“President George W. Bush signed into law on Monday a bill that would stiffen penalties on movie and music piracy at the federal level,” Diane Bartz reports for Reuters.
Don’t steal music. – Apple
Bartz reports, “The law creates an intellectual property czar who will report directly to the president on how to better protect copyrights both domestically and internationally… The law also toughens criminal laws against piracy and counterfeiting.”
“The Recording Industry Association of America and Motion Picture Association of America backed the bill, as did the U.S. Chamber of Commerce,” Bartz reports.
Full article here.
Still for fighting the axes of evil?? lol
This man calls himself a Republican?
When are these chowderheads going to get it? Content providers no longer control the content they create. Anti-piracy measures don’t work. The only way to combat piracy is to offer unrestricted content that is easily accessed and reasonably priced because the majority of people who can afford to pay WILL pay if it’s not too much hassle.
You’ve got to be kidding.
Does this president have a knack for being hated, or what?
The worst legislation since the DMCA.
And to think I voted for this twat!
I won’t vote for a socialist – ever. Bye-bye O-bummer
Dumbya just stated today that he has a lot left to accomplish in his last 100 days in office. Hasn’t he done enough damage? He’s taken more vacation than any president in history – can’t he just take the last 100 days off and put himself out of our misery???
Forget the kids. They steal music because they can’t afford it. Before peer-to-peer they copied CDs, before CDs they copied records onto tape, before records they copied sheet music and played it on guitars.
The focus should be on getting the adults who can afford it to pay. And they will pay when it is easily able to be purchased. I am sick of the number of times I have gone to purchase music and found it cannot be purchased from a site because it is unable from that store, or from that country, or only in album format, etc. Get this fixed and then prosecute the rich white adult pirates who can afford to pay but don’t, or the street pirates. Don’t pick on the poor and defenceless you pansies.
Is anyone afraid to use Limewire?
I am sometimes…
And to think I voted for this twat!
I won’t vote for a socialist – ever. Bye-bye O-bummer
But Ron, you voted for a Fascist! Thanks a lot for ruining the country.
The law creates an intellectual property czar who will report directly to the president on how to better protect copyrights both domestically and internationally
Translated: federally sanctioned DRM.
Would’ve Obama signed this bill?
Wow, what a legacy this guy is leaving behind. Quick can anyone else think of anything ol’ W. can do to make himself even more unpopular?
Would Obama sign this? Would Obama hang out with terrorists? Of course he would. Socialists want gov’t control of everything. You think W was bad… the next 4 years will be a real hoot.
One word: Transmission.
Bush is a loser.
But you all must save America from the radical Socialist Obama before it’s too late !
For Pete’s sake, can’t we intelligently discuss the actual issue and content of the article without the thread deteriorating into political rants and propaganda?
Count the days people. Not long now…
Right, ron, because there’s nothing socialistic about John McCain.. other than his cheerleading support of the $700 billion bailout, his $300 billion “Home Resurgence” where the tax payers eat the bill instead of lenders, his intention to tax health benefits so he can give the money right to insurance companies and God knows what new treats he plans to unveil tomorrow.
John McCain: the true fiscal conservative because he shouts about earmarks, he has a pen and he’ll “make them famous” (whoever them are).
> Wow, what a legacy this guy is leaving behind. Quick can anyone else think of anything ol’ W. can do to make himself even more unpopular?
What, you mean that implementing and then re-authorizing the Patriot Act isn’t enough?
What the hell, let’s socialize the entertainment industry too.
Now that they’ve gotten banking & housing, what’s another federal program?
@ ron
Do you and your fellow americans even know what the word “socialist” means!!!???!?!?! Obama a socialist?!?!! NOT!
Confusing, so it was YOU who voted the current president into office! We appreciate your confessing your past transgression, but we’ll have to ask you to check with the rest of us before making your final decision for this year.
Wasn’t it Bin Biden who was litlerally ignored for all his DRM anti-piracy legislation??
Now don’t dare bash the pretend to be in the middle until after the election left liberal democrats(lower case intended).
Bush is taking the heat, yes, but much of the economy’s troubles began in the Clinton years and in ’95, Clinton voted down and said that offshore drilling would take ten years to get up and running, but, like Obama, he had savior appeal, so it’s ok for voters who won’t really do their homework.
@R2, you kinda left off the fact that Obama was the mascot for the 700 billion bailout and AAPL is up 21 smackeroos today. Pretty typical for the Obama voter to leave off half the truth. What would you do if you couldn’t bring up Bush and the economy wasn’t in a dip?
Bush signed off on a bought and paid for bill from the RIAA/MPAA?
Are you surprised?
BTW, Dubya, where in the world is OBL?
You said he could run but could not hide- but he did both.
P.S.
How about those WMDs that you said were in Iraq? Haven’t found them yet?
99 Days to go and we will be a bush free zone.
Open Box Outlet, as much as you guys keep trying to say “It was Clinton”, I gotta call BUllSHit. We had 8 great years under Billy Boy. We’ve had 8 horrible years under Dumbya. He’s managed to fsck up every single thing he’s touched – like a reverse King Midas. But you go ahead and continue to convince yourself that somehow Bush is good, Clinton was bad, and Obama is going to be worse. Yep, the Republican mantra – keep repeating it often enough and you think it will become true. Doesn’t work. sorry.
Tool For The City – you wanna know where Osama bin Laden is? Well, you gotta vote for McCain then. McCain knows how to find Bin Laden – he said so last week.
@Open Box Outlet
> Obama was the mascot for the 700 billion bailout
McCain and Obama both offered cautious support for the bailout plan.
> AAPL is up 21 smackeroos today
It’s up 6 points. Opened at 104.55, closed at 110.53.
And your point is..?
I want to be the Czar of anything or everything or something, just make me a damn Czar Bush, I mean come one, the other ones are really working out for ya! Hey I thought Republican where against big government, hmmm, maybe Bush is really a Democrat, he just hasn’t told himself yet!
And Sarah Palin said: “I think pirates used to drive their boats around in the Bering Strait… I can see that from my house, ya know”.
More government regulation. Bush is a RINO.
@ronandhisfellowamericanidiots!
People like Ron pop off about “socialism” because it’s what the talking heads like Limbaugh and Hannity tell them to be afraid of. They don’t know what it is, or what it means, but since Rush says it’s scary then everyone had better be afraid of it. Republicans aren’t content unless they’re afrraid of something and have a boogeyman to keep them awake at nights.
The funny part is, guys like Ron will rant about Obama’s “socialism”, but then completely gloss over the fact that Republicans conceived of the biggest wealth re-distribution scam in history. But since rich people are getting our tax money, it must be okay. Hate to tell ya, Ron– the Repubs are as socialist as the Dems are, if not moreso.
Democrat = Socialists wanting taxpayer money for poor people
Repub = Socialists wanting taxpayer money for rich people
Both sides are socialist. At least the Dems have the decency to not lie about what they are.
“Both sides are socialist. At least the Dems have the decency to not lie about what they are.”
Gives me lots of hope for the future of this country and my children.
Maybe it’s time to pack and move to Norway…
We had 8 great years under Billy Boy.
Please name ONE THING Bubba accomplished that was good for the country. NAFA doesn’t count.
Bubba was just one lucky SOB. While he fscked Monica and Hillary tangled her legal woes, the country was left to itself and didn’t do too bad.
Those who remember the “great years” should also remember the first WTC bombing, Somalia, Oklahoma City, Waco, the US embassy bombings in Africa, the USS Cole, and eight years of nose-thumbing from Saddam.
Bush inherited a mess that’d been brewing since at least 1979.
Anyone would’ve had a tough time with the cards Bush was dealt.
Although this latest RIAA law is different from Bush’s other troubles.
Two thumbs down for not vetoing it.
“ron
And to think I voted for this twat! “
ya know ron, nobody ever claimed you were bright……
Jay-Z: “For Pete’s sake, can’t we intelligently discuss the actual issue and content of the article without the thread deteriorating into political rants and propaganda?”
Clearly not. This is why I’ve mostly stopped reading the comments here on MDN – the few people who can intelligently discuss things are drowned out by all the mule-headed political morons hijacking the comments section of each article to shout past one another.
This country and even the entire world will be feeling the effects of Dubya for many many years.
God help us. We are going to need it.
(is getting some popcorn and an arnold palmer)
this ones going 5 pages easy…
were you really surprised at the outcome?
the presidency is nothing more than the bought and paid butt sniffing, crotch licking lapdog of big business
I still don’t understand why people think it’s okay to steal when it comes to music and software. Do those same people believe it is okay to steal from a store? I can’t think of any good reason to pirate software.
Almost every piece of software has a free trial download available. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. If you want or need it, but it’s too expensive, then don’t buy it, but don’t steal it either.
if i buy a candy bar from a store, they dont tell me how to eat it
if i buy music or movie, they want to able to control where and how i play that music or movie…thats the problem
i buy music i want to be able to play it on any mp3 player AND/OR my computer
i buy a movie, i dont want to be told on what dvd player to play it on or whether of not i can play it my computer or even copy it as a backup
“the presidency is nothing more than the bought and paid butt sniffing, crotch licking lapdog of big business”
And don’t forget the Republisheep who bend over every time big business comes a-knockin’.
“Want some more of my tax money to prop up your failed business? Suurrre! oow! Not so hard. I’m tender back there. Who cares that the bailout has nothing to do with conservative values. We gotta look out for them corporate profits!! Ow. Gentle back there. I’m a Republican. I think I’m conservative but I have no idea what that really means. I believe that means borrow and spend til my eyes bleed. Let’s rack up some more national debt for big oil! Nnngggh! Not so rough. I do whatever rush limbaugh tells me and I love having Wall Street steal money out of my wallet. It is so naughty and HOT!! Rush did me and my whole family last night. Nnnggh!!!!! Oh, I LOVE these Republican values! Larry Craig! Mark Foley! Oh YES!!! With Republican values, I get screwed every day!!! Oh yeah!!!!”
you got off topic! this thread is about politics bashing. if you want to talk computers, go somewhere else. GeeZ! What do you think this is, a mac site?
P.S. dems are morons.
republicans are crooks.
LOL. I crack myself up. I am smarter than anyone here.
it doesnt matter whose in office republican or democrat, they aree both sides pf the same coin. its the office of the president as well as congress/senate that has kissed ass and whored itself out
who was the last president that said fu** big business and lets give the little guy the advantages, and lived?
You’re right. Obama is a communist and a terrorist supporter.
a quick question, think fast!!
which president has ties to the oil industry?
tick
tick
tick
times up
“completely gloss over the fact that Republicans conceived of the biggest wealth re-distribution scam in history”
Uhhh, did you really mean to write that?
Or did you think you were in a private chat room with teenagers?
shen, do you sway.
what’s the difference between Shen and a bag of shit? The bag.
I’d just like to jump in here and say:
“Death To America.”
Discuss.
Yes, C1.
Dirka, Dirka….
I love getting that ‘last-on-page-one’ spot. That’s the one everybody has to look at over and over.
TT! Geetings! Yes, that’s a classic! My IEN’s* explode with delight!
But then whenever I get tempted by the music of other cultures, I remember my patriotism and listen to… that magical song… over and over again.
GOD I love this country.
