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isn't that what SP1, SP2 and SP3 was for?

Yeah, and if you believe MS security is better, I have some WMDs in Iraq to sell you.

Umm... haven't they ALREADY issued a virus fix even before it's been released?

Does anyone, even the staunchest Microsoft fan actually think that this project will really be worth the wait and the ridiculous amounts of money that must have been wasted on it? Even if you prefer windows over OSX (crazy I know), you have to agree that Apple seem to get far better bang for their development bucks.

Jim "Baby Face" Allchin says buy da Vista or else you aint SAFE!.

Believe it or not a lot of people will buy this line and buy Vista. A great many people think that Windows is all there is and that the security problems that they have with Windows is part and parcel of all computing.
But you can best believe that Microsoft will copy Mac OS X as much as they can, claiming that they invented such features themselves. Or at least giving the impression that they did. As for the security, that's something we'll have to see about.
IF it is secure, or at least somewhat secure, a lot of people and businesses will buy Vista because it comes from Microsoft and will possibly run on their current machines.
MDN has it right again. However I HATE to come to this site and stare at ads for Windows Small Business Server 2003.
My God, this is a Mac News site! The shame of selling out!

I think so many in the Windoze world view Macs as toy computers and the viruses and such are just part of life for a real computer. They are sick!

Don't begin to tell me they really believe WIndows will be virus free with Vista? Earlier I sent the message below and it'll be the same with Vista...

"Please be aware of the latest Windows virus -Nyxem-E- for which you should urgently update your virus definitions and scan your computer before the 3rd February deadline for its payload. It is scheduled to delete Word, Excel and other MS Office files as well as Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Photoshop files. 300,000 PC's are thought to be infected to date via email attachments (had one recently entitled 'Funny ' for example?).

And, when you next consider a new computer, I promise that you will save many unhappy hours if you move to an Apple Mac and take into account that:
-There are no viruses for Apple Mac computers since the secure and stable ‘OS X’ operating system launched in 2001. Even Microsoft Office on a Mac is not affected by the virus below.
-The spam email we all receive is mostly sent via PC’s that have been infected by a virus and which are then remotely controlled by spammers or worse. Apple Macs on the other hand can’t be controlled remotely - without your express permission.

Time to say cheerio Windows and hello Mac.."

Uh, isn't this the point where Joe McConnell is supposed to show up and tell MDN to "lighten up" or "switch to decaf"? Joe Mc has been showing up in this forum for years and has been a Windows Apologist for as long as I can remember. He hates it when his favorite platform has been attacked, so he usually offers useless tidbit comments like that, as if somehow it's MDN's fault that Windows is such a worthless POS operating system.

C'mon Joey Mc - show us your true colors yet again. Come in and make a worthless comment about MDN and its readers. But maybe one day tell us what you don't like about the Mac.

Long ago Joe Mc told us that he'd buy a headless iMac if they made one. You know, an iMac that didn't tie you into the all-in-one so that he could just use the box, but use his own monitor. Something in the $500 range, he told us. Hmm, sounds like the Mac Mini. Did you buy one, Joe, or were you yet again blowing smoke?

Windows for security. Wow, that's rich. Maybe he should try his hand at writing a sitcom or two in his retirement. He obviously enjoys a good joke. He probably says that MS innovates too. Gosh, my sides hurt from laughing so much.

Well, don't be so hard on the poor guy. He's their big OS chief and he hasn't had a popular release in what, 10 years? XP never took off like they hoped. He's probably afraid of getting a pink slip next year if this new OS doesn't take off either.

And it's true! It is safter than the previous version. But it doesn't take an Einstein to understand all things are relative.

You can be safER with Vista, or SAFE with OS X.

Er...Jimbo....Joe McConnell did buy a Mac mini. Last time he mentioned it, he was going to put it on eBay because he said it was too slow.

I told him not to. It's a great machine....for Linux

Anyway, if the clan McConnell is around today, how about an update?

New Contest.

