MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

May 20, 08 - 05:15 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Microsoft: What do you want to advertise today?

May 20, 08 - 05:25 pm Comment from: rsbell

"If there's a buck to be made, screw the user."

May 20, 08 - 05:26 pm Comment from: occams razor

Who is in charge of this death dance, oh, OK, you mean he is, no, not the salesman, He am the eggman, fark, this is bad, no good, hey you know what I mean.

May 20, 08 - 05:29 pm Comment from: Fred Mertz

Egg-ducker!!!

May 20, 08 - 05:30 pm Comment from: DRM sucks

"In a limited way, it will also test the concept of ads on the Zune devices themselves."

Seriously?

"Kroese was quick to acknowledge that the concept of advertising on a portable media player might raise eyebrows for people when they first hear about it. (It would probably border on sacrilege for iPod users.) "

Yeah, those damn iPod users. They're such a cult. They won't even consider ads on their portable music devices.

"We're thinking about the integrity of the user experience, and the appropriate way of doing this, where it feels like there's value exchange, as opposed to, 'Oh, this is just ads,' " he said.

Oh, I take it back. Thanks for consideration. However, I don't want to exchange value with you.

May 20, 08 - 05:31 pm Comment from: AAPLguy

I believe this target is similar to what the advertising world refers to as the "grave-yard shift". Perfect place for Ronco info-mercials to reach the 50 saps who bought a Zune.

'As a zune owner I have been embarassed again and again with the unusable software, limits of functionality of the device (no HDD storage???), and now this, ADs on the software and in the device? The hipster Zunesters in building 87 need to quit drinking the cool-aid and give people a product that they are proud to use!'

From; http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/139268.asp

Well...... he can wait till the end of time.

"In a limited way, it will also test the concept of ads on the Zune devices themselves."

Well, I guess they have to figure out some way to make money on the Zune. But, with ads I'd be even less inclined to buy one (if I ever was even semi-inclined.)

maybe they are planning on giving Zune's away, and paying for them by selling lifetime ad space. They can't seem to sell them so free might work.

May 20, 08 - 05:49 pm Comment from: Macintosh

"It's one of the first projects to emerge from an advertising business group established inside Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices Division, working quietly behind the scenes since last fall,"

I like how they kept it secret... Pretending they have some team of bad asses with no business cards or Microsoft ID badges working up some master plan or some shit.

It's probably a bunch of people that although probably own a Zune, never really use it like an actual consumer would. When they are sitting on an airplane, they are typing away on their Thinkpads. When they are at the gym they are watching the big TV showing Nanny 911.

Those are the people that would dream up the idea that people want ads on their portable media device (and take this long to do it)...

May 20, 08 - 05:53 pm Comment from: MacBill

This is truly unbelievable -- not only is Microsoft adding advertisements to the 10 people that actually bought Zunes, but this shows yet another reason (out of millions) why Microsoft they cannot be trusted -- because they want to add advertising to products that should NOT be intruded upon by advertising!

May 20, 08 - 05:59 pm Comment from: Jamie

Wow. I mean, WOW!

What an utter piece of crap the Zune really is.

How do the ads work? Will you suddenly be told about the benefits of Mates® condoms in the middle of listening to God Save the Queen by The Sex Pistols?

Jesus Micro$oft, get a fscking clue.

May 20, 08 - 06:18 pm Comment from: Jubei

LOL... Is this for real? Your own player is going to be slapping ads at your face? C'mon. Will MS start slapping ads in your car when you use their idiotic sync on your Fords, Kia and Hyundai? I'm pretty sure even a TROLL, Ballmer butt kissing Zune lover will not be happy with this.

"the integrity of the user experience" ≠ ads

May 20, 08 - 06:30 pm Comment from: shen

"the best way to handle the integrity of the user experience"

Like people trying to figure out the nicest way to inform you of your STD.....

May 20, 08 - 06:34 pm Comment from: Spark

Okay, MDN... it's "Glass Houses" time.
When are you guys going to quit with the pop-under ads? Pop-ups were bad enough and I was glad when Safari built in a pop-up blocker. But pop-UNDERS are the new HELL that won't be blocked!! At least a pop-up is in your face and easy enough to close, but those multiple goddamn pop-unders disappear under a stack of various windows (that I have open for a reason) and play #@!*&#@!!! audio forcing me scramble to find the offending window.

