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Steve wins, game over!

Mar 15, 08 - 09:28 am Comment from: ron

Game's not over till the fat 'old lady' (Balmer) swings.

it sure looks like Apple has won, and in this era they have in personal computing.

But I still feel something biting my hair, when it comes to the lack of competition.

I have a gut feeling that acer, asus, hp/compaq are getting together to create a new operating system that is seperated from Microsoft. Is it really that hard? Not really, they have so much cash, and theres so many Software engineering students whom have completed courses in OS ... but end up twiddling their fingers with fixing up bugs from a website written in Java, and being paid penuts.

I'd probably bet on HP doing it first.

> Redmond's convoluted APIs, COM, OLE, and ActiveX still make developers shake their heads

It even makes the heads of the people who created the crap in the first place spin.

Mar 15, 08 - 09:52 am Comment from: Forrest, Forrest Gump

I think that, more than competting with Microsoft, Apple competes with itself.
To compete with others leads to be barely better than competition. Compete with oneself leads to be better every day in every way compared with oneself, so it pushes up always.


Apple: Good fruit company

Microsoft: Shit happens

And that's all I have to say about that.

Mar 15, 08 - 09:54 am Comment from: Zune Tang®

MDN, how do you find this nonsense? This guy is obviously blogging from a psych ward in Cupertino. 97.5% of the world's computer users remain super-passionate about using Windows and for good reason. Developers have been generating fantastic software built around Microsoft's meticulous, friendly and open tools. Who's gonna write software for the 2.5% of proprietary expensive computers out there?

Microsoft won, Apple lost. Now we can move on to how the Zune will destroy the I-Pod.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Mar 15, 08 - 09:57 am Comment from: Forrest, Forrest Gump

Lieutenant Dan got me invested in some kind of fruit company. So then I got a call from him, saying we don't have to worry about money no more. And I said, that's good! One less thing.

@bioness,

Does that mean we're going back to the days of Radio Shack computers, and every maker doing their own OS?

My gut feeling is, if there are any new desktop OSes, they'll be from China. Both as an attempt to prove their coding prowess, and to separate themselves from the American-headed systems.

Mar 15, 08 - 10:18 am Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

That's it man, game over man, Ballmer's fscked!

Compete with oneself leads to be better every day in every way compared with oneself, so it pushes up always.

Not always. Look at some select automakers for a case in point.

Bad the notion you just gotta deploy the same vehicle, as several models across several brands, into the same competing market segment. Oh, then offer deep incentives to move these vehicles. WTF?!? It's like Apple from the Performa/Centris/Quadra days.

Maybe the key is to compete with yourself, while not competing against...

Haha, Bioness, you make me laugh.

Is it really that hard? YES. Yes it is.

Mar 15, 08 - 10:27 am Comment from: Hm...

Well, now. A little game-changing platform that's really OS X at its core. Maybe corporations will finally get it that IT droids don't know best. Users can find the best tools and bring them in.

Mar 15, 08 - 10:30 am Comment from: Rip Ragged

The only way Apple doesn't win is if Apple quits. If another company doesn't build the whole widget there can not be competition with Apple.

In order to respond to an Apple innovation, all the other hardware and software companies have to get ideas out of committee, into each others' committees, out of each others' committees again and then start a response. While they're winding up to throw their punch, Apple changes the game to baseball. When the others all agree on a starting pitcher, Apple will be on the green with a six-footer for birdie. By the time the rest of the industry figures out what game to get ready for, Apple will own tech.

Apple is the only company building the whole widget. If you're the only one doing something, you have no competition. Apple has to compete with themselves. There is no one else willing to get in the game.

"I have a gut feeling that acer, asus, hp/compaq are getting together to create a new operating system that is seperated from Microsoft." - Bioness

Apple strategy has been planned for a very very long time, and they certainly are aware of what you wrote. They have a way around it:

Apple domination will be the same as in music. Remember, as the competition is trying to catch up, Apple "is not sitting doing nothing" as was saying Oppenheimer.

By the time the competition comes with their solution, Apple will be release the second generation of iPhone and iPod Touch. Not to forget a larger version of iPod Touch that includes eBook and handwritting.

