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Apr 05, 08 - 10:20 am Comment from: 7over

Why spend that much on an iPhone from the States when T-Mobile Germany is about to put the 8 GB model on sale for $122 USD on April 7th? Buy it there and bring it back to Manhattan for sale outside an Apple Store.

Now THAT sounds like a way to make some cash!

Bring on 3G and the SDK and let my AAPL go to $500.00 !!!

Thanks Steve !!!

Apr 05, 08 - 10:26 am Comment from: Tommy Boy

That T-mobile sale price includes a German service contract. Add two years of service in and the price doesn't seem so good compared to an unlocked American phone when your reselling in one of the 200+ countries on this planet where you can't officially buy an iPhone.

I just always found it strange that the Iphone is a GSM phone but can't be used anywhere else in the world. Any GSM phone you can pop in a SIM card and use it anywhere. Who cares if someone buys 50 iphone Apple Wins. Any company who does work with Apple will know that they will eventually lose.

Apr 05, 08 - 10:29 am Comment from: lee

I've seen iPhones on display in at least one retail cell phone outlet in Montréal, Québec. Insofar as the thing isn't yet officially available in Canada ... well, what more is there to say?

Apr 05, 08 - 10:42 am Comment from: macaholic

@dizil
I read your post 3 times, and I have one thing to ask you. WTF are you talking about?

What in the world is "legally questionable?" Buy something, take it somewhere where people want it, and sell it for more. Get rewarded for initiative and risk. Declare the income on your taxes. "Legally questionable"? Bite me.

dizil: I just always found it strange that the Iphone is a GSM phone but can't be used anywhere else in the world. Any GSM phone you can pop in a SIM card and use it anywhere.

Of course you can use it anywhere - you "just" have to go through the outrageously expensive roaming scheme of your home provider. Not ideal by any means, but not a technical problem.

dizil: Who cares if someone buys 50 iphone Apple Wins. Any company who does work with Apple will know that they will eventually lose.

Doesn't look like it, actually, though some of Apple's partners seem oblivious to the chances they're holding in their hands.

Sounds like capitalism to me! It is not an illegal or contraband substance.

I live in the Netherlands and I know about 10 people with an iPhone. Going to the Web 2.0 Expo in San Fran in 3 weeks and I'm gonna take one or two with me. YES, a lot of iPhone purchased in the US make their way out.

counter-revolution, counter-revolution, we're the volunteers of America, counter-revolution.

Apr 05, 08 - 12:32 pm Comment from: Cubert

@Keith Moon,
You had better be using those AAPL shares to buy a shitload of booze and pills. You gotta live up to your rep.

Apr 05, 08 - 12:32 pm Comment from: Jay-Z

@ Sheep Register and MikeH:

If, by purchasing an iPhone, you are also obliged to enter into a contract with a carrier and you fail to do so, you are breaking the law. There's nothing legally questionable about it. It's illegal.

@Jay-Z...

But you're not legally required to enter into a contract with AT&T;when you purchase an iphone in the USA. So it's not illegal to purchase an iPhone, take it overseas, and sell it there.

Apr 05, 08 - 12:51 pm Comment from: Denny

@dizil

I just came back from a 9 day tour in Sicily and used my iPhone everyday via Vodaphone which offers great reception in the areas that I visited. The AT&T;rates were great @ 95 cents per minute and an extra $25 for 25 mb of data roaming. I checked my email several times a day as well aa stocks and several internet sites.

What are you talking about?

Dizel = "Ignoranus" - someone who has the dubious distinction of being an idiot and an a-hole at the same time.

""Smuggling iPhones has become a lucrative,..."

There's something fishy about this article.
The most obvious thing to me is that there is nothing illegal about crossing borders with a cell phone. Thus, traveling with cell phones, for resale or not, is not "smuggling".
Because of the misleading opening paragraph, I declined the forced subscription to read the rest of the article.

LOL... 900 dollars??

It's near cheaper for an European to fly to America and get one there for 399 dollar (270 euro)... So why spend 900 dollar??

Apr 05, 08 - 02:05 pm Comment from: Reality Check

Sell it for $900 in Europe? I don't think so. You can buy "grey market" unlocked phones in Europe for the same price as official contract-locked phones. Easily. The only benefit of buying in the US is the pathetically weak dollar, which makes the iPhone 30% cheaper or so than in Europe.

