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I disagree. People are going to go blu-ray anyway. Whenever you compare a real HD movie on Blu-ray with the "HD" content you download from iTunes, there's no comparison. This is not to say that iTunes movie downloads won't be successful. There's plenty of room for mediocrity in the world -- just look at how many Windows machines there are.

Which is going to look better:

* 2 hour movie in h.264 at 1920x1080 and 1GB file size

or

* 2 hour movie in h.264 at 1920x1080 and 30GB file size

All of you who say the downloaded version is good enough, to be consistent, should also agree that 128k mp3 is good enough.

Sep 30, 08 - 10:36 am Comment from: Jay-Z

If Apple wanted to make major inroads with Apple TV, it should add DVD streaming from your Mac or PC. That would allow people to get rid of their DVD players and replace them with an Apple TV instead of a Blu-ray player (which many people are probably preparing to do over the next couple years). I would think it would be pretty easy to leverage the MacBook Air DVD streaming software if the bandwidth isn't too high for it to be streamed wirelessly.

Sep 30, 08 - 10:38 am Comment from: pastrychef

The only reason why I want a blu-ray drive is to use blu-ray discs as storage media for data.

I think they are missing the true point.

Renting movies on iTunes doesn't help me get wedding videos in HD to customers.

Also Blu-Ray will allow people like me to backup video projects WITH the media!

Sep 30, 08 - 10:43 am Comment from: Tommy Boy

Seriously, the reason I give a rat's ass about Blu-ray is because I can make decent backups on that media and keep 'em off-site.

I could care less about the TV aspects.

Sep 30, 08 - 10:44 am Comment from: yellowhandman

I buy Blu-rays to watch on my home theater systems. iTunes downloads have no extra features or content, and even the HD downloads are not even close to the quality of Blu-rays. But having bought the discs, I also want to be able to watch them on my Macs.

BTW anyone else wondering whether this Gorog fellow is related to Napster's Chris Gorog? That would be pretty funny.

Sep 30, 08 - 10:48 am Comment from: MacintoshSoftwareList.com

Blu-ray shmoo-ray

I desperately want blu-ray on my next mac. And it must burn blu-ray dvds too. My new Sony HD camcorder would be very happy along side it, and it's high time we had it.

I bet they'll announce it within 6 months. They simply must offer it on at least the Mac Pro desktop line.

I own a 52" Sony 1080p lcd tv and Blue Ray does look nice. But I actually watch more items from my AppleTV from itunes and those that I converted myself. The difference between the HD format that I rent on the AppleTV and blue ray really isn't that different. It is amazing how those that pimp Blueray make it out to be the 2nd coming of something. Most people on a smaller flat panel tv are not going to notice a difference nor do they really care. 99% of the population will buy an upconvert DVD player and that will be enough. My parents don't care whether they watch a blueray disc. The leap from VHS to dvd was huge. The leap from DVD to Blueray not so much. People that watch HD tv (particularly over cable and satellite) will see about the same quality as they rent off of Itunes. The quality of cable and satellite HDtv ill only get worse as their bandwidth is eaten up by more and more HD stattions having to cross the same wires. Blueray is not a deal breaker at all.

Sep 30, 08 - 10:53 am Comment from: REALTORben

This guy misses the boat. Yes, there will only be one winner in the HD war. Perhaps he didn't notice, but Blu-Ray is that winner. There are several formats of HD, but only one clear winner in the disc media format, and that is Blu-Ray. Furthermore, blu-ray players can be set up to read (and write) not only blu-ray discs, but also DVD's, and CD's as well. So it's all encompassing.

Adding a blu-ray to the mac and either adding one to the AppleTV or as suggested above, having the capability to use that drive across the network would make huge inroads in the success of both.

Apple would have a clear advantage (well, they already have it, this would just further it) if they added blu-ray drives to mac as a standard before other guys do (at this price point).

Blue ray quality is much better than HD downloads. Not to mention that I buy Blu-ray's for the extra content. I love being able to skip to a deleted scene in the middle of the show where it was deleted from.

I suspect the reason apple has yet to do it is because the slot loading drive that apple likes to use would be too thick at this point to work in the current configuration let alone a thinner one. I think once they can get them thin enough, and at a decent price point, they will pop into the macs and appletv's alike.

