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Mar 11, 08 - 11:47 am Comment from: TowerTone

short answer: halo yes!

Mar 11, 08 - 11:57 am Comment from: shen

"We think the growing network of Apple Retails Stores has also had a major effect on Mac sales; maybe more so than the iPod itself"

maybe?

the store is much more effective than the iPod, and the iPod is doing a good job.

the key, as the rest of the take suggests, is the combination. if you go into the store for iPods and accessories, you look at the Macs...

so if you go in for an iPhone, will that increase companies purchases? i doubt it.

but if you go in for an iPhone, which you can use to get company mail because the CEO has an iPhone and he/she made sure the techs got their asses in gear and got mail working on their new toys....... well, that might help a bit.

and if the bosses kids buy macbooks for school, and the whole family uses them, and then back in the office you wnder why you should have to sit through virus scans and bluescreens....

it will. but it be in a lot of steps. and over a log period of time. and Apple has to stay on top of their game for the entire thing.

....but i think they can.

Mar 11, 08 - 11:59 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

Well, if I create an app for the iPhone, don't I pretty much have an app for the Mac too? A few changes in the UI should be the only difference.

Mar 11, 08 - 11:59 am Comment from: shen

"but it WILL be in a lot of steps. and over a loNg period of time"

out out typos of stupidity!

Why is my MDM Magic Word = "never"?

Why is my MDMA Magic Word "ecstasy"?

Mar 11, 08 - 12:08 pm Comment from: Cubert

"So will the iPhone cause an enterprise halo effect?"

Yes. Next question, please.

Mar 11, 08 - 12:09 pm Comment from: Cubert

@Roberto,
Too damn funny!!!

I think we have to factor in the success of OS X as well as the failures of windows to some degree over the past 7-10 years as well.

"right..." says the MW

Mar 11, 08 - 12:16 pm Comment from: Jay-Z

I don't know about this... Some – not all – enterprise IT staff are rather entrenched in what they know and resistant to change. I will say though that IT, computer science, and software engineering were big majors at my college and most of my friends in those fields own Macs at home. Maybe it won't as much be an iPhone effect as a changing of the guard as these younger guys move up the chain.

Mar 11, 08 - 12:17 pm Comment from: grok

"...well-documented but hard-to-prove 'Halo Effect' of iPods..."

?

Mar 11, 08 - 12:26 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

I think Microsoft is the main drive for the Mac Halo effect. Vista has really had in influence.

Apple has been very wise in loading iPhone w/ OS X. This allowed them to leverage well-developed technology from the desktop world into the mobile world, where it is now becoming a very appealing platform in and of itself.

When Apple builds MS Exchange/Active Sync capability into the iPhone to enhance its enterprise appeal, what it is really doing is building that technology into OS X, which will eventually translate to Apple's computers. That will make Apple computers--especially laptops--more appealing to enterprise as well.

It's just another camel's nose under the enterprise tent.

Let me just say, I am the IT guy for one of the largest car dealerships in the world. I love Macs, iPhone, and iPods. I own alot of all three. However, Apple has huge holes in its product line. The low end laptops don't have Express card slots or screens bigger than 13". Most business users don't need a $2K laptop or the horsepower that comes with it (Macbook Pro). There is no low end desktop. The iMac and Mac Mini are a nightmare to work on and get parts for. The Mac Pro is not for average users spec or price wise. Neither of them offer internal expansion other than memory and disk space. How about PCI and PCI Express cards.
Is Apple ready for the enterprise? Absolutly not.

the halo effect is real - I had only used a mac for 5 minutes in my whole life when I bought one - but my iPod Mini made me want a Mac. I'd never visited an apple store at that time either

Mar 11, 08 - 12:37 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

@ChrissyOne
I am sure you are correct technically, but the purpose of the application might be the driving force behind it's portability. In essence what might work very good for the iPhone would probably not apply very well for the Mac, although I am sure in certain instances, it might be very viable indeed.

