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"Apple's iPhone does not currently utilize 3G due to power consumption. Apple hopes that 3G chipsets will have advanced to the point where they don't run out the battery in a few hours by sometime next year. Related article: Battery life tests show why Apple skipped 3G on iPhone - July 16, 2007"

Again, MDN parrots the party line. What are you going to say in January Steve when Jobs holds up the new 2nd generation 3G iPhone? Oh yes, in 6 months the battery life has grown leaps and bounds and now Apple can introduce 3G.

I bought a touch (16 gig) rather than an iPhone. Since I have WiFi at home, in the office, and most of the motels I stay it is what works for me (plus my company provided phone does just fine for basic telephone services). An associate has an iPhone and I played with it one day where WiFi was not available. It's pathetic, slow and painful. No amount of fanboy cheerleading can change that.

The battery life argument is a joke. I charge my phone and touch in the car and have them plugged in in the office. Never run out of power.

As mentioned, the 2nd generation iPhone will be 3G and cheaper - and a much better product. Apple screwed up using edge and I believe they know it. The Fanboy excuses regarding batter life are not necessary.

Shoo, man. Shoo.....

The UK launch was a bit of a flop apparently.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/11/iphone_uk_flop/

"Mr. Gorbachov, tear down this wall."

Can you not use Skype with the iPhone

http://www.apple.com/webapps/socialnetworking/imforskype.html

"@TowerTone
Shoo, man. Shoo....."

I'm sorry there Mr. Fanboy. The iPhone is absolutely perfect and I enjoy watching the slow, gorgeous, and elegant webpages load.

Is that better Mr. Mindless One?????

Also, Edge is available in more coverage area's. ATT 3G service is now just rolling out in major cities around the country. (http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/popUp_3g.html)

Why release a crippled product with a chipset the provider has no use for? If ATT doesn't have the coverage of 3G, then why have 3G in the iPhone. Besides, when 3G isn't available with other providers, which where I live 20 mile outside Seattle is not, you get the same old slow ass speeds.

What you forget is that the phone is also an iPod w/ video, coupled with a real browser. Talk smack all you want, but battery life would suck a** if we had a 3G phone, and iPod Video. One commute and the thing would be dead. Sacrifices had to be made. The damn thing is the skinniest phone around. Batteries can only be so big.

All those other phones with 3G? They have to be good at maybe 2 things: talking and browsing. Their attempt to be more than those two things are why they are so bad. None of them, NONE, are a phone and a true music player or real video player. Motorolla Q? Blows. Blackjack? Blows. Nokia N92? Meh. They do one or two things well. Their video playback is a joke, surfing the web is a joke, but yes the pages load faster. Whoopee. Their interface is a joke. Jesus, have you used Windows Mobile? Apple had to make everything work. It had to be a real phone, a real iPod, really surf the web, display pictures well, have wireless itunes. And it had to meet Apple's expectations, not yours mine or the pundits. It did those things. But it is version 1. There are issues. But compared to the joke that is Win Mobile or Palm, it is a thing of beauty. And when they pull their heads out and unlock the thing, well, you sir will see a truly innovative device.
I wonder what version 4 will look like...

God I am self righteous.

" And it had to meet Apple's expectations, not yours mine or the pundits. "

Wow, cool new business plan for ALL companies to adhere to. To hell with the consumer, we like it!!!!!!!!!!!! What business school did you graduate from??? My God man, you are going to revolutionize business in the 21st century....

I see the 12 year olds are still the most popular posters here at MDN!

Since I have WiFi at home, in the office, and most of the motels I stay it is what works for me

Motels?!?! Glad to see you are doing well these days with work.

MW - Clearly- Shoeman is cheap and can not afford at Hotel

"MW - Clearly- Shoeman is cheap and can not afford at Hotel"

LOL!!! Someday when you grow up you'll learn that people who work for a living don't have to worry about "affording hotels".. Corporate Visa card. WoW, what a concept...

Yeah, little boys @ MDN!

Shoeman is a big fat idiot.

Shoeman
My arguments aren't with what the iPhone could be, but what it had to be in this generation. Why isn't it more Bluetooth compatible? Forget VOIP, A,T&T;can't make as much money off that, but what about Sling-ing video? What about a lot of things?

When it comes down to it, grown ups have to make hard decisions about what will sell, what will work, what can be expanded upon, what to leave in, what to add later after some bugs are worked out.

Why be so damn pissy about something that is only going to get better, and anyone with any business sense can see that Apple will add more and more as it is able to, and at the same time, keep it as stable as possible.