Do we have a pool on when the first Presidential N-bomb/C-bomb is dropped? I think we’re just about there.
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And don’t forget everyone…
ChrissyOne = Terrorist.
THINK ABOUT IT!
-c
(*improvised explosive nipples)
hmmmmm.. does this tightened anti piracy apply to movies like “The Bush Doctrine” that Sarah Palin saw in a cinema near Time Square? BTW… It is not about foreign policy.
Most presidents in the last portion of their mandate are referred to as Lame Ducks…. in Dubya’s case Duck should be spelled with an “F” and have a silent “D”
There’s is nothing “socialistic” about protecting music, artistic and intellectual products created by private individuals and companies from thieves. It’s the justifiable and moral thing to do.
When I think McCain and music, I think of this
‘N’ or ‘C’? as if there was any doubt….
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=35605
Gee willakers, go figger, eh?
WOW™. He should hook up with this other old white guy and tour Europe!
Lord knows he’ll have plenty of time on his hands in a few weeks. 😀
I mean wow… it hurts to watch… (almost;)
LET THE EEEEEEEAGLE SOOOOOOOOAR!!!!!
-c
(p.s. – I *heart* guns + abortions)
Let’s make it a trio!
http://www.hatchmusic.com/songs.html
Brilliant!
Breaking News:
Levi Johnson Forced to Marry.
NO! Tell me not that this precious union isn’t one of love!
Okay, there are two outcomes of this one:
1. Levi behaves like one would expect a brainless jock with shit for brains to behave – he dumps her ass 3 days after her mom loses the election (he only waits that long because he’s hung over for 2.5 days), or…
2. Levi marries Bristol and the next time we hear about him it will be when the police find a bloody hockey stick and an arm in his trunk. Everyone will be super surprised.
GOOOOOOD BLESSSS AAAAAMERRRICAAAAAAAAAAA…
2. Levi
“And to think I voted for this twat!
” won’t vote for a socialist – ever. Bye-bye O-bummer”
It’s Ron who voted in that psychopath! Burn the witch! Burn the witch!
^ ? sorry… I blame the terrorists…
ok…. note to starbucks, no more quadruple shots for C1 after 5pm.
There’s is nothing “socialistic” about protecting music, artistic and intellectual products created by private individuals and companies from thieves.
When the executive branch of the government gets involved, via an appointed “czar” who reports directly (and I assume only) to the Commander in Chief, it’s socialism.
Why is (yet another) new layer of government necessary to accomplish this?
And why does it have to be done at the Executive level?
Way too many unanswered questions. 🙁
I’d just like to jump in here and say:
“Death To America.”
Discuss.
ALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA!!!!!!……
@ habeeb
Now you’re speaking my language!
Thanks, douche.
Please be upstanding/for the Mayor of Simpleton…
@Hemorrhoid Rage:
They’re all socialists: Both Repubs and Dems want to control the US population through federal programs which take tax money from the people and use it in ways which don’t really benefit anyone, but which keep them in power.
Politics is not about helping the rich or the poor, but about keeping the politicians in control and slowly stripping freedom from the people. There’s really not much difference between the parties.
I got a girlfriend/that’s better than that…
Steve Jack has to be ghost-writing in here somewhere….
ChrissyOne, great to know you’re still out there ‘gunning’ for the election. Our election is tomorrow. Who knew?
Anybody have any word on MacProdigalSon? Hope he’s is doing OK.
President Barack HUSSEIN Obama. Get used to it, wingnuts.
Bwahahahahaaa!!!
And you dont remember at all
As we get older and stop making sense
You wont find her waiting long
Stop making sense, stop making sense…stop making sense, making sense
@ChrissyOne
How can you blame the terrorists. They only became as powerful as they are through funding from the West. OBL was really useful to the West when he fought in the Afghanistan war against the Russians. Now he’s useful by keeping open the excuse to use the Patriot Act every five minutes. Was the home deployment of the 3rd Infantry 1st Battalion to stop protesters in the Credit Crisis, Evict homeowners on the banks behalf when local Sherifs refuse, or, to stop the Spaceship due to show later today?
George Bush did not write this bill. If he’d vetoed the bill it likely would have found itself attached to another piece of legislation. Congress wrote and passed this bill. Rant about your Congressmen and not the knucklehead in the White House just because he’s in the headline.
@TexasAg03:
“I still don’t understand why people think it’s okay to steal when it comes to music and software. Do those same people believe it is okay to steal from a store?”
The basic reason it is different is because copyrighted materials are not a concrete product per se, but an intangible (Intellectual Property). It is the IP content which is what transforms a book into something that is worth more than blank pieces of paper.
IP laws exist so as to provide a reward to innovation and risk-taking, by granting a legal monopoly for a _reasonable_ period of time, which is to be used by the IP creator to generate revenue from his IP (his reward).
The problem that Western Society (USA, Europe, others) has created for themselves is that the period of legal protection for IP is no longer “reasonable”. For copyrights, its now roughly (and often more than) 100 years (IIRC it was originally 14 years with an option for 14 more).
The problem that this has caused has gotten compounded with technology: the period of protection was originally based on the high cost of printing, etc, but as technology has progressed, these distribution costs have gone down. Consequently, the current Copyright laws are essentially legalized piracy.
The public has recognized this and has chosen to “Robin Hood” the system, to functionally restore Justice, because the temporary monopoly afforded IP holders has functionally become permanent, which permits them to do what monopolies do: charge higher rates higher than true market value.
The problem is how to formally change the system to restore balance. The problem is that the politicians are beholden to the big corporate lobbyists, so we’re never going to see copyright laws reverted back to ~28 years without a literal overthrow of the Government. For ‘W’ to sign stiffer penalties simply illustrates that he’s an industry lapdog.
My recommendation for how to ‘fix’ the problem would be to break up copyright into a couple of different areas (mediums) and to tier the anti-piracy laws to apportion them to the age and market value revenue curve of the product. For example, a song when it is first released gets 100% of the penalty, but after its 5 years old, the penalty is only 33% and dropping. For 10-100 years, the penalties would essentially be 2%, 1%, zero. Let the IP holders then ask for a shorter IP period because it costs them too much to defend their looooong protection period (if they don’t protect, they lose the rights).
FYI, consider the song “Happy Birthday To You”: it was registered for copyright in 1935, but because of subsequent changes in the law, its U.S. copyright won’t expire until 2030. As such, when you sing ‘Happy Birthday’ to a friend in a restaurant, you technically owe its current owner a Royalty Payment. How many times have you been in violation without even knowing it?
-hh
Intellectual Property Czar sounds soooo wimpy.
@Jimbo von Winskinheimer
If you want to find Osama bin laden.. go back in time when clinton was basically handed osama and then let him go.
ChrissyOne is a horrible person in every way!
The Little Red Hen called all of her Democrat neighbors together and said, ‘If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?’
‘Not I,’ said the cow.
‘Not I,’ said the duck.
‘Not I,’ said the pig.
‘Not I,’ said the goose.
‘Then I will do it by myself,’ said the little red hen, and so she did. The wheat grew very tall and ripened into golden grain.
‘Who will help me reap my wheat?’ asked the little red hen.
‘Not I,’ said the duck..
‘Out of my classification,’ said the pig.
‘I’d lose my seniority,’ said the cow.
‘I’d lose my unemployment compensation,’ said the goose.
‘Then I will do it by myself,’ s aid the little red hen, and so she did.
At last it came time to bake the bread.
Who will help me bake the bread?’ asked the little red hen.
‘That would be overtime for me,’ said the cow.
‘I’d lose my welfare benefits,’ said the duck.
‘I’m a dropout and never learned how,’ said the pig.
‘If I’m to be the only helper, that’s discrimination,’ said the goose.
‘Then I will do it by myself,’ said the little red hen.
She baked five loaves and held them up for all of her neighbors to see. They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, ‘No, I shall eat all five loaves.’
‘Excess profits!’ cried the cow. (Nancy Pelosi)
‘Capitalist leech!’ screamed the duck. (Barbara Boxer)
‘I demand equal rights!’ yelled the goose. (Jesse Jackson)
The pig just grunted in disdain. (Ted Kennedy)
And they all painted ‘Unfair!’ picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.
Then the farmer (Obama) came. He said to the little red hen, ‘You must not be so greedy.’
‘But I earned the bread,’ said the little red hen.
‘Exactly,’ said Barack the farmer. ‘That is what makes our free enterprise system so wonderful. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with those who are lazy and idle.’
And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, ‘I am grateful, for now I truly understand.’
But her neighbors became quite disappointed in her. She never again baked bread because she joined the ‘party’ and got her bread free. And all the Democrats smiled. ‘Fairness’ had been established.
Individual initiative had died, but nobody noticed; perhaps no one cared…so long as there was free bread that ‘the rich’ were paying for.
EPILOGUE
Bill Clinton is getting $12 million for his memoirs.
Hillary got $8 million for hers.
That’s $20 million for the memories from two people, who for eight years, repeatedly testified, under oath, that they couldn’t remember anything.
@quikie,
And on that note, when is this, or any other president, going to sign a law that stops pirating my hard earned dollars at the gas pump. Where I live gas prices just plummeted to under $3.00/gal. – So what’s my problem you say? It makes me really really worried about what gas prices will go back to once we get a new president.
Note to all would be presidents: Stop conspiring against the American people! Get control of petroleum prices once and for all, or get us off of it all together! Now! Not 50 years from now, not 25 years from now, not 10, not 5… Now!
“Dammit Jim, I’m an OPEC minister not a president.”
www.
youtube.com/watch?v=bUNEip42xsM&feature=related
Levi was not forced to Marry. Look it up on Snopes. He actually has been complaining on news at this bogus, liberal, commie, story planted to try to make him and his future mother in law look bad. Liberals are by far the most intollerant party ever.
Hi C1, you gun hating, abortion loving man pleaser. Last year when I offered marriage I really wasn’t available, but my gun lovin, tobacco chewin, hairy-armpitted wife finally left, so now I’m really available. Yee Haw!
Your name has just been added to the no-fly list, and if you leave the U.S. for a trip to anywhere by car or ship, the only Stars and Stripes you’ll see upon your return will be through barred windows at Gitmo.
Practise holding your breath while holding live, bare electric wire between your teeth. Waterboarding and electric shock, to keep America free, are certainties.
www.
youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI
McCain likes to illustrate his moral fiber by referring to his five years as a prisoner-of-war in Vietnam. And to demonstrate his commitment to family values, the 71-year-old former US Navy pilot pays warm tribute to his beautiful blonde wife, Cindy, with whom he has four children. But there is another Mrs. McCain who casts a ghostly shadow over the Senator’s presidential campaign. She is seldom seen and rarely written about, despite being mother to McCain’s three eldest children.
She was the woman McCain dreamed of during his long incarceration and torture in Vietnam’s infamous ‘Hanoi Hilton’ prison and the woman who faithfully stayed at home looking after the children and waiting anxiously for news. But when McCain returned to America in 1973 to a fanfare of publicity and a handshake from Richard Nixon, he discovered his wife had been disfigured in a terrible car crash three years earlier. Her car had skidded on icy roads into a telegraph pole on Christmas Eve, 1969.