Like the samples Apple showed. The medical thing would probably scale very well for the Macintosh, but the monkey game would not be that great a fit, since tilting the phone would probably make the game a lot better on the iPhone. Unless we get a new mouse, with an accelerometer built in.

Mar 11, 08 - 12:39 pm Comment from: MacSmiley

I believe the halo effect is a little more complicated:

(iPod + Apple Stores) — (Zune + Vista) x Windows malware = Consumer Mac Sales

Would it be safe and politically correct to say that all Apple products have a halo effect.
An iPhone app is a Mac app and vise versa. The UI should be different to either be touchable or clickable. Now for other 3rd party ports where you still see the little watch, that is another story.

Mar 11, 08 - 12:40 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

One can only hope - and pray (if you're the praying type). This will be as much up to Apple as it will be to the enterprise market place.

Mar 11, 08 - 12:43 pm Comment from: TowerTone

Well, get ready. Rush just spent over five minutes explaining how Apple came and fixed the problems he spoke of earlier.

He also had a comment about someone who said something in a post on a Mac site about him having a Blu-Ray drive on his Mac.

iPhone enterprise-related SDK sledge-hammers the last nail in the mass-grave coffin of ALL OTHERS INVOLVED IN ANY WAY WITH enterprise electronics.

In the blur of related says, Jobs says cells outsell pods a zillion to one?  THE most sold electro item?

iPhones will, enterprise-wise, NECESSITATE Mac Pro/Air/Book/Pro, iMac/mini, Cinema Display, Xserve/san, Apple Remote Desktop and AirPort Express buys.

iPhone price will tail-spin downwards.

Enterprises will not survive lest Apple IT they have.

@BAC Build yourself a cheap PC box and fluster and muster through your choice of Window's OS and destraught plug and play if expandability is your top priority.

I think as a general rule, the iPhone and the iPod does attract new Mac desktop users. I'm not sure that will hold true for Enterprise users. Here's my rationale:

Unless an Exchange user installs Windows on the Mac so they could use Outlook (by far the best desktop application to use with an Exchange Server), the user will have to use Entourage. While Entourage is adequate, it has shortcomings. For example, tasks cannot be synchronized. In many enterprise settings, tasks are as important as calendar appointments. Similarly, notes cannot be synchronized. Of course, Macs did not natively synchronize Macs until Leopard. And even now, such notes cannot sync with the iPhone.

What Apple has done is licensed ActiveSync in much the same way as Palm licensed ActiveSync. I'm not sure it will work with the same precision as a Windows Mobile device. Bear in mind, I came from years of using Windows Mobile devices to using the iPhone.

On another note, I think Apple's desire to win over enterprise users has led to ignoring one key user base - the consumer who desires over the air (OTA) synchronization with .MAC. So what Apple has essentially said to me is that if I want OTA synchronization, I have to use an Exchange Server instead of .MAC. My only alternative is to go out and buy the Standard Microsoft Office and use Entourage if I don't want to install Windows.

So, in the final analysis, I don't know that the hardcore enterprise user will go out and buy a Mac just yet. Though it offers an unequivocally superior platform and an astoundingly better user experience, until the desktop version of the OS offers good synchronization with the Exchange Server, I don't the iPhone will provide a good enough basis for enterprise users to switch to Macs.

Cool!!! iPhone will force AT&T;to force Microsoft to release Halo 3 for the Mac!!!! Yahoo!

That has the same chances of happening as...the iPhone providing a Halo effect in big business....Middleware!!! Middleware!!! Middleware!!! Once Apple makes Mail, Address Book and iCal Servers we can talk halo.

Just my $0.02

Any company that wants to use iPhones in the enterprise will be forced to buy at least one Mac for administration of those phones, so yeah, this will automatically get Macs thru doors that have previously been sealed shut.

Mar 11, 08 - 12:59 pm Comment from: TowerTone

Ray
I guess they are 1/3 the way there
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/features/ical.html

Mar 11, 08 - 01:01 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Hate to agree with BAC here but I think he's right. Sort of.