I have confidence that they will do this. If they don't, I won't buy another phone from them. It's that simple.

And that's the (t)Ruth.

Thank you
Mr. Mindless

Shoeman, your tone and insults rather suggest to me that it is YOU that may be the spotty teenager in this forum...

The battery life "argument" is totally logical and I just don't see the need for you to castigate MDN for believing and repeating it.

Guys this is version 1 of the iPhone. And the thing is a bloody miracle. Sure its not perfect but then what is.

Like the iPod, the iPhone is ahead of the competition is many new and exciting ways. Adding 3G capability is surely on the way in the next year. The tech improvements and network upgrades that Apple needs will be available by then.

I'm thinking wifi will provide good coverage soon, with the wireless data connectivity filling in the gaps when you need to slum it. Apple already has that in mind with the way the iPhone works.

the more these boards bash apple the more I know we are eating their lunch!!!!

go back a wine somewhere else please

thx!!

"The battery life "argument" is totally logical and I just don't see the need for you to castigate MDN for believing and repeating it."

Well, I'm glad it's logical to you, NOW. However, that's not what Apple themselves said at first. In February 2007, Tim Cook Stated:

Q: Could you go through some of the thinking of not putting 3G in the phone given that it is pretty much leading edge technology in every other aspect?

A: Our thinking first and foremost was that we wanted GSM. Because GSM is the world standard and that was one of the factors in selecting Cingular. Secondly, the product, as we announced, has Wi-Fi capabilities. And so many people, like in this room I'm sure there is Wi-Fi in this room as there are hot spots everywhere -- at your home, where you have coffee, your place of work, etc., etc. -- they're going to use Wi-Fi. And between these spots we are going to use EDGE because it is widely deployed. And we are confident it will give the user a great experience.

Not one mention of "Battery Life". So who should I believe, Apple's COO or some Fanboy who runs an Ad Laden Blog?

The Battery Life nonsense was created by Jobs much later and all of you fanboy just parrot the company line.... But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your cheerleading.

3 g = less battery life

that is a fact

I charge my iphone every 3 or 4 days you???

a blow hard like you must charge his verizon in his blow hard ass

Again, MDN parrots the party line. What are you going to say in January Steve when Jobs holds up the new 2nd generation 3G iPhone? Oh yes, in 6 months the battery life has grown leaps and bounds and now Apple can introduce 3G.

That's exactly what we'll say, because that's how technology advances. You know, over time things get invented and perfected, like the two years it took to create the iPhone in the first place. In fact, Apple improved the battery life between the time the phone was announced in January, and its release in June. So if one were not mentally divergent, one would expect another 6 months of development isn't an insignificant time frame for substantial improvements to be made.

I bought a touch (16 gig) rather than an iPhone. Since I have WiFi at home, in the office, and most of the motels I stay it is what works for me (plus my company provided phone does just fine for basic telephone services). An associate has an iPhone and I played with it one day where WiFi was not available. It's pathetic, slow and painful. No amount of fanboy cheerleading can change that.

And your ppoint here is what,exactly? That the iPhone has shortcomings? I don't think there is a single poster on MDN that would disagree with that. There are compromises to every piece of electronics, and the iPhone is no different. What you assume is that we are all subject to your particular needs and therefore those shortcomings effect is all in the same way, and this is obviously not true. Thinking that way is the realm of a toddler who thinks mommy is perfect and the whole world is his sandbox-toilet-feeding trough.

The battery life argument is a joke. I charge my phone and touch in the car and have them plugged in in the office. Never run out of power.

And of course, this is the standard upon which Apple should build its phone - the Shoeman Standard. We are all obviously in our cars all day long, and charging is never a problem, so why not throw in a battery-draining 3G chip? If the furthest you ever get from a power plug is the line at MacDonalds, it's the way to go. Never mind the habit of many people to:
1. Go outside
2. Enjoy nature
3. Form friendships
4. Feel the love of an intelligent woman
Since these factors are not included in Shoeman's average day, one can see the value in having a battery-crippling 3G chip to make pornography easier and quicker to access.

As mentioned, the 2nd generation iPhone will be 3G and cheaper - and a much better product. Apple screwed up using edge and I believe they know it. The Fanboy excuses regarding batter life are not necessary.

And the one after that will be even better. This is called "causality", and it leads to "logic", and most things in the world seem persistently bound to it. Using one technology to lead to another is the mistake that every electronics manufacturer seems to make time and again. If only they'd had your guidance, your brilliant visionary foresight, to enable them to skip over these small, technical details in order to build the phone you dream of.

