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If its main purpose is to drive paid video downloads from iTunes....

Daniel Eran Dilger Rules.....O K!!!

...then it ain't enough?

Hairy has a new 42" tv and 160 Gig Apple TV, just came back from Vietnam with his digital pictures and movies. The display of pictures on the tv via the Apple TV impressed Hairy's dinner guests no end...PC people couldn't get over the way the pictures display on their own at random.
To-day Hairy went to the library and selected ten DVDs. No charge, except in municipal taxes. Hairy has the Apple TV for his home movies, pictures, and itunes collection and the convenience of using the Apple remote instead of those multi-button remotes that come with tv sets and cable boxes....Hairy can't live without his Apple TV, and this is just after two weeks.

TV video looks great. Standard or HD video on a 52in HDTV. Only the very first videos that iTunes offered were substandard.

I agree with the fact that movie studios want too much money, but movie rentals help alot. TV shows are fairly expensive, since we rarely want to watch them over and over. Compared to cable or even Netflix.

Most people have Broadband these days. And most Broadband is fast enough. 3.0 or faster...

May 30, 08 - 12:36 pm Comment from: Jim - TIV

barriers hold back, not up

i think there is only one reason holding it back, which is content. i have a pretty average 6Mb dsl flatrate here in germany (30 euros a month) and movies rented from the store start after roughly 30 seconds. quality is like dvd on my 42" plasma, no issus here. the only reason i more often go to the local store to rent movies is having no selection in german and having only a small selection on the U.S. store. so again: it's only the movie studios being afraid of the paradigm shift. as long as they hold back the content the apple tv won't fly.

May 30, 08 - 12:43 pm Comment from: HMCIV

I'm waiting for Apple & the TV Studios to figure out how to rent a whole TV season.

I own an appleTV and love it. The quality of video and audio are excellent. I'm running it on a 42" LCD at 720p w/ home theater audio setup. I would have to say that the only opinion that makes sense is that:
"Studios want DVD-like profits from higher quality downloads."

I want AppleTV but I have older TV set and ATV will not work with it.
Other than that, I would love to have it for pics, music and home vids, no rentals necessary.

May 30, 08 - 12:53 pm Comment from: Cubert

Duh, duh, and no duh!

What holds back Apple TV is Apple crippling the machine--it is a nice piece of hardware ruined by lousy software that purposely limits its usability.

I thought that was what Sony does, not Apple.

1) No way to install additional codecs. Want to play divx files? Tough---even though that is the format most people's video files are in. Want to play shn or flac files? Tough.

2) No directory-level network sharing or file browsing. Everything has to be done through iTunes. I have a 500 GB drive filled with TV shows and movies converted over to mp4s. Why the hell can't I just plug the drive into the AppleTV's USB port? Instead, I have to have computer running iTunes, plug the drive into that, load the movies into iTunes, and then stream then to the AppleTV. That makes a lot of sense.

3) I have an old 500 MHz G4. iTunes is a complete dog-slow nightmare on this machine. Firefly media server, on the other hand, is nice and quick and is fine for streaming files to various Macs. But NOT the AppleTV since the AppleTV is purposely crippled to connect only to iTunes using a combination code, so to limit the number of machines it can stream from. Absolutely retarded.

4) It would be neat to see what developers could come with as for applications running on a TV set, maybe we could finally get some of the things seen on sci fi movies. Gee, I wish someone would make a box loaded with a real, powerful operating system, maybe even a UNIX derived operating system, that could plug into a big-screen TV. Maybe even a UNIX derived operating system with a well-regarded set of development tools and object-oriented development libraries. Oh, you mean Apple did that? Good thing they locked the OS up so that all it can do is run a version of Front Row.

Sure, you can do some things by hacking the thing, either breaking open the box or following obscure directions involving USB key drives, but of course then Apple does is wipe out the hacks with the next software update.

I've had the AppleTV since the day it was released, and it is just a lower-specced Mac Mini intentionally crippled almost every way possible by Apple.