Her pelvis and one arm were shattered by the impact and she suffered massive internal injuries.
When Carol was discharged from hospital after six months of life-saving surgery, the prognosis was bleak. In order to save her legs, surgeons had been forced to cut away huge sections of shattered bone, taking with it her tall, willowy figure. She was confined to a wheelchair and was forced to use a catheter. Today, she stands at just 5′ 4″ in and still walks awkwardly, with a pronounced limp. Her body is held together by screws and metal plates and, at 70, her face is worn by wrinkles that speak of decades of silent suffering.
For nearly 30 years, Carol has maintained a dignified silence about the accident, McCain and their divorce. But last week at the bungalow where she now lives at Virginia Beach, a faded seaside resort 200 miles south of Washington, she told The Mail on Sunday how McCain divorced her in 1980 and married Cindy, 18 years his junior and the heir to an Arizona brewing fortune, just one month later.
“My marriage ended because John McCain didn’t want to be 40, he wanted to be 25. You know that happens … it just does.”
In 1979 — while still married to Carol — he met Cindy at a cocktail party in Hawaii. Over the next six months he pursued her, flying around the country to see her. Then he began to push to end his marriage. Some of McCain’s acquaintances are less forgiving, however. They portray the politician as a self-centered womanizer who effectively abandoned his crippled wife to ‘play the field’. They accuse him of finally settling on Cindy, a former rodeo beauty queen, for financial reasons.
Ted Sampley, who fought with US Special Forces in Vietnam and is now a leading campaigner for veterans’ rights, said: “I have been following John McCain’s career for nearly 20 years. I know him personally. There is something wrong with this guy and let me tell you what it is — deceit.”
“When he came home and saw that Carol was not the beauty he left behind, he started running around on her almost right away. Everybody around him knew it. Eventually he met Cindy and she was young and beautiful and very wealthy. At that point McCain just dumped Carol for something he thought was better.”
“McCain is the classic opportunist. He’s always reaching for attention and glory,” he said. “After he came home, Carol walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona. And the rest is history.”
Ross Perot, a billionaire Texas businessman, and a former presidential candidate, who paid her medical bills all those years ago, now believes that both Carol McCain and the American people have been taken in by a man who is unusually slick and cruel — even by the standards of modern politics.
THE JOB – URINE TEST (I sure would like to know who wrote this one! They deserve a HUGE pat on the back!)
I HAVE TO PASS A URINE TEST FOR MY JOB…SO I AGREE 100%. Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don’t have to pass a urine test. Shouldn’t one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them? Understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their ASS, doing drugs, while I work…Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check? Pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don’t. Hope you all will pass it along, though…Something has to change in this country — and soon
Some info on how this bill was brought up
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h4279/show
That’s right, lefties, it was a Democrat bill.
Also, righties, it was co-sponsored by an even number of Republicans.
this is the type of bill all lame ducks sign because of a veto override.
But don’t let that little bit of info stop y’all from bashing the President….
“That’s right, lefties, it was a Democrat bill.
Also, righties, it was co-sponsored by an even number of Republicans.”
But what if you’re ambilecherous from both sides of the aisle?
Obama quote to a plumber making $250,000.00 (news flash, not a lot of money, decent but by no means rich) – “Spread the wealth around”?????? WTF????? Liberals are commies! Not my effing money. I’m not rich but I work hard and make a decent living and don’t need these commies taking my money.
Nick
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Then you are too f’ing busy to care….literally!
Wow. Cindy McCain must LOVE waking up to THAT everyday.
What a turn- on!
Truly disgusting!
But seriously…
“To show off his strong family genes, McCain often appears with his 95-year old mother, Roberta. She is lively and spry. However, genes come from both sides of the family. McCain’s father, John S. McCain Jr., died at age 70 while his grandfather, John S. McCain Sr., died at age 61.
Actuarial tables inform us that a man aged 72 has about a 15 percent chance of not surviving four years and about a 32 percent chance (about 1 in 3) of not surviving eight years (Social Security Administration 2004 actuarial tables). These statistics do not take into account the fact that John McCain has battled melanoma, a deadly form of skin cancer, since 1993, when he had a melanoma removed from his arm. In 2000, two more melanomas were removed plus a lymph node. In 2002, a lesion removed from his nose was identified as a non-malignant form of melanoma.
A recent study concluded that “those with skin cancer ran twice the risk of developing other forms of cancer” (Medical University of South Carolina at Charleston). This should give us pause when we note that, if John McCain is elected president, just a heart-beat away from the presidency is Sarah Palin….”
Mmmm… now for my breakfast.. a steaming plate of baby seals! Somebody pass the whale oil!
Now the liberals that run nursing homes in Ohio are illegally filling in Obama on all early voting cards for people that they think wouldn’t know any better. Even when the people wanted to vote for McCain. Liberals are sick, sick, sick. Communism is very, very, bad and that’s where liberals want to take this country. Pathetic.
It gets even better. When the republican monitor caught the democrat monitor illegally filling in Obama on the woman’s ballot that wanted to vote for McCain the democrat monitor physically attacked the republican and was arrested. Liberals really are criminals.
And always right is always wrong. But I state the obvious.
It makes you wonder how many of these votes were never caught. ACORN and the Obama brown shirts are out in full force. Buy it or steal it, anything to win an election. Welcome to Chicago politics. Change you can believe it?
You people are still talking about ACORN.
Jesus you’re dumb! I watch Fox news a lot, and I can’t even MAKE myself PRETEND to be that dumb. Oh… it hurts.
If you’ll excuse me, I have some vote registration fraud to catch up on.
Peace.
(or if you’re a GOP… War!)
-c
Wow! The RNC shills are terrified this morning ! ! !
(It’s pretty obvious that the same two people keep reposting the same pathetic lies and half-truths.)
They reek of desperation, fear and hatred. Better to divide and cower in fear than face the truth.
It must be the looming defeat that has them running around like headless hens.
“You’re right. Obama is a communist and a terrorist supporter.”
Yeah most people already now that, but many will vote for him anyways
Anin – coming from a liberal democrat, give me a break. You liberals are all about division.
ChrissyOne – Acorn is a huge problem and they should be tried for treason. It is no laughing matter to tamper with voting the way that group does. Fox News is the only network that will broadcast the other side of the story. You can also find the other side on the internet. No chance on the rest of the of the liberal crook media.
Dead Muslim – Most people are so pathetically stupid and lazy that they don’t bother to check both sides of the issues. They believe what they are spoon fed by the liberal media.
“You liberals are all about division.”
And you must be about stereotypes, blanket generalizations and fear based hatred. Nice. Now run along. Adults are talking.
Don’t worry Ohio you are not the only state where Obama’s friends at Acorn are being investigated for voter fraud. After all Obama did teach at Acorn and was an adviser and an attorney for them to make banks give out loans to people who could not afford them and could never repay the bank. Thus we had the financial crisis that we have. Let’s not forget democrats Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd who had larger and leading part in the financial crisis. Now we are allowing the same people to attempt to fix the problem. Where is the investigation of Frank and Dodd and all of the dems who would not allow an investigation of possible failure of fannie mae and freddie mac long before the bank failures??? Does having the fox guard the hen house come to mind??
“a steaming plate of baby seals!”
Hey, don’t forget Sarah’s single dish specialty!
….Two squirrels, one cup…..
No Anin you are wrong again. Take a look at this YouTube video for proof.
www.
youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI
Feb. 20, 2006, Senator John McCain tells immigration rights activists at an ACORN rally in Miami that they “are what makes America special.”
source: http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/a_lifetime_ago_sen_john.php
http://www.bpmdeejays.com/upload/hs_sal_in_Harlem_100108.mp3
That was before everyone proved all the fraud that was going on with Acorn.
Uh oh.
Better get used to it, nina.
Say it.
“PRESIDENT OBAMA”
In Minnesota, the new Quinnipiac poll has Obama up 11 points over McCain, 51-40 percent. Incorporating other recent surveys from the state, a CNN poll of polls in Minnesota shows Barack Obama’s lead over the Arizona senator there is now about 9 points.
It’s a similar picture in Wisconsin, where the Quinnipiac poll has Obama up 17 points, and where a new CNN poll of polls there shows the Illinois senator with an 11 point lead. That’s nearly double the Democratic nominee’s lead just two-and-a-half weeks ago.
In Michigan, the state the McCain campaign officially pulled out of earlier this week, the latest Quinnipiac poll shows Obama with a 16 point lead. Since McCain has pulled nearly all his staff from the state and essentially conceded its 17 electoral votes to Obama, there have not been enough recent polling there for a CNN poll of polls.
In what could be particularly bad news for McCain, the new Quinnipiac survey also shows the Arizona senator down 9 points in Colorado — a steep decline from polls taken earlier this week that suggested the race was tied there. With McCain’s path to the nomination continuing to narrow, Colorado may just be a must-win state for the Arizona senator’s White House chances to stay alive.
“Obama’s lead in Colorado — a state the Democrats have won only twice since 1952 — should be particularly worrisome for McCain,” Silverleib said. “Obama can win the White House without Colorado’s nine electoral votes; McCain almost certainly cannot.”
There are nuts on both sides. No doubt. But you missed the point about <u>your</u> generalizations because you are blinded by rage, racism and hatred. Now seriously, run along. You’re just embarrassing yourself.
This election, has involved the most devious of voter fraud attempts, ever encounter, except during Mayor Daley’s fraud during his terms in Chicago in the 60’s. Doesn’t it make you wonder, why, the same dirty tricks used in Chicago politics are now on the national scene? Who in this Presidential race, knows more about the dirty tricks of Chicago politics, other than the alias Hussein Obama! Who trained ACORN? The alias Hussein Obama! I have petitioned the courts to mandate, that the entire state of Ohio’s recent registrations be hand verified, and that any received from the agency ACORN and others associated with the alias Hussein Obama, be considered null and void, due to the fraud, exhibited in Ohio, Florida, Missouri, and Nevada, just to name a few states by the organization of which the alias Hussein Obama was a trainer and supervisor of. Everyone needs to read about the Federal Lawsuit in Philadelphia, Berg vs Obama, whereby, Attorney Berg is asking to see the alias Obama’s birth certificate, and this alias Hussein Obama has refused, as it does not exist, due to him being relieved of it during his adoption to his second Muslim father from Indonesia, his real name is, according to the judicial system in Indonesia, and the Islamic Muslim schools he attended, is “Barry Mohamed Soetoro”! When his mother sent him back to Hawaii, his legal name was “Barry Mohamed Soetoro” and was therefore an illegal alien, as he had his citizenship revoked after being legally adopted and acknowledge by his Muslim Indonesia father IAW their laws. In review of the Judicial archives of Hawaii, there is absolute no petition to the courts for a name change. So if you read http://www.ObamaCrimes.com you will learn much more!
“There are nuts on both sides”
Yes, except one side swings a little lower than the other…
“Yes, except one side swings a little lower than the other…”
I remember how all those people at Obama events have been shouting “Kill him!”
Oh, wait…
“I remember how all those people at Obama events have been shouting “Kill him!”
You meant the books and movies, right?
remove all spaces
www.
youtube.com
/watch?v=xyspCRmJv7w&eurl;=
http://www.ObamaCrimes
I hear Obama has personally fouled beaches all over the world with viscous phlegm.
