MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

May 16, 08 - 12:47 pm Comment from: Jim - TIV

Amazing that these myths still persist.

May 16, 08 - 12:49 pm Comment from: Jay-Z

Last year, I got every person who mentioned to me that they were in the market for a computer to get a Mac, and every single one of them has thanked me.

• Macs are mouse centered machines. You constantly have to grab the mouse.

funny, i have heard the opposite comments from the windows herd... they don't like apple cause "you have to do everything with the keyboard."

i dunno, i find the mouse quite counter-productive and love all my keyboard shortcuts.

peace

Window's peer pressure goes away instantly as soon as you walk into an Apple Store and/or see iChat with three people and/or Time Machine recovery in action, etc., etc., etc.

May 16, 08 - 01:19 pm Comment from: makemineamac

Blue Dream - "Hear Hear!" You are so right!

At least two of these "myths" are only feebly contested, and are obviously included only because if you're going to write (yet another) mac-myths-dispelled piece, you get more grief for ignoring the REAL problems than you do for halfheartedly trying to pooh-pooh them as unimportant. Specifically:

There are not that many applications for Macs

Still true except for a few large sw developers. Alison himself concedes:

The number of Mac titles for business software, especially in the vertical markets for small businesses, is much smaller

"Vertical markets for small businesses" covers just about anyone who wants to use a computer application to get their job done.

Macs are closed machines that cannot be expanded

Still true, as there is no desktop option below the $4,000 Mac Pro No "consumer" mac is expandable/upgradeable beyond RAM & HD.

May 16, 08 - 01:23 pm Comment from: jtc

I sued to hate mac's but mainly because I was brainwashed as a child. I started out with DOS then of course every windows OS up to XP. I learned animation and 3D design in high school on windows. But going to college my uncle told me to get a mac and so did the school so I got the G5 dual 2.5 when it came out in august 04. At first I held back the drool staring at it for a while. I had my mac and pc hooked up to a KVM switch so I could still render with a couple programs not on a mac. And everything else I did on my mac. Been 4 years now and after 6 months I canned the PC, but I'd still like to get a mac pro to run windows for the 2 apps I know inside out. Otherwise I wish I switched to a mac a long time ago, got my dad to get a mac now hoping my mom will switch over too someday and my bro in law and sister who are designers on windows (shudders)

"Macs are closed machines that cannot be expanded."

Alas, there's too much truth to that so-called myth. And it continues to be one of the very few things about the PC side that causes some envy (another being the ability to use nice machines such as the new Thinkpad x300).

Fortunately, my sources tell me there's a real possibility of the "X Mac" / "headless MAc" box that so many have longed for. Final decision not yet made but there is a prototype under consideration.

@ PC Apologist:

Actually, Apple's $2300 Quad Core Mac Pro is the least expensive, expandable Mac.

Still, what's to expand. They're fast and have all the ports you'll ever need. I have had many Macs and, other than a PCMCIA Firewire card I put in a Wallstreet Powerbook some years back, I don't recall needing any internal upgrades. All my machines have been great for video editing.

May 16, 08 - 01:41 pm Comment from: DLMeyer

Macs DO cost more! You can get any of quite a few PCs ready to 'run' out of the box (sort of, all the parts are there) for under $500 while few of us can get a ready-to-run Mac for less than twice that price!
Oh ... you want to talk "comparable machines"? Well, that's a different story. And unimportant if you can be happy with a $449 PC to check your email with. That's like arguing about a "closed machine ... if a $1,200 iMac does everything you want, why would you care if it's "closed"? No ... don't answer that. Then we'd have to laugh at you.

Who keeps perpetuating these myths?

I bet it's our good friend ZUNE TANG!

When will Apple have such market penetration that every single switcher with a blog is no longer highlighted as newsworthy?

May 16, 08 - 01:51 pm Comment from: Cubert

@PC apologist,
Not much software for the Mac? How about every single piece of software out there for Mac, Winblows, and Linux?

