05, 08 - 01:15 pm Comment from: Ampar

"Thursday's introduction of an iPhone Software Development Kit (SDK) has game developers everywhere excited about the possibilities of iPhone game development, especially after seeing game demonstrations during the event. Developers agreed that Apple is pushing the iPhone as a major portable gaming platform.

'This is the coolest thing I've seen in game development in 15 years, except maybe for the Nintendo Wii,' said Glenda Adams, director of development for long-time Mac game publisher Aspyr Media.

Adams said that iPhone development plays uniquely into Aspyr's strengths: their in-house developers have experience with the core technology that the iPhone uses, such as OpenGL, Cocoa and Apple's user interface. They also have experience developing applications for the mobile space.

Electronic Arts (EA) and Sega both showed off iPhone games in development. EA showed off an iPhone-specific version of Spore, the forthcoming game from Will Wright, maker of The Sims and SimCity, while Sega introduced an iPhone version of Super Monkey Ball, a game that first appeared on Nintendo's GameCube console.

Helping to separate signal from noise

With giants like EA and Sega already staking claims to the iPhone ecosystem, Adams expects that the iPhone game market will quickly fill with titles. She anticipates it'll be a combination of original game development and ports or adaptations of existing intellectual property.

That sentiment was echoed by Brian Greenstone, president of Pangea Software. Pangea's best known for Mac games like Nanosaur and Bugdom.

"Everyone who I talk with wants to write iPhone applications right now," said Greenstone. "The market is going to be flooded with stuff."

Familiar surroundings for Mac developers

The iPhone SDK introduction has revitalized Greenstone's interest in developing for Apple platforms. He said he'd put new Mac game development on the back burner for the past couple of years, partly because of what he perceived to be a lack of interest or support from Apple itself for original game developers.

'This is the best thing I've seen Apple do in recent history,' said Greenstone. 'I'm elated that they're actually doing it right.'"

The rest . . . http://www.macworld.com/article/132432/2008/03/gamedevs.html

Artificial Life, Aspyr, Electronic Arts, Feral Interactive, Freeverse, Gameloft, id Software, Pangea, THQ, and Namco Bandai have all made commitments to deliver games for the iPhone and iPod touch.

Jun 05, 08 - 02:42 pm Comment from: TheConfuzed1

Sorry, but this isn't going to happen.

In my household, we have 1 iPhone, and 3 Nintendo DSs, plus there have been two DSs in the past that have been broken or lost, and then replaced.

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying my children iPhones, or iPod Touches, as they are all three under six years old, especially at the rate that they go through them.
We also have a PS3 and a Wii in our house, so yeah, my kids like to game. Guess what though... Nintendo is here to stay.

Jun 05, 08 - 03:04 pm Comment from: TheConfuzed1

You know what I would buy? If Apple and Nintendo were to te up, and do-develop a set of gaming controls to be plugged into the dock connector, I would buy that, not for my kids, but for myself.

There's a Nintendo DS ad staring at me... to the left...

Jun 05, 08 - 06:53 pm Comment from: shen

so crash, Ampar provided a total butt kicking to your little questions. what is your response?

better yet, here is a question for you:

if your reasoning for the zune being so great is people on a single site programing for the massive audience of maybe close to a million people, how is a multiple hundred million market with professional developers "no interest"?

you said: "What games is available through Iphone-Ipod? What gaming developement? What community is asking for this? Where is the demand? "

are. are available. and all you have to do is look at the ITMS where they actually have a link to games to see what is already out, today, BEFORE the developers kit is out.

what developers? "Artificial Life, Aspyr, Electronic Arts, Feral Interactive, Freeverse, Gameloft, id Software, Pangea, THQ, and Namco Bandai have all made commitments to deliver games for the iPhone and iPod touch."

sorry i forgot, 5000 people who nobody has ever heard of are making games for the 5200 zune owners. how will companies like ID, Sega, and EA compete with that?!?

but please do explain how how the touch is a "cliche" market.

PS, i think you mean niche, but are just too dumb to know it. just a friendly hint, get a Mac, it has a built in dictionary and you can look those nasty hard words up.....