May 30, 08 - 01:12 pm Comment from: jtc

@Jim - TIV
If you think about it... lots of times im sure you have heard in person someone running ahead and someone yelling "Hey, hold up" which is the same as wait up... So really it does make sense for them to say hold up instead of hold back. Either can be used because either or are correct.

Most Youtube videos look like shite on my 50" Plasma, but iTunes rentals look pretty darn good via my AppleTV, even the standard definition ones.

In my opnion, content is still holding back AppleTV, as well as versatility. The AppleTV should be like an iPod touch for my big screen (Hello Apple, the internet is rich with media that I would like to view on my big screen).

Unfortunately, it is nothing more than iTunes for my HDTV, and not even a good copy of iTunes at that. If you have ever tried to navigate AppleTV, you know what I mean.

Dilger need to get a better TV.

My whole family all my friends love our Apple TV. Not one of the three things he mentions is really the issue. People (the general public) are not quite equiped for it yet. Here is what I have found:

1. A large portion of the public still don't have HDTV's and some of those who do have poor quality sets.

2. A large portion of the public don't have 802.11 "N" wireless connections yet. A lot of the public have wireless homes but they are using older wireless systems and don't see a need to replace it because their internet works just fine.

3. Lack of knowledge and money.

Yes I have a incredible entertainment setup at my house but it wasn't cheap. To do it right here is what it could cost you.

1. HDTV ~ $1000-$3000 (depending on choice).
2. 802.11N ~ $99-$180 for Airport Express/Extreme or equal.
3. Apple TV ~ $230-$330 depending on hard drive (choice?).
4. Cables ~ $50-$150 for good cables.
5. Surround Sound ~ $400-$1500 (depending on choice).
6. Hi-speed internet connection ~ (assumed you already have)

You can't really piece this together and do it right so you have an expense of around $3000-$4000 dollars or more depending on your choice.

That is why it's not selling in huge numbers. How much of the general public really has that kind of money to invest now days with the price of gas, food and still pay their bills.

Next year things will change when all the broadcasts will be HD. That still doesn't mean people are going to go running out and buy HDTV's. Their old stereo's work just fine and their wireless systems still run websites fast enough so why upgrade.

The general public is just not ready for the "Jetson" life style.

Please forgive spelling and grammer, I was typing as fast as I could.

Only 15% of all TV's in US households are HDTV's...

Apple is addressing only 15% of the market with Apple TV.

Apple's market reaches only 37.5 million HDTV's, vs. the 250 million overall TV's out there...

Not being able to address the additional 212.5 million TV's with a solution is a problem...

Even if Apple were to sell 1 Apple TV for every 5 HDTV's sold, we are talking about 7.5 million Apple TV's sold, or about 1.5 million per quarter.

Apple will not say how many have been sold, but per quarter might be more like 500k - 750k or so... Not a huge deal.

Thus, Apple is addressing probably 10% - 15% of all HDTV's sold at present with an Apple TV. That's a decent connect rate for a new device and technology, but nowhere the reach it could have if Apple did one simple thing:

Deliver an analog video output port!

Of course, Hollywood won't allow this, because they think standard folk will suddenly pirate and share with everyone on the planet (stupid is as stupid does).

Thus Apple is forced to continue it's current path with HDTV's only.

Apple TV's will truly take off in sales when WiMAX is introduced into the box, and Apple hooks up with ESPN, TNT and other networks. When Apple can offer ESPN for $3.99 or in HD for $4.99 a month al-a-carte, or any network you wish without a lame cable or dish package to sign up for, Apple will dominate.