I don't think I want to shell out $$$$ for BR movies.
Unless it's porn

Blue Ray is the last of physical media. No one really cares about Blue Ray other than Sony. Upconverting dvd players will be enough for the masses for those that want physical media. Case in point: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9932311-7.html

i think apple is waiting to update their movie production software eg: imove and idvd (probably gonna need a rename) to support bluray just like when they released imovie HD.
it'll come, just when apple does their whole pr thing

Sep 30, 08 - 10:59 am Comment from: rocklebee

it's all about bandwith. can bandwith delivery increase fast enough to really make blu-ray not matter?

Sep 30, 08 - 11:01 am Comment from: the other steve jobs

i can't get my high quality HD media to people today because I have to give it to them is at least 2 formats - i make the obvious H.264 files, but then i have to also make the WMV files. On top of it, i can't go anything past 5 mbps or else the files are just so damn big, no one can download them.

I want Blu-ray because I shoot at 35mbps, and i finish off at 35mbps and damnit, it want to deliver 35mbps because it simply looks twice as good as DirecTV HD and 10 times better than upconverted DVD.

Go watch Planet Earth on DirecTV HD and then watch the BluRay. There's simply no comparison between HD at ~5-8 mbps and 35 mbps on the Blu-ray. Scenes of flocks of birds and animals are so badly compressed with the DirecTV, its hard to watch

To say that nobody cares about Blu-Ray is like saying in 2000 that nobody cares about DVDs. It's the next evolution of physical media. The discs can hold more data for backup purposes, and you can burn high-definition movies to them. Why is any of that a bad thing? The drives may be a little pricey, but as prices come down, you WILL see them built into more and more computers, especially Macs. The fact that you can get HD content over the internet is irrelevant.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:04 am Comment from: ElderNorm

My 2 cents. I would like to see Apple support BlueRay and even offer a BR drive for an additional charge.

That way you can read, write, and watch from a BR disk on your Mac system, but since the little computer screen is not really going to show any difference, its only major advantage is for large storage files. And with video, this is a real advantage.

I just do not see the real push (especially in these times) for moving everything to BR format. Slowly over time I see it being the default system but not really for download. Not until the digital pipeline is a whole lot bigger.

Just a thought.
en

Sep 30, 08 - 11:05 am Comment from: TheConfuzed1

Who cares about Blu Ray? I do.

Digital downloads may be the future, but physical media is still the present, and I want mine to be as high a quality as possible.

Until it becomes cost effective to download full 1080p HD content, and own the massive storage requirements to keep it all, Blu Ray will continue to be a viable option.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:18 am Comment from: Wingsy

Who cares about Blu-Ray? Not me. Even though I've got a 47" HD LCD, it's just not that much better than regular DVD to appeal to me. Reason is, my vision at 15' starts to fall off and I never wear my glasses to watch TV so Hi-Def is naturally downgraded to DVD by my eyeballs.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:21 am Comment from: thethirdshoe

Blu-Ray never had a future.

You'll be using some sort of flash type memory card, dirt cheap, with 1000+ times the storage.

I like to call them "Spock" cards, available in many tasty colors.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:25 am Comment from: flappo

blu ray is finished as the future is ssd and ultra fast downloads and this is from a sony bravia / ps3 owner

who wants to rummage around on their shelves , hoping to find the film for that special moment when they can just spotlight search their appletv / mac and watch the film at a similar quality ?

remember the vhs vs betamax wars - ultimate quality didn't win out , convenience and market penetration did

it will be the same this generation

Sep 30, 08 - 11:27 am Comment from: MikeK

@Quad Core

"I think they are missing the true point.

Renting movies on iTunes doesn't help me get wedding videos in HD to customers. "

--------------------------

How many of your customers actually have a Blu-Ray player to play those wedding videos even if you could give it to them in that format? I'd be willing to guess, very few.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:28 am Comment from: cptnkirk

Currently I don't even own a DVD player. I use my Mac connected to my TV.

When I go to the Video store, there is only a very limited selection of product on Blu-Ray. It's like thinking about getting a colour tv back in the early '60s when only Bonanza and Walt Disney were in colour. Not worth the cost.

