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The end is near! I give Windows 5 more years before it falls to less than 50 %. That is if Apple can capitalize on the situation properly (i.e. ADVERTISING!)

"We didn't show any of the security stuff, the safety stuff ... "

Good for you ! You will be hacked soon and again and again and again...

Apple copying Microsoft? That's the biggest lie MS has ever told.

That boy Allcin jes' don' know when ta shut his yap.

Note we have new rhetoric here -- the insinuation that there's stuff in Longhorn that's so great, it hasn't been released to the public because they're afraid Apple would copy it.

Microsoft is now fighting about the most aggressive vaporware campaign I've ever seen.

"Tiger is a very nice system, and I think what they're doing is very nice integrated search, and that's pretty much what we had shown at the PDC in 2003."

so you mean to tell us, they saw the idea for spotlight from you in 2003, then fully developed it in a year to have it ready for Tiger? and it's going on 3 yrs and still no Longhorn???

c'mon man....

ROFLMAO!!

So, Apple starting behind MS, copied Longhorn features and put them in Tiger - upto 18 months before MS!!!!!!!!!

I'm impressed!!! Those guys at Apple really know how to cut code quick!

You can't win Allchin. If they copied you, you should be ashamed that you had the headstart and they still beat you my so much. But if Apple didn't copy, then they're the innovators, and the ones you're copying.

Is that why the Longhorn date keeps slipping? Everytime you've nearly got it ready, Apple release an OS X update that puts you a generation behind, so you have to go back and code in all the new stuff from Apple. But then when you're nearly there again, Apple skips ahead again. And so it goes.

We'll never see Longhorn! And OS X is starting to get two generations ahead of Longhorn.

Well at least he's gracious. Which is more than can be said for most of the goons on this site.

Also, he's partially right about user-switching. XP did it before MacOS. Of course, they didn't think of it -- it's been part of *nix and others forever.

What kind of drugs is this bloke on…and where do I get some?

I must give M$ credit for the fast user switching--though Apple made it _much_ nicer.

As for spotlight, look here: Tiger ships in 2 days with the search features. Longwait ships in 18 months, possibly with search features. Now regardless of who planted what idea first, Apple's clearly to market waaaay in advance of M$, so Allchin's spreading FUD about that!

Well, he's at least correct about the fast user switching. Steve, I believe, even admitted as much during the pertinent keynote. But I also believe he added the caveat: "They've been copying us for so long, I think they can cut us a little slack." Or something to that effect....

Wow, and they call us mac users the "koolaid drinkers"

He must be drunk

Mix an outright lie witha truth... classic propaganda. Yes Jobs acknowledge that Microsoft did user swithching first... and in almost the same words as this Jack-as Allchin used (funny he can't even right his own speeches) but the rest of it is a load of crud... searching has been an apsect of Apple for a long time... who can forget Sherlock nee V-Twin... Microsoft. Copy 99% and claim that Apple copied 1 % and call Apple the copier...

John -

You better get together with the zealots and decide on a party line. When MS stole the GUI from Apple for the original Windows interface and got to market first, it was nasty awful stealing. But when Apple does it to Microsoft, it's laudable?

Silly hypocrites.

Why would Apple copy MS security? The UNIX security model is completely different. Besides OS X deosn't have many security flaws and most of (all of?) those are in third-party utilities that most people dont/won't use.

I think it is clear to see that Apple is doing it completely different than MS.

As far as copying: Apple improve greatly on the things they copy whether it be Application switching, User switching, Widgets, Task Bar (Dock), Security, Stability, Threading, Icons...

When MS copies they simply copy and usually rather poorly.

You'll see, Longhorn is a sort of "clean slate" that MS has given themselves, but where will it lead? An update to XP. It'll look nicer. It might run better, but it'll still be Windows we all know and loathe.

I hope Apple keeps innovating and we don't have the 90's all over again. That's all I want out of this. I don't care to rub MS-lovers noses in it, I just want my computing experience to improve in the end, just as it has been since the slow, but beautiful X beta.

Oh! BTW!

Allchin says, "We didn't show any of the security stuff, the safety stuff ... There is a question of how much we should show, so that they can try to copy again."

That is so frickin' hilarious! Allchin has simply got to have a brain tumor that allows him to view alternate universes 'cause he ain't livin' in this one. That's for damn sure!

It's kind of like how Pixar ripped off DreamWorks' Shark Tale when they made Finding Nemo.

