MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Feb 22, 08 - 09:05 am Comment from: wannabe

"Mac OS X sells for $129 even if you're not upgrading."? What the heck does that even mean? You can't buy any version of OSX licensed for any machine that doesn't already have it.

Feb 22, 08 - 09:08 am Comment from: Cubert

"is almost like asking someone to move to another country," Senitra Horbrook writes for South Jersey News Online."

Sorry, but New Jersey IS another country - one filled with slutty bleached blondes, clueless drivers, and people who are physically and mentally incapable of making left-hand turns.

Ultimately, as much as anything else it's the fact that by and large people are idiots.

It's not just in respect of computers, we're all guilty of it to some degree. We all buy crap we don't need, eat food we shouldn't, drink too much, etc.

More people have Windows PCs owing to Apple immense failure with Lisa. This single event launched the Windows-based PC as the computer of choice as Apple struggled to regain lost ground. It has been the same story ever since.

MDN. Please fix the link to the article. It only points to MDN.

ALSO, Please consider noting if the site that an article resides at will allow comment. If I cannot comment, I usually do not want to go there. Why bother? But if I can comment, I may want to comment to the author vs their article.

Thanks.
Happy Friday.

EN

Feb 22, 08 - 09:12 am Comment from: Cubert

@wannabe,
What are you talking about??? You can buy Leopard and install it on machines that didn't come with it originally. The price is $129 whether you are upgrading from another version of OS X or even OS 9 or earlier.

Her statement in the article is just pure sloppy journalism.

I believe it is the price of Macs compared to PCs. Some folks are not wanting to spend a $1000 when they can get a PC for much less. Added to all the compatibility and no software lies it makes folks scared to spend so much on a Mac.

Feb 22, 08 - 09:14 am Comment from: Cubert

@en,
I just hate when you have to register with a site just to read the article.

Feb 22, 08 - 09:17 am Comment from: Jocko Flocko

The failure of the Lisa had nothing to do with masses of ignorant consumers buying PCs. The Lisa was marketed toward business market.

Feb 22, 08 - 09:19 am Comment from: Jocko Flocko

@ M.X.N.T.4.1

"Ultimately, as much as anything else it's the fact that by and large people are idiots"

ROFL, I couldn't agree more.

Feb 22, 08 - 09:19 am Comment from: Zune Tang®

Why has Apple historically had such a difficult time selling the superior Mac to the masses?

The MAC doesn't support the Zune. These days that's the main reason people don't buy MACs. Microsoft's ubiquitous music player combined with Zune Marketplace gives users a hassle-free experience syncing the world's number one music player with their beloved WMA content. Apple, take notes. And Vista is just like a MAC.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Too expensive!!!!!!!!!!

Windows users want to be able to tinker around with how their interface looks because they want to make it look more like a Mac. Go figure.

And ... YES ... even on the Mac there are hacks that allow people to adjust how their interface looks. More Dinosaur and Saber Tooth Tiger arguments! UGH!

MDN Magic Word: clearly ... as in "Clearly this boob didn't do any real research before sitting down to write."

Feb 22, 08 - 09:22 am Comment from: HolyMackerel

Why don't these articles ever quote the retail price of Windows? $399 for Vista Ultimate. $129 for Leopard. Simple.

@Cubert,

I think you are describing southern New Jersey, pretty much everywhere from Newark, south. Bergen County and north are mostly ok except for a town here and there. I say this as someone who grew up there and turned out just fine thanks very much. Also, drivers in MA where I live now are far, far worse for the most part.

"The MAC doesn't support the Zune. These days that's the main reason people don't buy MACs."

Hilarious, thanks!

The MAC doesn't support the Zune. These days that's the main reason people don't buy MACs. Microsoft's ubiquitous music player combined with Zune Marketplace gives users a hassle-free experience syncing the world's number one music player with their beloved WMA content. Apple, take notes. And Vista is just like a MAC.

LOL ... Zune Tang ... you're always good for a laugh! Thanks for the consistent satire!

Answer: Price.

it's not so much her that's ridiculous, it's that tool she's quoting. her entire article is basically his quotes strung together.