What Apple is currently doing with those portable devices is very BIG. It's the future. And you can be sure, they won't make the same mistakes as in the past with the Mac.

Mar 15, 08 - 10:33 am Comment from: Forrest, Forrest Gump

@clunker

"Maybe the key is to compete with yourself, while not competing against..."

Stupid is as stupid does.

Mar 15, 08 - 10:35 am Comment from: Rip Ragged

Oops. Forgot to mention. Vista Sucks.

Mar 15, 08 - 11:01 am Comment from: since1985

bioness said: "I have a gut feeling that acer, asus, hp/compaq are getting together to create a new operating system that is seperated from Microsoft. Is it really that hard?"

bioness, you need to read the whole article. The first section is entitled "It's the libraries, stupid!" wherein the writer states ""It is not the language, but the libraries that matter. Every time I hear developers talk about a new language and say it is by far the best one, I just shake my head. A new language is not going to be usable in today's world unless all of the libraries are in place."

He goes on to compare Apple's "secret sauce" as being its software, a well-oiled machine. "While others have been inventing new languages and frameworks, Apple kept perfecting and building up its code." ... "In general, over the years Apple has ignored new languages and just stuck with its platform. Smart, disciplined and mature."

Mar 15, 08 - 11:07 am Comment from: DogGone

@Bioness - you kinda forget that OSX is based on BSD. That took 20 years to refine. Full blown OSes are not straight forward.

Back in 2000 when OSX beta was released, I knew then Apple had something special on their hands. Raw yes, but so much potential.

I tried to convince a Linux fan of the advantages of OSX in 2001 but he didn't get the advantages of having a good GUI and Unix together.

The evolution of Quicktime and their apps like iTunes etc have no competition. Everyone else is literally 3 years away and have no chance of catching up because Apple can develop software at a much faster pace.

The same goes for the iPod and iPhone. The war is not over it's just starting.

Mar 15, 08 - 11:14 am Comment from: Woody

@ ron: Game's not over till the fat 'old lady' (Balmer) swings.

Ballmer's a swinger?. EEEEEeeeeeewwwww.

Mar 15, 08 - 11:14 am Comment from: since1985

MDN: Great to finally hear that take. You've been good about always reminding us about Michael Dell's shut-Apple-down-and-give-the-money-back-to-the-investors quote and Steve Ballmer's iPhone-won't-get-any-market-share-no-way quote, that I've been wondering if you ever iCal'ed Bill Gate's steve-jobs-must-know-he-can-never-win quote given to Robert X. Cringely (but never published).

That quote riles me up the most and reveals so much about both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs.

Lately, every article I read about Apple's success and progression in the marketplace and the rave reviews of their hardware and software, that quote is forefront in my mind. The gauntlet was thrown down by Bill ... Steve Jobs seems to be good about making one eat his own words.

Mar 15, 08 - 11:20 am Comment from: ken1w

Apple has won the "mindshare."

It'll take a while longer for that to translate into market share.

Mar 15, 08 - 11:39 am Comment from: Mister Snitch

The thing abut Microsoft was that users pretty much had no choice. They bought into it because it was the only game in town, and then found they were trapped by a monopoly. Apple, by contrast, is entering a field filled with competitors. If they somehow were to become the only game in town, it would be by sheer merit. It's not as if there are no other players, and it's not as if they don't see Apple coming.

Zune Tang, "97.5% of the world's computer users remain super-passionate about using Windows " Yeah, umm Zune Tang, I don't think that is correct. The number Windows users that are Super-Passionate is a lot smaller. Zune Tang, saying something like that you lose credibility and look foolish. I use both, I use both every single day, both systems have good points and bad, BUT, in general, I work on the windows side because I HAVE to and the Apple side because I WANT to. The Apple OS seems a lot more polished. That is just my observations, but I consider them probably more valid than any of yours because I actually USE both on a daily bases and am proficient at both.

As I have said before, Zune, if you want to play games, get a girlfriend....they play WAY more games and a lot more fun than anything you will on a computer.