Blu-Ray will be adopted when there is critical mass. The price/value ratio has to improve much more still.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:31 am Comment from: G4Dualie

All of you who say the downloaded version is good enough, to be consistent, should also agree that 128k mp3 is good enough.

The crap coming through regular cable television is "good enough" and HD viewing can't compensate for the crap coming out of hollywood, nor does it make the loss by your team any more tolerable. HD sucks real good, ya know?

blu-ray storage is where it's at. If I want high-def entertainment, I go to the movies.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:31 am Comment from: Macintosh

Blu Ray for storage makes sense...

One thing that nobody mentions when discussing this is the overall design of Apple's media system. Besides maintaining their dominance with iTunes downloads, using iTunes gives the user complete control (once the library is completely stocked).

What's more empowering to the consumer? Driving to a store, setting up a DVR to record, or just downloading what you want to watch on the spot? The future is going to be downloading, and Apple will lead that. The hardest part of this transition will be getting used to choosing what you want to watch from a list of everything, instead of choosing by what's on this week or what's in stock at Blockbuster.

They'll need to make ad-supported content, so we can get it for free and hit "shuffle" for those times we just want the tv on as a background distraction.

On the design of an Apple Computer... They want to eliminate almost everything that requires a port, cable, or disc. Just look at how intense they are when it comes to the removal of buttons. They are obsessed with getting rid of things. They envision nothing more than a smooth, contoured rectangle and nothing more. The iPhone is the closest thing they have to their ultimate design goal... I bet the Macbook Air is the computer of choice at Apple (but maybe a 15" version).

I not only want a Blu-ray player/recorder, as a professional photographer I need it to archive my work. It's not just about movies.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:33 am Comment from: MikeK

"Blu Ray for storage makes sense..."

------------------

But does it really?

You can buy a 1TB drive for less than $200 at OWC. How much would the equivalent storage space in BD media cost?

A lot more.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:35 am Comment from: MikeK

@HD Boy

"I not only want a Blu-ray player/recorder, as a professional photographer I need it to archive my work. It's not just about movies."

------------------

Archiving you work on an external drive is much cheaper and more space efficient.

i think blueray should be an option on the next mac pro and macbook pro because professionals and even semi-professionals need/want the storage size for burning data to a disc. me as a consumer see no advantage in blueray. itunes movies look as good as from dvd (and renting them is much more convenient) because my 2 year old 42" plasma can only show 720p. when i buy my next (bigger!) full hd-tv in 2-3 years hd-downloads from itunes will probably have a higher quality then they have today hence i will say the forbidden words: good enough.

but i would see a niche for blueray in comsumer-tech, which are the home enthusiasts who want to have the latest and greatest, the best picture quality available (laser disc anyone?). certainly a market but surely not a mass market.

I'm with the anti-Blu Ray camp. I've got a large enough DVD collection and a sharp enough picture using an upconverting DVD player on my 42-inch screen that I won't ever bother making the switch. I'll wait for broadband capacity to catch up and feel good that I'm not contributing more to the waste inherent in physical media. I can understand why Blu Ray may be needed in pro machines just from a storage and client file delivery standpoint, but I don't see a pressing need for the average consumer.

When Blu-ray players sell for 149 and less, is when I will buy one. Getting close, $229 at COSTCO. But, put one in an Apple TV and I would get one to replace my current one in an instant, even if more $$$.

I want blu-ray now. I want it to watch the blu-ray films I buy on my laptop. I want it to edit high-def video. I want it for storage. I want it for many reasons. Ever rent a "HD" movie via Xbox or some similar service? The quality can't touch blu-ray. Not even close. Portability is also a huge issue for digital downloads. Besides, in the discussion about the future of home movies what's lost is how much people like building a movie collection and displaying it on their shelf. We're conditioned to do so – and will continue to do so. Iron Man arrives on blu-ray today. Can't wait.

Sep 30, 08 - 11:47 am Comment from: MikeK

A 25GB BD costs about $25

http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/Search.cfm?Ne=5000&Ntt=Blu-Ray&Ntk=Primary&Ns=P_Popularity|1&N=7334

A 1TB hard drive costs roughly $200


to get the same amount of storage in Blu-Ray discs you will spend about $1000.

Again,

1 TB hard drive = $200
1 TB storage in Blu-Ray discs = $1000

So how does Blu-Ray for storage purposes make sense again?