TRAITOR!
Obama is not an US Citizen. He will be proven ineligible to run for president. And that is the least of the things wrong with this guy.
New Flash: Acorn registers Mickey Mouse in Florida. This is true. Oh no ChrissyOne, this is no big deal. You are bad news.
“Obama is not an US Citizen.”
False. You have to give your shill money back to the RNC now.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
Yes… this will help alleviate the mess the world is in now because all that rampant piracy is responsible for all our economic woes.
Read the last paragraph on the Snopes page. Snopes proved nothing. The issue is still active.
Always love the line that last year the Movie/Music Companies “lost” $250 Million because of Pirates.
Sounds like Creative Accounting 101™
Wish the sales I don’t get in my business I could deduct as a “loss” on my taxes.
Not making something does not equal a “loss”
Remove Pirates from formula and answer this Media Companies:
Show math on that $250M to prove it’s not just a guess at what might have been ?
BC
Rush Limbaugh Interviews Governor Sarah Palin:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_101408/content/01125106.guest.html
to my BC bud
“Sounds like Creative Accounting 101™”
yes, everyone is creative in Hollywood!
If the studios can show losses for a movie, it is less they have to pay to investors, including actors who take a stake in the profits.
Larry:
Chew on this awhile while you’re frothing at the mouth.
Is John McCain Constitutionally Eligible to be POTUS?
Well, here is the case for John McCain in brief. The facts are clear, but the law is a bit muddy. John McCain was born from two natural born US citizens on a military base in Panama. He grew up on base after base all over the world in the military empire, switching homes and schools at least 20 times. However, the case for constitutionality simply rests on his birth. The below proof is the most rigorous and detailed that I have come across, and its details can be found here:
The 14th Amendment and matching policy limit citizenship to either natural born or naturalized, but not both.
John McCain was born in 1936 in the Canal Zone to citizen parents.
8 USC 1403(a) declares naturalized citizenship in 1952 on persons born in the Canal Zone to citizen parents.
Therefore, 8 USC 1403(a) applies to John McCain at age 16.
Therefore, John McCain is a naturalized citizen.
By treaty, the Canal Zone was not part of the United States.
Therefore, John McCain was not born in the United States.
Therefore, John McCain is a citizen not born in the United States.
Therefore, John McCain is not a natural born citizen.
Article II of the Constitution states to be President a person must be a natural born citizen.
THEREFORE, John McCain is not eligible to be President of the United States under Article II of the Constitution; he should be decertified and removed from all present and future Presidential ballots; and his past results should be disallowed, including unbinding all of his committed delegates.
..oh, and one more thing
what kind of Mickey mouse rules are y’all using this election season?
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/article852295.ece
“Florida:A Great Vacation For the Mind!”
Hey, Larry’s Boyfriend
Was the Canal Zone a U.S. Territory when he was born?
Would that not settle it?
Are we still in junior high?
TowerTone:
Ask your buddy, Ron Paul!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/37509
(Actually, I don’t care. I just wanted Larry’s head to explode. Sure, it’s puerile like many of our posts but darn funny.)
Randolph hates america, eats frogs and loves The Macarena.
KILL HIM!
Hilarious!
Hey, C1
That’s nothing…
I’ve seen every Democrat since Carter going to churches!!!!
(and I don’t mean fried chicken)
What a crazy, mixed up world we live in……
“I’ve seen every Democrat since Carter going to churches!!!!”
I know. If you wanna be president in this country, you have to drink deeply of Christian Love-Chowder. I HOPE that Obama is a liar and a faker and that he’s not really that religious.
Palin, OTOH, I have no doubts about. Yeah, I think it would be awesome to give an End Times-believing puppet mouth-breather The Button. After all, Jeebus will spare Alaska!
My God can beat up your God!!!
BECAUSE YOUR GOD IS AN IMPOTENT PUSSY!!!
SUCK on THAT, Jesus!!!
-c
“I HOPE that Obama is a liar and a faker”
I believe you will get your wish, over and over again.
“I believe you will get your wish, over and over again.”
Hey, don’t worry, though. I hear the stuff that happens during a presidency is never the fault of the guy who’s in office. I mean, all this shit going on, clearly it’s that Nazi bastard Clintons fault. And all the good times in the 90’s, well of course you know what was all due to the sublime genius of the Regan years. So it really doesn’t matter what Osama.. I MEAN… (jeez, how retardedly ignorant of me) OBAMA does, he can’t change our current mess for at least another term or two.
But there is good news! We’ve got 8 years of visionary Bush policy that’s going to start kicking in any month now! I can’t wait!!!
HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!
IT FUN TO HATE A QUEER AGAIN!
WE’LL SELL THE SHEEP ON FEAR AGAIN!
HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!!!
-c
They portray the politician as a self-centered womanizer who effectively abandoned his crippled wife to ‘play the field’.
But I thought wife-abandonment and field-playing were no big deal, “hell yeah!” OK, not relevant to politics, etc. etc. The same holds for blatantly lying about it.
Or do these only apply when done in the Oval Office?
@ @The Real John McCain
Here’s the difference – Democrats don’t pretend to be more moral than everyone else.
Ask Larry Craig what I’m talking about.
George Bush did not write this bill. If he’d vetoed the bill it likely would have found itself attached to another piece of legislation. Congress wrote and passed this bill. Rant about your Congressmen and not the knucklehead in the White House just because he’s in the headline.
But Bush still SIGNED it.
He could’ve easily vetoed the thing, sending both the bill and a big f-you back to Congress.
But “W is for WIMP” caved and took the easy out.
I’d rather let Congress override the veto & carry the blame, than have my signature on such crap.
Chrissy needs to get back on her meds right away. She’s going to hurt someone while she’s that far from reality. She lives on the fringes of society anyway. Freak show. Nothing cute or funny about you you man-woman. You libs totally forgot that every bit of bad economic news has been completely brought about by the democrat congress. Prior to them being brought in things were actually going very well. What happened to all of the complaining about Iraq? Not a peep for a while. You liberal defeatists did everything you could to lose there. Lucky for the US you failed. It is beyond reason how crazy you peeps are. If you somehow get your wish you will regret it.
When are you ppl gonna git this bitch moving? Come on, not even 3 full pages yet?
You disgust me.
Frank = Donut Puncher
Are you kidding me ChrisyOn?????. The democrats own the term politically correct however they rarely practice what they preach.
ChrissyOne is either a man posing as a woman or a rug muncher even if she/he doesn’t know it.
War will only be ok for liberals when a liberal starts a war which will and has happened.
That Howard Stern post was priceless. Typical democrat. Clueless!
Hi Carl. So I see you’re new.
I am transsexual, and a lesbian.
Anything else?
“War will only be ok for liberals when a liberal starts a war which will and has happened.”
Truer words were never attempted to be properly spoken.
Marie, Wendall, Frank, Larry, Carl, Kimmy, Hen – that’s some multiple personality disorder for one person.
Let’s just call you Afib.
“She lives on the fringes of society anyway.”
The sex is better out here.
McCain sucking up to Acorn was prior to all these crimes being brought to everyone’s attention. Heads should roll at Acorn.
Yeah Crissy if that’s what your definition of beastiality is.
“Heads should roll at Acorn.”
Wouldn’t nuts make more sense? I’m just saying.
ChrissyOne = Gross
Hey, just think, C1
Since Bush is hated by the left twice as much as any man since Nixon, they will be able to use movies and books even MORE to warp any good that he did into ‘the new truth’ so that this young century will have a
Hoover, who was completely blamed for the Depression, a
McCarthy, who was blamed by Hollywood for things the House did, and a
Nixon, who added to Johnson’s ‘Great Society’, stopped his war, added OSHA, NOAA, and the EPA, detente with the Soviets and trade with China, affirmative action and called for a ‘comprehensive health insurance act’ (oh, my noGod!)
ALL ROLLED INTO ONE!!! Yes, the far left can vilify, hate, lie and defame ONE person for at least twelve years instead of having to bother with distorted and rewritten history to find joy in hating someone.
For this, the left should thank the great Mother Earth and their personal Kabala trainer in giving them a channel to ‘vent’ against all that is ‘unfair and unjust, because I don’t want to face reality’.
Yes, as the new Messiah parts with the ways of wisdom and ushers in a new age of ‘Hope the Rich Know to Hide their Assets Overseas’ followed by a beautiful decade of ‘Now the Middle Class Has to Pay For It’, we can look forward to a time in the not to distant future, when all is better for the lower class, and the middle class decides to join them, for now their income is less than those that the Constitution now says the State owes the poor. Oh, my Golden Years await me!!!!!
@ Sid
No, try reading more, honey. Bestiality is the act of a human fucking your wife.
Sid is famous on YouPorn.
Obama just lost the few Jewish people who were still thinking of voting for him.
I knew they couldn’t keep the muzzle on Jackson forever.
Now we just need to hear from Al Sharpton and Michelle Obama and we can call it a day!
The truth hurts Chrissy-tranny, animal lover, doesn’t it.
“Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr. is not an adviser to the Obama campaign and is therefore in no position to interpret or share Barack Obama’s views on Israel and foreign policy,” Obama national security spokeswoman Wendy Morigi said in a statement. “As he has made clear throughout his career and throughout this campaign, Barack Obama has a fundamental commitment to a strong U.S.-Israel relationship … As president, he will ensure that Israel can defend itself from every threat it faces, stand with Israel in its quest for a secure peace with its neighbors, and use all elements of American power to end Iran’s illicit nuclear program.”
STFU. Idiot.
I’m seriously hurting.
{gasp!}
Sounds like Jesse is jealous of Obama. That’s almost as pathetic as the idiots that believe in the lies of McSame / aPallin.
Okay… Come on now, Olberman’s good tonight. Let’s just both agree to be cocksuckers and call it even.
Wow– just when I feel there is no hope for humanity, I come on this forum and pretty much get proven right. In just three pages of this forum topic, I have seen more bigotry, hate speech, and ill will than one could possibly stomach (and from BOTH the right and the left. ALL of you are guilty). Is this how America chooses to present itself to the world? As bickering, hate-filled, frothing rabid children? Disgusting…. absolutely disgusting. You people don’t deserve this country.
Right. The 26 year old (likelihood of an Obama supporter: Very High) initiated the violence (likelihood of Obama supporter: Extremely High) and the Mainstream Media won’t report affiliation of the attacker (likelihood of Obama supporter: Confirmed) These ObamaThugs are disgusting, with their vile hate speech and physical intimidation, led by their Cowardly Leader Himself: hiring Goon Squads in Missouri to intimidate people who disagree, sending the Secret Service after a Jessica Hughes becasue she hung up on an ObamaSycophantCaller, writing to the Dept of Justice to shut down TV stations that run ads he doesn’t like, trying to shut down a radio station WGN during their interview with Stanley Kurtz who has researched BO extensively… Just wait, people, this very very scary guy wants to be The Most Powerful Man In America. be afraid. be very, very afraid.
Olberman is SCUM!!!!!!!!!
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/…
See if you remain unchanged after reading this!
“Disgusting…. absolutely disgusting. You people don’t deserve this country.”
KILL ‘EM!
@ Dougie
You were right, I climaxed 17 times!