Of course, you know as well as I do, this will never happen. Because when a model is made to satisfy your desires, those desires will change. This moving target is not born so much out of a desire for excellence, but a reflection of your dissatisfaction with your own personal failings. Lashing out in this way is a textbook example of the need to feel superior to others by degrading excellence around you, in the absence of any real talent, intelligence, or wit. Quite effective if one's audience is juvenile or inexperienced, but, sadly, a rather transparent grab for attention among mature, thinking people.

"I charge my iphone every 3 or 4 days you???

a blow hard like you must charge his verizon in his blow hard ass"

Wow, that's so impressive. You mean you don't have to take 3 or 4 seconds a day to plug your iPhone into a charger? My God, I can see why Apple went with the edge.

If I could save 3 seconds by plugging in my phone when I get in the car, and another 3 seconds when I get to my office I'd gladly accept watching webpages load in 2 minutes...

Thanks for straightening me out!!! I sure hope version 2 is Edge only!

Mr. Shoeman,

I for one have not had any issues whatsoever with edge for regular use. Google maps load quickly enough to make finding my way easy, the stocks and weather do as well. Email loads fine also... and I can surf most sites without much delay.

Perhaps the real problem is your expectations. I expect WiFi to be fast, and I know it is faster than 3G. I know in Japan right now they have 3.5 g and it is smoking fast, but battery life is garbage.

I want to be able to use my phone for more than 3 hours at a time. I am not tethered to my desk or car where power is available. When I leave home, I shut off Wifi and get more than 48 hours of battery life on a single charge with regular use (voice, ipod, email, surfing, etc). All of my friends are constantly charging their phones or cursing that they forgot their car charger... I never have that problem.

No, the iPhone is not perfect, but it is wonderful as it is. And it will get better. Just like everything else.

"Not one mention of "Battery Life". So who should I believe, Apple's COO or some Fanboy who runs an Ad Laden Blog?"

Maybe we could talk to CEO Steve Jobs about it. He's quite clearly quoted above. Let's take a look:

"3G chipsets... are real power hogs. Most phones now have battery lives of 2 to 3 hours and that's due to these very power-hungry 3G chipsets... [iPhone] has 8 hours of talktime life. That's really important when you start to use the Internet and want to use the phone to listen to music. We've got to see the battery lives for 3G get back up into the 5+ hour range. Hopefully we'll see that late next year." - Apple CEO Steve Jobs, September 18, 2007

So who should we believe, Apple's CEO or some troll who is otherwise completely anonymous?

This moving target is not born so much out of a desire for excellence, but a reflection of your dissatisfaction with your own personal failings. Lashing out in this way is a textbook example of the need to feel superior to others by degrading excellence around you, in the absence of any real talent, intelligence, or wit."

Yeah you don't see much of that at MDN...


Only idiots use Windows
Beleaguered Dell
Motorola is Toast
If Gates ever had any brains
make pornography easier and quicker to access.

Save me you're long winded spills. In my 50 years I've formed more lifelong relationships personal and professional than you will ever hope to. I have 3 great kids.

You guys are the most ignorant, insulting pieces of shit on the internet. I am a Mac user, not a blind fanboy. I don't feel the need to insult any product that isn't made by Apple and don't consider anyone who uses Windows a "Moron"...

Blow it out your ass fanboy, you're a 12 year old pile of shit, and when you grow up, you'll still stink.

I'm done and leaving. Go back to dreaming about sucking Steve's dick.

"If I could save 3 seconds by plugging in my phone when I get in the car, and another 3 seconds when I get to my office I'd gladly accept watching webpages load in 2 minutes...'

So again, you're saying that Apple should build a phone for Shoeman. the shPhone. Excellent idea. Let us know how that goes.

Save me you're long winded spills. In my 50 years I've formed more lifelong relationships personal and professional than you will ever hope to. I have 3 great kids.

Studies have shown that they're not that great.

You guys are the most ignorant, insulting pieces of shit on the internet.

No, that would be Bill O'Reilly. But don't fear, you're gaining ground quickly.

Blow it out your ass fanboy, you're a 12 year old pile of shit, and when you grow up, you'll still stink.

Now were in the realm of serious, mature dialog. Too bad all these infantile MDN posters use such foul, insulting language.

I'm done and leaving. Go back to dreaming about sucking Steve's dick.

I see my work here is done. Thank you.