DVDs looked great on my 27" HDTV. When I got a 42" HDTV last black Friday, DVDs looked bad, blocky, and I just couldn't watch them anymore. I even purchased and returned an upscaling player that didn't help improve the picture. I've been holding out for an inexpensive BluRay player but it is taking too long. I decided to purchase an Apple TV about a month ago. I was interested in being able to pipe music in to my surround sound as well as rent movies. The first movie I rented was HD and although it took quite a while to download over my 1.54mbps Motorola Canopy wireless connection the picture was phenomenal on my 42" set. Then I rented a standard definition movie and it turns out to look great too and the image is smooth unlike DVDs. I hope that Apple TV keeps gaining momentum and gets more feature and options. It is also great with gas prices being up and living in a rural mountain area. I can grab a standard movie and start watching it in about 15 minutes. The only really irritating issue is the having to complete watching a movie in 24 hours. I have already had to stop watching one to respond to a volunteer fire call, return and need to go to bed, return from work the next day but have another activity that ran out the clock before I could finish the movie. Doh - Let's try seven days please . . .

May 30, 08 - 01:34 pm Comment from: iWill

Let's skate to where the puck will be, not has been.

Add ABC.com, Hulu (Faux & NBC) & CBS.com ad supported to Apple TV in a manner similar to YouTube. That way people willing to put up with ads get a form of Internet protocol TV. It's a quick way to add a ton of content to Apple TV and would move quite a few units.

P.S. Time-Warner & Comcast are in the process of putting bandwidth and monthly volume caps on their residential accounts. They have been sending out changes to the terms of service, which most have not read and probably threw away. This could kill Apple TV as an iPTV device.

Just thought you might like to know...

May 30, 08 - 01:55 pm Comment from: TowerTone

"barriers hold back, not up"
Because that would make them 'brariers'.....


Anyone with more nerve and money than me try one of these yet?

http://www.macuser.com/apple-tv/easy_apple_tv_hacking.php

well, crap, as of like right now it's unavailable. Sins of witches!

This guy's 3rd point about the lack of bandwidth is correct. I'm in San Francisco with Comcast cable broadband (avg ~ 6-8 Mbps) and it's still too slow for downloading movies.

Until our home connections are fast enough to enable almost "instant-on", none of these devices will be very successful.

I have an Apple TV. It's a fantastic device for listening to my iTunes library, looking at my iPhoto pictures, and watching the very few TV shows that I have purchased. It is mediocre for renting movies because the network is too slow. It's not the device. It's the network!

May 30, 08 - 02:11 pm Comment from: El Guapo

I would also like the ability to play multiple language tracks, similar to what many DVD's now offer.

May 30, 08 - 02:18 pm Comment from: shen

"This guy's 3rd point about the lack of bandwidth is correct. I'm in San Francisco with Comcast cable broadband (avg ~ 6-8 Mbps) and it's still too slow for downloading movies. "

whaa?!?

i get 3Mbps and aside from a 45 second to start the film it works flawlessly.

maybe comcast is throttling down the stream?

Who does Dilger blame for AppleTV's lack of success? Not Apple. No, it is your fault as a citizen for not willingly and gratefully subsidizing the technology for instant entertainment with more intrusive local, state, and/or federal taxation.

"(Immediate access to HD quality entertainment) is unlikely to change until the government begins the public taxpayers begin seeing the need to serve citizens raise their taxes rather than just making it easier for corporations to make money."

That's it, Dilger the cretin, governmental responsibilities to "serve" the nation include preserving life, liberty, and immediate access to HD episodes of "The Simpsons". Strangely, I and over 200 million other citizens must have missed that part of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Frankly, I see no "need" to give my taxes to corporations such as Apple, NetFlix, or Microsoft. Do businesses like Apple, NetFlix, or Microsoft not make enough profit that citizens "need" to fill their coffers with our tax dollars?

This begs the question, "Why did Apple devote time and money to launch AppleTV when so many technological obstacles and barriers to instant entertainment pre-existed?" Dilger conveniently fails to address why Apple and others engaged in business endeavors that he argues were destined for failure because the technological prerequisites for success were conspicuously missing.

Another thing, Dilger the moron, how is it that certain groups that deliver entertainment products to your home should be guaranteed a certain fee (i.e Apple, NetFlix, and Microsoft) but the studios who produce the entertainment you want are exempt from charging a fair profit? And what gives you the right to arbitrarily determine what is a fair profit?