“sorry i forgot, 5000 people who nobody has ever heard of are making games for the 5200 zune owners. how will companies like ID, Sega, and EA compete with that?!?”


While I agree that the Zune isn’t a real competitor in the games market (or any market actually) I really don’t think a couple of promised ports from EA and a technology demo from Sega really constitutes any kind of commitment to the iPhone.

Game developers are very cynical and if they can make some money releasing half hearted ports to the iPhone they will but don’t expect anything that’s actually any good. I would have thought that Mac users would realise this more than most.

@shen
Never said Zune was the killer there Sparky.
My answer to you I do not see in that 100 million the level that 2 million Zuners are giving toward the game initiative.
Gaming must have a core community to compel developement. These core gamers usually, like is see with the Zune start building, coding their own games with developer packages like the SDK for Iphone or the XNX for the Zune and Xbox. Hell the PSP has homebrew. This push by this core creates somewhat of a self supporting demand for more.
I have not seen this yet from Iphone/Ipod platform even with the jailbreak or SDK.
Now dont bite the messenger, I am brought up things that are real in the gaming world. Just because you or anyone else says the Iphone could dominate the handheld gaming market does not make it so. Get real and look at the questions and ideas being put out here.

@shen Quote" i think you mean niche, but are just too dumb to know it. just a friendly hint, get a Mac, it has a built in dictionary and you can look those nasty hard words up....."
Why would I by a Mac when I have an ass like you to look them up and correct as needed.
Oh oh now that was personal.....
Best remember the one thing about the internet, We dont know each other so any sort of things can be bantered back and forth.
All this really does though is make a thread into a heaping pile of shit when we finish.
So lets keep this civil and continue with the discussion at hand.

Jun 05, 08 - 11:34 pm Comment from: shen

@Crash

"Never said Zune was the killer there Sparky."

go back ad read your comments, if you can wade through the ignorance. you stated that the zune had a better chance at gaming than the ipod.

in fact, "Gaming must have a core community to compel developement. These core gamers usually, like is see with the Zune start building, coding their own games with developer packages like the SDK for Iphone or the XNX for the Zune and Xbox. Hell the PSP has homebrew. This push by this core creates somewhat of a self supporting demand for more.
I have not seen this yet from Iphone/Ipod platform even with the jailbreak or SDK. "

look, you said it again.

i am sorry but if you don't even know what you said, how am i supposed to think you understand what i said?

"Best remember the one thing about the internet, We dont know each other so any sort of things can be bantered back and forth."

again you are wrong. i know who you are. you just don't know that i know. you are easy to find, you are the one zune owner outside of microsofts directors......

you want to keep it civil? fine.

again, we have over 100,000 downloads of the iphone SDK in only 4 days.

read that again. the iphone SDK is in the hands of more people than the zune. the SDK man!

secondly, while you can claim that "homebrew" and "core" gamers are what compel development, you have offered no proof. show me the proof that the huge market for the wii is due to homebrew games. please. i am waiting.

if core development by homebrew types was the key top gaming, linux would be THE gaming platform. your entire argument makes less than no sense.

"Now dont bite the messenger" you say, and even if i change what you typed into a sensible message, you have no point. you insist that there is no ipod community asking for games, despite the huge numbers of owners, and the interest on every ipod site in the iphone sdk, yet the relatively tiny number of zune owners are somehow a community.

you haven't seen any interest in this?

it is entirely possible that there are more jailbroken iphones that there are zunes in the wild, and to you this is a lack of developer interest? the only way you couldn't see interest is if you aren't..... OMG, you just aren't paying attention to the real world are you? you don't see it because you aren't looking.

are you the zune tattoo guy? i knew it! i knew you were the one zune owner in the wild!

"Why would I by a Mac when I have an ass like you to look them up and correct as needed."

i don't know, perhaps so you could make a coherent argument rather than sounding like an uneducated tween? just me thinking allowed.....

"So lets keep this civil and continue with the discussion at hand."

it is hard to have a discussion with someone who has yet to make a valid point. sort of like having a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

but hey, you give me a hobby when i am bored....

Calm down shen we all know the iPod has sold more than the Zune. Guess what the Gameboy has sold more than the iPod !!!!!!