MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Some people just won't be convinced. At a birthday dinner for a friend last week, the issue of computers came up. My interlocutor was die-hard Windows.

"I need to get inside it," says he. "Why, what do you need to do that you can't do?", I ask. No clear answer. "I don't like how it controls you. Everything goes through iTunes." "Really? I've never experienced that," says I. "I have a lot more experience fixing things in Windows." I was sorely tempted to ask if he would prefer that Macs break down more often so he could get that experience.

"Do you like having to deal with viruses and spyware all the time?" I ask. "I run software for that. Never had a problem." I tell him how almost the entirety of my former agency - some 100,000 people - were essentially out of business for days after we were hit by Sasser, despite all our precautions. He wasn't impressed.

Some people aren't worth the effort.

Apr 06, 09 - 03:42 pm Comment from: Think

Look at it this way...culling the herd, that way my kids can kick but in the business world while those diehard PC users get left in the dust.

Apr 06, 09 - 03:42 pm Comment from: Wingsy

Was wondering when (or if) MDN was going to report this.

Apr 06, 09 - 03:50 pm Comment from: Jersey_Trader

The "switch"! The truth! 1 down and a few million to go. At some point, they will all want a Mac! In the end, even Darth Vader leaves the Dark Side. (That would be Steve Ballmer in this real life story. However, in this story, he the dancing monkey.)

Apr 06, 09 - 03:54 pm Comment from: Jubei

@Raymond in DC

Thats the kind of user that cannot see the difference between cut, copy & paste on the iPhone vs the way all the others do it. Cannot think or view beyond the name of the feature. He'll keep drinking that same cup of crappy coffee because he knows how to brew it by heart and its cheap.

this weekend my friend commented on how nice my early 2008 mbp was =) she had just bought a dell xps 1330 and i admit that it's decent hardware. she mentioned that she loved how macs looked yet didn't want to relearn how to use the computer. that's ok. i figure that as macs become more commonplace at her school, she'll have more opportunities to use a mac and realize that they're not as foreign as they seem. it's not easy for some people to use a computer; regardless if it's mac or windows.

Apr 06, 09 - 04:18 pm Comment from: Gregg Thurman

"MacDailyNews Take: This blast of brutal honesty simply can't be good for London Computer Support's business."

There will plenty of PC support required for several more years. In addition to that there will be a growing need to help PC users switch to Mac. I think London Computer Support is positioning themselves for the latter.

I have to say, my twin 16 year old daughters just moved in with me. There mother has only ever owned a PC; this is all they knew. I pulled 2 eMacs out of the closet, dropped a clean image of Tiger on them and said here you go.

That haven't asked a single question as to how to get something done. They just keep doing...

Apr 06, 09 - 04:30 pm Comment from: qka

This blast of brutal honesty simply can't be good for London Computer Support's business.

The supply of potential Windoze losers won't dry up any time soon. I think these folks are OK for at least a few more years.

@Raymond in DC

There's really no way to deal with that kind of person. You can tell them over and over that Macs don't require you to "fix" them constantly and there's no reason to "get inside" of it the way you need to with Windows. They can't conceive of using a new OS because their current OS needs them to make adjustments constantly so it will operate properly. It takes a long time to let go of that type of truly deep co-dependency.

Honestly, the best way to persuade some one that a Mac is truly better is to use it in their presence constantly. Several years ago, I lobbied to bring my personal computer to work instead of using the Windows box provided. Surprisingly, they said yes. I can't tell you how many co-workers come up to me and say, "Hey, I'm getting a Mac because I see you're always doing good work and never seem to have any problems with your computer." Usually, I have this conversation with them while the IT guys is at their computer for the third time that day fixing some problem.

When it's that deeply ingrained in their daily lives, the only thing that will convince them is seeing someone else doing it.

Apr 06, 09 - 04:31 pm Comment from: ken1w

All these people (and businesses) who still use Windows XP... They are expecting Windows 7 to be their upgrade and the reason they decided to skip Windows Vista. Only they will realize Windows 7 is "just like Vista - only better" - I believe that's about how Steve Balmer described Windows 7. And THAT will be the final straw. Whenever Windows 7 is release, expect to see a rush of new Mac converts soon thereafter. If Apple times things just right, they will be hyping the release of Snow Leopard at about the same time as the mass of Windows XP users are disappointed yet again.

"Whenever Windows 7 is release, expect to see a rush of new Mac converts soon thereafter. If Apple times things just right, they will be hyping the release of Snow Leopard at about the same time as the mass of Windows XP users are disappointed yet again."