Apr 05, 08 - 02:35 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

I have iPhones stashed all over the world in safety deposit boxes, along with $10,000 cash, several passports, and a 9mm semi-auto.

You just never know, ya know?

Apr 05, 08 - 03:12 pm Comment from: shen

"there is nothing illegal about crossing borders with a cell phone."

isn't that covered by the patriot act?

I'm responsible for at least 6 iPhones in Hungary (8 if you count the two that I asked my parents to bring). I'm heading back tomorrow with two more. I'm not making any money. I'm just buying them for friends who really want iPhones but can't get one because T-Mobile Hungary has not yet introduced them. In the past month I've seen more iPhones than ever in Budapest.

Everytime I send someone for training to the U.S. (about 30 persons each quarter) they always come back with iPhones and iPods for their families, friends and co-workers. No financial gain, just a way to get what everyone wants at a fair price.

Apr 05, 08 - 05:35 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

People used to pay for trips selling "extra" paris of blue jeans.It's the same thing here.

It ain't smuggling, it's capitalism.

@theloniousMac -
"I have iPhones stashed all over the world in safety deposit boxes, along with $10,000 cash, several passports, and a 9mm semi-auto."

Good one. I think that's in the next Borne movie. Jason will be giving out a couple of iPhones to locals in every country he visits.

"People used to pay for trips selling "extra" paris of blue jeans.It's the same thing here.

It ain't smuggling, it's capitalism."

A trip to the USSR in the late 70's we traded a pair of Levi's and a Jean jacket for a car! Used the car for the 3 weeks there then sold it for $50USD- heck of a deal.

Apr 05, 08 - 11:38 pm Comment from: Connor MacBook

I hope Apple eventually decides that locking them is futile, but I guess so long as they're getting their cut from the carriers it's unlikely.

Man, count me in that one. I brought back 15 in my suitcase to a Nordic country. Those puppies sold faster than an unauthorized Paris Hilton porn flick.

3G iPhone in 60 days?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/04/05/walt-mossberg-promises-3g-iphone-in-60-days/

@Webster's Idiot Finder

If you are going to use a big, grown up sounding word to slam another poster, then at least try to spell it correctly. Otherwise you risk to look like "an idiot and an a-hole at the same time" yourself. Your best chance of finding an idiot is to look in the mirror.

All the people who think this isn't a big deal are apparently unaware that Apple sells iPhones at a loss, and they only break even after a couple months of fees from At&T;.

It's a Big Deal!

@Thomas

Apple does NOT sell the iPhone at a loss. That is a myth put around by those who cannot understand Apple's business model.

If you consider that the iPod Touch is virtually the same internals minus the phone components and they sell that at a profit, and the cost difference is more than sufficient to cover the additional components needed for a phone.

The other phone manufacturers would say they sell at a loss also, but do not believe that either. It is an accounting trick around how they amortise the capital costs of their R & D for a new product. But it is still a trick at the end of the day to justify higher prices.

Apple makes a profit on every iPhone sold no matter where it is sold or whether it gets an authorised service contract. If it does get an authorised service contract it earns them more money, but they have still made a profit on the base unit.

It is not (only) about commercial smuggling. There is no business or vacation travel from Europe (and elsewhere) to the US where the traveler hasn't been asked by friends or colleagues to return with an iPhone or two.
Most of these people then use these with their current SIMs and just extend their plan to cover some extra traffic for checking emails or occasional surf sessions.
Least of them would use these phones to activate them with an Apple blessed provider.
As described in the article, avg saving vs. a purchase in Europe is beyond 150$. And times where people pay an extra 50 bucks for unlocking are over. ZiPhone and 2 minutes of time is all you need.
Yes, Steve has a growing problem to solve with the partner carriers, not with those unlocking people. These are the crazy ones, the rebels... they bring Apple further. He loves them!

"Tourists snapping up Apple iPhones" - does that mean the tourists are snappy?

@Steves Job

Are you dumb ...

Maybe some one will "spell" the joke out for you.