Computer, display, OS X, keyboard, mouse, iLife, iSight, (Apple remote, built-in microphone, built-in speakers) = iMac = $ 1199

Very reasonable

flavors.....ha are you kidding me!

They're not flavors, with the different versions of vista.... thats bullocks.

If i went to an icecream shop, the flavors i get are, banana, strawberry, chocolate ...etc

Windows vista is like;
imitation chocolate icecream, imitation chocolate with 5% real chocolate icecream, icecream with chocolate frecks in them and up to the double choc icecream(the ultimate version).

Vista versions are not unique to each other, the lower versions are blander and more limited than the upper versions. How can a baboon call this flavors?

Feb 22, 08 - 09:44 am Comment from: wannabe

Cubert, buying Leopard and "installing it on a machine that didn't have it originally" is called an UPGRADE if any previous version of MacOS came with the machine.

"Upgrade" isn't a function of the software on the disk; it's a function of the license that comes with it. When you buy a non-upgrade version of Windows you have the license to install that software on any computer, whether it was originally sold with Windows or not. Apple retail OS licenses are exclusively upgrades.

Feb 22, 08 - 09:47 am Comment from: OBill-Wan Kenobi

It never ceases to amaze me, the crap people are willing to put up with from their computer. I always give them the car analogy: "If your car gave you as much trouble as your pc, would you keep it or find a better a car?"

People are lazy and cheap. They don't want to have to deal with a learning curve on a new OS and they actually believe that a $400 computer is just as good as a $1000 computer. I trouble shoot a lot of people, professionals mostly, and those two reasons are the most common given for not switching to a Mac.

Well it's like I have said before: People are hooked on cheap, low quality boxes pre-loaded with Windows that they can buy at Wal-Mart and other big box stores.

When the thing breaks they just junk it and buy another just about like it and start the cycle again.

My first cousin was hooked in that cycle and grew tired of that buy and junk and took my advice and bought an iMac.

He's very happy now doing all kinds of things that he could do with his old PC.

What's strange too is that I noticed is many people will pay for an expensive, high performance PC, pay for a lot of ad ons (anti virus, ect.) when they could get a Mac for cheaper and get more for their money.

Same thing for businesses and institutions.

Feb 22, 08 - 09:51 am Comment from: OBill-Wan Kenobi

And what's up with the f-ing stock price?

Dell Whatever:
360Gb HD
5 USB Ports
$699

Apple Compared:
250Gb HD
2 USB Port
$1199

Couple that with the perceived lack of software.
What the heck do we expect Joe and Jane Walmart to conclude?

• Before anyone picks apart the numbers there, it's just for illustration to make a point. In a side by side comparison (in the consumer space) the Apple product almost always loses.

Forget the stuff inside, the masses look at what's on the checklist. Are we supposed to wonder every computer store explaining to people that Apple computers have more built in goodies? Apple won't do that themselves, expecting folks to just find out by osmosis.

Apple:
You MUST MUST MUST get a clue about this.
The expensive MBP does not even have a SD/CF card reader built in - even as an option, but one of its primary audiences is photographers! The cheapo Dull cruddy 8 lb laptop takes SD, CF, MemoryStick, MSD...

The MacBook Air: Fantastic engineering, ONE freaking USB port and a 80Gb HD?!?! Are they nuts?
In BusinessWeek, the side by side numbers comparing it to the new Lenovo was embarrassing to read.

I know I'll get some flack for this. But guys, my son just yesterday had a buddy ask why he should buy a Mac when on paper it looks like half the machine with a third of the warranty for twice the price.
(Yes, I know, genius bar, iLife, BMW vs Ford... I know all that stuff)

Eager to hear your thought on all this.

Macs are great but the biggest reason is price. A person who simply wants a computer to get online and email (and that is a majority of people) will look at an imac at 1199 and a Dell at 399 and get the Dell. Most people don't care about Apple or Microsoft, they care about money and what they know. That is simply why people buy Windows machines and not Macs

OBill-Wan Kenobi is right. I see the same sort of thing every day in mixed environments (Mac and PC).

My motto: I don't do Windows.

Life has enough headaches as it is.

Cubert is right too: NJ is a whole 'nuther country!