There are already some enterprises which are adding minis or iMacs, but for the vast majority I believe a more "entry level" expandable Mac would fit nicely.

I'm not sure if this will happen or not, maybe never. Apple hasn't really indicated any strong desire to participate in the low end cut throat segment of the computer market, so perhaps this is just not in their cards.

Oh yea! There is a connection. It has brought the Mac into the household as students want to streamline their software and professionals alike. As for housewives, not so much, but those students will grow up, and if the mac keeps on ticken', well them, you will see a paradigm shift of minor proportions.

http://ThunkDifferent.com

Since Apple had the foresight to make the SDK run on Macs only, virtually any business using iPhones will have no choice but to buy at least one Mac.

"I think Microsoft is the main drive for the Mac Halo effect. Vista has really had in influence." - Mac Nugget

I cannot agree more, but with only the first part of your statement. Microsoft has been the driver of Mac sales since the releases of Bootcamp and parallel. Lots of people still use Windows on their Mac. That's the truth of the matter.

Now to this day's question, I gotta answer "No way". Apple is too expensive for the corporate world.

Mar 11, 08 - 01:33 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

RC: "Any company that wants to use iPhones in the enterprise will be forced to buy at least one Mac for administration of those phones"

This might be true for batch configuration of hundreds or thousands of iPhones. You can already individually manage iPhones from Macs or Windows PCs.

Mar 11, 08 - 01:36 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Mac+ "Now to this day's question, I gotta answer "No way". Apple is too expensive for the corporate world."

The Mac mini is too expensive? Granted it might not be the exact form factor that businesses want to purchase, but simply saying "too expensive" is a bit shady.

Does every business that buys a PC buy the very cheapest bottom of the barrel PC hardware because it's cheaper? Is cost the *only* factor that enterprise looks at when they buy Windows PCs?

I doubt that's true.

Mar 11, 08 - 01:41 pm Comment from: TowerTone

Is it more expensive when a newspaper can buy one model of a computer (iMac 20") to put on everyones desk that handles all the Windows needs and also the ad layouts and editing?

they are doing it at my girlfriend's job, and corporate wide at the other papers. Of course, she hasn't got hers yet......

Mar 11, 08 - 01:45 pm Comment from: Buster

they are doing it at my girlfriend's job, and corporate wide at the other papers. Of course, she hasn't got hers yet......


There is a joke in there somewhere my young padawan....you just have to look for it.....feel the force....ummmm....the other force.

Mar 11, 08 - 01:53 pm Comment from: Olmecmystic

"Will Apple's iPhone have an enterprise halo effect for Macintosh?"

What kind of question is that? Of course it will; that's WHY they're DOING it. The last remaining holdout for massive Mac adoption is the enterprise. Consumers are choosing it like crazy and have been for the last 8-12 quarters. How does Apple keep it going and even ramp it up?

The iPhone is the ultimate Trojan horse for the enterprise, especially since the SDK announcement and demo. With 100,000,000 reasons to allow the Trojan horse into the middle of the village (enterprise), the death of the villagers at the hands of the (Macs) assassins is imminent.

Personally, I can't wait!

Peace.
Olmecmystic

Mar 11, 08 - 02:01 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

@twilightmoon,

Uh... No - It's definitely true. But here's the clincher: What happens next is that over the next six months they will [and by "will" I absolutely mean WILL , as in positively] respend, dollar for dollar, what the machine costed in the first place, (i.e., upgrading it so it will minimally do what it was originally purcahsed to do, or as I've seen so many times, it will simply get replaced with another new cheap computer) - over the next 12 to 24 months they will spend an additional $600-$2000 on that machine (and that's in addition to what I've already stipulated above) keeping that machine running when you include the very real cost of having a full time IT pro constantly down at our desk constantly spending his/her expensive time (and yours) getting the thing to do what it was purchased to do.