The plethora of ads you already have on your main pages chokes your server down to crawl (pretty embarrassing to see the "Powered by Mac" as the bottom of page that just took 2-1/2 minutes to load). Do you seriously NEED the revenue from ads that are aggressively alienating your readership???

Why not follow the lead of MacSlash, who had the pop-unders stopped when asked to do so by his readers. These ads are cancerous and really poison the site for your readers and other advertisers.

PS-I've owned and operated an international advertising agency for 25 years and I can promise you that these pop-unders are truly counter-productive.

May 20, 08 - 07:08 pm Comment from: Jubei

Now that Microsoft has locked in on the supposedly NonProfit $100 dollar laptop initiative. Why not go all the way and give these unsuspecting souls who are now owned by MS to buy into Zunes also. Wow, MS can smash Ads on their Zunes and the laptops to bring the social to utter complete madness.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GadgetGuide/wireStory?id=4868428

What rolls downstairs
Alone or in pairs
And over your neighbors dog
What's good for a snack
What fits on your back
It's LOG! LOG! LOG!

Here, Here,

Drop the pop ups, pop unders and stupid inline advertising that jumps mini windows in your text. Look at DaringFireball.com for a good way to handle Ads.

May 20, 08 - 07:24 pm Comment from: Harvey

It's fun watching Microsoft plan their next pratfall.

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May 20, 08 - 07:26 pm Comment from: Wade

"But pop-UNDERS are the new HELL that won't be blocked!!"

Pithhelmet, for Safari, will stop them. I've actually never seen them. I'm pretty sure SafariBlock will deal with them, too, if set correctly, but, don't quote me.

May 20, 08 - 07:27 pm Comment from: JAYGEE

This song was brought to you by the good folks at McDonalds, the home of the big Mac.

May 20, 08 - 07:32 pm Comment from: LateRegistrant

"Hello, I'm an iPod,"

"And I'm a Zune..."

I can see it now, you can squirt your ad to another Zune user. Woohoo!

May 20, 08 - 07:42 pm Comment from: Road Warrior

I think this is just a way for MS to infiltrate advertising into all aspects of the digital lifestyle. [this period brought to you by Tampax] I guess it means that the 10 Zune users will be listening to a bunch of those subscription songs and will get adds just like on the radio...fantastic ! [this exclamation mark brought to you by Ford, come see your Ford dealer today to get a sweet deal on our latest models, you can also see some of our cars as well]. I mean, what's MS next ploy advertising on forums? [this question mark brought to you by Microsoft, cause we don't know what we are doing, and you should not either]

As Balmer should be saying: Marketers! Marketers! Marketers! [this new paragraph brought to you by Niagara, the only effective cure to Viagara overdose. They don't call it the falls for nothing. If you are worried about being too big, too hard for too long, take Niagara...we know how to make you a microsoftie].

May 20, 08 - 07:45 pm Comment from: Spark

@Wade
I knew there was something that was supposed to kill them but I couldn't remember the name. Thanks for the tip. I Googles "stop Safari pop-unders" and found no reference to this solution (I guess they need some SEO work).

That said, MDN practices should not require its readers to go scrambling for 3rd party software to protect them from this intrusive, and abusive form of advertising. Banners, skyscrappers, tile, boomboxes, interstitials, and roadblocks are all forms of advertising that I can accept and even value. I know it takes time and money to keep a site like MDN running. I don't begrudge the advertising, I begrudge the spewing of buried windows-- especially the truly abusive audio versions. MDN can make a decision tomorrow to show their readership a modicum of respect and turn them off.

"...and the appropriate way of doing this, where it feels like there's value exchange"

Can someone tell me what value I get out of this so-called exchange?

I want to hear a song,,,but it is prefaced by..."Itchy Crotch? Buy our anti-yeast infection product" or if I want to watch a video, I get...."If you are not using Metamucil, you will get cancer and DIE!"