Did anyone see the video of the pro McCain rally in NYC on the Drudge report? I’ve never seen so may middle fingers and filthy hatefull taunting.
Wow! The hatespeech has been spewing from the Obama camp since Day 1. On top of that, he is shutting down free speech at every turn. He told his minions to go out and “get in people’s face”! He is inciting racist behavior – and it’s all part of the plan! If he can rile people up and start violence (which his people are much more experiened with) he can claim he lost due to racism – forget all of his radical socialist goverment policies and his crazy anti-American friends. How dare you claim that the ugliness is coming from the McCain camp; he won’t even bring up that psycho Rev Wright! He won’t talk about BO’s Rashidi PLO link, or his trip to Kenya on behalf of Raila Odinga – violating US Law by agitating against sitting admin and campaigning for another terrorist! Shame on you for buying the MSM “reality show” that they are forcing on you, by editting, splicing, rewording the truth to push their anti McCain agenda. In a simialr incident to above, 73 year old Democratnic Edith Walker just jumped on the back of a Republican casting his ballot and beat on him repeatedly! Stop the OBAMATHUGS NOW!!! This is America and we are better than this!
Mr. Obama belonged to a church for 20 years where violence and hatred was preached, and what did he do—he did nothing.
Mr. Obama’s first job was working with a professed terrorist who preacehd hatred, and what did he do…nothing.
This guy is scary.
“…”get in people’s face”!…”
Thanks for taking me back the the early 80’s, honey. Whew! Those shoulder pads got ta stinkin’.
I am neither a republican or democrat, but I am an American. I still believe in the Constitution, and I believe we are one nation under god. I also believe that we do not want a dictator in the white house. Anyone who promotes violence like Obama and his kroonies do, is not someone we want to run our great country. We want someone who believes in America, and the Americans no matter what race or religion.
“How dare you claim that the ugliness is coming from the McCain camp”
Have you seen that woman’s suits?
“I am neither a republican or democrat, but I am an American.”
Dun, dun dah… dah… Dahh… DAAAHHHHHHHH..!!!!
I am neither a dem or a gop, but I’m still a jingoistic prick!
LOVE ME!!!
Actually socialism DOES work…for the ruling class. Everyone else gets rations and the incentive to work vanishes. Products and services become mediocre to shoddy. But at least we won’t have to compete anymore. Yay! What a future we could have!
This is clearly liberal behavior. If you can’t make your point intelligently use your fists. The Soviets took this to a fine art during their revolution. I guess this makes me an angry racist. Oh, well.
Did you hear Obama lost one of his biggest supporters today? Richard Cooey was put to death today in Ohio. I hope those Acorn workers that registerd him to vote still get paid> LOL!!
This is only the beginning.
Unfortunately if Obama is not elected and it is a close election there will be riots worst then the 80’s in L.A. A lot of people will be killed in the streets.
@ smvero
KILL ‘EM!!!!
In conclusion,
Guns, whores, bestiality, heros, pie, 9-11.
-c
make that an ‘Apple’ pie……
Hey Tower Tone
(sheez, it’s getting late, and I just did get back over here)
On your “creative voter registration” link
Remember what what’s his name said in movie Gangs of New York
(too late to look up the exact quote, so creative paraphrase)
“I don’t CARE who they register for, or WHO they vote for …
“Just make sure OUR people count the Ballots”
BC
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10152008/news/politics/obama_fires_a_robin_hood_warning_shot_133685.htm
Obama is out of his freaking mind!
McCain Lies Counter:
http://www.mccainpedia.org/index.php/Count_the_Lies
“McCain: Most Dangerous Man in America”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-scher/mccain-most-dangerous-ma_b_11715.html
McCain is out of his freaking mind!
ACORN showed its colors again in 1991, by taking over the House Banking Committee room for two days to protest efforts to scale back the CRA. Obama represented ACORN in the Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 1994 suit against redlining. Most significant of all, ACORN was the driving force behind a 1995 regulatory revision pushed through by the Clinton Administration that greatly expanded the CRA and laid the groundwork for the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac borne financial crisis we now confront. Barack Obama was the attorney representing ACORN in this effort. With this new authority, ACORN used its subsidiary, ACORN Housing, to promote subprime loans more aggressively.
Biden routes campaign cash to family, their firms
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/15/biden-routes-campaign-cash-to-family-their-firms/
WASHINGTON (AP) — “Vice President Dick Cheney experienced an abnormal heart beat on Wednesday morning and will see doctors to “restore his normal rhythm” — the second time in less than a year that he will have the procedure.”
If he dies, Bush will finally get to be President for the last couple of months of his term. Maybe someone should make sure Karl Rove is on standby just in case.
“Ignorant Republicans embarrass McCain, their party”
http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2392
“John McCain and ACORN”
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/7562/
“Sarah Palin’s reaction to the Legislature’s Troopergate report is an embarrassment to Alaskans and the nation.”
(The Anchorage Daily News http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/555236.html)
McCain was sucking up to Acorn 2 years before all of their illegal activities have been uncovered. Screw you RT.
You libs are sick wallowing in Chenny’s health scare. What a wonderful group of sickos you people are.
Alex:
Boy, did you ever miss the point. Read the article before responding.
“What a wonderful group of sickos you people are.”
What goes around comes around.
That article is BS.
This is it once and for all convincing and credible. I can’t believe Fox News would publish this article.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,433314,00.html
Your argument is compelling. </sarcasm>
But you’re more of a mouth-breathing “Is Not”, “Are Too” kind of girl, right?
Idiot.
The brilliance of Sarah “Caribou Barbie” Palin:
Hey Tanmar
In your sentence “I can’t believe Fox News … etc”
You’d probably do much better leaving out the ” … etc”
I know some of you will really get off w/ this……………..
I was talking to the 8 year-old daughter of a friend of mine, and she said
she wanted to be President some day. Both of her parents, liberal
Democrats, were standing there, so I asked her, “If you were President
what’s the first thing you would do?”
She replied, “I’d give food and houses to all the homeless people.”
“Wow – what a worthy goal,” I told her. “But you don’t have to wait until
you’re President to do that. You can come over to my house and mow the
grass, pull weeds, and rake my yard, and I’ll pay you $50. Then I’ll take you
over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can
give him the $50 to use toward food or a new house.”
She thought that over for a few seconds, cause after all she’s only 8.
And while her Mom glared at me, she looked me straight in the eye and
asked, “Why doesn’t the homeless guy come over and do the work himself, and you
can just pay him the $50?”
And I said, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”
Her folks still aren’t talking to me.
A senile old fart named McCain
Has a flap-jaw mouth to restrain.
What pops in his head
Is immediately said
Whether inane, germain or profane.
Born with a curse was John McCain
For he was born with a tongue profane.
Senators pale and ladies swoon
When this filthy-mouthed old loon
Spews language he cannot restrain.
John McCain is known for being blunt
A 71-year-old righteous, balding runt.
When wife Cindy makes an innocent joke,
Three blood vessels in his neck get broke,
And he snaps, “Hey you silly little c*nt!”
YOU MIGHT BE A REPUBLICAN IF…
You think “proletariat” is a type of cheese.
You’ve named your kids “Deduction one” and “Deduction two”
You’ve tried to argue that poverty could be abolished if people were just allowed to keep more of their minimum wage.
You’ve ever referred to someone as “my (insert racial or ethnic minority here) friend”
You’ve ever tried to prove Jesus was a capitalist and opposed to welfare.
You’re a pro-lifer, but support the death penalty.
You think Huey Newton is a cookie.
The only union you support is the Baseball Players, because heck, they’re richer than you.
You think you might remember laughing once as a kid.
You once broke loose at a party and removed your neck tie.
You call mall rent-a-cops “jack-booted thugs.”
You’ve ever referred to the moral fiber of something.
You’ve ever uttered the phrase, “Why don’t we just bomb the sons of bitches.”
You’ve ever called a secretary or waitress “Tootsie.”
You answer to “The Man.”
You don’t think “The Simpsons” is all that funny, but you watch it because that Flanders fellow makes a lot of sense.
You fax the FBI a list of “Commies in my Neighborhood.”
You don’t let your kids watch Sesame Street because you accuse Bert and Ernie of “sexual deviance.”
You scream “Dit-dit-ditto” while screwing your secretary.
You’ve argued that art has a “moral foundation set in Western values.”
When people say “Marx,” you think “Groucho.”
You’ve ever yelled, “Hey hippie, get a haircut.”
You think Birkenstock was that radical rock concert in 1969.
You argue that you need 300 handguns, in case a bear ever attacks your home.
Vietnam made a lot of sense to you.
You point to Hootie and the Blowfish as evidence of the end of racism in America.
You’ve ever said civil liberties, schmivil schmiberties.
You’ve ever said “Clean air? Looks clean to me.”
You’ve ever called education a luxury.
You look down through a glass ceiling and chuckle.
You wonder if donations to the Pentagon are tax-deductable.
You came of age in the ’60s and don’t remember Bob Dylan.
You own a vehicle with an “Ollie North: American Hero” sticker.
You’re afraid of the liberal media.”
You ever based an argument on the phrase, “Well, tradition dictates….”
You ever told a child that Oscar the Grouch “lives in a trash can because he is lazy and doesn’t want to contribute to society.”
You’ve ever urged someone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, when they don’t even have shoes.
You confuse Lenin with Lennon.
Wow I think Fox is turning into CNN.
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=videolandingpage&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=3150937&referralPlaylistId=9ccf127ad00c53ab8708e18e946bf50e83958340
William Ayres is a close friend and personal confidant of Barack Obama. Ayres financed Obama’s entry into the wonderful world of radical south-Chicago politics. Obama’s Illinois State Senate campai gn was ki cked off at a party at Ayres’ home. Ayres admitted to membership in a radical anti-government group called the Weather Underground, admitted to bombing the Pentagon as part of a protest plot to overthrow the U.S. Government, and admitted to aiding in the bombing of a police station resulting in slain police officers. On 9-11, in direct response to the World Trade Center attacks he told a reporter that he is proud of what he did, and that he ‘should have done more.’
This is just one of the many, many Obama backers who raise questions about Obama and his ugly, radical anti-American associates.
BARACK OBAMA STILL TO THIS DAY SUPPORTS AND DEFENDS AYRES. THE AMERICAN MEDIA IS GIVEN HIM A PASS ON IT! ?THEY ARE TOO BUSY ATTACKING THE PREGNANT 17 YEAR DAUGHTER OF SARAH PALIN. ?OBAMA IS CORRUPT AND HIS RADICAL SOCIALIST PLANS A RE DANGEROUS FOR OUR COUNTRY. PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW THE TRUTH AND DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES.
57 STATES
This is from Rush Limbaugh’s radio show yesterday…..
Hey, folks, you want to tweak the Drive-By Media with me right now?
You are aware, probably, that Barack Obama lost his bearings recently and said
that he was going to campaign in all 57 states.
You heard this? And most everybody chalked it up to, ‘Well, he’s
tired.’
You know, this is a Dan Quayle moment. I mean, Dan Quayle goes out there and
misspells ‘potato,’ and we still hear jokes about it.