I wouldn't whistle through that graveyard too loudly; W7 even in beta is quite excellent, and there's no small amount of pent-up demand at the enterprise level for a client OS that matches the kernel of W2K8.

That said, I see no reason why even in difficult economic circumstances Apple would not continue to draw new converts into the Cult of Cupertino. It's not a zero-sum game.

Apr 06, 09 - 04:58 pm Comment from: MrScrith

@Raymond in DC

Actually, if he needs to get in and muck around with things go ahead and let him, show him the "terminal" app so he can get his command line fix (and maybe do some bash scripting that dos can only dream of) show him the location of the plist files for configuration (and let him know that if he ever hoses it all he has to do is delete the plist file and it will be recreated with default values)... if he wants to get in and play with the internals of the OS, it's Unix, there's a lot there that he can play with. Just remind him that unlike Windows (which needs all that to run) Apple is best without all that, and anything he does in there is his own fault, the OS didn't need it in the first place.

Actually...

...I've found out that what really impresses Windows losers is running Vista and XP, each in their own window, under OS X. (using Fusion myself)

Flash a menu corner to get Spaces to show four screens and switch over to any OS with ease.

Then to top it off, flash screen over to Linux... hehe

Not only does this make you appear unlike the typical bias Microsoft bashing Machead, but someone who KNOWS the other operating systems and picks OS X because of it's quality.

It scares the sh*t out of Windows IT techs too because they are typical cheap bastards and seeing that with OS X with mulitple OS's running leaves them behind the technological curve.

They know the only way to do what I do is to buy a Mac and "give in" to Apple.

Apr 06, 09 - 05:10 pm Comment from: rahrens

Hmm, I am a "Windows IT Tech", and have been for over ten years.

I also use Macs at home because I like working WITH my computer instead of ON it!

'nuff said...

Apr 06, 09 - 05:20 pm Comment from: Cubert

On Winblows it's more like "plug and pray".

Apr 06, 09 - 05:30 pm Comment from: ElderNorm

@ RAymond in DC.

"Some people aren't worth the effort." Words of wisdom Loyd, er Raymond. Words of Wisdom.

Just a thought,
en

Apr 06, 09 - 05:33 pm Comment from: Larry

@Virus Free!:

Haha, I love opening up Parallels even though I have no use for Windows. I just love seeing the confused, shocked faces on Windows losers.

Apr 06, 09 - 08:01 pm Comment from: Big Al

@ Another IT Guy...

"W7 even in beta is quite excellent"

Vista in beta wowed the beta testers back when as well. It wasn't until someone tried to upgrade XP to Vista that the sh!t hit the fan.

If users buy new computers to upgrade to Windows 7 they won't be too pissed off.

If they are updating to W7 by installing it on the Vista computer that they already downgraded to XP after they bought it, look out! W7 will turn those Windows users into Mac switchers.

Yep rahrens is not a typical cheap bastard Windows tech.

I guess I'm still a bias Microsoft bashing Machead despite running two versions of Windows.

But then again, there's a good reason for bashing Microsoft...

oh never mind...

Apr 06, 09 - 08:45 pm Comment from: Gordon

@Raymond in DC

I call it "Swimming in Mud". That's what all Windows users are doing and when they finally switch to the Mac, Eureka! Suddenly they're enjoying swimming clear water.

@Big Al - damn straight. Have you read all the stuff about no upgrades from XP to W7? They'll have to WIPE and START OVER.

Well, I hope they don't all switch to Macs. I like Apple at the size they're at now and don't mind paying a bit more for their products. I think we need M$ to stick around to remind people just how bad their OS is. If they go away, we'd have nothing to compare
Apple to and worse, without competition, Apple would get big and complacent. Not good for us consumers.

Apr 07, 09 - 12:20 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Mater... "Have you read all the stuff about no upgrades from XP to W7? They'll have to WIPE and START OVER."

They're used to it. Wiping and reinstalling is a common solution to many a problem.

When my brother finally had had enough of Windows, one of his biggest concerns and questions was about reinstalling the system. I told him that I only did that for a big system upgrade, like Tiger to Leopard.

Then I explained about cloning a hard drive (using SuperDuper) and how the Mac OS X Migration Assistant works. I had to repeat a few points to assure him that I wasn't lying. He bought a Mac mini and couldn't be happier!

I tell folk a "steam car" analogy. MS users are accustomed to laboriously getting their steam-driven hulk fired up, waiting for a head of steam, fighting to steer the clanking hulk & stopping often to stock up on water & coal. They can see an advanced, clean-running automatic vehicle on the roads all around them, driven smoothly by smiling relaxed people, but fear of the unknown means they won't give up the steam car; it too so long to learn to drive, they are not keen to start over.