Sep 30, 08 - 11:56 am Comment from: Demon

We need Blu-Ray Data burning to back-up our Media Files. Standard DVDs and even DL DVD just don't cut it. I need Burnable DVD (optical) that will hold Gigs and Gigs of Data like Blu-Ray Discs or better.

Sep 30, 08 - 12:01 pm Comment from: MikeK

@ Demon

I'm trying to understand why you and others think BD are necessary for storage? Why not just back up to a hard drive? It is about 10x less expensive, and takes considerably less space. It would take 40 physical BD discs to equal the storage of a single 1TB hard drive. See my cost breakdown in my above post.

Sep 30, 08 - 12:03 pm Comment from: ecrabb

@MikK,
So, what will be your story in two years when you can get blank BD media for $2 apiece and that same terabyte of storage costs $80?

What are you going to do, write your HD videos you create to hard drives and give people the hard drives? Sounds great.

Hard drives are also very convenient to pack and ship (NOT!).

Also, have none of you ever had a hard drive fail? I have... several. OTOH, I have hundreds of CD-R archives I've written since the early-90's, and practically ALL of them still work perfectly.

Hard drives for archiving? I'll pass.

It seems like some of you are incapable of thinking BEYOND today.

Sep 30, 08 - 12:05 pm Comment from: flappo

i'm with the ssd camp

imagine 20 blu rays on a credit card

imagine NO LONGER

Sep 30, 08 - 12:13 pm Comment from: MikeK

@Ecrabb

In two years BD won't be $2 a piece and hard drive prices consistently fall as well..

BD will never become a standard like DVD so even if you backup to BD chances are clients will generally not have a player to play those files on.

And yes, a single TB hard drive is much easier to pack and ship than 40 physical BD discs.

Worried about hard drive failure? Well you can get a 1TB hard drive and 4 additional backups for the same price as one copy of BD media.

And actually I am thinking of beyond today, physical media is dying, digital media is the future.

You are the one stuck in today's tech.

I agree with Mike here. Blu-ray is just a stop gap format for the ultimate demise of physical media. It will all just be digitial files in a few short years. FIOS is rapidly being deployed by AT&T;/Verizon and others.

Blu-Ray may have a purpose for a very short while, but hard drives/ h.264 files and the internet are where were headed very shortly.

Blu-ray is, and will remain a niche market. There are just to many other options and ways around the expensive tech, that most consumers will never adopt the format.

Sep 30, 08 - 12:31 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

@disagree
I think I am better off spending my money on a better pair of glasses, because, if I am not right in front of the TV set, I can't tell the deference, and I certainly don't watch movies standing right in front of my TV. File size is files size, compression can be detrimental, but it can also be efficient.

CD/DVD are dead. Jobs already said this. See iDVD. Move on.

See MobileMe. See MacBook Air.

Sep 30, 08 - 12:39 pm Comment from: The Dude

I am tired of waiting for a Blu-Ray player, or even drivers to make it play on my Mac... getting a PS3 for the kids for Christmas... and that will solve the Blu-Ray problem for me.

I wish Apple would stop dragging their feet on the internal drive, or at least some drivers that would let me add a drive to play off of. I thought the DVD player in Leopard was going to do Blu-Ray... but I have read no articles about that happening.

The Dude abides.

Sep 30, 08 - 12:57 pm Comment from: NCIceman

lol downloading content may be the future, but not until we all have gigabit ethernet to our homes. Downloaded content in a timely manner is a ways away from true HD 1080p images, which look AWESOME btw.

Besides, I'd like to be able to burn blu-ray discs also. So I say go for it, Apple.

@NCIceman

1 letter, 3 numbers.

H.264

Sep 30, 08 - 01:26 pm Comment from: grh

I won't even _think_ about buying another Mac until one arrives with Blu-Ray inside.

@the dude
Make sure you check Sony's website for fireware updates. Take care of that before you use the device: ergo Sony BD players.

Who is this Ray anyway? Who cares who blew Ray, jeez.

Please put Blu-Ray in Macs, downloads wont come to replace physical media for years, at least let us have this for a few!

"Who is this Ray anyway? Who cares who blew Ray, jeez."

Ray, is Mac and Tasha's friend.