Say it after me: "The Macintosh platform runs MORE SOFTWARE THAN WINDOZE! It runs every piece of software on the planet!"

Lesson over.

I still laugh at dorks like PC apologist when they talk about a lack of Mac software. For one thing, a Mac is the only computer on the planet that will run OS X, Windows, and Linux natively and even simultaneously if you want to.

Secondly, quantity does not equal quality. But quality has obviously never been something that a PC apologist would care anything about anyway.

• Macs are more expensive

That's one's not a myth, but reality!!!

I love this "Windows has all the software you need, much more than for Mac" argument by idiots like PC Apologist.

Why do I want to have to choose from 500 different applications to do one task? I want ONE - one excellent one at that.

And on Mac that is tha case, there is just so much less CRAPWARE. Windows users can keep all that rubbish.


And Macs are closed systems?? I have upgraded memory, hard drives et al on many Macs. Only geeky teenage hobbyists want to do more with their ha'penny Win PC's...

None of those ridiculous myths have any truth in them..

May 16, 08 - 02:04 pm Comment from: Gordon

And I don't use Windows because of that stupid "File Manager" and "Program Manager" that they have...

@DLMeyer:

The problem is the difficulty in replacing, and sometimes complete inability to replace, internal components that break or have become obsolete or no longer serve your needs. Think video cards. And optical drives. Or something else that craps out after the warranty is done, like motherboards.

The first of the "Leno chin" iMacs seemed to mark a new direction for Apple in this regard, allowing easy access to the innards (one could replace just about anything without special skills or tools, though of course some components, such as the motherboard, couldn't be purchsed from third-party vendors). Then of course Apple closed the darn thing up tight.

I don't object in principle to the existense of closed systems such as the current iMac. I'd just like to see an open option at a price that works for more consumers. And I'd also like to see it really open -- open to the point where just about every component (inc. the motherboard!) can be bought from at least a couple of third party suppliers.

It's about repairing your Mac yourself -- not having to send it somewhere. It's about improving your Mac yourself -- not having to buy a new one. It's about making your Mac work better (or at all) with software that didn't exist when you bought the Mac but you now want to use (think video RAM limitations). This shouldn't be too much to ask.

Anyway, like I said, I understand that a more open Mac may well be on the horizon. (Remember, I was right upteen months ago when I told y'all that the Mini would be upgraded, not discontinued).

May 16, 08 - 02:15 pm Comment from: Gandalf

A lot of the mouse/keyboard thing is because 99% of Winkers have one window filling the screen. They can't drag and drop other than within the same document, it's an alien concept to them, there's nowhere to drag too. Whilst I drag from the Finder in to Transmit to FTP or drag from a browser my desktop to grab an image they mostly type in addresses or go through series of menus. Some have learned copy and paste, those are the more advanced users and that's why they are fixated on two buttons, select with the left button, copy with the right.

When Winkers see me doing simple stuff for a few minutes they are amazed at how much gets done so quickly. It's a dilemma, some of them may become competitors, can't promote Mac to them.

May 16, 08 - 02:28 pm Comment from: shen

"Oh ... you want to talk "comparable machines"? Well, that's a different story. And unimportant if you can be happy with a $449 PC to check your email with"

hell if all i want is to check email, get a touch and get a music player and browser too!

or wait, how much is the mini?

Mac+
"• Macs are more expensive

That's one's not a myth, but reality!!!"

and again i point to the greatest slashdot post in history, where someone sets out to show just that, and finds that they can't get their Dell to have the same options as the comparable mac unless they spend $200 more.

if that is all the argument you have, please don't bother to post....

May 16, 08 - 02:30 pm Comment from: shen

"It's about repairing your Mac yourself -- not having to send it somewhere. It's about improving your Mac yourself -- not having to buy a new one"

the 53 geeks who do those things on a regular basis all run linux. maybe you should try it too.

....me, i like having a computer i don't have to tinker with. ya know, one that works? kathxbai.

