MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Jan 19, 08 - 01:16 pm Comment from: Ampar

Props to Linux Guy And Mac Prodigal Son.

Lots of reasons... I think the persistent Mac PC tv campaign has been hugely successful in getting into general publics mind that Mac is better.

Pogue blew it with his "expensive proposition" phrase.

By now, he should have known better. Clearly, he was thinking about his deadline and not his story.

Jan 19, 08 - 01:24 pm Comment from: IKON

Fact is with the move to intel, you don't loose your investment in apps.

I think that is the real key.

Jan 19, 08 - 01:35 pm Comment from: gagravaar

A lot of the PC press and IT pro's misjudged the legions of the great Windows unwashed.

When faced with the true choice of Mac or PC a lot of the PC geeks, who for years, have been recommending PC over Mac for nothing more than childish, misinformed reasons still recommended Windows, time and time again.

They would say, "Don't choose a Mac, choose this PC I can make for you that runs the latest Microsoft OS (95, 98, 2000, NT, XP). Yes, we know it's got it's problems, but I'll be here to help you if anything goes wrong.'

And of course it did go wrong. But they were there to help, and to say, 'Don't worry, Bill Gates' next OS will solve all your problems, just you wait.'

Well, that excuse has now been used far to often. The great unwashed were too ingrained in Windows to make the switch to Mac before IntelMac, so I do not blame them for not switching.

However, now they can switch, and still use Windows, and 'try out this Mac thing, and if they don't like it they can still use Windows.'

Well, obviously they do like it - a lot - and this has seriously p*ssed off a lot of Windows diehards.

Now were seeing these Windows diehards panic. Hence the FUDometer has gone up and will go up higher from now on.

The great secret is, is that Windows dominance has survived for this long, from a surprisingly small number (in comparison to the total number of users) of these WIndows diehards.

It won't be long now until we see the tipping point, were starting to win over the PC users, and the diehards don't like it one bit.

It's great isn't it?

For some, part of the cost equation might be the comparable cost of NOT switching.

Jan 19, 08 - 01:46 pm Comment from: LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon

The great thing about this article is the comments section. It might take hours to read all of the comments, but well worth the effort. It answers the question, "Why are they switching?" And the answer seems to be; for many diverse reasons. Don't get too hung up on a few flaws in Pogue's assumptions, such as higher Mac cost.

We have passed the tipping point.

Jan 19, 08 - 01:52 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

Surging?

Where? The only place MACs might generate some interest are among the pretentious, smug elite who like to waste money on overpriced proprietary toys that can't play games. Count me and 97.5% of the population out.

Pogue is dripping with smugness when he mentions "the cool-looking, virus-free one." Whatever. Windows enthusiasts don't stoop to such ugly statements and behavior. The superiority or the Windows platform speaks for itself. In 7 versions of magnificent Windows Vista. Suck it, MACtards.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Jan 19, 08 - 01:54 pm Comment from: qka

Investment in peripherals?

Unless it's an old printer with a parallel interface or a keyboard or mouse with the round PS/2 connector, most peripherals work fine with a Mac. Also, OS X probably ships with the needed driver installed.

Jan 19, 08 - 02:09 pm Comment from: IKON

@Zune Tang: lovely post once and again, but …
you what comes after denial.

Jan 19, 08 - 02:10 pm Comment from: LorD1776

"Suck it, MACtards."

Sounds like somebody needs a hug.

"Apple Mac"?

Apple Macintosh or Macintosh or Mac OS X ("10") even are better worded.

:: shiver ::

Jan 19, 08 - 02:13 pm Comment from: shen

"Pogue blew it with his "expensive proposition" phrase."

i don't think he meant to imply that buying a Mac is more expensive than a PC. rather i suspect he meant that if you have thousands in PC only hardware and software, buying a Mac feels expensive because of the perceived value you are throwing out.