PC Apologist:
"and got to market first"

Whaaaaat? Win95 was first close aproxomation of Mac GUI and functionality (Win3.x didn't have a desktop metaphor). So how did they get what to market first? MacOS 7 v. Win95.

aproxomation ->whoops<- approximation

"We didn't show any of the security stuff, the safety stuff ... "

Now why would Apple have any need to copy this from MS? There simply aren't any Mac viruses!

Guy MUST be smokin' some heavy stuff.

Fast User Switching copied?

I hardly think so....

In Winblows, a user can go to the Start menu and log off, and another user can log on.
In OSX, the user remains logged on, another user can log on, but the big difference is that both users can remain logged on. You can seemlessly switch between users, and it happens in a much more abrievated time line. Hence the name "fast user switching"

The biggest advantage on the server level is Terminal Services, or more importantly Citrix MetaFrame. This multiuser environment would be really cool on 10.x. It would reduce the deployment of enterprise apps and would work in a hetrogeneous network.

Things dont look good for MS, Apple is making good headway, some marketing of the computers would help though. But lets not forget LInux, the up and comer, its not as polished as OSX but the repackagers are hard at work trying to unseat XP, check out Novell's 10 system. I was impressed for a Linux desktop. I wont leave Apple, but its worth paying attention to the other underdog.
Hopefully Apple is hard at work on the next version of iWork cause we need more features in Pages and a spreadsheet program to put shame to Office.

Agree. One would have to be seriously lame brained to believe that MS are hiding all the great new security features in Longhorn to stop Apple from stealing that particular concept. But then it was only a few months ago that Billy boy claimed that windows security problems were the fault of everyone elses's OS rather than his own so what can one seriously expect from this tawdry bunch. As we all know from this forum amongst others there are still some brain dead fellow travellers out there who still lap all this party nonsense up.

I wanna party with that guy...

"In Winblows, a user can go to the Start menu and log off, and another user can log on.
In OSX, the user remains logged on, another user can log on, but the big difference is that both users can remain logged on. You can seemlessly switch between users, and it happens in a much more abrievated time line. Hence the name 'fast user switching' "

Actually, a Windws patcher goes to the start menu, clicks 'log off'. They get a dialog that has the options 'log off' and 'switch user'. They click 'switch user' and get the log in screen (with their current user still active). Then, they can click the user they want and use that account. Both with Win XP and OS X Panther can have multiple users logged in, it's just that in OS X, the user can select the name in the top right corner, select the user they want to switch to and go. - a much faster process.

mrw0lf -

XP has user-switching where both users stay logged on. Has since its release.

Artisticulated -

I think I said the GUI, not the desktop metaphor.

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!

THIS GUY HAS BEEN DRINKING THE M$ COOLADE FOR TOO LONG!

If I was him I would sack the OS programmers because with all M$'s billions they still cant create anything usable or diferent.

Regarding Apple copying M$... ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT!

My message to all M$ employees is forget Longhorn and get a mac!

First Thurrott starts bashing windows and now Allchin keeps popping up to say that Apple is copying Microsoft??? We truly ARE in Bizarro World, lately!

"Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it."

At the end of the day it ALL comes down to this...

TIGER IS AVAILABLE NOW!

LONGHORN ISNT!

Simple as that - all this bullshit spreading vapouware propaganda from Microsoft CANNOT change yhis very simple and REAL fact.

Admit it Microsoft - YOU'RE CRAP!

Steve Jobs himself admitted that Fast User Switching was a feature first found in Windows. Yet, which way the balance goes with "borrowed" ideas is quite obvious! =)

If Apple is copying MS Apple must have invented a time machine.

Go Apple!

"We didn't show any of the security stuff, the safety stuff ... There is a question of how much we should show, so that they can try to copy again."

Good Lord.... if Apple DID copy any of the "safety stuff" then OSX would be eaten up with viruses just like Windows.

PC Apologist,

When did MS come out with the GUI before Apple? What were you running in 1984???

"We didn't show any of the security stuff, the safety stuff ... There is a question of how much we should show, so that they can try to copy again."

Right. Apple needs to copy MS security/safety...cuz they're really lagging there.

Another Micros@#t whore!!!! How can one copy something has not come out and won't be out in almost two years? Such Moron!!!!!

Fun? This is freaking fantastic! Die Microsoft DIE!!!!!!!!

I saw their keynote, it was a flash back to when his Steveyness first showed the dazziling affects of
Quartz Extweeemmm! to the Mac faithful. It let us know just how insignificant longhornzzz was. Microsoft is DEAD!!!

it's a bit gruesome, but shouldn't M$ change the nickname of their next gen OS to stillborn?