May 16, 08 - 02:34 pm Comment from: dd

@ PC Apologist:
You're incorrect about the number of applications. OS X has a LOT of software running on it. Just because Windows has more software doesn't mean it has better software. I've seen the freeware and shareware apps for Windows. They leave a LOT to be desired.
Mac, as a platform, can run OS X, Windows, Linux (natively). While running OS X, you're also running a fully-certified Unix as well. You CANNOT make any similar claims about Windows, as much as you'd like to try.

May 16, 08 - 02:37 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

MDN, once again you are way off on this one. The headline should read:

Windows to MAC dork cannot grasp reality

Big deal. So some little coward who doesn't have the fortitude or smarts to grasp everything that's awesome about Windows now has an overpriced, mouse button and game challenged toy for pretentious people who can't do REAL WORLD computing tasks. Whatever.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Macs can run all Mac, Linux, AND Windows software (and Unix too, if you want to get Terminal with it). How, pray tell, is that less?

May 16, 08 - 02:53 pm Comment from: jtc

mac pro isn't $4000 to start btw. secondly you get a lot for the money with the mac pro. I'd buy one now but a new car is much more important than a new computer. With windows PC's you get cheap stuff and that is why they cost so little. You build a dell or IBM box with the same specs as a mac pro and you will end up spending around the same price if not more. As you may not have seen when the mac pro came out they compared and the mac pro came out $1000 less than the dell box. btw Dell hahah good luck to you. Anyways, windows users are usually cheap and being there is a large selection of cheap computers they stick to them. The average pc owner gets a new computer once a year while mac users tend to keep theirs for 2 or 3 before upgrading to something new. I used to hate mac and think they cost way too much till I realised apple could make a cheaper laptop. Just downgrade alot of the specs and there ya go. The best part is apple doesn't load you up with a thousand choices where one model has a little more ram and bigger drive then this one has glossy screen or this one has a bigger screen and bigger drive etc. they offer 3 models when it comes to laptops and each can be further customized to your liking. I'm sick of whiney pc users complain about lack of options when they dont realise the reason the mac cost more is because it has all the options on it and then you can add more.

oh well just my $0.02

windows fanboys flame on!

May 16, 08 - 02:54 pm Comment from: Predrag

Everyone here arguing about upgradeablility and expandability seems to be a tinkerer. There is no way my wife would ever wish to even try to upgrade anything inside her Mac. And wives tend to represent roughly 50% of buying audience out there (although many, including myself, would argue that women are THE ones controlling wallets anyway, which consequently pushes that percentage even further up). Anyway, upgradeability/expandability is a minor concern for a small subset of male audience. It is minuscule.

As for software, the argument about the lack of it is at best abstract. FOr generic small-business-type operation, there's everything, from POS terminals with inventory/pricing, etc, to bookkeeping/accounting/payroll, doctors'/dentists' office automation, to every other flavour of small business workflow. Until someone tells me specifically what specific application they are missing for their small business, this argument will be at best academic. The dearth of software for 'vertical' applications applies to those that are really very vertical (i.e. for an extremely narrowly-defined audience). I think it is a ssafe bet that these represent less than 1% of potential small- or medium-business customers out there.

May 16, 08 - 03:07 pm Comment from: jtc

@predrag (although many, including myself, would argue that women are THE ones controlling wallets anyway, which consequently pushes that percentage even further up)

^^ that is called marriage and being whipped (cue whip noise)

Zune Tang® you never seize to brighten my day, I always look forward to your comments.

@shen "kathxbai" ?? this is not aol go back to the 90's

if you want a good computer, cost little and do everyday things on like check mail, upload pics and what not, listen to music, watch a movie, surf the web. Go buy yourself a mac mini. It looks cool, has plenty of power, and you wont be upgrading it because what you do is already nothing for the mini to handle, so no need to worry about that.

@ PC Apologist you windows retards kill me.

"Vertical markets for small businesses" covers just about anyone who wants to use a computer application to get their job done. ?? Do you still use DOS applications? Go back to your Job.

