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Just a negotiating ploy by AAPL to get a better deal with AT&T;.

Apr 27, 09 - 09:23 am Comment from: MacNScott

If this happens I feel sorry for the "competition".

Tread with caution. Thats making a deal with the devil. Verizon is the same company that required phone manufacturers to disable bluetooth filesharing so you are forced to transfer photos files over their network at outrageous rates. Verizon has a long history of extorting their customers, do you think they have miraculously changed? I don't think so.

I would not be surprised if Apple had been sitting on a CDMA version of the phone all throughout. It's just so Jobs way of doing business - OSX support for Intel alongside PPC. Apple invests a lot of money on R&D;, I somehow doubt they have a lazy section in the back rooms.

I think it might be a mistake to dismiss this as simply a negotiating ploy.

MDN MW: 'fear.' That's funny.

Apr 27, 09 - 09:29 am Comment from: silverwarloc

I love the smell of napalm in the morning! Or, in this case, the smell of iPhone...

Apr 27, 09 - 09:35 am Comment from: blah blah blah...

Verizon is going to get an uproar from their other handset manufacturers. I can see it now

LG: "why the hell does Apple get to use WIFI"
RIM:"yeah thats not fair!"
MOTO: "Why the does apple get to use Bluetooth the way they do"
Samsung: "Why the hell do you make us put your Crapy UI, and Apple doesn't?"
RIM: "WHAT?!?!? They don't have to Verizon's logo anywhere on their phone?"
LG: "what they don't have to use any of verizon's services and just use their own App Store?"
Moto: "SH!T!! we're going out of business."

This is part of their ploy. Look they've done their research already folks. with that whole "are you leaving verizon for the iPhone?" questionaire. CEO dumbass is just covering his ass from all his stupid comments about Steve dying, them having better phones, trying to make at&t;sweat a little.

Apr 27, 09 - 09:35 am Comment from: Big Als MBP

That means Canada will get some real iPhone competition as well with Telus and Bell entering the picture.

Apr 27, 09 - 09:38 am Comment from: Jersey_Trader

Only 2 years too late Verizon!

You thought Apple had tuff terms 2 years ago. Now, you will sign on Apple's NEW terms!

Verizon also disabled GPS capabilities on some Blackberrys in favor of it's own "VZ Navigator" which is of course fee-based. Nickel-and-dimed at every opportunity.

the world needs iPhone available on all carriers. it's for the good of mankind. seriously.

BAMBP
Do you think Ted will pay dearly to keep CDMA out of CA?

no way folks. not a cdma version. maybe lte, but you'll have to wait until 2011.

Apr 27, 09 - 09:45 am Comment from: eMax

I switched from Verizon to AT&T;and overall I have to say I think Verizon's overall coverage and dropped calls between NJ and Boston is better then AT&T;. However, Im certainly weary about the switch to LTE for verzion and I wonder if they would have the same quality of service overall vs CDMA.

If I could switch back to Verizon and loose nothing with how the iPhone operates and gain Service quality It would certainly be tempting. Lets hope if anything happens prices are for the people.

Apr 27, 09 - 09:47 am Comment from: Follower

And Tim Cook just said the plan is to make one version of the iPhone for everybody everywhere. Still, Mac OS X on Intel... I don't know. @IHopeYouCanHearMeNow: I would suspect that Verizon has learned their lesson, and if this does come to pass, I bet their iPhone will be feature-identical to AT&T;'s version, even down to pricing of the data plan. AT&T;'s iPhone implementation has proven that dropping the old established extortive ways = $$$.

Verizon has a long history of being awful to customers and they showed their true colors when Apple first approached them about an iphone deal - they walked because they couldn't control everything about the phone. I say screw Verizon, they had their chance to bring a wonderful product to market with iphone1. Have fun with Windows Mobile.

Apr 27, 09 - 09:51 am Comment from: Predrag

I know some people are overwhelmed with joy, ejaculating as we speak, from the possibility of iPhone on Verizon.

