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It boggles my mind as to how a large and profitable company like M$ cannot manage a decent OS??

Many people and companies are tied to Windows. The smart ones will begin to diversify and begin supporting the Mac. The ones that don't may find themselves out of work.

Next, please cut WMP, and make iTune as standard.

That would spell the end of WMP format. Hurray!!!!

Remember, it is still a looooooong wait for ShooortHoooorn!!!!

M$ will continue to stay pretty strong overall though. It's a big world out there and many people have yet to get into computing. Most people know of Windows and simply think it IS computing. Sucks, but I believe that's true.

Is their ship taking on water? Yes, so others might take some marketshare away, but M$ is too big to disappear or become irrelevant. If anything, I see in the future how it might end up being broken up somehow like At&T;was in the 80s.

It should be noted that integrated search will still be in Longhorn. As far as WMP and IE, I agree, they should trash both and include QT, iTunes and Firefox and be done with it already. They'd be doing their customers a great service.

I'd been saying for three years that Apple skunk-works had an Intel OS X ready to go and I was right. Here's the next one.

I would bet money that Apples skunk-works has a Windows emulator nearly ready to go (aka red box). If that turns out to be the case and it's even reasonably good, M$ is going to have a real fight on their hands. OS X Leopard would be unbeatable.

R is right...

there are people i told years ago that they could have iTunes for free and be able to "rip, mix and burn" at the highest bitrates without paying a dime and yet, having this info, went and PAID for the deluxe version of MusicMatch... $20! can you believe it?! and what was their thinking... "Duh. But MusicMatch is compatable with Windows and iTunes is made my Apple..." they just couldn't comprehend. i was even berated that MM was better and would be around longer. needless to say i had fun rubbing their faces in it when Yahoo bought MM out.
yes. some people think Windows IS computing. they're finding out otherwise now.

The trouble for MS is deeper than much delayed OS with a shrinking feature set. MS has a major brain drain happening with many of the top execs that managed many of their lucrative product lines such as Office (which is a great Mac product by the way).

Their used to be great incentives for the pioneers of the products, now they are merely employees. In addition their orginization structure is a multi-layered quasi-jurisdictional nightmare.

A view from inside MS can be found here:
http://minimsft.blogspot.com/

This is NOT to say that MS will go belly up... they have quite a booty in the old coffers. What is important is the image of MS from the public perspective and from the internal org.

Apple continues to be seen as an innovator from the Mac loyalists (us) and the media.

I think everyone will be surprised by the next public outing for Longhorn. Microsoft played the 'keep the GUI secret' card at the last developer's conference and it backfired on them big time. Next conference is up in September (?) and they will be keen to WOW the participants and repair the damage done by their previous secrecy - so the covers will be fully removed!

R: "I see in the future how it might end up being broken up somehow like At&T;was in the 80s."

This was supposed to happen after the antitrust trial (one company for OS, one for Office/other products), but the judge's ruling was overturned on appeal.

macnut222, re: integrated search

I *think* you're right that there will be a search like Google's desktop search, but it won't be close to Spotlight since the new filesyste (WFS) will be needed to do that, and that has been cut as far as I've heard.

Should we start a pool on the release date? 2007, 2008, 2009...?

sorry... there, not their.

Well said R....totally agree.

"It boggles my mind as to how a large and profitable company like M$ cannot manage a decent OS??"


Think of all the devices and services it supports out of the box. Design and Build your own OS, then ask that question.

Apple has the luxury of making there OS uniform to their own hardware. Take that away, and Apple becomes another Microsoft...Yet Apple, has had most of the work done for them with 50+ years of Unix Programmers plugin away at everything..At least MS is original (And dont give me the crap about DEC VMS aka win95) .Net is a truly innovative "in-house" product developed from the ground up product. And unfortunately for Apple, Its here to stay.

BTW MS is 250,000 copies away from one billion sold It would take a whole decade of thousands of people buying macs everyday to catch that constantly growing number...Dream on Guys, Dream On.

As for longhorn, I think you are all over zealous, None of you have even seen it..And as I am aware, OS X wasnt that great until 10.3

DoodleDude - right on man. It's called WINE. It should easily be portable to the Intel version of OS X, whatever that ends up being. I think if Apple did a Safari number on WINE it would end up ROCKING. My 2c.

MDM: I sure wish you wouldn't use popups on your single entry pages. Totally annoying.

Service Pack 3. Ummm! cant wait for some of that Microsoft-y goodness! make mine extra crunchy!

the laughable thing is that twats like thurrot and that jack schofield idiot on the guardian are blathering on about apple copying microsoft's features... what a hoot!

I can't wait for WWDC 2006 when Steve reveals new features in Leopard that make Steve Ballmer pull out Bill Gates' hair.

I think the only area where MS will lose significant marketshare is in the home market ... the corporate world is dependent on MS whether they like it or not ... not even considering company applications which run on Windows ... think of how many businesses have locked themselves into proprietary MS document formats (Word, Excel).