-chrissyone

I think Shoeman would not be satisfied with anything less than the Maxwell Smart iShoephone.
As a designer of electronic systems one has to often make compromises, but the overriding constraint should always be usability and stability of function.
There is a small chip design Company back east working on the chip to satisfy the 3G mobile quandary... it is an interesting problem with its need of high energy peaks to ensure data fidelity in low signal areas.

@ NeonRed

Whoa there, easy with the 'science' there, Poindexter, he's likely to blow a vessel. That's a lot of big words in one sentence, and quite a few 'facts' as well.

Keep your audience in mind. Try using crayon.

@Shoeman, Have you tried Drinking Camel's Milk?

Firstly, even the largest of the UK networks (Vodafone) only offers 80% 3G coverage in the UK as opposed to 99.7% 2G cover so - for anyone in a non-urban location - the question of 2G vs. 3G is moot to the point of absurdity, given that you're probably closer to a Wi-Fi hotspot than to a 3G base station.

Secondly - and this is going to stir a few emotions - there is a solution to this tiresome topic of Apple tying the handset to its chosen service provider, even in the French scenario and it's quite simple: Apple should separate functionality updates for the iPhone from security updates or bug fixes.

Functionality updates can very easily be made exclusive to handsets which have valid contracts with the preferred national network - all Apple has to do is check the ESN of a phone against the billing systems of the network in the update and offer a comprehensive update for customers in good standing, whilst customers who have gone elsewhere only get security/bug-fix updates.

Inevitably, there will be whinging (and probably lawsuits) from people who think that Apple owes them the same level of service, but - to be blunt - fuck 'em.

In other words, functionality updates should be exclusive to Partner networks for 6-12 months and only be made available to "divorced" customers once that exclusivity period is over - that way you pays your money, you takes your choice: cutting-edge functionality with Apple's preferred network or deprecated functionality on the network of your choice.

The reason I ask is because you write as though you are above life.

If every product released for sale to the general public was as perfect as the ipod touch, no product would be released at all.

The original ipod was not as good as the ipod touch, should it have been shelved?
The original Mac was not as good as today's Mac, whould that have been shelved?
The original Mac Operating system was not as good as Leopard, should that have been shelved?

Nature is continously changing & adapting its own creation, should have shelved the first organism?

The very knowledge you posses is an accumulation of mankinds experience should mankind have waited to acquire today's knowledge before passing it on to your ancestors?

If you make the effort to Drink Camel's Milk, the Oily Harley Davidson sounding fart you release will make you realise that it is alright to release version 1.0 of any product as long as you have plans in place to build on it in order to keep improving it.

Ask M$!!! they are the leading proponents of that concept!

CORRECTION:- Should Nature have shelvedthe first organism?

"Apple's iPhone does not currently utilize 3G due to power consumption. "

Nobody believes that. Apple just couldnt get 3G in the device in time.

@ ChrissyOne
My heartfelt apologies...
Difficult to get the engineer out of this Macfanboy
I worked on MRI stuff in the past... and my younger bro is a senior hardware engineer at the forefront of the wireless telcom industry so i get used to cogent discussions on the pursuit of elegant, practical, and extant solutions to product design... No right to breathe it on MDN though... i just can get so incensed by blathering deficients who have never offered their blood designing anything...
I tried the crayons... but when i wiped them off my screen it was matte... not glossy anymore...hummm

"ATT doesn't have the coverage of 3G, then why have 3G in the iPhone"

1) Already the majority of people in the USA are covered by AT&T;'s 3G network (By population, not land area) and coverage is expanding all the time.
2) Once you experience 3G speeds in a phone, Edge will seem to you like dinosaur technology.

He's just angry that his kids won't put up with his crap anymore and shoveled him into a nursing home.

Wow, Shoeman, that was really juvenile.

MW = size
Shoeman is overcompensating for his small "size", and when I say "size" I mean his winkie.

@APPLE FAN BOY NEWS!!

Shoeman = egomaniac

You are so full of yourself (shit) you should get a brown zune.

MW = enough
as in, enough time wasted on this loser.

Well Shoeman, you've successfully turned this into a really fascinating thread about humanity...and very little to do with battery life...

Please do tell us where your passion and allegiances lie? You know where it lies for most of the people here. So, are you with a telco? Another phone manufacturer like Moto? Heven forbid, you're not from that little old monopoly from Redmond are you?

Help us paint the picture...