Barack Obama says he’s gonna go out and campaign in 57 states! He was just
tired, you know, it’s been such a long campaign, he’s been so many
places, he probably thinks there are 57 states.
Well, I have here a printout from a web site called the International Humanist
and Ethical Union.
And here is how the second paragraph of an article on that website begins.
‘Every year from 1999 to 2005 the organization of the Islamic conference
representing the 57 Islamic states presented a resolution to the United Nations
Commission on human rights called commbating.’
Obama said he’s going to campaign in 57 states, and it turns out that there
are 57 Islamic states.
There are 57 Islamic states!
So did Obama just lose his bearings, or was this a more telling slip?
You already know the answer but for those who don’t:
From snopes.com:
The actual intent behind Senator Obama’s misstatement is easy to discern without the need to invoke an obscure international organization. He was trying to express the thought that in all the time he had spent on the campaign trail so far in 2007-08, he had visited all (48) of the states in the continental U.S. save for one (i.e., “one left to go,” excluding Alaska and Hawaii), but in his weariness he slipped up and started off with “fifty” instead of “forty.” (Note the long pause in the video clip between the words “fifty” and “seven.”)
As for the next obvious question, depending upon the definitional criteria used, there are more or less than 57 Islamic countries/nations/states in the world. If an Islamic state is defined to mean any country in which a majority of the indigenous population is Muslim, then the total number of Islamic states is actually a little lower (about 52). All such numbers are estimates, however, and are subject to additional definitional criteria.
Yeah sure, that explains it. Complete BS. The guy is a liar.
Hey Sonny (to assume you wrote that all by your lonesome?)
I make a motion to place your name in nomination for:
“The MDN Jeff Foxworthy Award of The Year”
Are there any 2nd’s ?
BC
“Yeah sure, that explains it.”
Again with the compelling argument. Your parents must be so proud.
Wow. A lot of Republicrats on this forum. Anyone here who isn’t part of the loonie left or loonie right? I would hope at least one of the 80% of normal America uses Macs.
Fanaticism makes you constipated, folks. Maybe MacDailyNews should start running banner ads for laxatives. You guys have so much sh!t pent up, it’s going to your brains.
An unscripted moment with an Ohio plumber produced a startling confession from Barack Obama Sunday: The Democrat’s “middle-class tax cut” is in fact a scheme to “spread the wealth around.”
Obama dropped the mask long enough to tell the truth to Toledo plumber Joe Wurzelbacher – who had asked the Democratic nominee why he wanted to jack up his taxes just for “fulfilling the American dream.”
“I’m getting ready to buy a company that makes $250,000 to $280,000 a year,” Wurzelbacher had told Obama. “Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?”
“It’s not that I want to punish your success,” Obama replied. “I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success, too . . . When you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”
At last! The truth outs!
Obama’s plan isn’t about sinking hooks into Wall Street CEOs and other fat cats, as he usually says. Fact is, there’s not enough of them to raise the cash necessary to finance his other grand plans.
No, to do that, he’ll have to go after ambitious working-class guys like Wurzelbacher – who’s been a plumber for 15 years and is looking to better himself and his family while just maybe creating a few jobs.
The American Dream?
Wurzelbacher personifies it – but Barack Obama seems determined to tax it to death and be done with it, period.
That’s been the case all along, of course. What’s different is that the Democrat finally said so.
Heretofore, Obama has sought to paint himself as a tax-cutter – claiming he’ll slash taxes for 95 percent of Americans.
As we noted yesterday, that’s a flat-out lie – not least because nearly half of all tax filers pay no income tax at all. So how can he “cut” their taxes if they don’t pay any to begin with?
Answer: tax “credits.”
To wit, in part:
* A $1,000 “make work pay” credit.
* A $4,000 college-tuition credit.
* A $6,000 child-care credit.
* A $1,100 bump in the earned-income tax credit.
These aren’t to be income-tax deductions – which would be worthless to those who pay no income taxes.
These are to be checks from Washington – with the subsidies expected to grow to more than $1 trillion in 10 years.
That’s a massive transfer of wealth.
How does Obama justify it?
“Fairness,” he says.
But that’s an absurdly radical view of what’s “fair.”
Remember, Obama’s tax hikes target folks who already bear the brunt of the burden: The top 20 percent of earners already pay 69 percent of all federal taxes – and 88 percent of income taxes.
(Contrast that with John McCain’s call yesterday for real tax cuts – halving the capital-gains levy, scrapping taxes on unemployment benefits altogether – designed to prime the economic pump.)
Monday, Obama promised a tax policy that would restore “a sense of fairness and balance that will give every American a fair shot at the American dream.”
But just a day before, he told Joe Wurzelbacher the truth: No American dream for you, buddy!
Nor anybody else, it seems.
no you jack ass. we are extremely concerned about the direction this country could wind up going and the liberal, biased, lying media that brainwashes most of the uneducated masses to get their way. all of the cheating, lying, and intimidation coming from obama. the massive tax increases the democrats and obama are trying to sneak in. just go back to your video game snark.
SNARK WINS! ! !
That was the most honest, accurate and insightful post of this entire thread.
Kudos to Snark.
All of the cheating, lying, and intimidation coming from <strike>obama</strike> McSame and Caribou Barbie.
That makes more sense.
Sorry Lenny and Dan (commie brothers). Anyone with a brain can see right through this Obama BS and all of the voting crimes and intimidation going on. This guy is bad and you freaks know it.
I can’t believe how naive and trusting you libs are of the government, especially after this mishandling of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, etc. and the mess it has gotten us in! And that is because they were pressured by these so called “community organizing” groups like Acorn, to give home loans to people who could not afford them, in the name of “spreading the wealth” around and being “fair”! And secondly, what makes you trust that any of the new taxes that you will pay will even get to those less fortunate to do them any good? Wake up! Here in California, I think that they raise our taxes almost yearly in the name of helping the public schools, but the public schools don’t see any of it, because the government hires more burocrates (spelling?) to “distribute” it the pockets of all of them, between the government and the schools, are lined with these new taxes and none of it ever gets to the schools! It is our duty, as fellow Americans, to help out those around us in need, by donating our time and/or money to organizations that we trust that are out there helping those in need, and if more of us would do that, it would make a big difference. And we would have control of where our money goes and eliminate the middlemen, who really are so far removed from the individuals who actually need the help anyway. It is not the governments job to take care of everyone. And as we give it more and more power to do that, eventually we will have no power at all, and we will wake up in a totally Socialist Society, and wonder what happened. Look at Cuba? The Government has ALL of the power, all of the money, and they dole it out to their citizens, but only barely enough to live, and not any more, least the citizens will begin to get some control over their own lives, and rebel. Think this thru carefully, because this is where Obama’s mindset is, and this is where he will take America. What ever happened to “Ask not what your
If those people who want to help the needy would go out and do so, we wouldn’t need the government to force people to cough up some money to help the poor.
Aren’t we fortunate to have people like Obama who will spend our money for us! We certainly aren’t smart enough to decide how to spend our hard earned money.
TIM MAHONEY FOR PRESIDENT….HE REPRESENTS TRUE DEMOCRAT VALUES
Obama, a multi-millionaire, won’t pay the tax he wants you to pay.
Obama earns around $170k salary as a US Senator. His wife is unemployed. That places them under the $250k level for HIS coming tax increases.
And where does he park the $5 – $10 million from his book? All of it was placed in TAX EXEMPT bonds and other TAX EXEMPT funds.
Not only won’t HE be subject to his own tax increases for the “rich”, but his clever advisers showed him how to get bonus Taxpayer money kickbacks–with Tax Credits. He did this by buying a special series of Chicago-Illinois Education Savings Plans for his children. As a reward, he will receive thousands of dollars from–TAXPAYERS.
He-who-would-be-president could care less about capital gains rates. He’ll never pay a nickel.
Obama and his “redistribution” plan is nothing but basic communism, which of course, supports a separate class for the party’s wealthy elitists.
10/15/2008 5:20 PM EDT
I am a republican who has the perfect share the wealth idea…lets “absorb” all wealth above 50 million–trust funds, houses, boats, art, whatever. All americans will be required to submit estimate of worth, and any items not included will be confiscated (oops, absorbed). In addition, all income over 500k will be taxed at 90%. Houses, art, property over 50 million will become property of the state. Let’s see what the kennedy’s, actors, actresses do then. Good bye jewelry, goodbye art, jets and antiques. Who wants to make over 500k then? Most small business owners, republicans, etc won’t be affected by this. Just think of the treasures that could be added!!Will Bill Gates give up his charity foundation to the state? Will he delight in giving up all over 50 million?? Don’t think so, but hey, it won’t hurt me, so what does it matter:) Let socialism only affect the truly rich (those who never need to work) ND LEAVE THE REST ALONE!!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e43_1224086229&p=1
Here’s one against McCain.
Wow– just when I feel there is no hope for humanity, I come on this forum and pretty much get proven right. In just three [EDIT: now five] pages of this forum topic, I have seen more bigotry, hate speech, and ill will than one could possibly stomach (and from BOTH the right and the left. ALL of you are guilty). Is this how America chooses to present itself to the world? As bickering, hate-filled, frothing rabid children? Disgusting…. absolutely disgusting. You people don’t deserve this country.
“Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion.
We shall prevail!”
-Big Brother, “1984”
“I have the most respect for Senator Obama.”
– John McCain, 10-15-08
Are you calling McCain a liar?
You are pathetic! What the hell are you talking about?
What would the Founding Fathers think of this fine fscking mess we’ve made for ourselves? 🙁
(I’m referring to ALL sides here)
We’re like a colony of rats that’s turned on itself. Everyone for themselves!
America wasn’t supposed to collapse into a third-world country for a couple of decades yet.
If I were to guess I’d say it’s already happened.
Whites and Blacks are a hated minority in Hawaii.
Obama was raised in Hawaii.
Obama goes the mainland USA and for 20 years attends Rev. Wrights “God dam America” and “The US KKK of A” BLACK RACIST church.
Obama makes friends with terrorist Ayers who bombed the Capital.
Obama recieved over $125,000 from Freddie and Fannie. Hillary got $75,000 and Senator Dodd got the most at $165,000 from the same.
Harry Reed received a sweetheart low interest loan from “Friends of Angelo” at Countrywide, the first business to go under and bought by Bank of America.
Next Freddie and Fannie gets taken over by the Treasury, which Bush wanted to do back in 2003 and again in 2005 (S190, didn’t pass Congress) when it was realized it was being abused/not a sound business model and placed our entire economy at risk.
“Privitalizing the profit and Socializing the risk” for sub-prime mortgages.
Freddie and Fannie repackaged Mortgage backed securities and dumped them on WALL STREET. Which several multi-decade old companies went out of business.
Obama IS NOT CHANGE, HE’S PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!
Socialized sup-prime mortgages.
YOU PAY $700 BILLION plus $110 BILLION in PORK!!!
2 million for wooden arrow company in Oregon, 99% Democrat.
20 million for auto racing? Millions for Captain Morgan and others with Puerto Rican Rum?
WFT??
Too many interests/people in Congress, creating too much trouble/corruption/pork spending.
We need to “FIX” Congress NOW!!!
McCain said he has the most respect for Obama. How retarded are you?
No, seriously. How retarded are you?