"It’s still an expensive proposition to switch platforms once you’ve got an investment in software and peripherals."

that is, however it may be understood by others, an accurate statement.

Jan 19, 08 - 02:42 pm Comment from: scott122

Pogue didn't mean to imply that Macs are more expensive than PCs, but rather, if someone is thinking, "I may as well get the cool-looking, virus-free" computer, then he's going to go whole-hog and upgrade to Mac software, too. What good does it to do run virus-prone Windows and other PC software on a Mac? It's still virus-prone. Only by switching to Mac software as well as hardware do you get the entire Mac experience - and that switch could cost money for someone with a lot of software to replace.

Look, I owned a Mac Plus and a Powerbook 145b. In my foolish youth I switched to crummy PC-ville so I could play vids. What can I say, I liked wasting time back in the day. And of course various jobs required the use of the miserable PC

Let me tell you, for the monetarily challenged, switching takes time. The software I've purchased over the years costs thousands. Of course, some of that software wouldn't even be necessary (AV, etc.), but still, how do you justify spending the cash on a new computer *and* cash on all those apps?

So, in short, it takes time. And frankly, XP was a steaming pile, but not on the order of Vista. And, OS 9 wasn't all *that* compelling (I used it frequently at work), whereas OS X and Vista are worlds apart.

So, to sum up:
- Vista blows, Leopard rocks
- The iPhone showed me very clearly what a huge lead Apple has
- Intel CPUs are a game-changer. I can run CoD4, etc., on my mac (yeah, I still like wasting time on occasion)

In the past, IMHO, Apple didn't have the huge lead. A lead perhaps, but not the mind-blowing, obviously unequivocal lead they now have. They've crossed the line of inertia for a great many people.

Jan 19, 08 - 03:07 pm Comment from: ericdano

Name me some peripherals that do not work on the Mac that work on the PC. The only thing I can think of is the Zune. PC keyboards work, printers (HP, Epson, Brother) work. I haven't found anything that does not work with a Mac. Perhaps some sort of cheap thing like a Zune or Zoon or some knock off from China......??

The peripherals may plug into a USB port but the supporting software is hardly ever compatible and the drivers are fundamental at best.

It's about cost of ownership too. With annual or semi-annual cleaning of the PC of worms & viruses and the cost of security software, It's cheaper & easier just to buy a Mac. By the way, lots of that "older" software that you have for the Pc won't run on Vista anyway .

Jan 19, 08 - 03:43 pm Comment from: Cubert

"Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader "Linux Guy And Mac Prodigal Son" for the heads up."

It's about time! Geez, it's been like 2 days since you've gotten credit on an article.

Jan 19, 08 - 03:44 pm Comment from: Cubert

@ericdano,
I agree. I have NEVER heard of a Mac user not being able to just plug and go with any peripheral.

Additional factors are WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage) and the DRM increasingly baked into windows at every level. The nuisance factor is simply getting too high. I'm fed up with software and hardware that have built-in kill switches.

However, Pogue does nail it about the fact that upgrading to Vista is about as expensive in both time and money as switching over to another platform.

I would have switched to Mac or Linux back in 2000 if Microsoft had gone ahead with their crazy scheme of that day, of discontinuing perpetual licenses and going to leased software only.

I switched from Dell to Mac a few months before Leopard came out. Went through all the trouble of putting my XP software on the new Mac and then discovered that the Mac ran all my data files - with the software that came with it and Open Office that I got for free.

3 weeks after switching, I put all my data files on the mac side and blew away Windows just went with OSX.

Wasted all that time. I shoulda just gone with the Mac side and brought my data files.

Happy happy happy to be out of windows. I was like an abused spouse. I didn't know how bad things were until I was free of my abusive Windows husband.

@zunetang: Did you really say overpriced proprietary toys that can't play games"...LOL...

toys..that can't play games... LOL

Jan 19, 08 - 04:42 pm Comment from: It's About Time

Since I create web pages, I need to see what the end result is on the Windows side. So via Parallels 3 I get to hyper-jump over to Windows XP>IE etc.