Apr 07, 09 - 12:25 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

@The Mac That Roared...

I think you're right.

With Mac OS X poised to top 10% in the next month or so, things could change dramatically.

10% is kind of a "magical" number. Buying a Mac may not seem like such a fringe thing to do.

I don't think Apple will ever turn complacent. Innovation is in their DNA. Yes, Apple does some stupid things, but they DO listen to us, their customers and will change course.

nice that more people are waking up, but i would expect mdn to correct all the mistakes being made in articles like that not only those that provide misconceptions about the mac.

so please make clear that though there are no viruses and malware for the mac there are trojans as on any computer plattform. lets stick to the truth in our fight against the dark empire and the dark age of computing.

Apr 07, 09 - 08:20 am Comment from: derekcurrie

I hate to do this, but I like facts and the author of the article messed up a few:

"With Mac OS X, users have a lot less to worry about: no viruses, no trojans, and no crashes. What more could a user want?" London Computer Support writes."

a) There are at the moment four different Trojans for Mac OS X. If you take into account their various strains, there are a total of eleven.

b) There are ways to crash Mac OS X. It takes some crappy programming to do it, but it can happen.

" "Now, you can get the same suite of applications for your Mac as well," London Computer Support writes."

a) As MDN pointed out: Gotta love the mythology factor in the Windows world. "Now..." HAHAHA! He probably believes IBM invented the "Personal Computer" as well.

b) But I also have to point out that Office for Mac does NOT have 'the same suite of applications". There has never been a version of Access for Mac. Office for Mac comes with Entourage while Office for Windows instead comes with Outlook. Office for Windows also includes OneNote, Accounting Express, Publisher, Groove and InfoPath. Obviously 'Now' Microsoft lavishes attention on their Windows version of Office.

Happily, the Mac easily runs Windows along side Mac OS X whenever you might need it. Personally, thankfully, I don't.

Apr 07, 09 - 08:44 am Comment from: rahrens

Those eleven different strains of trojans for the Mac may exist, but virtually none are actually a danger in the wild.

They do not propagate by themselves and require user authority to get installed. Kinda limits the propagation speed, huh?

I've been running Leopard since the first weekend after it came out, and have never experienced a crash on it at all. I have had to force quit a few apps, but the OS itself has never been affected by any of those misbehaving apps.

I also work for the Feds, and have only seen Access used by one office here in the last ten years. Most people wouldn't know how to use it and most probably don't even know what a database is. Our Agency standard for databases is Oracle, so those who DO know get them done right. Access is as useless as tits on a boar hog.

The other stuff is M$ bloat almost nobody uses either!

Apr 07, 09 - 08:56 am Comment from: derekcurrie

Hi rahrens,
I totally agree.
Especially:
"Access is as useless as tits on a boar hog."


But considering how Macs suffer from massive mythological rubbish in the Windows world, I don't see any point giving a pass to mythological rubbish in the Mac world.

Apr 07, 09 - 09:12 am Comment from: rahrens

I agree on the mythical stuff, but that also means we need to be careful how we talk about that stuff.

Just to mention eleven trojans without also noting that they are, for all practical purposes, not a danger in the wild at all is to provide ammo to the Mac haters out there. The difference is in how the OSes work, and to fail to note the difference is as bad as the original myth.

Same with the apps. For a decade or more, Windows users have stuck to the myth that the Winblows world has 30,000 plus aps to the Mac world's "fewer than a 1000" that I've heard before, and it has always been crap, since almost every major app maker has versions for both platforms and almost always have, with a couple of exceptions.

Now that trend has been even more of a myth for the last six years or so since OS X has attracted so much attention. For a vast majority of users, the iWork suite is all they'll ever need, since the OS comes with the Mail app - who the heck needs Outlook after Snow Leopard comes out and it gains Exchange compatibility?

Apr 07, 09 - 03:52 pm Comment from: NCIceman

This is a HUGE point that few realize. I spend 1/100th the time "maintaining" my OS/X intstall that I did on my Windows install. Before, I ran 2 spyware detections programs, disk defrags, and antivirus scans weekly. With the mac, I run a program like Iceclean one a month. HUGE time savings; I get to spend more time using my computer than maintaining it.

@Raymond in DC
These kind of pc users like windows and the need to get inside the system time and again, because they have build some kind of aura of a computer expert around them. They want to keep that myth alive among their friends and family. It gives them some kind of standing