Would you like a video link for the Trainable Mentally Retarded?
Yikes.
McCain is losing his shit.
Did McCain ever run against George W. Bush? How did that work out?
This whole economic stock market ho hah is reminding me of
this.
George Bush is my hero!
And as far as the American public, THIS reminds me of the American public and their rich masters.
go McCain!!!!!!
Go McAnal!
WTF???
Palin’s Reverend
Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber! Joe the Plumber!
Awesome job Joe! You speak the truth! Obama is a slimy liar.
I heard Joe was in Scranton, too
http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfounded_.html
they just can’t prove it……
TowerTone is sexy. He love you long time. Like peas and carrots.
Colonoscopy.
TT: You left the door open and now all the flies are coming in.
Yeah, because they think they have seen the light.
But it is a black light, and makes a zapping noise when they get close.
Oh, the fury…
To all the Joe the Plumbers out there in MDNville
Why is it “wrong/bad” to pay more as you make more ?
Why is it “right/good” to pay same, or less, as you make more ?
Now, this is assuming you do not subscribe to the theories of the Popular Economic School of Thought – seemingly based upon Never-Ending Credit™ – which is not doing too well these days because it’s apparently supported by nothing more than that ol’ Furniture Store Salesman Advertising Slogan:
“The more you spend, the more you save”
Ergo, run this math through your spreadsheets:
Would you like to have 10% of something ?
Or 100% of nothing ?
BC
BC
Basic economics.
If you want an economy to grow, you don’t take away incentives to earn more.
Common sense.
If I work harder and make more, why should I have to pay more for someone who works less?
I would ask you, why is it ok/good to pay a higher percent because you are more productive?
You are already paying more because you are making more, as long as it is at the same percent. That is called “fair”, where the the higher rate is simply “fare”.
I don’t think just because someone borrowed money for college, did as well as possible, went out into the world and builds a life, that they should be burdened disproportionally for those that choose a simpler path.
I also don’t believe it is wise to use class envy to garner votes. When the upper class gets fed up with the load put on their backs, they WILL take their money elsewhere, leaving the job to the middle class, who will eventually see that the burgeoning lower class (in size) has more power in their vote to elect officials who continue the class warfare angle by promising more for the poor to get elected, and then tax the shrinking middle class to pay for it.
Once the tipping point is reached where the lower class has the majority of the eligible voting age, they then control the decline of an economy by demanding more for less.
There is your 100% of nothing.
T.T. o’Buddy
(and anyone else who may stumble upon this late in The Age of Old Comments)
Sorry, are your definitions of “Basic Economics, Common Sense” that have us in the Troubles of The Day™
incentives, productivity, middle/lower class, etc …
All of these terms, and the philosophy behind them, need further examination in light of Current Events™
Since WWII – Our Global Economic System, Free Market, all based on Easy and Never Ending Credit™
Not only at the highest levels, but right down to your Family Budget™
And now those bills are coming due.
The Middle Class American Dream™ – as advertised for last 50+ years – has been spending more than it saves, often more than it makes.
And now those bills are coming due.
Please, do this – gave links here recently, if missed, here you go. Worth 2nd look otherwise
Bill Moyers has had 2 interesting guests of late – George Soros and Andrew Bacevich
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/archives/archives.php
They both speak of these matters – especially Bacevich.
Scroll down for their episode’s videos, or if bandwidth-challenged the transcripts
(and please don’t get hung up on any “political leanings” of anyone involved, might miss Bacevich that way)
Watch them, then we can go from there, ok ?
BC
TowerTone,
Let’s ask a different question: Would you be opposed to the government making it easier, say, the first year, for someone trying to start a business…. y’know, maybe through tax credits or tax relief, just so they can get their foot in the door. And then, after that first year, once they are a productive member of the business community, having them contribute what everyone else contributes? Suddenly you have more people who are contributing to the economy, creating jobs and producing products and/or services.
I look at this as parenting a child. When they are born, you don’t expect them to start cooking their own food right away. You help feed them first until they are old enough to take care of themselves.
I’m not saying Obama’s tax plan is like this (it does seem more welfare-y), but often when I hear certain conservatives talk, it’s pretty much “you live here, you pay your own way” across the board, no matter the cause or reason. I do believe their are times when helping people on the low end of the totem pole would benefit our nation, and our economy, as a whole, and the idea I just outlined isn’t socialism (in my view), but there are plenty who would still view it as such.
What is your take?
Why is it “wrong/bad” to pay more as you make more ?
First, if you set the tax percentage ramp too steep, you kill any incentive TO make more. As others have posted, why bother with all the work of getting a decent degree and building a successful business, when Uncle Sam will just take a good part of it back? Why not just drop out of high school, be a total bum, and live off the handouts? Why contribute when it’s so much easier to take?
People who are truly at the poverty level should have minimal tax burden (which most do). But for the rest of us there should be a single tax rate.
Second, politicians are never smart enough to index tax rates to inflation. What if in 1900 they passed a steep tax rate for “well off” people making over $10,000/year? You get the idea.
BC
BS!!! Soros had nothing new to say, other than the Feds were behind the curve, then offered a Socialist view, which is fundamentally against the free market. I never trust him. And Bill, who was raised 30 miles from me (as Lady Bird was), is light years from those people he spoke of in Marshall.
Absolutely no mention of the faults the regulation caused by giving this credit, only the problem the credit created, rather than examine what would have happened had the banks not loaned the money in the first place to unworthy people. Of course, that would have looked bad for the Democrats who kept this plan going, something that is a no-no to Moyers and Soros.
I don’t trust Soros. Let me repeat that. That. Not that he can’t get something right, but because it is in his interest to manipulate the market. I fear that he may become a Cabinet member in an Obama administration.
And it did nothing to sway my opinion on taxes.
Now for Bacevich
HR
“it’s pretty much “you live here, you pay your own way” across the board, “
I never said anything about disbursement when tax rates are fair, only when they affect the economy.
There will always be a subset of society that has to be taken care of, no matter how good things are.
The idea is to have a path for these people, if physically and mentally able, to move up.
“Sometime around the 1960s there was a tipping point, when the “empire of production” began to become the “empire of consumption.” When the cars started to be produced elsewhere, and the television sets, and the socks, and everything else. And what we ended up with was the American people becoming consumers rather than producers.”
BC, that coincides with the rest of the industrial world recovering from WWII, and with the wealth the US earned from helping it rebuild.
“BILL MOYERS: -this speech killed any chance he had of winning reelection. Why? Because the American people didn’t want to settle for less?
ANDREW BACEVICH: They absolutely did not. And indeed, the election of 1980 was the great expression of that, because in 1980, we have a candidate, perhaps the most skillful politician of our time, Ronald Reagan, who says that, “Doom-sayers, gloom-sayers, don’t listen to them. The country’s best days are ahead of us.”
I recall it as being a time when Americans were tired of losing, and Carter, whether he initially had a good plan to keep our economy balanced, lacked the leadership and foreign policy experience to get America going again after Vietnam and Watergate, not tot mention Iran, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, and lack of abundant energy.
Sorry, but Bacevich, while making some good points and calling himself a Conservative, doesn’t close the deal, doesn’t explain to me what other choices taken would have led to.
And I still don’t see what disproportional taxation has to do with it, other than in the ‘grand’ scheme of helping the nation out of debt.
But if it slows an already fragile market, how can that raise more money for Uncle Sam?
…and now for something completely different
http://www.tv.com/video/15055/dances-with-wolves?o=tv&tag=show_summary;video;thumb
Towertone,
RE: “I never said anything about disbursement when tax rates are fair, only when they affect the economy.”
I never said you did. I asked the question to see what your stand was…. nothing more. Certain conservatives (not saying you) would be opposed to even what I just proposed, and I was wondering your take, as you are a common resident of these boards, including the politically-charged ones. We have debated political issues before, and I was wondering your take, and not at all attacking your position.
Thank you for the response. In regard to it, I agree with what you said.
Taxed Out,
Excellent points. However, the frustrating thing about all of the debating going on right now, and not just in these forums, is there is a lot of back-and-forth on why the other side’s proposals are bad ideas. There is little to no discussion or brainstorming on new, feasible ideas. This country has significant financial challenges. If taxation (in whatever flavor you want to consider– i.e. progressive, regressive, etc.) is not the solution, how else do we financially right the ship? Instead of attacking ideas, let’s start by creating some. Any ideas, anybody?
HR
When you find yourself on a hole “the first thing you stop doing is digging”.
1- Forget socialized medicine. For the near future (decade) Medicare/Medicaid will have to do the best it can.
2- Get behind the war effort as a nation should, and bring it to an end as soon as feasible. That doesn’t mean cut and run.
3- Demand that the UN do its job in Darfur, Somalia, wherever, or get the hell out of the US. We are not getting a good return on our investment with them.
4- Make this bailout smaller than announced. As soon as a corner is turned, get the hell out of the market, set up the rules and oversight, and leave it alone. Meddling is what got this crap started. THE GALL OF CHRIS DODD TO EVEN OPEN HIS MOUTH ON THIS SUBJECT!
5- Drill, drill, drill. Use the added tax revenue from NEW domestic production to fund research of alternative energy through grants and investments. Do NOT penalize the oil companies.
6- Keep the current tax rate.
7- A two year cap on all spending. No more growth, and quit calling that a cut in benefits.
I believe the markets would react positively to our pulling out of the Middle East by investing in our own resources and nuclear power, and seriously putting a stop to the growth of government.
In a perfect future, the military budget will decline as domestic energy becomes more abundant, the trade deficit will shrink as the dollar stabilizes, and we can SLOWLY begin to look at a way to pay for the large number of elderly coming into Social Security and Medicare.
Or not….
This is the type of inside the beltway BS that must stop.
Republican, Democrat, I don’t care.
When someone lies through his teeth, his feet should be held to the fire.
The only way I could have more contempt for this man, and his type, would be if he were from my party affiliation, which would ad shame to that contempt
OK, Jim TIV, we got past 5 to 6.
Speaking of lies:
HOLLAND, Ohio (AP) — Joe the Plumber’s story sprang a few leaks Thursday. Turns out that the man who was held up by John McCain as the typical, hard-working American taxpayer isn’t really a licensed plumber. And court documents show he owes nearly $1,200 in back taxes.
Oops.
How about fixing the inefficiencies of government program. It is absolutely staggering the waste that goes on and causes the need for even more taxes. Just streamlining operations and holding people accountable for their job performance in these government programs would be a huge step forward. Hard working people do not want to give the government endless amounts of money to totally waste. Obama makes no mention of all of the wonderful private charities out there. He just wants government to spread the wealth around and tell us how much we can make, what house to live in, what job to have, and eventually what to think. No way!!!
What Kind of Moron would want this Scumbag as our President? Brianless, Liberals! From Dreams of My Father:’I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.’ From Dreams of My Father : ‘I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother’s race.’ From Dreams of My Father:’There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.’ From Dreams of My Father: ‘It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.’ From Dreams of My Father:’I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn’t speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa , that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.’ And FINALLY the Most Damning one of ALL of them!!! From Audacity of Hope:’I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.