Apple has not had a good advertising campaign since 1984.

The Switcher ads did nothing but tell corporate America that Macs are for
drugged out girls that giggle.

We need to help Apple! I know there are plenty of creative people who owe their businesses to Apple.

Lets get going on telling the PC Windows world that there is HOPE!!
We need to reverse the lies that they believe about the Mac - ie. Not Compatable with anything Windows.

Mike

And as an added incentive, all purchasers of Vista will receive coupons towards time shares of several New York water-crossing transportation landmarks, some prime vertical real estate in New Mexico, and choice acreage in south Georgia and north Florida suitable for houseboats.

Bishop Pontification: "Buy a hooker for celibacy and to lower the risk of panties disease."

As a backup strategy, MS is secretly preparing tens of millions of Xbox units preloaded with Linux as an alternative to Vista.

Vista = Security
OS X = Security Risks !

Yes, I know the Apple community will promote the concept of "less" viruses on an Apple computer. However, we in the "real IT world" are terrified of placing any Apple products on our secure networks. Apple's are a ticking time bomb! There are no libraries of viruses or enterprise tools available for rescuing OS X workstations after they are infected.

The only sensible thing to do is prohibit Apple hardware from our networks.


©

And spend your hard earned on Vista so you help Bill look good giving it away to the latest cause of his choice.

..so there IS a good reason to buy Microsoft products then.

Sputnik: Terrified yes...but only terrified that users would see there is a much better way...

Sorry I can't respond too often I'm trying to learn how to get on the net with this Sloooow Mac. Maaaamy!

Buy Vista for the security. Sure thing. And on the way home, I'll buy a pack of cigarettes for the vitamins!

The current Mac mini is too slow, I just sold mine and picked up a iMac Core Duo. Now that is definitely more like it. Once the Mac mini moves to Intel I could recommend them again, but not as they stand now with the G4 inside. Even with 512MB they're quite sluggish. The new iMac on the other hand, flies by comparison, even with the stock 512MB, although with 1GB or more it really shines.

"they are just going to feel safer and more secure by using it."

Yes, they'll 'feel' more secure...but will they be more secure? I highly doubt it.

And Spudnik...yes, people in the "real IT world" are terrified of putting Macintoshes on their 'secure' networks...terrified they'll also be putting themselves out of a job. Just admit it already. (yes, I know it's just someone posting sarcasm, but I had to say it.)

Mike, you are so right! Apple's not had a decent ad campaign since 1984! The company keeps shooting itself in the foot over this issue!

i agree that most 'doze lemmings think that, not only is 'doze the only os in the computing world; but that viruses, trojans, spam, etc, are "normal" and "expected". i love the AOL commercial with the "leader" informing the "unwashed" that broadband allows attack to "come at you faster"; and that the one solution is to have AOLs "security software". i chuckle, knowing that the currently only real solution is to "get a Mac". of course, the IT weenies would never consider that. (my sister, when once offered a Mac, asked: "does it run windoze"?)

"Windows Vista. Because Misery Still Loves Companies."

OS X 10.5 Leopard should ship with a box of Wet Nap Towelletes. The complete solution for the unwashed masses. Don't forget to clean behind your ears.

I remember the year or two leading up to XP's release. The big buzzword wasn't "security," it was "stability." And delivered a huge improvement in stability with XP (especially over WinMe). Time will tell if Vista actually delivers noticable differences in security.

MDN MW- "perform" as is will it perform as promised?

As much as I hate to admit. Biz will spend billiongs on Vista despite that it will have as many security issues as XP. Too many consumers don't know any better, have too many expensive Windows app, and Apple's lack of advertising will ensure that Vista will be a hit.

Anyway I will continue to enjoy my Macs. So long Jim. Don't let a virus hit you on the way out.

If there are Windoze users out there that haven't learned anything over the past few years, and if they decide that Vista is going to be their next great OS, then as Mac users we should LET THEM HAVE IT and wait for the converts. We all know MS sucks here, so repeating it over and over again gets a little boring (except for some).