If you had an iMac what would you need to upgrade it with? Do you know what a USB or Firewire device is? Plenty of them out there to upgrade your iMac with. You don't have to open it it either. Plug it in.

I own a Mac Pro quad. If you owned one what would you need to upgrade it with? I can't think of anything.

May 16, 08 - 04:07 pm Comment from: bobchr

@no-no and Mac+
Since when are open systems for consumers? The only people that need to expand systems may be companies dealing in intense Graphic applications. Most of the so called closed systems that Apple sells have 800Mhz firewire which could evolve to 1.2Ghz soon. I don't think gamers count as part of the main stream consumer market. Most consumers don't tinker with there systems as a rule. Apples components, as a rule fail maybe about 1/3 to 1/5 of the time as other PC manufacturers so their machines last longer providing a cheaper cost to own. All the major components that one would upgrade (memory and hard drive) are usually easily accessible on the Mac. As for higher prices that has been proves false time and time again. Suffice it to say that Apple does not build cheap low quality commodity machines that need monthly subscriptions to virus and trojan horse remediation companies. Support software for your cheap PC will bring past the price of any mac very rapidly unless you're pirating your stuff. Time spent downloading updated drivers for spacial equipment also cost. What's your time worth? Poor arguments people.

Zune Tang: Forget Macs vs Windows - dude, you seriously need to reevaluate your life. Clearly you have an irrational hatred for Macs yet you spend your time trolling Mac centric sites and spewing vitriol in them by simply insulting others without any foundation to your words. You must be a lot of fun at parties.

Yes you are right. There is no DIY option with Macs. The are no Mac gaming machines. You can't turn a Mac Pro into an awesome Windows gaming machine.

Who cares. You can add a hard drive or optical drive to any Mac Pro or MacBook Pro with Firewire.

Playing games? Buy Dell. You deserve it.

May 16, 08 - 06:27 pm Comment from: The Dude

PC Apologist,
You've brought the "Wow" with you I see. Showing off your complete ignorance and making people say "Wow" when they read your post.

Zune Tang®... you go off your meds today? You seem a little more snippy than normal. Maybe the last round of "I'm a Mac" commercials hit a little to close to home.

But really, you get to snippy and people will really think you are a PC guy/gal and not what you really are; a Mac fanboi who just loves to stir the pot and has a great audience to play to here. I applaud you as a "pot stirrer" myself... but just don't over do it. You have done a masterful job thus far.

The Dude abides.

@ various-posters-who-seemingly-feel-threatened-by-one-Mac-lover's-desire-for-one-machine-in-the-Mac-line-that-is-open-for-DIY-repairs-and-upgrades:

1. I once bought an eMac G4. The ethernet stopped working. Hardware failure. There was no way to pop in a new ethernet card. Fix required lugging or shipping this 40-lb machine to a repair shop, a new motherboard, hundreds of dollars and a couple days without my computer. If it was an open system it would have cost ~ $20 and I could have fixed in less than 15 minutes (an hour if you include my trip to a store that sold ethernet cards).

2. I still have an iMac G5. The hard drive died. I replaced it myself, at home, with a drive Apple mailed me under warranty. It was easy because this generation iMac was relatively "open" -- you could pop off the back and access the hard and optical drives in under 5 minutes. What would you do now with a new iMac? Lug it to an Apple Store? Later the motherboard died (expanding capacitor issue, if I recall correctly -- a relatively common problem with early 20" iMacs). I had to send it to Apple and lost use of it for several days. If it was an open system I could have gotten a replacement board overnighted to me and fixed it myself in about an hour or so.

3. There's a software program I want to run that works fine on a G5 CPU but really needs more than the 64 MB of RAM that my iMac came with. When I bought the iMac, 64 MB seemed like a lot. Now there is something I want to do that I cannot do on my computer. If it was an open system I could spend $100 or so and put in a new video card. Since it is not I would have to spend $1000 or more to get a new Mac in order to use the program.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't object to closed systems in principle (and thus by extension have no objection to folks who don't care one way or the other). But obviously I open systems have cost and convenience advantages in real world situations that aren't that uncommon. So I just wish Apple would give customers a choice of a relatively affordable open system. An open "X Mac." That's all.