Dilger, you're simply an imbecile and so is anyone else that agree with your dimwitted ranting and rationalizations.

May 30, 08 - 02:53 pm Comment from: TowerTone

I get 7 megs down, and when I rented a hi-def movie, it was ready to start in less than two minutes.

The popcorn wasn't even through popping.....

May 30, 08 - 02:57 pm Comment from: studentrights

No DVD drive!

I want one device for all of my movies and music. Just because I have a DVD drive doesn't mean I won't buy from iTunes.

May 30, 08 - 03:06 pm Comment from: HolyMackerel

Some simple software fixes to improve AppleTV:

• auto-recognise an external USB drive (mentioned above)
• net-share DVD, BlueRay (using MBA technology) or support external USB DVD drive- and don't tell me this would stop Apple's download sales, since MacOS X plays movie DVDs not purchased through Apple
• support USB EyeTV or other D-TV input - and don't tell me this would stop Apple's download sales, since iTunes supports importing music CD-ROMs not purchased through Apple
• release an AppleTV SDK and sell games/utilities in App store
• add Bluetooth (via USB is necessary) to support 3rd party external input devices

You wrote, "maybe comcast is throttling down the stream?"

Yeah, right. Comcast is deliberately slowing their throughput because increasing wait times for internet access and delaying data transfer are sure fire methods of increasing public satisfaction and generating company profits.

You obviously didn't read Dilger's treatise of tripe. It's all your fault, Shen. I don't know how you can live with yourself.

HolyMackerel has provided the answers to instantaneous access to HD video.

Hmmm. Now why didn't the self-professed genius, Dilger, comprehend these unmistakable solutions? Maybe Dilger is simply a moron for missing such obvious cures to evenings of absent entertainment.

May 30, 08 - 04:41 pm Comment from: January 24, 1984

I've got 6 MB DSL (5 MB in reality), and a MacMini driving a 50" 720p HDTV. The rentals are great, even though MacMini is limited to 480p movies which start almost instantly.

Sound and picture quality seems very good.

"Where the puck will be." Right.

May 30, 08 - 04:50 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

I watch my first HD movie on my Apple TV. It demolished all three of the suggested barriers.
1-The quality was magnificent on my 47" LCD 1080p TV.
2-The movie was ready to watch once 1% of it was downloaded, it took less the 3 minutes.
3-It cost 4.99 to see and it was a fairly recent movie. So in my case it's here, it's ready, and it's extremely good quality.

"The general public is just not ready for the "Jetson" life style."

They are, but they're buying it for $100 one off and $8.95 fixed/month from Netflix.

"Dilger, you're simply an imbecile"

Since when was this news to anyone?

May 30, 08 - 05:06 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

TV needs 1080p. PERIOD.

Sure, there are fewer Full-HD TVs out there. But as prices drop, many people are replacing their old TVs with HDTV.

Until then, for me, a Mac mini is a better choice to connect to a Full-HDTV as a full-time media server. Yeah, it costs more, BUT it does SO MUCH MORE than an TV because it's a full-tilt Macintosh. I can connect an external FIREWIRE hard drive to add capacity.

That means I can run EVERY application I've got on my hard drive or network! Safari. Google Earth. Mail. Games. It's cool to sit back with my Apple Wireless keyboard and Bluetooth mouse and show people stuff on my 40" HDTV, not crowd around my 20" monitor.

Build for the future, not what's out there now.

"Dilger, you're simply an imbecile"

Since when was this news to anyone?

The fanbois at MDN who consider Dilger the epitome of Apple intellectualism.

I'm running my aTV on an 18-year-old 32" Tohsiba TV via a S-Video converter than downscales to 480i. Works like a charm.