I think Apple has the opportunity to make large strides in the home market ... as much as I would like to see that happen in the corporate market ... I don't see it happenning anytime soon ...

I think the biggest problem MS faces with Longhorn is that many customers are still perfectly content with W2K and XP ... and since there are likely steep H/W requirements for Longhorn ... it makes it even less compelling (especially for home users).

What's he got against Kias?

Heh "Slob"... what planet have you been living on? OS "X" runs on THEIR hardware too. It isn't proprietary, it's OPEN SOURCE and UNIX. Get over yourself, because MS can't and never has Innovated anything in their operating system, going back to WINDOWS v1.0.... That idea even came from the likes of Central Point and Symantec. THEY CAN'T BUILD ANYTHING that can be considered an OS.

Hell, they even blew DOS for god's sake!!

By the time Longhorn ships Apple will have run out of feline types to call OS X.

What? No comment from Sputnik® about how the Real IT World™ is waiting for this "stripped down, bare bones, bug infested OS"? C'mon, Sput...we're waiting.

(yes, I know he's really a sarcastic Mac user...)

re: Steve "The Slob" Job

"It boggles my mind as to how a large and profitable company like M$ cannot manage a decent OS??"


Think of all the devices and services it supports out of the box. Design and Build your own OS, then ask that question.

Apple has the luxury of making there OS uniform to their own hardware. Take that away, and Apple becomes another Microsoft...Yet Apple, has had most of the work done for them with 50+ years of Unix Programmers plugin away at everything..At least MS is original (And dont give me the crap about DEC VMS aka win95) .Net is a truly innovative "in-house" product developed from the ground up product. And unfortunately for Apple, Its here to stay.


MAYBE SO - BUT MY COMPANY WONT BE USING .NET ANYWHERE!

I value the inegrity of our data too much to use that overated pos.

I tell ypu what - UNLESS Microsoft sorts out all the security issue in the OS (WHICH IT WONT!) Using .NET will like sticking your dick into a whore without using a condom!

If you wanna risk your business then by all means do - Lets hope you have no confidential data!!

If OSX wasn't great until 10.3 when did Window's become great ???
Answer, It has and never will be Greatt!!!!!

Oh Sputnik, come out, come out, wherever you are!!! And do the same old studip cut and paste of that .net thang!!

Ok, so gone are Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger and Leopard.....

SO, there are still plenty of BIG Cats left out there:

Baycat
Bobcat
Cheetah
Cougar
Lion
Lynx
Margay
Ocelot

and others.....

Looks like we can keep it going for awhile longer.

Heh, does anyone know what MS really stands for?

MINDLESS SHEEP!

It has been said by all the Windows critics that Longhorn looks like XP SP3 and nothing more with all the cuts in features. They don't have anything that will compete with Tiger let alone the next revision of OSX leopard.

I want to see Petey in a head-to-head with Sputnik...

Ground beef rather than Long Horn better titles the product that will eventually ship.

There's one cat you left off, which I'm sure will be the name for 10.6: Putty Tat. I see a deal with Warner Bros and Tweety Bird in an X like cage.

Of course I think Tiger's superior to XP and I don't understand why Microsoft still doesn't get it...but, just as I wouldn't want to base anything by somebody that writes for "XP Monthly," I don't think I can trust a writer from Apple Matters.

M$ isn't going anywhere and they ever do, I suspect it'll just as likely be a unified, marketed Linux distro as it would ever be Mac OS X.

But don't forget what many ANALysts and IT people say to protect their jobs....

Apple copied Longhorn...

Spotlight was introduced by MS in their toolbar years ago...

...what else... I foget...

"needless to say i had fun rubbing their faces in it when Yahoo bought MM out."

Bad approach hombre. Part of the reason Windows users are so stubborn is their perception of Mac users as arrogant pigs. You should have used that as an opportunity for conversion and teaching as opposed to some ego-driven i-told-ya-so-a-thon. All that does is hurt the platform.

It's amazing to me that mac users don't seem to get this. When you truly have a superior platform, why have an inferiority complex about it. Show, don't tell.

Use sugar instead of vinegar. Works better.

g5Mac

cheetah has been used.
Im stumping for ocelot

Wasnt the X public beta called Cheetah ?

Longhorn, schmonghorn...... windblows sux, plain & simple, everyone knows it but is too afraid to switch to anything else

deal with IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

magic word = new, as in "get a NEW life", a new OS and a new 'puter too

Well, I have some documentation at home that we got from M$ before the release of Windows NT 3.1, and as I recall there were things that they promised for NT that still weren't in Windows 2000. So, how you say 18 months before you ship something that you will have a feature and five years later still not be able to do it (but continue to promise it) befuddles me. But they have managed to do this for a very long time and most of the computer buying public appears to be okay with it. Maybe what it will take is continued good press about Tiger and people will realize that M$ doesn't really offer them anything that can be had or bettered elsewhere.