Realistically, though, so many things point strongly against that possibility that I believe these people are ograsming for nothing.

First, the fact that Verizon is by far the biggest control freak carrier in the world (as was mentioned in the posts above). Second, it has already been said by the senior Apple management, that CDMA phone doesn't make much sense for them at this point. Lastly, they really see no real benefit from doing this. Verizon has marginally better coverage than AT&T. The total addressable market that Verizon would bring (the number of potential customers that live/work in the zones of Verizon's coverage that aren't covered properly by AT&T) is insignificant for Apple's growth. There is still plenty of AT&T's addressable market that is still untapped. Besides, keeping an exclusive deal gives Apple significantly stronger hand in negotiating concessions from AT&T. If everyone can have it, there would be no significant motivation for any specific carrier to give concessions to Apple, if its iPhone customers can easily switch to another iPhone carrier.

What this news means is, we're most likely see an extension to the AT&T contract, with an even better deal for Apple, and possibly (actually, quite likely), some nice things out of it for us, the consumers.

Apr 27, 09 - 09:57 am Comment from: NCMacMan

I have to agree with @Ma Bell -- this is a classic contract strategy. Everyone knows that other companies who deal with Apple have loose lips, and Apple won't stop the leaks from occurring. Besides, even the mere mention of talks going on will only boost Verizon's short term stock price.

AT&T;knows it has to keep the iPhone. Even any rumors that another major competitor might be in talks would produce a positive outcome for Apple in any negotiations. Both AT&T;and Apple can ink a new contract that is a Win-Win for both.

Unfortunately, Verizon cannot gain back it's lost opportunity. I can never see Apple producing a CDMA version of it's phone. royalties to Qualcomm alone are pricey for this technology and that is just another reason why Apple won't create a Verizon compatible handset.

Every other manufacturer has handsets on both carriers, why not apple?

I'm inclined to believe that Apple has had a CDMA version of the iPhone from the beginning. If Verizon does relent to Apple's demands, I wonder how long before jail broken iPhones appear on other CDMA networks.

High Level Talks:

Verizon: "Okay, we admit it, we should have partnered with you when you first approached us. We'd like to have the iPhone."

Apple: "Cool!"

Verizon: "Of course, it'll have to be CDMA..."

Apple: "Of course."

Verizon: "...and we wouldn't be offering Visual Voicemail."

Apple: "Ummmmm."

Verizon: "And in keeping with our existing business model we'd also need you disable GPS, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, and the ability to install applications. Oh, and homemade ringtones. The user will be able to purchase ringtones from the Verizon iTunes Store. And our logo needs to appear prominently on both front and back."

Apple: "WAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA OH HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE HAH HA HA HA HA ha ha hee hoo ohhhhhhhhh...Verizon, you're hilarious. But seriously."

Verizon: "..."

Apple: "Goodbye."

Apr 27, 09 - 10:04 am Comment from: silverhawk

Predrag
How about the "addressable market that Verizon" has in NYC. Significant I would have to say and worth an "orgasm."

Apr 27, 09 - 10:09 am Comment from: Sixvodkas

@ jackspratt nailed it.

I'd never been so locked down as I was with Verizon, and unless they're making a LOT of changes, there's no way I'd ever consider going back to them.

eviscerated...hmm.

The Verizon iPhone will be LTE, not CDMA. Verizon already has said it will beginng migration to LTE in late 2009. Apple must add Verizon to put nails in the Windows Mobile/Symbian/Blackberry coffins and grow the installed base. It's still all about Market share. This is equivalent to licensing the Mac OS back in the 1980's.

Don't go with Vodafone/Verizon - customer extortion specialists.

And Vodafone is in Europe, they're right to say that. BUT ONLY in the Czech Republic, Greece, Italy and Portugal...

Apr 27, 09 - 10:36 am Comment from: HMCIV

Verizon in high level talks?

Nah? I think Verizon's high, and they're talking because they think they're on the level.

I would never switch to Verizon - terrible company.