I didn't know it was possible to copy something that isn't out. Is that like musicians using parts of song not out yet to make their music?

Wait, that's being innovative. My bad.

"Tiger is a very nice system, and I think what they're doing is very nice integrated search, and that's pretty much what we had shown at the PDC in 2003."

This guy is on crack. They (MSFT) showed it in October 2003 and it shows up at the next WWDC in June of 2004 (about 8 months), and Apple COPIED them? Man I want the drugs this guy is using...

mrw0lf is half-right and PC Apologist is half-right. If you authenticate XP against a Windows XP server then Fast User Switching is disabled, thus most people who use XP at work will never experience Fast User Switching.

Sorry, PC Apologist, but Apple got the Graphical User Interface out the door much faster than Micro$oft. 1983, Apple had the Lisa. 1984, Apple came out with the Mac. The first Windows rolled out the door in 1985. Windows 2.0 in 1987. Windows 3.1 (the first popular version) in 1992!

Sorry. Please try again.

(Oh, the GUI concept is credited to Alan Kay at the U of Utah in 1969. PARC was demoed in 1975.)

It was in UNIX, including BSD, long before it was in Windows. Apple didn't implement it in OS X right away, but when they did, they were catching up with other UNIXes, just like MS did.

SJ "That's it.. we got the best stuff in LH a year and half early.. who's buying the first round"

lowly apple programmer "Uhm, Sir Jobs.. wait.. there's more to copy still"

SJ "Like..?"

LAP "Windows will have upgraded its.. security..software.."

*silence...

SJ "BWAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!!!! Good one.. first rounds on me.. that was hilarious..."

LAP "*smirk Okay.. but no reefer this time.. "

How it is "copying" when Tiger is coming out first? By at least a year and half no less? Retard...

I have used Macintoshes for several years now, but not because I hate Microsoft. I've used Office on all my Macs, and it's always been a solid application package. Microsoft develops a lot of decent products... but Windows just isn't one of them.

No, I use Macs because the Mac OS is better. I don't wish death on Microsoft or Windows, but I definitely wish Windows would get better in the same radical way Mac OS got better from OS 9 to X.

Why doesn't Microsoft finally do what Apple did with OS X... acknowledge that placing more Band-Aids on a rickety old system simply won't do any more and adopt a *nix-based system?

We all know it's more stable and more secure, and at the end of the day if they actually did migrate Windows to a *nix system, then they may catch some flack about changing course, but at least they'd bring out a better operating system.

... and isn't that what it's about, after all? I changed to Mac after years of using Windows because it's a BETTER system. I don't have any religious sentiments about Apple, although they clearly bring out nice products. But if ever a day came when Windows was better than Mac OS, I'd switch back. I don't find that likely, but it's true. For me, it's about a better computing system, not a holy war.

If Microsoft wants to continue down the tired old road that is Windows as it stands today, so be it... but it's to their own detriment.

Microsoft's Security advances are all about Security for M$ and their money, not the user. Notice it with XP? Now you have to log into secure servers and give passwords before you can use XP, and everytime you install a new HDD (or clean install cos Windows is so stuffed up) into your own PC that is licenced, you run into authentication issues and end up having to phone M$ and arguing with a pleb trying to get a legal OS working!!!
But despite this "security" advance there are still tons of dangers from viruses and so on, so security for the end user is not inherant in the OS, you need to rely on external software (antivir, antispam, etc) for safety.
Imagine what Longhorn will be like if/when it ever arrives?
"Sorry, you've decided to do a clean install, you'll have to go and buy LH again"

Nice approach, Jim, but answer me this:

Is it innovation to work on it for FIFEEN YEARS and still have to pull it from Longhorn so that fast searching won't be out until like 2008? Are we copying you? If we were, then ours wouldn't be out until, let's see, 2020!

Yeah, we're copying you. I think you ought to go back to Bill Gate's "stolen TV" simile and not try to pretend we are copying you. Fast search is the holy grail of many. Just because you have been working on it doesn't mean you're the innovater.

As they say, you can't copy right an idea, just the execution.

Nice try Jim. And thanks for the compliments.

Steve

[sarcasm] You're right, Jim. Apple HAS been copying you. Also, Ben Affleck is copying me. I wanted to sleep with Jennifer Gardner years before he did. So what if he's actually in bed with her as we speak and I'm home alone with just my "Electra" DVD and a bottle of hand lotion? It was MY idea first! Nyah-nyah! I win! When will Ben stop copying me and get a life of his own? First he steals my idea about sleeping with J. Lo, and now this. What a loser that guy is. [/sarcasm]