Its enough to liquify one's colon.....

May 20, 08 - 07:59 pm Comment from: Macintosh

I use Safari v 3.1.1 and I see a pop under appear and disappear almost instantly once in a while. Is that what you are complaining about? Or do yours actually stay there?

The only setting I have enabled is the simple "Block Pop-Up Windows" from the Safari pull down menu.

Hey, Draven, thanks for the Ren and Stimpy flashback.

On topic:

Ads on a social website? Meh.

Ads on my personal music player? I'd hurl the thing off an overpass into the Mississippi. Clearly, the marketing people have taken over at Microsoft, and they ain't just working in the background.

May 20, 08 - 08:04 pm Comment from: iDon't

More Zunes would sell if the MicroSoft was dropped from the product name. I mean it would sell better if consumers did not know that M$ made it. I used one the other day and the music sounded the same. The interface did suck compared to an iPod.

May 20, 08 - 08:07 pm Comment from: Spark

@Macintosh
Yes, I have Safari's "Block Pop-Up Windows" selected and it used to function fine. But advertisers have learned how to get around this with Pop-unders. Everytime I visit MDN I get at least two pop-unders that stay there, and recently they've begun talking at me.

BUT... I just installed PithHelmet
http://culater.net/software/PithHelmet/PithHelmet.php
per Wade's suggestion and it works! Just came back and no pop-ups or unders. Bless you, Wade (and PithHelmet)!

My previous comments to MDN still stand.

I can see Microsoft's come back now

Zune: Hi Im a Zune
iPod: And Im an iPod

Zune: So iPod what are you up to?
iPod: Just buying some songs from iTunes, you?
Zune: Buying NBC programming, and then Im going to wirelessly sync it to my zune! Then Im going to let my friend borrow my song for 3 days, only to realize its gone!
iPod: Good luck Zune
Zune: You need the luck, pal!!!!!
iPod: I think Im going for a jog with my Nike +
Zune: IM COMPATIBLE WITH VISTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

May 20, 08 - 08:43 pm Comment from: Not Bill

Amen Spark. MDN is the worst advertising offender I visit. Those pop ups they keep finding ways to push through are really offensive. El Jobso would do it. Is Egg Ducker stuff.

May 20, 08 - 08:43 pm Comment from: Not Bill

I meant to say Mr. Jobs would never do it.

May 20, 08 - 08:52 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

Once again Microsoft innovates, and Apple is left to wonder what hit them. Ads are the Zune's killer feature that will destroy the junky I-Pod once and for all. I don't know why Apple even tries.

FM, Squirting, Points and now Ads. Apple has no answer to these brilliant and revolutionary features that puts Zune head and shoulders above the rest. I salute you, Microsoft, for a job well done. I didn't know I needed ads until you made them ubiquitous and user friendly. Great job!

Your potential. Our passion.™

"Can someone tell me what value I get out of this so-called exchange?"

I gotta admit, I'm vaguely curious about this.

One of the things about advertising in searches is that I'm looking for information anyway and if the advertising is some way related to what I'm looking for, it's helpful. When it isn't, it's either funny or annoying, depending on the advertising.

(For example, if I'm searching for hotels in San Francisco, I don't really care if someone paid for the link to the hotel website or not. As an alternate example, awhile back I was searching for a bike shop and I got a link to a site selling wedding dresses. My first thought: "For people who love their bikes...a little too much." )

Now, I'm not mister creativity, granted. But I'm really not sure how you would sell ads on a music player. Obviously, they would be related to music, so I could sort of see a "If you like Panic at the Disco, check out the new release from Paramore."--much like iTunes' Store View except on the player.

Maybe concerts? While listening to Paramore or Jack's Mannequin, "Paramore will be appearing with Jack's Mannequin in your hometown on July 30th. Get your tickets at ticketmaster.com!"

Those are about the only ones that make sense and won't be annoying. Of course, the next question is are text ads, audio ads, or video ads? I would think that text ads would be pretty useless--how often do you look at your iPod while it's playing? Video ads? Similar issue. Audio Ads or Video Ads with Audio, maybe if they are less than ten seconds long. Like the above example with Paramore, that might be worthwhile if they can determine venues I'd consider going to. Paramore in concert tomorrow night in Sweden is useless to me, since I'm in Southern California.