This is absolutely no exaggeration - at all. I've seen it first hand over and over again. It's absolutely the feakiest thing that happens in the cost-conscious enterprise, work-a-day world. And if that reality doesn't leave your head spinning, how about this for a camel-back-breaker - At the end of the day they proudly go home congratulating themselves that they didn't have to buy a Mac - which, by the way, and being very kind to the Windows hardware, would cost the company less than one-half to own and operate month by month, year by year. Two Windows boxes next to two Mac boxes, operate both going full steam for 12-24 months, and by comparison, the Macs literally pay for themselves.

Believe me, it's absolutely true.

Mar 11, 08 - 02:18 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Mr. Peabody: "At the end of the day they proudly go home congratulating themselves that they didn't have to buy a Mac - which, by the way, and being very kind to the Windows hardware, would cost the company less than one-half to own and operate month by month, year by year."

Corporations that run like that don't deserve a Mac.

Mar 11, 08 - 02:24 pm Comment from: qka

@BAC

How about PCI and PCI Express cards. (sic)

What about them? I've worked with Macs in the enterprise, and never missed them. It seems to be a FeeCee geek thing about needing "expandability".

Your points on lower cost, lower featured Macs being needed for the enterprise I do agree with. What features in existing models would you suggest be eliminated in order to reduce the price?

BTW, were you writing this at work, on a FeeCee, with no built-in spell checker in the browser, or are you a fake Mac fan, mouth breating FeeCee troll?

Mar 11, 08 - 02:53 pm Comment from: gzero

Ray and TowerTone:

Actually, Apple is 2/3 the way there:

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/features/mail.html

Mar 11, 08 - 03:27 pm Comment from: TowerTone

gzero
I saw that, but I don't know enough about enterprise (other than the captain...) to know if that qualified as a mail server.

Of course, this may count for the Address Book
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/features/directory.html

-kinda.

peabody

If I was you I'd look for another job, because your IT people are morons, The executive management of your company can't be too swift either. I've been in IT for 30 years and I've never seen anything close to your fantasy, probably because a business with so many clueless people would close quickly. IT staff congratulating themselves on going another day with out installing a Mac? Right.

Apple isn't in the enterprise because they've chosen, wisely I think, not to enter that segment at this time. It requires different support than the consumer market, is lower margin and would suck resources from the wildly successful strategy of the last few years.

The idea that more than a few enterprise CEOs are going to slam an iPhone on the IT director's desk saying make this work is also a stretch. The majority of people at that position would ask if it would work, and if not, what has to be done so it would. Apple's SDK and active synch announcements make it a lot more likely these little jewels will be showing up in boardrooms.

Mar 11, 08 - 05:28 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

@sus

For your information there is nothing fantastical about my real-world observations. If you've been in IT for 30 years and never seen anything close to what I've experienced then you've been been working in veritable isolation. I have worked one on one with IT Pros for about 28 years now and the only exception to this rule has been in the one company that was almost exclusively Mac - and in 28 years I've had four employers, all in the broadcast industry (except the all-Mac house).

Our IT people, up until very recently, would walk through the Macintosh part of this operation bragging that "...we don't do Macs...", until our Director of Engineering finally asked them to cease and desist, especially since we just keep getting more Macs in spite of their complete and non-negotiable unwillingness to do their jobs - completely. In 1990 and 1991 respectively I requested that my desktop computer be a Mac and I was told, face to face, by the IT person responsible for our department, that it was not possible to hook Macs up to the network. Even not being a IT Pro myself, but having to work with them, I knew he was not telling the truth - and that he knew it, which was later confirmed in a discussion between myself and his supervisor.

And I could go on almost endlessly with first hand experiences just like this one. Obviously, just because most IT people are clueless does not mean that all are, and I'll give you that. And I certainly look forward to living in a world where all corporation IT depts. look with cold objectivity at the desktop purchases... but until then all I can do is --- well, wait and look forward to it.

Sure the iPhone will have some enterprise halo effect but since the 'enterprise iPhone' needs Windows products (Exchange + ActiveSync) to enable the features I think one should keep expectations low.

Seriously. How about some work on OS X server to give Apple customers these capabilities on their iPhones.