What OpJ said, the Mac mini is an uncrippled version. If it's discontinued, just hook an old tower to the TV. It'll play anything, thanks to VLC - my movies with my subtitles in my formats with my languages of choice. Apple's DVD player will never be used because of its region limitations whereas my dvd player dudn't give a shit. Conclusion: make it mine, then give me the option to buy your stuff.

the 3 reasons holding me from getting AppleTV are:
- lack of 1080p support
- lack of DVR capability
- lack of BlueRay drive

When Apple implements any of those (or combination) I will be getting AppleTV in a heartbeat.
PS. Don't give me "BlueRay not needed" or "BlueRay is dead" - I need it for playing home movies from my HD camcorder - and yes, scr*w movie studios for hefty BlueRay movie prices.

++






DVR Support




++

May 30, 08 - 11:06 pm Comment from: NCIceman

I have one more: old-school grognards like me who like to own media.

One could also add that the price point doesn't make sense: for a typical tv show, buying the individual downloads usually costs more than buying the dvd set at a store. So you get a lower rez picture, no permanent media, for a greater cost. Sorry, gotta beat that before digital download takes off.

May 31, 08 - 01:43 am Comment from: bobchr

@OpJ
Yes intentionally cripped at the order of an industry obsessed with profits and protection against piracy. Yet even with all the trouble you say you're having you still seem to be able to watch you dubiuosly obtained content. So either upgrade your systems or quit complaining.

As for all the other yahoos that claim ATV needs 1080P support. Test demonstrated on this very site by an independent service would indicate otherwise. The test concluded that among the highest resolution provided by Cable and phone companes when compared to ATV's max resolution of 1080I (yes mine has that option), ATV's content came the closest to near 1080P when compared to a Bluray disk.

Broadcast HD currently uses only 1080I max due to limitations in Bandwidth. For all you videophiles out there that claim yuo can tell the difference, it sound like the audiophile at the beginning of the CD era that claimed they could hear the bit transitions in the D/A converters when the music was being converted back to analog audio, which is totally silly.

May 31, 08 - 01:53 am Comment from: bobchr

Lower quality videos only look good on small CRT's so I don't know what this guy is thinking. The ultimate resolution of the end device resolution will either display the content with brilliant fidelity or show the flaws of older content warts and all.

Ever watch old porn circa 1910 to 1960? I'm talking about the kind of stuff your dad or your friends dad would keep in a special drawer in garage and bring out at stag parties full of cigars cards and cheap beer. The worst content on ATV is no where near bad as some of that stuff and yet that stuff still floats around the internet making billions a year. Go figure...some people just like to complain.

"Apple intellectualism"

There's an oxymoron.

• Lower quality downloads don’t look very good on HDTV sets.

Remember AppleTV is above the $20 DVD-player-from-WalMart crowd. At this level HD had better be HD.

• Studios want DVD-like profits from higher quality downloads.

This is only short-term; the old school studios will need to either adapt or die. As for Apple, they can work closer with Disney, or even turn iTunes into a studio.

• Video downloads are big, and require fast network access to deliver.

Obviously. Not everyone has good connection into their living room. Things will change when WiMAX is more prevalent.

arrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I don't understand any of this, maybe I should spend more of my life in front of TV rather than living it?

May 31, 08 - 10:07 pm Comment from: TowerTone

The 720p looks great on my Pioneer 720p 42" plasma.
!080P would not help.
If I had a 1080p LCD, the 720p video would look just as good as 1080p.
If I had a screen over 60", I might be able to see a difference between 720 and 1080 up close.
720p files load much faster than a pointless 1080p file.
To those who say " I won't buy until they offer 1080P", then don't. It is your loss.
I want the option to buy an HD movie for an additional $10-$15 after renting it.
I don't care to buy the standard definition.
I also want games with the iPhone as a controller.
I believe Apple has a lot in store for the TV, or I wouldn't have bought one.
Remote DVD access would be great. The remote controls iTunes, why not DVD Player? Big files? Can't 802.11n handle it?

god deluded-it's not how much time you spend doing anything, it is the quality. Are you using an Apple computer? 'nuff said.

Get either VisualHub or the FREE MPEG StreamClip.

Now your Apple TV plays many varieties of video.