"I also have no problem paying for the site, domain, and bandwidth myself"

Well, paying for the "site" is trivial, since Wordpress is free. The domain will cost anywhere from $20-50 for a year, depending on the services to add. Certainly not a big deal for a 50 year-old guy with 3 kids. The bandwidth... well, let's not brag about how much bandwidth you're paying for just yet, okay kiddo?

@ NeonRed

I know. Thinking down to the level of the Shoeman's of the can cause one distress, even physical pain. If you try it again, please, make sure to do it in small, controlled bursts. Spend too long in the Shoeman Mindspace and you're likely to do some permanent damage. If you find yourself exclaiming, ironically, the someone is a "12 year old pile of shit", recognize this as an early danger sign. Log out of whatever chat site you might happen to be and and quickly find a book to read, or play some classical music, or call your brother and talk about engineering for a while. In a few minutes, you should be right as rain.

..."Shoeman's of the world can..."

Glad to see that you are still around Chrissy One! That goes for TowerTone & MCCFR.

Ps Chrissyone, I am already listening to classical music on itunes...The Stylistics Now, Previously The Temptations Memories The King is due next!!!! So do not be surprised by my absence. I am moving on.....nothing to see here!!!!

I am getting sick and tired of all the idiots whining and complaining about "lack of 3G." I've hand an iPhone since day one, and all but the largest, most complex pages I've visited on it load in a minute or less.

Good God, people, didn't your parent(s) teach you patience?!?!? And besides, it isn't like you are using your phone to surf the net is some kind of time sensitive life-and-death situation...

Which would you rather have, a good, solid, dependable, top of the line model, or something that is so cutting edge that if you are away from the power source for more than 3 hours all you have is a really neato expensive brick, and a power cord so you can charge it up?

Of course, I'm sure that, had the iPhone debuted with 3G, the same people would be complaining about battery life... I'm also sure that, when the iPhone does get 3G, the same people will start complaining about some other perceived flaw.

I guess there is no pleasing some people.

CMD
Keep the advice coming. I am currently mixing the milk with the kool-aid, and hoping for another rare Falcon victory.

And don't forget Sly and the Family Stone...Good luck!

MW:lost

Is "Shoeman" a shoe salesman? Hmmmmm?

Version 1.0 of the iPhone is quite a capable unit. Wonder why all the bitterness and hostility toward the Mac faithful? Shoeman, Apple is a business and it's obvious that 3G is not widely available like 2G, so why make a product that won't sell much? A 3G will definitely come soon but Apple is in the business of making great products that sell very well. Is that too hard to comprehend.

Stock is approaching $200. This holiday season is going to be another blowout! Stockholders will be very very happy I would imagine come January.

People please! Have we all forgotten MDN rule #1?

Do NOT feed the trolls.

When introducing a new product it is always nice to have an upgrade path established well before going to market. If the product is a huge hit (as the iPhone has been) it is wise to continue selling the initial configuration as long as demand levels and the quality of the competition will allow. Abandoning a configuration while demand still exceeds supply is leaving money on the table.

Be sure that they have 3G and Turbo 3G versions waiting in the wings for the upcoming Asian release, but be just as certain that it is smarter for them to delay the introduction of those versions as long as the demand for v. 1 remains as high as it is.

As consumers we all want the best possible product as soon as possible, but as stockholders we should want them to create and make the most out of as many demand waves as possible, milking the publicity machine for new introductions at each turn and getting several rounds of new sales out of early adopters rather than blowing their wad in one shot.

"Do NOT feed the trolls."

I don't. I eviscerate them.

@TowerTone


You my friend are forgeting the ONE thing that the iPhone has that NO OTHER mobile phone will ever have.

And that is a small thing called 'software update'.

You want flash on the iphone? - bang there it is in an Apple software update!, you want better bluetooth compatibility? - bang there it is in an Apple software update!, you want to be able to open any file format? - bang there it is in an Apple software update!, you want skpe or voip nativly on the iPhone? - bang there it is in an Apple software update!

All you guys are forgeting that this phone IS SOFTWARE DRIVEN. There is no buttons on the iphone apart from the home button! Apple can make this phone do anything it wants too if they want to!

Just be patient and wait for the software updates.

Like Steve Jobs has said countless times... "It's all about the software".

The iPhone can be anything you want it to be - for christs sake you can even download and install other apps now - just go to the Apple website!

"All you guys are forgeting that this phone IS SOFTWARE DRIVEN. There is no buttons on the iphone apart from the home button!"

You're right, that had completely slipped my mind! Try classical music!

MW: 'girl' (interpolated)