I can't help but wonder if the haters out there just feel insecure because they know they couldn't make a simple computer repair even if it saved them hundreds of dollars and days without their systems. It's a shame, really, because it gives idiotic PC lovers about the only legitimate piece of ammunition they could possibly have in this stupid PC-Mac war: Mac users are too dumb to replace a broken video card.

May 16, 08 - 06:52 pm Comment from: grh

Appalling language skills

May 17, 08 - 12:29 am Comment from: phantasmosxmagnum

@ no-no
I understand your grief but if you plan on keeping Macs i'd suggest you save up for a MacPro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can hear it now "too expensive" blah, blah, blah. If so save, save, save. Then sell, sell, sell your old equipment you don't need anymore. Then shop, shop, shop! G5 Powermac? Check the resellers like megamacs.com and starting at $779 for a 1.8 dual or $889 for a 2.0 dual & a 2.5 dual for $1499. Apple refurb MP Quad for $1999. A stripped new MP Quad starts at $2299. There's always eBay and many other resellers too. Apple is far from perfect but other than ordering another round of cheese to go with the whine, your choices right now (subject to change next month after the WWDC) are:
1) Make do with what Apple offers either new or used.
2) Build a Hackint0sh/Dellintosh.
3) Switch to the Dark Side.
4) Wait and see if they build the Mac Mini Pro or whatever.
I think they should and so does Gene Steinberg with The Tech Night Owl. He done a recent show about it here if you want to give it a listen:
Apr 17 08
Macworld's Dan Frakes on a proposal for a Mac minitower.
http://techbroadcasting.com/podcasts/nightowl_080417.mp3

Thanks, fake ZT; even you are not the Real® thing, I do appreciate your input since you seem to be very knowledgeable in your remarks - ALMOST enough to pass yourself off as me®.

Anyway, your are again, right on the mark with your observations. "Windows to MAC Dork cannot grasp reality". Woah, that was good. Thank you, and you are absolutely right. I am very happily using Vista, my wonderful and highly advanced Zune®, and really enjoy the Squirt™ feature daily. You MAC, Iphone, Itunes, etc. users really do not have a clue.

Your Potential. Our Passion.™

"Macs are closed machines that cannot be expanded."

Ask these people how well their last PC expansion/upgrade went.

Ask them how many hours/days, driver downloads, and calls to tech support it took to get things working.

Sometimes you're better off replacing the machine, esp. at the consumer level.

Macs are mouse centered. Right click anyone?

They do cost more.

And while they'll run anything Windows, you have to do it under Windows. Which sucks. Investors.com's DGO, TeleChart, StreatSmartPro, TDAmeritrades QuoteTracker, etc.

And even so, you couldn't pay me to give up my OS X.

I'll put up with having to use the mouse more than I should have to, I'll pay a little more and I'll put up with having to run Prallalels or the equivalent.

Why? If you have to ask, you've never used a Mac long enough to form an educated opinion.

So go educate yourself!

May 17, 08 - 12:52 pm Comment from: British Mac Head

You Windoze fan-boys drive me insane and you have done ever since I had to start putting up with your uneducated, ill-informed childish comments in 1993 when I bought my first Mac.

"So here's my ten penneth for what it's worth."

All in one boards are not an issue
I don't have an issue with Logic boards being all in one on Macs. It makes for tidier boxes and as far as I am concerned the more edge and pin connectors the more chance of an issue due to a bent pin or corroded connector. I have had exactly 20 Macs in my time (since ‘93 - nice round number eh) and have yet to require replacement of a logic board. Does your flat screen TV have removable boards. Apple use quality components to reduce the chance of component failure.

Plenty of Mac Software
As for software. There are currently over 19,200 native OS X applications [http://osx.hyperjeff.net/Apps/] and over 500 of them are specifically for business and as far as I was aware many businesses have native apps written for their needs and Filemaker is an ideal solution for that if you don't want to have a bespoke app written.