I'd rather read about Mac news.

If you want a good fight, take the comments to CNET where there are real Wincrap users to argue with

Whatever. My Windows XP is fine. I didn't use any virus software or firewall for a year while using a cable modem, and when I finally downloaded a copy of Symantec antivirus corporate edition, I found that I had zero viruses. It's all about whether you use Firefox and Thunderbird (like I do) or whether you use IE and Outlook (like people with viruses do). Of all of my friends who use Windows, none of them have ever had a virus. Them again, all of them are programmers who know better than to use IE and Outlook.

OH HOW CUTE!
Sputnik is back!

Idiot.

Hey, I don't know why you believe Vista will not be more secure. I went a whole 20 minutes before I caught my first virus, which was a much better record than the 13 minutes it usually takes under XP. I think MicroSoft is finally going to deliver everything I've come to expect in an operating system. Vista rules!!

Sheesh, users shouldn't have to buy a new OS to be more secure. If MS wants people to buy Vista, it should refund the money people spent on XP. Talk about arrogance.

Interesting Nick, but I find it very hard to believe, My landlady just signed up for cable internet and before she could even download Firefox she had a virus and now can't get back on. She is finally taking my advice and getting a Mac.

Here's an idea for the Mac creatives, videopodcasting all the best features of OSX. Not sure how it could/would work, but if podcasting is a wave that's growing, let's try to catch the crest.

"The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste."

Maybe. But good taste is relative. What is in good taste in one culture could be in very bad taste in another.

On the other hand, I believe that the only problem with Apple is the Mac Cult. I've said it before in another thread - when I heard that Apple was ditching MacOS for a Unix-based system I thought it was the best move they ever did and began looking more positively at the platform. But then I made the mistake of visiting Mac user forums such as MDN and realized that in no way, shape or form would I want to be associated with such a virulent and obnoxious user base.

You fanboys may believe that you are going to end up on top of the world. Well, keep on believing. And when the hungry hackers from the former East Bloc, India or China eventually penetrate your beloved OS's defenses I will be cheering them on and hoping they delete everything on all of your hard drives.

Just keep on doing what you are doing now, fanboys. Just keep up the good work...

Vista's got a CLOCK!!! A CLOCK!! we're sunk.

I love parody and satire this article is hysterical, bravo.

Oh wait, you mean this guy is serious? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

FUDsucker Proxy:

I suppose if you set up a Windows XP compuer with pre-SP2 and stuck it right online, you would probably get hit with a virus that takes advantage of one if the ancient RPC attacks. That is the big catch with Windows viruses - installing old versions of the OS with none of the patches from the last couple of years, then plugging into a network will get you in trouble. In that regard, Mac OS X does in fact offer security through obscurity, since nobody is bothering to run Mac OS 10.2 attacks round the clock (and yes, there have been many critical security updates to Mac OS X since 10.2).

Surely I'm not running the same Windows XP that everyone loves to bash here. I don't use antivirus or anti-spyware apps, I have a cable connection to the web, I never turn off my PC, and I don't have any of these virus or stability issues that everyone seems to talk about. No reboots and a single program crashes MAYBE once every 3-5 weeks.

But then again I know how to use Windows. And I always do my day to day work on a regular user account instead of the administrator account.

And yes, I do use IE and Outlook. And I haven't had a single virus for the 4 years I've been using XP. How do I know? I have periodically installed apps such as Adaware and norton AV.

They never find anything.

Besides that, as much as I like my Mac Mini, I can never fully migrate to it. OS X is nice but feels sluggish overall. And Visual Studio does not run on OS X. And I'm a big gamer. And I love C#. And its so much easier to find development resources for Windows than it is for OS X.

I am in the Vista CTP program and have been testing out the Betas since it was called Longhorn with the Plex interface concept. The latest build is really good. I am very much looking forward to it, and the release of WinFS shortly after Vista goes gold.