Apr 27, 09 - 10:52 am Comment from: Islandgirl

"Second, it has already been said by the senior Apple management, that CDMA phone doesn't make much sense for them at this point."

Didn't Steve Jobs say no one wanted to watch video on a tiny screen right before he released the iPod video?

Verizon: "...and we wouldn't be offering Visual Voicemail."

Verizon offers Visual Voicemail on some of its phones.

The fact that Verizon is going to roll out LTE slightly ahead of AT & T doesn't mean that it is going to do it everywhere all at once. Just as there are places where AT & T users of LTE will need to drop down to UMTS, EDGE, or GSM, so a Verizon iPhone 4G would need the ability to drop down from LTE to CDMA. So, even in the 4G era, iPhones for Verizon will be unusable on AT & T (or in the majority of countries that have only GSM), and vice-versa, unless Apple is willing to build phones with both chip sets that could be used on either network. Does anybody have an idea how expensive that might be? Without dual-capability phones, there would be no real competition at the consumer level in any case, since customers could not switch from one company to the other without buying a new phone.

Apr 27, 09 - 11:02 am Comment from: Big Als MBP

@ Rike,

Isn't Ted dead?

Rogers has no long term contract. Apple would love to screw them over.

Apr 27, 09 - 11:09 am Comment from: Predrag

Silverhawk:

I'm on AT&T in NYC and have yet to find a dead spot, although I haven't spent too much time in some parts of the Bronx. If you have problems in NYC with AT&T, it may be your phone. I can't possibly see Verizon offering a meaningful number of customers in NYC that AT&T can't cover.

A number of Verizon's Blackberries work on both GSM and CDMA networks, including the Storm. It's entirely possible.

I note that in one of my technical journals there was a discussion of software controlled radios, that is the software program determines the nature of the radio such as operating frequencies, etc. It may in fact be possible for a future iPhone to be programmed to operate on either CDMA or GSM without changing chip sets.

Considering the nature of the iPhone, I suspect that the phone is a modular block system and changing chips to create a GSM or CDMA radio is a relatively trivial step relative to all of the other building blocks that do not change.

Apr 27, 09 - 11:43 am Comment from: Bitjockey

Oooh evisceration in the morning!

Seriously, iPhone needs to support multiple carriers. Users need to be able to slip in a SIM card for the service that works where they are. Things will be this way eventually...... skate to the puck eh?

Apr 27, 09 - 12:10 pm Comment from: alansky

What absolutely must happen, in my opinion, is an end to AT&T;'s intolerable refusal to allow iPhone features that might reduce AT&T;'s revenue. If we end up with yet another iPhone carrier who takes a similar position, iPhone owners are going to start getting really pissed off. We want tethering, we want Skype over 3G... We want everything the iPhone is capable of without interference from greedy buggers like AT&T;. Let them charge whatever they have to charge for their service and then get out of the way!

Apr 27, 09 - 12:17 pm Comment from: Predrag

As it is now, you can take your SIM out of your iPhone and slip it into any Sony-Ericsson, Samsung, Nokia... as long as it is a GSM phone that works on the frequency band of the carrier covering your area. I'm also pretty certain that those who own first-gen iPhones will be able to ask AT&T (in the US) for unlocking instructions and get them the same way they can get instructions for any other phone that AT&T sells right now.

However, even if they were to do that, you still wouldn't be able to use that iPhone with Verizon (because IT IS CDMA!).

And yes, there are a number of hybrid phones (CDMA and GSM) out there. These are sold only through Verizon, and the only reason they are made hybrid is so that people can roam beyond the minuscule CDMA footprint of US (and, to some extent, Canada). Elsewhere in the world, it's GSM all the way, so the CDMA-only phones are dead in the water.

Hybrid (dual-chip) phones are clumsy, expensive and battery hogs. It is very, very unlikely Apple would sacrifice size and/or battery life, only to be able to gain imperceptible percentage of market share that's covered by CDMA and not by GSM alone. And no software can emulate fundamental difference between CDMA and GSM hardware; these are separate, entirely different chips.