I'd be worried about the carpet bombing marketers, though. I don't need to hear, "Buy your <insert band name here> T-Shirts and Concert Souvenirs on ebay.com" between every song.

But I don't see that it has much potential for broad-based advertising.

Actually, I just had a thought! Advertising based on genre!

After the country song: Ads for pick-up trucks, gun-racks, etc.
After the emo song: Ads for razor blades, poison, etc.
After the rap song: Ads for bail bonds, lawyers, etc.

So it might be useful after all!
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

May 20, 08 - 09:07 pm Comment from: Sixvodkas

Bwa

Haha

hahahahaha!

Actually the Zune isn't badly botched. It's just mediocre. It's not so bad that it hasn't sucked a lot of the life out of the non-ipod also rans. MS, unable to compete with its enemy, has instead cannibalized its so-called partners.

Try to visualize Steve Jobs putting ads on, say, the iphone. ooooh yeah, cool new revenue source. Not.

Apple actually does a lot of things wrong and MS does a lot of things right BUT SJ has a laser focus on his END users, while MS sees them as cattle to be sold to Hollywood, IT, advertisers, etc.

Yes, google is essentially an ad sales organization. But google understands that ad-supported products are FREE.

MS, muddled and mediocre can't decide if they want to be google or Apple. They should actually try to be MS... run those legacy apps... fast. They way BillyG would have coded it back in the day. Be the safe corporate choice (compatible, headache free) and the corporations will stay.

But one day Balmer wants to be Apple. The next he wants to be google. And the next day he wants to be google on the device trying to be Apple. The cash piles in anyway, faster than Balmer can waste it. They're the new GM. Too much cash flow to die, but utterly incapable of producing something new, or succeeding in a new market. Every once in a while they'll get an upgrade right.

Microsoft is becoming the test bed of wrong thinking ideas for which Apple will gladly choose not to use....

The Fegg Pucker can't be that dumb; the zune will be free. Or it'll die. As for MDN, this is a free service, even if I see no inline or popup-popunder ads. Learn how to choose and use a browser.

At first I held deep contempt for the egg tosser...now...not so much.

May 20, 08 - 10:30 pm Comment from: ChaseWebb

Why would I want MY personal device to be invaded by the outside world? I listen to my music to ESCAPE from the outside world. Why in the hell would I like to stare at Hillary/Obama knockout ad or a slap the sumo wrestler's belly ad on my media player? My God. I think Microsuck must want to kill their ailing Zune. Why else would you make such a boneheaded idea?

May 20, 08 - 11:06 pm Comment from: Demon

Got to love the clueless and total disrespect for your paying customer. Play for Sure is were the Zune is headed. The Xbox with ads is one thing because gamers understand that the hardware is sold at or in MS case below cost. The Zune because of low manufacturing levels is sold for little to no profit and maybe even at a loss. Ads on the Zune will basically kill any sells that it might have. Who know this move might help MS's partners Creative, Samung and iRiver might start getting a little bits of their market share back from Microsoft. When you partner with the Devil you'll bound to get burned and good.

Ads on your MP3 player.

What a joke.

Might as well buy a $20 AM/FM battery powered mini receiver, plug in the earbuds and listen to ads at a much lower capital cost. They might even throw in the odd song, news report or ball game for free.

May 20, 08 - 11:55 pm Comment from: 7over

Zune Tang, "I didn't know I needed ads until you made them ubiquitous and user friendly."

Far too funny! Keep it up. That was an excellent take.

I read somewhere today that from 2006 - 2007, Microscoff
went from like $200 million internet profit, to $745 million loss.

MDN magic word: "Asshats"

May 21, 08 - 12:34 am Comment from: Ampar

Welcome to the Real Idiocracy.

I think Zune Tang® and ChrissyOne are the same person. I've never seen them in the same room together.

May 21, 08 - 03:01 am Comment from: The Other Steve

Oh look Katie, it's another "value exchange!"

Cool!