GOOD GOD!!! Practically every day there is at least one article about horrors of Longhorn (or, as you love to say, "XP SP3"). Give me a break!

I have a Mac, I love it, but this kind of talk is just laughable and bad for the platform (I agree with 'hammer'). Very much a turn off for people who aren't total Apple fanatics.

The soon to be released MS OS "Longhorn" is going to far exceed the expectations of the general computing public. We in the "real IT world" have participated in a robust beta testing program. Longhorn is an amazing feature rich OS.

The most important fact however is the undeniable truth that nobody is "switching" to Apple computers. The Windows OS is the global standard for secure enterprise computing. Complete with a diverse set of tools and an unstoppable awe inspiring framework known as .NET.

Apple is struggling to find high speed chips and eager software developers. The shift to Intel is just a symptom of the underling problem.

Nobody is using, supporting, developing or recommending OS X in an enterprise environment.

©

i think if Windows releases Longhorn it might be in more trouble than going the way of an SP3. Companies are not going to want to spend the capital to upgrade their computers to something like Longhorn. It'll be a radical shift for office secretaries, etc. Too much of a burden. They might actually be wise to abandon the ambitions of Longhorn in favor of a simplier upgrade.

Sputter-nik:"The soon to be released MS OS "Longhorn" is going to far exceed the expectations of the general computing public. We in the "real IT world" have participated in a robust beta testing program. Longhorn is an amazing feature rich OS. "

Yes. A beta called "Windows XP."

Zing!

You mean fantastic new, innovative features like RSS that is such a breakthrough that MS had to write a press release to say the were embedding it...LMAO

If only Goebbels was alive and well, oh how the Longhorn developers could do with his propaganda skills right now to sell this stillborn calf. Though he does his best to deliver one has to say that just like his rusty bleeping namesake poor old sputnik just doesn't quite cut it in this real and modern world. Poor luv.

"We in the "real IT world"

You mean the guys who have to come to your office to remove all the garbage in you computer so they work again? If that were my job, I would praise M$ and bash the Mac as much as $putnik.
With my new job, I've been forced to use Windows(XP) for the first time, after spending my life on a Mac. Anyone who would argue that Windows in on par or better than a Mac is (a)Lying (b)Never used a Mac or (c)Makes their income fixing these POS Machines.

I'd be careful, fellow Mac fans.

Microsoft is sand-bagging.

Yes, Longhorn is disgracefully late.

And yes, lots of features have been cut.

But it doesn't matter.

There is a reason why the dev builds have been hiding the new UI. It's amazing. It is 3D. And Transparent.

And it will blow people away.

Yes, Microsoft stole all of the ideas here from Apple, Be, and Sun. No matter.

The press is going to love Longhorn. Apple really has their work cut out for them.

And sadly, even though Leopard will be better--of course it will--Longhorn will once a again be "good enough" and the world will continue to use Windows in mass.

I really hope Jobs has Apple firing on all cylinders with not only Leopard--it cannot be a modest upgrade--and ALSO with iLife.

A major upgrade to iLife is critical in 06. It's a key differentiator.

Here's my problem. My blog has an rss feed. I'd tell my friends about it, but I don't want to have to figure out what Windows has to get rss. What a pain in the ass. Maybe my Windows using friends will be able to watch my rss in a few years without having to get an app to do it. Most windows users I know haven't bothered to mess with Firefox. So that's out the window.
It still boggles my mind how Apple can be out there in the innovation space and how Microsoft isn't keeping up. My only impression is that the company culture has taken a downturn and the people working there aren't happy while down in Cupertino the place is electric.

Very much a turn off for people who aren't total Apple fanatics.

-------

Fine, who cares.. you know..when Apple puts on an iPod, it's a turn off for Rio execs..

The point is.. don't think that Apple guys should shut up because 'it's a turn off to switchers'. you need to have a vocal minority, or there will just be a world full of Best Buy morons lying to their customers and miserable customers who accept Windows medicrity as 'the best there is'....

telling Apple with a 3% marketshare to turn down the volume? please.

Looks as though Microsoft were being a little too optimistic trying to cram everything under the sun into their new OS.

'Shoehorn' might have been a better name.

Dah da boy $putnik!!! Nice cut and paste job! Now go get a life!

"Longhorn" Your right to choose none...

-Go ahead; defend your right to NOT choose
-Let's all be the same, because it will become a standard
-Let’s eat, dress, make love and live the same
-Why be a man or a woman, if we all can be the same
-Let’s drive a slightly different car, with the SAME basic engine
-Don’t be creative; it’s a waste of time, even if you get ahead
-Is anyone pretending to BE DIFFERENT? This is outrageous. -He is so arrogant.
-Let’s condemn anybody who wants to taste another flavor.
-If another flavor appears it may mean I don’t have the best taste. What a dilemma…
-Etc., etc., etc.

Even IF Longhorn is the greatest thing around…