Apr 27, 09 - 12:19 pm Comment from: blah blah blah...

One this argument is redundant. Verizon can spread all these rumors all they want. As I have stated before Verizon is trying to save their asses for passing on the puck and letting at&t;take control. Apple has to do their quality control test over the networks, I don't think Verizon is going tobe to happy about giving up their Verizon Nav, Photo Print, Verizon music, pretty much everything Apple has to offer for free via App store.

And most importantly this does not be talked about till next year, LTE is going to be very very condensed market when it first launches, Apple isn't exactly well known for jumping on the bandwagon on new signals, They like to make sure its stable, and they can test it to their specifications(battery life,. It took a year to get the 3G out, it'll probably be 2 years after LTE is out for a bigger market to conquer.

Apr 27, 09 - 12:22 pm Comment from: Jubei

Well Verizon seems to be doing something right. Again they have topped AT&T;new subscriber. 1.2 for AT&T;and 1.3 for Verizon. Despite the iPhone, AT&T;is still behind.

Apple would have to break its contract with AT&T;to offer a Verizon CDMA iPhone next year. Ain't gonna happen.

Also, Apple would be adding complexity and expense to its design and manufacturing by introducing a CDMA phone, which is basically useful only for Verizon in the US. And all that with Verizon planning to move to 4G in a year or two, which will bring it in alignment with other mobile phone networks.

Don't see it happening, UNLESS Verizon is willing to pay Apple LOT of $$$$$.

Apr 27, 09 - 01:20 pm Comment from: Roger Knights

Could Apple's acquisition of PA Semi have something to do with a plan to develop a chip that could handle the multiple protocols of different carriers? Does this sound feasible?

My coverage was a bit better with Verizon, especially on NYC, but they FUQUED me at any opportunity and as hard as they could. Nickle & diming service, crippling hardware that I paid for...
If they were the last cell carrier in the country I would seriously consider going back to landline. I have never felt more abused by a company that I had a contract with (except WSSC, the local water/sewer monopoly).

Magic word, "man":
as in; "Man am I glad the iPhone got me to ditch out of that abusive relationship!"

Apr 27, 09 - 03:12 pm Comment from: Scott Rose

I predicted this on my blog back on March 5, 2009:
http://scottworldblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/verizon-and-iphone.html

Apr 27, 09 - 03:12 pm Comment from: lurker

Short seller blatant attempt to drive AT&T;price down.

Apr 27, 09 - 03:18 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@MDN
"If Apple were to offer iPhone on both AT&T;and Verizon, the slim hopes and weak dreams of many of the second-tier players (Palm, Sprint, etc.), not to mention the companies themselves, would be eviscerated."

I disagree. If Verizon gets iPhone, then the "slim hopes and weak dreams" of second-tier companies will soar, not diminish.

Apr 27, 09 - 03:21 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@Scott Rose

Really? You predicted a month ago Verizon would have iPhone? Whoa, that's scary prescient. No wonder you have a blog!

What's the matter with you, you stupid or something?

Apr 27, 09 - 03:52 pm Comment from: Predrag

Scot Rose:

Se my first post above (quick summary: this negotiation is for show. There won't be a Verizon iPhone. It is to enhance Apple's already strong position against AT&T).

I would not be surprised if when the new iPhone comes (this summer, most likely), it will be offered with a slightly cheaper data plan, free tethering, iChat A/V (with a front-facing VGA camera) and the ability of Skype (and similar software) to run on 3G/EDGE, in addition to WiFi.

That's what I always say, eviscerate them rascals...

The next version of data transmission is UMTS. It's a standard and will be used by Verizon AND AT&T;.

A 3G-only version of the iPhone would likely move to the standard, allowing any carrier to to use it.

Apr 27, 09 - 05:06 pm Comment from: MacSmiley

The iPhone in South Dakota before 2013? That would be nice. I'm not holding my breath, though.

verizon service is a ton better in utah than at&ts;. i hope this happens.