What do I like best about OS X? It keeps MS on their toes =)

Anim8r

OH HOW CUTE! Sputnik is back!
Idiot.

sorry to have to point this out BUT... you obviously dont "get" sputnik. you have to read closer.

if, on the other hand, you believe him to be a troll you are the idiot for feeding him.

Ariel,

Mac OS X should feel sluggish on a Mac Mini; those things are extremely crappy. They have 166Mhz busses and memory (motorola never made a proper DDR controller for G4) and 4500rpm laptop hard drives. The older minis only came with 256MB RAM. Ugh.

I can't wait for Apple to rev the mini to Intel hardware, I'll buy one immediately.

Buy Windows Vista for the security . . .and iodine for the taste. And a Lamborghini for the mileage. And egg rolls for low fat.

You really should buy it for the amazingly cool clock on the sidebar! If you're gonna spend billions in R & D, you can give your customers the neatest stuff!

Buying Windoze Vi$ta for security is like buying milk for the fiber.

Or flying a domestic US carrier for the food.

Or staying at a Motel 6 for the luxury.

And, of course, it's like reading Playboy for the articles.

MDN MW: "human", as in using Windows should be qualified as a human rights abuse

Yeah, right.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/30/vista_security_allchin/

I guess anything is better than XP, but that hardly describes Vista as being a revolutionary departure from the status quo. These individuals have repeated the lie so often they cannot differentiate truth from fiction, reality from fantasy, or innovation from incompetence.

Evil_MS_User:
"On the other hand, I believe that the only problem with Apple is the Mac Cult. I've said it before in another thread - when I heard that Apple was ditching MacOS for a Unix-based system I thought it was the best move they ever did and began looking more positively at the platform. But then I made the mistake of visiting Mac user forums such as MDN and realized that in no way, shape or form would I want to be associated with such a virulent and obnoxious user base."

You can't just outright dismiss using a Mac because SOME of the user base is "virulent and obnoxious"....BUT.....


I have to agree with Evil_MS_User on this one. Maybe we are just over zealous (overbering?) about the computer we have come to know and love - but some people just view us as snobs! There is no need to keep bashing Microsoft into the ground all the time - It's tiresome, a TOTAL waste of time, and does NOTHING to show people who are currently using Windows the advantages of the MAC OS. Instead of insulting Windows users at every opportunity (which turns them away), show them what you've got. If they don't want to change, it doesn't mean they are stupid idiots. It means they have made a CHOICE.

We scream about wanting to convert the whole world to Mac, but we would probably cry like a baby if it did happen because then we would lose our exclusivity.

This isn't watered-down politically correct ("can't we all just get along") banter - It a dose of commom sense.

Life is what you want it to be
So don't get tangled up trying to be free
And don't worry what the other people see
BECAUSE IT MEANS NOTHING! LOUSY NOTHING!

Correction:

This isn't watered-down politically correct ("can't we all just get along") banter - IT'S a dose of commom sense.

One last thought.....(this thread is a couple of days old so I doubt anyone will see this, but what the hell)

The QT clip given by MDN was from a documentary by Robert Cringely called "Triumph Of The Nerds"...It's on DVD now - here's a link (if it breaks up just cut and paste it!):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006FXQO/qid=1138733003/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-3945579-2020728?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130

Some of the reviews state that they "butchered" this release (DVD), but they only left out several minutes worth of footage for time reasons. It's dated, and if you lived through it, it isn't worth getting - especially at $50.00. But that is just my opinion.

Now, I love my Mac - but here are two quotes from Steve Jobs that are on the DVD that bemuse me:

[1] "Picasso had a saying, He said 'Good artists copy, GREAT artists STEAL', We (Apple) have been SHAMELESS about stealing great ideas"

*** According to Jobs' own admission Bill Gates must be a great artist because he is stealing great ideas from OS X and putting them into Vista, yet we bash him for it.

[2] "I didn't care if I was right. I cared about success"

*** Watched within the context of the video this statement sort of makes sense, but the more I hear it the less sense it seems to make.......