@Bioness

No chance. Not one in a million. The better, and more realistic chance is that M$ adopts Linux. And if that happens then say goodbye to that platform.

Oh and to the other guy..."China"?!? You gotta be kidding, right? There's a better chance of M$ adopting Linux than for ANY group from China producing a viable OS from SCRATCH!

LOL...absolutely nothing "original" has come out of China since the fork and gunpowder...unless you consider Copyright Infringement "original"! 'nuff said!

Mar 15, 08 - 12:27 pm Comment from: Spark

Zune Tang scores another victim. ZT, you are like a spider. Spinning your little webs and waiting for some unsuspecting moth to fly into it and start wriggling. Great sport, but I can't believe you haven't tired of it yet.

Mar 15, 08 - 12:30 pm Comment from: marko

@Jim

Zune Tang is a regular here... He pops in every now an again to represent the unabashed and tormented world of windows... with sarcasm. We love the guy... its a joke.

Mar 15, 08 - 12:35 pm Comment from: AAPL

sorry to inform the vast majority of you Apple does not want Micosoft to "lose"

It wants its fair share of the game it created say 10% will do .....

thanks

Ballmer's a swinger?. EEEEEeeeeeewwwww.

No, swing. As in hung. By his Yahoo.

sorry to inform the vast majority of you Apple does not want Micosoft to "lose"

What happens when MS loses from its own folly?

Heh maybe Jobs will appear on a MS video screen and announce a stock deal.

Mar 15, 08 - 01:02 pm Comment from: gagravaar

Why do you think Apple doesn't spend their cash-hoard?

They're waiting for it's rise, and the market value of Microsoft to inevitably fall, so they can buy Microsoft outright.

Once bought, he'll merge the 2 OS's (read - delete Windows and replace it wholesale with OSX).

That is SJ's plan, the ultimate humiliation of Microsoft and everything they stand for.

It'll probably take the best part of 2 decades, but it will happen.

After that, SJ will open source the whole OS and then gladly retire, safe in the knowledge that we'll then be well on the way to the Star Trek future we've all been working towards.

You heard it here first.

Mar 15, 08 - 01:16 pm Comment from: Rip Ragged

Zune Tang is my hero. Nothing more validates a Zune Tang rant than someone questioning his credibility and credentials.

Some day we'll unmask ZT and find Phil Schiller. Maybe on the same day.

Mar 15, 08 - 01:35 pm Comment from: Cubert

Zune Tang! I can't believe you forgot "Suck it MAC dorks"!

Sheeeesh.

When Apple reach a certain figure, probably around 15%, it will be over. The M$ monopoly will be dead.

At 15% market share, they will be worth about the same as Micro$oft, because they make the HARDWARE too.

Add in the phone, the ipod and maybe some new 'enterprise' moves and thats all they will need to 'dominate'.

Windoze will continue to decline, say 3% per year.
Puts them around 75% within 5 years.

At that point, the monopoly is finished and the game gets interesting.

Once a decline is rolling, its hard to stop.

I dont think Apple will get to 90% - I dont think anyone will ever do what M$ did - people are too smart now to fall for all that crap.

Computing is mature, the game is different. The iPhone is the way.

A new OS? Maybe Linux will finally be fixed by a commercial group, like HP and others. Certainly the Linux geeks are not going to do it - they actually believe desktop computing on Linux is ok - even though its like buying your car with no doors.

Writing a new OS will need a new discovery in processors, or some new impetus.
Where is that going to come from in a very mature, somewhat stagnant market?

Anyway, Apple IS the new impetus, it is the new OS.

At last, its changing. The world is no longer held hostage by the Borg!

Freedom!

Mar 15, 08 - 02:09 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Poor ol' Gil. I still think callin' the guy a dumbass is kinda harsh. I think he just got in over his head.

Mar 15, 08 - 02:13 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

"Zune Tang, saying something like that you lose credibility and look foolish."

I want you all to just look at that line, and read it a few times.

There, see? I made you smile.

At 15% market share, they will be worth about the same as Micro$oft, because they make the HARDWARE too.