Actually Joe the Plumber works for a plumbing firm under their license. He doesn’t need his own license. Anyone in the contracting business knows this. If he buys the company as long as he has someone with a license listed as the license holder he is fine. And depending on how long he has worked alongside a licensed plumber he can get his own license if he so desires.
thanks for proving my point
Joe the Plumber never claimed he was a licensed plumber. In fact he pointed out that he wasn’t. What’s your point?
Dan
What IS your point?
@Dan, Dan, @@@Dan, -DanX2=Emc2;
wait, I’m confused…
Dan lost that one.
Charity is something you do with your own money, not other peoples money. Liberals like to act like they care for people but what they really want to do is act charitable with the money of others. Joe Biden has given an average of around $350 over the last five years to charity. Obamas percentage of income to charity is not a lot better. It pales in comparison to what McCain gives which is around 25% of his income. An experiment was done not to long ago to see who was more charitable, Democrats or Republicans. They placed Salvation Army kettles in San Francisco and somewhere in Idaho. Although the per capita income was half of San Francisco the people in Idaho gave twice as much, making them four times as charitable as a percentage of income. The redistribution of income (people making $250,000/year are not wealthy) is blatant socialism. The reason our economy has been the most succesful in the world is because it has been proven that people are the most productive when they are working for themselves and their family, not for the government.
Always
Think you are confused? I thought ‘jobs’ had 4 letters….
NANA-
What the fock is that?
Like my “nana”?
My Grandma on my Dad’s side?
I’m I supposed to be nostalgic for the 50’s?
T.T.
I’ll be dog-gone.
You’re neighbors with my Father and His Family. Just down the road in Texarkana for last 100 years or so.
(Mom and Her Family from Oklahoma, but we don’t want to get a Red River thing going here, smile)
Now …. to you, taxed out, and others ….
Sorry, I’m about ‘taxed out’ at the moment, and would be up the other half of tonight trying to respond to all that’s been written.
But let me try this much …
Screw Government. No Taxes. No Welfare. No Social Security. No Police. No Fire Department. Nothing.
If you’re stupid and raise stupid kids, your problem. I’m not giving a penny to build a School for them.
When you get old, or sick, your problem. I’m not going to feed you or send my doctor to your house.
If your crops don’t come in one year, tough. Go hungry. If you get hit by tornado, sorry, not my concern.
When your asshole drunken husband beats you and your kids, sorry. It’s his Castle.
When your Grandma has a flat tire on side of road, in the rain. Not my duty to stop and help her.
If you can’t hack it, tough. We’re all on our own – survival of the fittest.
That what you want ?
Will entertain answers tomorrow …
… following examinations of Social Contract and Christian Philosophy in Western Culture.
BC
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki – is open all night for any last minute research, smile)
Now let me go watch the video link you sent me TT, thanks
And you think Soros holds a “Socialist view, which is fundamentally against the free market” ?
Interesting description of a Billionaire who grew up under Nazis and Soviets.
Apparently you didn’t read or see entire interview, may want to re-check that, then rework your thought.
And have the feeling you maybe only read transcripts of Moyers interviews ?
Lot ‘more’ in videos – voice inflections, vocal emphasis, body language, etc
P.S.
And please make sure, as Bacevich describes it:
That YOU have “Looked in the mirror”
That YOU have “Set thine own house in order”
“What IS your point?”
There wasn’t one. It’s just fun to see the idiotic spew over nothing.
But it is also funny that the candidates spar over tax breaks and McCain uses as an example a man who owes some $1,200 in back taxes, according to the state of Ohio. Ironic.
RE: TowerTone: “5- Drill, drill, drill. Use the added tax revenue from NEW domestic production to fund research of alternative energy through grants and investments. Do NOT penalize the oil companies.”
I have a caveat to this, TT. All new domestic production cannot be sold by oil companies on the world market– it must be sold exclusively for American use. Considering America is loaning oil companies its land for their use, and the premise is to ease our domestic supply burden, this is not a terrible or unfair request.
There’s two sides to every story. Who knows what Joe the Plumber’s side of that tax lien story is. I’m sure we’ll find out. Just because someone liens your property, even, the state, doesn’t mean it’s valid.
RE: TowerTone: “1- Forget socialized medicine. For the near future (decade) Medicare/Medicaid will have to do the best it can. “
This looks great on paper, but lousy if you know somebody (including yourself) who is desperately sick or dying. These people can’t wait for the system to do the best it can, and I reject any notion of “too bad for them”. This country does not leave its citizens behind.
I disagree that the health care problem should be put on hold. It needs a serious re-vamp now. I don’t have an answer, but I do think stripping a great deal of the bureaucratic layers (i.e. insurance companies) that add costs, time, and frustration to the process would be a start. Now would be a good time to start conceiving of a better privatized system that would make the process simpler, enhance the efficiency of dollars to treatment, and improve the doctor/patient relationship. Right now, I am not sold on Obama’s health care plan. And McCain’s absolutely terrifies me.
“@Dan”
Thank you for proving my point.
What point?
It’s crazy how it only took the media a day to find out about Joe’s tax and business status, yet its taken over a year to determine which of Rev. Wrights sermons Barack sat through. Oh wait they still haven’t figured that out! Get off this guys back media (AP) and spare what little credibility you have left!
TowerTone is WAY über-sexy. Like “Tssssssss! HOT!!”
Hey Libs, How about this headline “Hawaii ending universal child health care”. I wonder why?????? Get a clue. Obama is a fraud.
OBAMA ‘07 FLASHBACK: ACORN WILL HELP ‘SHAPE THE AGENDA’
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=199833
@BC Kelley….
When all else fails, pull out the ridiculous extremes. BTW you forgot to include the children who’ll starve if we don’t overtax the rich.
Also BTW, how much AAPL stock do you own? Would it be fair for Uncle Sam to take a majority of your proceeds because you’re “rich”? At least the fire department will be funded.
And thanks for pointing out the farms. I personally know farmers who are doing very well, pulling in nice profits off record prices AND still getting subsidy checks. Apparently six- and seven-figure earners aren’t among the rich & still need social support.
As for Bush’s anti-piracy law? What are we gonna argue about after the elections?
McCain and Palin are complete liars and frauds.
http://pinocchiopolitics.org/long_list.htm
Well if that’s how you label McCain/Palin then Obama is the anti-christ or worse. Talk about liar leading a party of liars who will lie cheat and steel to get their way. Sick.
“cheat and steel”
Illiterate moron.
You must get tired of asking, “paper or plastic?”
“The Times without hesitation endorses Barack Obama for president.” – The Los Angeles Times
“We dig that kinky McCain/Palin thing going on.” – The National Enquirer and News of the Weird
So we have exactly two choices: Bad and Worse.
It is truly pathetic these are the best such a great country can come up with.
America’s political system has turned into Microsoft.
Too bad no write-ins stand a realistic chance of winning….
Sorry I wasn’t able to get back sooner. I am out of town ( in Texarkana, as a matter of fact, BC) and have a hard time getting my post on MDN from my iPhone. Not sure why.
HR
I had considered the idea of new domestic oil being targeted for America only, but then realized, how do you regulate that? does that mean only 100% American companies can get in the production? Does that mean foreign banks can’t finance companies that are building the infrastructure of the oilfield?
The idea is to get America off foreign oil, and to lower energy prices. Just the fact that these resources will be available will have a positive effect on the market, and obviously American companies should get the bids to produce.
However, they will be ale to divert any other oil to any other market they wish, which will negate the positive from strict market control.
Once again, a free market will lower the price worldwide and help offset the Middle East and OPEC.
As far as the problem with health care, I still haven’t heard a good plan. The $5000 plan would certainly help me, but I generally look beyond that and to what is viable for the nation.
What is it about your friends that they aren’t covered by one of the available plans? They have covered my kids and low income friends. Did they have the income to buy insurance before they became ill, and why didn’t they buy it?
And sorry, BC, but I gotta agree with Taxed Out on your response.
The flip side is “why not take all of everybody’s income, and take care of everything”?
The discussion was concerning the amount that is fair to tax and why the wealthy should be disproportionally penalized for their success.
I have never proposed, or heard any credible person say that there should be no tax or services provided with them.
Of course, I can understand that you might have been upset if, say, you didn’t get your comped passes to see “W”.
How’s that mirror looking now?
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TT: Hit the lights on the way out. Thanks, bud.
No need, Amp.
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As you should know, I postulate in the dark…..
taxed out … and TT – welcome back, please don’t let Texarkana Police know where I am, thanks
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Just got in myself from working a bunch, and wanted to get this up so you all can find it sooner than later
(now, this is rough shorthand of sorts, are some terms I don’t define with great elaboration, and some historical concepts I give broad brush strokes, so hope you can forgive my speed at moment, and we’ll continue to fill in the missing gaps over time, bc)
Ok, now we have “ridiculous extreme” defined in one direction, and believe “extremes” in other direction are fairly well documented here and elsewhere, so won’t belabor that point.
All that remains is for us to work out The Proper Balance™
That Proper Balance™ – how we define it, how we make it work – is the “National Discussion” we’ve been having from beginning of Nation.
Over time The Proper Balance™ has needed some adjusting on occasion. Some times a little, some times a lot. But as a Democracy, that’s what we’re supposed to be doing. However, the one we’re in now, our Current Era, faces some unique challenges.
To understand this, and my definition of this Current Era, and understand it’s significance – consider the majors of the past in our Culture:
Greeks, Romans, Dark Ages, Middle Ages … then, 1492 – a New World
Jump forward 500 years, and 2 World Wars – now World has become Village
And the USA is central, a leader, in this Global Village which marks a major chapter turn in World History – and remember, 50 or 60 years in the grand sweep of World History is just a drop in the bucket of Time.
Plus, the USA no longer has its Walls of Ocean to keep out rest of World while we work out our own internal Proper Balance. A luxury which we had in past – one type of ‘exceptionalism’ as described by Bacevich – but no longer exists in the Global Village today. Example – we have to fill up our gas tanks with a hose that reaches 1/2 way round the World.
Many would argue this was all very evident by the 60s and 70s, but few can argue it’s not evident now.
We need to accept as fact that we are in a New World with new and unique dynamics, so we can finally quit screwing around, and work out our situations and problems here in the USA, and fast.
Because we’ll need to be ready for rest of World, who needs our help and leadership, now.
Or we can ignore rest of World, at our own risk.
Or Nuke ’em All and Let God Sort It Out™
But that seems a bit “extreme”
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Colin Powell supports Barack Obama for very good reasons as do most major newspapers including the Chicago Tribune, the first time this newspaper has endorsed the Democratic Party’s nominee for president.
Concerning the original subject of this article: Federal anti-piracy laws
If we’re not able to find Proper Balance™ in matters regarding Real Property
Then we don’t stand a chance with the Intellectual kind
BC
WTF?
Long on eloquence
Short on answers.
Sorry, doesn’t really go anywhere for me….:-(
Here is my short answer on taxes-
You want to keep them as simple as possible and low as possible.
You want to keep them consistent from year to year.
Does your budget go up and down?
Then adjust your spending accordingly.
Business cannot plan long term when the target keeps moving.
People work for businesses. You punish the corporations, you punish the employees.
Stability breeds confidence, and that helps in market strategies.
Lets keep the tax rate low, and look for other ways to maximize Uncle Sam’s revenues.