I have ran a business for 15 years on nothing but Macs from development to accounting. I never felt the need to get a PC. When I build a site I test it in Parallels with XP.

And as far as I am concerned the only safe way to run Windows is in a VM. You can back it up and in fact time machine backs up the VM file so if you get a nasty virus you can just delete the VM file and go back a few hours and restore it.

As I never produce anything in Windows I never lose anything either. Another reason why Macs running OS X are the best way to run Windows.

Price (Macs are good VFM and they last longer)
As far as cost is concerned. If you want quality you have to pay for it in both the Mac and PC camps and I think you will find if you spec a Mac with a comparable Dell the Mac is a similar price and occasionally cheaper. Just because Apple chooses not to dabble (currently) in low end, loss leader equipment doesn't mean they are expensive.

It's like asking Jaguar cars to make you a car with cheaper parts. It wouldn't be a jag would it.

If you can't afford a new Mac then buy a refurbished model from the Apple refurb store. You get warranties with them. Many of my 20 Macs were second hand but still worked well and lasted me for a good while.

I had a second hand three year old 500Mhz dual processor G4 tower for three years before I bought my G5. I ran it for another year as a file server and test machine. So it was 7 when I retired it last year.

Conclusion
To the PC trolls on here. This guy David Alison is far more qualified that you kids to decide whether Macs are better than Windows PCs. He ran M$ crap since 85, was an anti-Mac bigot for most of those years and now has several months of Mac under his belt. What experience do you dweebs have except the time you spent on 'doze and a terrible jealous anger because you know you look like dicks for choosing making a bad choice all this time. ?

May 17, 08 - 12:57 pm Comment from: British Mac Head

That last line should have read:
"you look like dicks for making a bad choice all this time."

oops. I thought I proof read that as well

It's about repairing your Mac yourself -- not having to send it somewhere. It's about improving your Mac yourself -- not having to buy a new one.

How many people in the mainstream want to repair or improve/upgrade their cars themselves today?

(crickets chirping)

There's a case to be made for building a reasonably reliable product that gives the mainstream consumer what they need and want.

It's amazing that people demand perfection in their cars, yet accept maintenance with their PC's.....

Macs are too expensive.
I paid $27,000,000 for a Macbook Pro 15",. I could get a similar Dell laptop for $2.99, with 400 USB ports, 17 hard drives and a naked girl.
Of course the Dell exploded after 3.1 nano-seconds of use, and destroyed my house. The girl sued me.
So I sold the MacBook Pro for $25,000,000 and built a new house and then bought a Mac Pro for $2300.

Life is good, even though most people are stupid, especially the posts here.

I wish that there was an IQ test before posting, but that would be discrimination I guess.

PC users are mad. I used to be one. I've never looked back. I think, and this is slightly off the subject, that the best reason to switch to Mac is that you don't need to worry about viruses (most of the time, although ClamXAV, the anti-v I use, is free and pretty good anyway). On the software note... my Mac is starting to slow down considerably as 50% of my HDD is software! (That's about 40GB of it, yep, not much space down here!)

“You're incorrect about the number of applications. OS X has a LOT of software running on it. Just because Windows has more software doesn't mean it has better software. I've seen the freeware and shareware apps for Windows. They leave a LOT to be desired.”

Unlike all those CAD and CAE applications on the Mac? Macs are good for “creative” types but people who chose to get useful degrees at college will end up using Windows on their Macs more than OSX.

“Mac, as a platform, can run OS X, Windows, Linux (natively). While running OS X, you're also running a fully-certified Unix as well. You CANNOT make any similar claims about Windows, as much as you'd like to try.”

Windows can run Linux natively too (cygwin) and if you really want Unix certification (and why would you exactly) you can download Solaris for nothing. At least it’s got ZFS, not the broken down shambles that is HFS+.

If you want all the joys of having no software and having half the pages on the internet render incorrectly just switch to Linux. Macs are for pretentious wankers who have brains the size of peanuts.