Scary world over there. Fortunately, I can quickly move back through the worm hole before I'm infected. Glad to live where the Universe operates in non-paradoxical ways.

Yeah, almost everyone overthinks. It's the switch to Intel and boot camp/virtualization. Now everyone who wants a mac (and makes their own buying decision) can get one. That included me last quarter and I (unfortunately) develop Windows software for a living.

Vista is a factor too... but the universe of people who think they can use a mac has dramatically increased.

'overpriced proprietary toys that can't play games'

Yeah, I love that one too.

We all know that ONLY The Real Business Computer™, can play games.



Roger Ebert: ...since any reasonable person would choose a Mac over a PC, Apple's market share does provide us with an accurate reading of the percentage of reasonable people in our society.

Jan 19, 08 - 05:25 pm Comment from: LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon

Let me reiterate my first post on this thread. Read the comments. They are the real story here. They are better than the article itself. They are the reason I sent in the story to MDN .

After much time spent looking into a lot of has been said regarding windows V Mac os X i have the conclusion that many points made by windows user are some what of a contradiction in terms of windows is good for games then why did M/S spend so much on the x box in the long run it can only damage windows as a computer os the hardware business is a very superficial market there a few designs that stand the test of times and as far as i am aware a box is still a box so it makes logical sense to a OS and a Box (all be a nice box) which where designed to work with each other would you buy car made by ashton martin with a engine made by toyota answer no but you would buy a toyota simple terms buy a Mac which if needs be will run windows if you want to play the odd game it will work fine If you want to play lots of games get a console its the only choice Microsoft still sells a os to the mass market (running under os x) Apple becomes the public choice because of ease of use design and more secure and sony and nintendo keep us all playing games everyone wins ...

Jan 19, 08 - 06:14 pm Comment from: silverhawk

Glad to see all the switchers on MDN today. Congratulations and welcome to the bright side!

Jan 19, 08 - 06:17 pm Comment from: BillH

I believe the New York Times is in the midst of running the longest Apple ad of all time...,and... NO bashers. I must be dreaming!

Ding dong the witch is dead
Which old witch
The wicked witch

In December I switched to MAC.

Why did I do it?

1. Bought an iPod a few years ago and got interested.
2. Intel MAC - can run Windows apps - haven't needed to yet.
3 Promise of more stable and easier - very happy to say it is true

I agree - the comments - and the number of them - tell the true story.

Look out PC, your days are numbered...

Lots of things have contributed to the Macs' surge in ownership. I think the Apple Stores have played a large role. Think about it. The Apple Stores are in extremely high traffic malls or streets, where not many tech stores are normally found. Does your mom stop into Best Buy to look at the computers? Nope, not mine, but she did stop into an Apple Store in the mall, because it was so damn inviting. She already owned an iPod, so looking at a Mac didn't seem like such a leap to her. Would she have gone to a computer store before? Not for a special trip, she wouldn't have. Having the Apple Store so convenient in a nice mall made it possible.

Quote :
"Why did I do it?

1. Bought an iPod a few years ago and got interested.
2. Intel MAC - can run Windows apps - haven't needed to yet.
3 Promise of more stable and easier - very happy to say it is true "

My story of switching is EXACTLY the same, even for the fact that so far I didn't have to run any windows apps.

We said we were riding the wave over on macCompanion as we championed the cause ( http://www.maccompanion.com ). And we still are. Sweet!

Jan 19, 08 - 10:06 pm Comment from: Not That Steve

Jobs obliterated each argument against choosing a Mac. Then he got examples of what an Apple product's like to use daily into consumers' hands. Microsoft just tries to make stuff that looks like Apple stuff, it has no identity of its own. The Zune is soulless. Why should 99% of the world continue to use their miserable Windows?

Why the jump? 3 words:
IT
JUST
WORKS.