At what point does Ballmer freak, again, and this time attempt to buy a major PC maker? You know, "embrace and extend" what Apple does...

Should make for great entertainment, as MS will already be short of cash after the Yahoo takeover. Gotta wonder how far Ballmer would deliberately dig MS into debt.

MS's worst enemy is MS. Apple's just making good business amid the wreckage.

Mar 15, 08 - 02:15 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Suck on that, MAC dorks.

Mar 15, 08 - 02:25 pm Comment from: Rip Ragged

Um, ChrissyOne ---

Don't you have to be a dumbass to get in that far over your head? Sometimes harsh is true.

Poor old Gil.

Poor ol' Gil. I still think callin' the guy a dumbass is kinda harsh. I think he just got in over his head.

Agreed. Gil inherited a mess worse than anyone expected. Kinda like the poor sap who'll get the MS reins after Ballmer...

Anyway, I challenge the naysayers to propose how they would've done things better/differently than Gil did. And no, buying NeXT and passing everything to Steve and Avie doesn't count; you have to do this yourself.

I'd hate to know where we'd be today, had Apple pressed on with Classic or Copland, or bought Be instead.

Mar 15, 08 - 02:32 pm Comment from: Ampar

"You know, 'embrace and extend'"

You left out extinguish. A vital component of the MS business strategy. The trail of decomposing competitors and former partners is evidence.

Don't you have to be a dumbass to get in that far over your head? Sometimes harsh is true.

If you we're nominated to Apple's top job, would you accept and give it your best, or would you decline because it was too much for you?

Apple isn't the only company that rotted from the inside out. By the time the stench gets to the top, it's usually too late.

Mar 15, 08 - 02:45 pm Comment from: Rip Ragged

Interesting question, that. I'd take it, I guess. Okay, maybe dumbass is too harsh.

But Gil is definitely in no need of sympathy.

Mar 15, 08 - 03:04 pm Comment from: Ampar

If you want to place blame, Sculley and Spindler were far worse than Gil Amelio. John Sculley tops the list. I'll bet he still has the taste of Bill Gates in his mouth.

Gil Amelio wrote the whitepaper on Apple's strategy that Jobs is executing now. Apple was in a horrible position back then and Amelio tried to make things work out. Hat's off to good work by Jobs; keep up the good work.

"Never start a fight. But ALWAYS finish it!"

Capt. John Sheridan
Babylon 5

For companies that want to make their own operating system: It is very hard to do so. It is easier to develop hardware than good software. It takes decades of development and updating to create a good operating system - particularly a mature one where a lot of the bugs are ironed out. This is why Apple has such a large lead on other manufacturers. This is why other manufacturers are trying to use Linux or some other off-the shelf OS - where the source code is open. The problem is that the code is not theirs. The original code has limitations to work around such as with drivers in Linux. Thus a lot of work still has to be done to make it workable. Yet it won't have the high level features of OS X.

Taking advantage of dropping hardware prices, Intel expects to plug its newest Atom chips into desktops that will be available later this year from under $200.

Intel expects an Atom chip, code-named Diamondville, to be used in fanless desktop computers designed for basic tasks like surfing the Internet or viewing standard-definition DVDs. The company expects the systems to be priced in the $199 to $250 range.


________

$249 Mac nano anyone???!?

Mar 15, 08 - 05:49 pm Comment from: Macromancer

@ChrissyOne

I'm just impressed that someone spelled the word 'lose' with just a single 'o'.

I keep saying they should have named the iPhone the "Mac Mobile." It is much more than a phone, it is a portable Mac with a phone capability.

Sorry everyone. Gary's leash really needs to be fixed. Anyhow he's really nice once you get to know him. Oh, gotta go!

GAAaaaaaRrrYYYyyyyyyy!! Come on boy! Come on!

Upwards of 95% of Windows users have absolutely no awareness of stories like this and they absolutely don't care and would never consider switching to a Mac - still seen by them as a toyish alternative to a real computer.

I know of what I speak - I'm surrounded by several hundred of these people every day at the office. If you say to them they are using an OS-limited platform, they just look at me like I have just spoken some kind of nonsense.