Apr 06, 08 - 08:29 am Comment from: ken1w

True, Apple loses some ongoing revenue when this happens. But it's a good thing in the long run. (1) Apple still makes a profit on the sale, even if the iPhone is not used on the official network. (2) Apple can use these "pre-sold" iPhones in new markets as a negotiating tool to obtain better contract terms with the company wanting to be the exclusive carrier. (3) Apple will eventually be in those markets where these iPhones are being sold "illegally"; there is a good chance those "lost" iPhones will find there way back to a revenue earning contract with the official iPhone carrier.

I don't see a downside. And, of course this is happening, especially with the dollar being weak.

Apr 06, 08 - 08:35 am Comment from: Anonymous©

I'm here in Shanghai, China today. And, I was in the Old Town, where all the tourists go. While buying some pearls, I saw a european tourist, German, pull out an iPhone and demonstrate it to his tour guide. Next thing I know, his Chinese tour guide pulls out his iPhone.

I suppose I shouldn't have been too surprised. What did surprise me was how well, Google Maps worked. I could triangulate my location pretty well. China Mobile has better cell coverage, even in the rural countryside than AT&T;does in Eastern NC. I seem to always get 5 bars, and Edge coverage.

Speaking of China Mobile, there are stores everywhere, and Nokia has a HUGE presence. I suppose they're not all smartphones, but Apple has a way to go to get mindshare.

Apr 06, 08 - 09:45 am Comment from: Jay-Z

@ Jim-TIV:

From the back of the iPhone box:

Requirements: Minimum two-year wireless service plan with AT&T;required to activate all iPhone features, including iPod features.

Like it or not, the only way to legally activate an iPhone purchased in the U.S. is to sign a contract with AT&T;. If Apple or AT&T;wanted to go after you, they could.

Maybe we could dig a tunnel under the ocean just to make it feel more illegal!

Apr 06, 08 - 04:26 pm Comment from: Predrag

To Thomas:

After nine months of having iPhone on the market, there virtually hundreds of articles everywhere, from day one, about the cost breakdown for the iPhone. It all boiled down to this: it costs Apple around $220 to make the iPhone. They are obviously making very nice profits on every iPhone ever sold. Also obviously, they are making even much more with a signed contract ($8 to $12 per month, plus activation bonus between $50 and $150). I am surprised after this much time, someone can still come here and claim that Apple is losing money on non-activated iPhones!

As for the "requirements" from the back of the box, they are not a legal contract. Nowhere on the box does it say that "...by purchasing the phone, purchaser legally accepts to activate the device with a minimum of two years of service". The only legal agreement purchaser accepts is once they activate the phone through iTunes. Until that, they have perfectly legally purchased a brick. What they do with it after that (in legal terms) purchase is no different to what happens after purchasing an iPod (or a desk lamp, a dishwasher, or a pair of shoes).

Requirements on the box refer to the functioning phone. In other words, in order for the iPhone to function properly, purchaser is required to activate the two-year plan. If they don't care to have it function properly, they don't need to do that. Same as System Requirements on software boxes. You could legally buy any software without even owning a computer. In order for it to function, though, you'll need a computer that meets the requirements.

To wrap up, nothing illegal here. Apple is profiting on every extra iPhone sold (a sale that would never have occurred, if the iPhone could never be unlocked).

Apr 06, 08 - 10:09 pm Comment from: Rory Misener

I live in Buffalo and was at the Apple Store here a couple weeks ago when I noticed a Canadian guy buying four iPhones. You can't tell me he wasn't going to unlock and resell those things. (not that I have a problem with that or anything!)

Apr 06, 08 - 11:11 pm Comment from: Jay-Z

@ Predrag:

Requirements on the back of the box are not a legal contract. Point taken. However, the iPhone Software License Agreement is legally binding, and it's a violation of the iPhone software license agreement to modify the iPhone software (part 2.(c)), which includes the Boot ROM and embedded software (part 1.). Thus, only Apple can legally activate the iPhone software (unless someone figures out how to do it without modifying the software), and a contract with AT&T;is required to activate any iPhone that is purchased in the U.S. Says so on the box.

You may not like it. You may not care. Apple doesn't seem to care. I don't really care either. I only argued because I've been sick in bed with nothing better do to. But none of that changes the fact that there is nothing legally questionable about this; it's illegal.

unlocking is free, most places you can get an unlocked iPhone for a $100 premium, not $900.

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