I switched 10 months ago, and like "Wasted" I shoulda done it sooner. I will say that opening up to the Intel platform is what initially paved the way. My BIOS up and dying in my Dell is what sent me to the store.

I'm a Mac guy all the way, but, unfortunately, I still have to run a Parallels XP VM for work due to all of the Windows-only programs that I have to use. I can't wait for Mac to cross the 25% market-share line so that pretty much all of the major software companies will have to start writing cross-platform suites/apps. AutoCAD is probably the biggest issue, but there are still a lot of others. I'd love for this trend of web-based apps/interfaces to continue (and improve) so that it doesn't matter what OS you run.

Yes, I know that there are plenty of Mac CAD programs, but none of them will read/write .dwg files natively. They all use a kludgey converter/importer. Vectorworks is definitely looking better and better, though.

Don't tell anyone sir. Otherwise everyone will want one.

Jan 19, 08 - 10:58 pm Comment from: ken1w

The reason is a combination of Apple making steady progress in improving Mac OS X while Microsoft releases a dud called Vista after many years of promises. After the success of iPod and iPhone, more Windows users are willing to at least consider getting a Mac as a choice, instead of automatically choosing the least expensive Windows machine. I think being able to run Windows apps on a Mac has less to do with it. After all, the switchers are trying to get away from Windows... Why would they buy a Mac and then run Windows on it?

This a obviously very bad news for Dell, HP, and the rest. Their reliance on Microsoft means ongoing customer dissatisfaction, no matter how good they make their hardware.

Oh no are the Wraith waking up?

Jan 20, 08 - 02:25 am Comment from: MizuInOz

@ ZuneTang®
"The superiority or the Windows platform speaks for itself."

yep - speaks for itself! I am sure you will retort that it was a typo, when WE all know it was a Freudian slip and a moment of stark realisation!

Your Pain, Our Pleasure!

Jan 20, 08 - 02:40 am Comment from: LorD1776

MizuInOz,

I don't recall ever seeing the Zunester make an error like that before. Verrrry interesting.

sex

Kudos for those software houses that offer both Mac and PC versions of each product on the same CD. If enough companies do this (and some already do), a major obstacle in switching would vanish.
After all, in the long run, they may be best served by maintaining some independence from Microsoft's whims.

I was flying to Denver last week and had to watch 2 poor guys with the pc's crash while watching a movie. and it got me to thinking as we were taking off--I sure am glad bill gates never went into the airline business!

I sure am glad bill gates never went into the airline business!

And that would've been close, with Boeing in the WA area!

Speaking of which, are MS and Boeing sharing managers and engineers?? Look at the hopelessly promised and increasingly delayed 787 Dreamliner. It's turning into an aircraft industry Vista.

Wonder if it'll ask the pilot for conformation to do anything...

The tipping point.
Can it be? Could we be seeing the Dawning of a New Era?
I hope so - I really HATE windows.

Jan 20, 08 - 06:32 am Comment from: Ampar

LGAMPS is right. The comments are amazing.

"It’s not one thing about Windows — Vista, bugs, viruses, etc. — but the Windows negative gestalt: complexity, confusion, etc. In so many words, the pain that the Windows world inflicts on its citizens. As more apps become web-bound and with the options to run Windows apps on the Mac, I think that eventually only masochists will use Windows.
— Posted by Richard"

Jan 20, 08 - 07:07 am Comment from: Ampar

"Suck it, MACtards." "Sounds like somebody needs a hug."


Or a canister vacuum cleaner and a jar of Vaseline. (And some privacy.)

Best from the comment section was this:
"I switched because I am getting too old (24) to feel that 4 hours tweaking an operating system (XP, and apparently also Vista) to get a new install to behave “normally” AND stop giving me “are you absolutely sure you want to open this file? No, really? Really? I’m telling you, this file, I wouldn’t open it, are you sure?” messages is a profitable use of my time."