My favorite experience with a pure Mac Hater went something like this...

"Mac's aren't 'real computers' "

I asked him to clairify that... he said that they don't do 'real work.' Again, I asked him to define what he means by real work...

he then stammered and said, "Um... uh.... they don't play games."

SO -- "REAL WORK = PLAYING GAMES"

nuff said. this article is full of bullshittery. they should have had a Mac expert in there as well.

Why has Apple historically had such a difficult time selling the superior Mac to the masses?
Partly because in 20 years, they've never changed their marketing strategy for the Mac OS. They rarely - if ever market the abilities of the OS. They prefer to sell the mystique instead of the reality.
They should kick Chiat/Day to the curb and get a advertising firm that focuses on tangible assets instead of shallow, cosmetic appearance.

...clueless drivers...

Er, that would be all of America, not just NJ.

Apple only has difficulty selling its computers if you compare it to Microsoft. However, that's a bad comparison. Apple is really a hardware company that integrates its own OS into its products. If you compare it to Dell, Gateway, HP, and so forth, Apple isn't having any trouble at all. It's doing great.

Apple is more concerned with making profits for its shareholders than it is with world domination. Steve Jobs said as much.

Apple isn't interested in selling commodity computers. Businesses are very interested in buying commodity computers. Libraries are very interested in buying commodity computers. School writing labs are very interested in buying commodity computers. Etc. Etc. Etc. Windows-based PCs are ubiquitous and very few people can escape learning at least the basics of using one (and for Windows machines the basics unfortunately ends up being quite a bit...). 99% percent of Macheads that know as much about using a Windows PC as 99% of Windows-only users.

There is a limited population that see the value in learning a second operating system, just like there is a limited population that sees the value in learning a second language when there is a dominant language that 99% of the people speak. I really like Janacek operas and I would be able to have a new level of appreciation if I learned Czech, but you know what--on the balance I'll stick to reading the English translations.

That's why Microsoft focuses not on making Windows perfect for any task, but rather just "good enough" that switching seems too much of a pain to be worth the effort and conversion costs.

It would seem that the average consumer would rather pay $1200 in nickels and dimes rather than pay it all up front. Except that they fail to take into account the time and aggravation of upgrading a cheapo machine.

He "forgot" to mention that Windows Vista costs $400 if you're upgrading.

You're right. But this game isn't about lowering prices to become the market share leader. It's NEVER been about that. Apple is ridiculously profitable and successful with a different strategy.

Joe and Jane can stay at Walmart. They can drink Bud lite and wonder why anyone would pay 3x as much for craft beer. They can eat at McDonald's and wonder why anyone would pay top dollar for a real, properly aged, grass-fed steak. They can go to Vegas and wonder why anyone would go to Spain or Italy. They're a different market segment. One you don't necessarily have to appeal to.

Feb 22, 08 - 10:05 am Comment from: elgruga

Screw Joe and Jane Walmart - they only want the computer to keep the kids quiet while they are doing crack.

In other news, I hear that Microsoft are about to announce that the Zune is to be discontinued.
The Zune division will be closed in the summer, the Zune marketplace will stay open for a while until all subscriptions are timed out and thats all she wrote.

Feb 22, 08 - 10:08 am Comment from: GizmoDan

Jason--

If all they want is email and the web, buy an iPhone! It's less than $699.

Jason, it's like OBill-Wan Kenobi said about the $400 and $1000 computers.

Now look at this way…is a $400 TV as good as a $1000 TV?

Which one would rather have provided you had the good sense to know the difference?

I have seen people spend a couple of grand on a TV for their living room and then ask me about their crummy $300 Dell they have in their office.

I tell them I don't know anything about Windows and they should get a Mac.

It's like some one posted earlier, they say they don't want spend the money on a Mac and (or) don't want to learn another OS.

Truth is they buy another throw away box every couple or three years, upgrade Windows, virus protection and such, spend money on tech support.

They don't realize that they spend the money anyway and they they have less to show for it!

As for me I just turn on my Macs in the office or the field and they just work.

Every time. No virus, no spyware, no problems.

I can be smug about it because it's true.

Now that's what I call Real Intelligent Design.®

Or iPod Touch for $300

Feb 22, 08 - 10:14 am Comment from: OBill-Wan Kenobi

Good point Radius. That's what I try to convey to my clients. I have one particular client who is a divorce attorney. He has a small practice (the hottest staff I've ever seen - I don't know how he gets any work done) and makes a good living. I'm at his place every couple of months or so to prop up his aging pc's and every visit I ask him if he's ready to make the move to Macs. He says he doesn't want to spend the money. I tell him, "you already have and then some, every time I walk through the door..."

The Zune is dead? Can this be true?

Wanna know why PC users have a hard time switching to Macs?

Look in the mirror! You're the one who labelled a positively intentioned intro article as 'The full amateurish, ignorant article'...

Your remark, Mr Smarty Pants, fit your description to a T. This report of yours is FULLY AMATEURISH AND IGNORANT.

Get a life.

Whatever platform has been adopted in the workplace will continue to have a substantial impact on consumer buying choices. Considering the possibility of using different platforms at home and work, the perceived complexity of computers suggests that learning a different system will be a chore. And some uncertainty persists about whether documents created on one machine will appear as intended on the other.

The iLife and iWork suites help diminish the influence of the platform selected in the workplace. They are marketed not just a products unto themselves, but demonstrate that the Mac will be personally useful, delivering what is not done as easily or as well elsewhere.

Feb 22, 08 - 10:37 am Comment from: F1Mikal

My grandma-ma always told me that there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

The masses don't buy what is best.
The masses buy the best that they can afford.

END OF BLOODY STORY.

I don;t want something that everyone else has.
Give me something special.
Everyone doesn't have an Aston Martin right?

stop bitchin boys n girls.

my 2 cents /2 p

Feb 22, 08 - 10:44 am Comment from: jjjj

If Apple is serious, at some point they are going to need to pull the consumer crossover trigger. Their lowest price MacBook, a wonderful machine, has remained at $1099 for almost two years now, though yes, it's been bumped up a bit.

Apple needs to decide when to strike the public's mind and reduce this machine to $899 or less. Every college kid should own one. Apple may have lost that halo window from the ipod/iphone press, I fear.

Feb 22, 08 - 10:46 am Comment from: Rip Ragged

No understanding of a topic is required to write about that topic. It's why the print media are on their way down the toilet. And it isn't just tech.

The same goes for any topic on which reporters are called to discuss. I have worked in the nuclear power industry for 30 years. There is no such thing as a "radiation leak." The term is utterly meaningless. It is an invention of Hollywood science fiction writers and has no scientific foundation whatsoever. Yet, if a nuclear power plant is reported to have had a fist fight in the parking lot, somewhere in the article will be a reassurance that there wasn't a "radiation leak."

I have no sympathy for the writer. If you're going to write about a subject without understanding it, you're going to get your a$$ kicked.

The switch is ONLY FROM Windows to Mac.

THAT is what people need to focus on - and ask why...

Well look at yourselves. You are blame. People are sick of this bullshit smugness and flat out lies you people spread. You don't even bother, nor Apple, show what makes Macs superior. Look at their commercials. More smug BS.

Simple answer, because each version of Windows has always been "good enough" for Windows users.

Vista just isn't "good enough".

First off, I'm a die-hard Mac head, but I can see where Apple messed up, early on, where Microsoft did everything right.

First off, the first personal computer users weren't artist types, they were accountants and office people and Microsoft worked hard at getting word processors and spreadsheets out and even to develop their own bundled software with their OS.

Then they came out with stuff like Microsoft Access which you can do your own programming. DOS was always a system where you could easily do your own type of programming with knowing C or other programming knowledge. However, that has left Windows owners vulnerable to home-made computer viruses too.

Granted, Mac OS X has some great Unix features and anyone with some Unix knowledge, can now get their Macintosh to dance around and do anything that they want. But, that's a new development. The Mac now has some great professional office type of programs, but that's just a recent development.

Microsoft has been around for a long time and has a pretty big food in the door of business applications. People still think of the Mac as that computer for the artsy people instead of a computer system that has evolved into a superior OS.