MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

looks like a winn/winn situation for everybody

Finally, someone with intelligence and facts. I love it!

good article....but i'm getting pop-unders. sorry to say that i will no longer be visiting this site. i refuse to deal with advertisers that bypass my preference to block there ads by this tactic.

lies, damn lies, statistics. Ridiculous.

rob,

Covered already:
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/6986/

If you can't accept 1 pop-under per day from a site that gives you a way to opt-out and announces when browsers' pop blockers are broken, then you probably should leave and never come back.

You too, Rob? Just got my third pop-under in a day. The irony of this latest one is that it says I've been chosen to receive a free laptop PC! MDN's advertisers are going to give me a free PC!! Woohoo!

MW=little, as in MDN is doing too little to deal with their pop-under problems.

Formica, sorry but methinks you've been dipping into the crack jar.

I get a new pop-under EVERY SINGLE TIME I visit MDN. Not "one per day." You would only get "one per day" if you were stupid enough to leave that spyware page open all day so it could track your web surfing movements and analyze your interests and personality. Who the hell would do that? Oh sorry formica, I guess I know.

rob,

You may want to switch to Firefox. I get no pop-ups, pop-unders, or *any* ads for that matter (adblock and RIP). All I see on MDN is pure glorious text about Macs.

MDN Magic Word: less - have less ad hassles with Firefox.

Use Saft, if you're having so much trouble.

Sum Jung Gai,

1. A properly functioning computer that can handle basic cookies should not be receiving multiple pop-unders per day from MDN.
2. Mine gets on per day. I have no problem with it.
3. Don't accuse me of doing crack because you can't figure out why your computer is not functioning properly.

Total Cost of Ownership analysis

--

The only people that know what TCO is, already own Macs.

I love my Mac but ... what a load of bull that spreadsheet is! Why do you need to buy anti-spam for Wintel but not Mac? Why do you need to buy a firewall for Windows (it has one, and Zone Alarm - equivalent of Little Snitch - is free). Why do you need to buy a pop-up blocker (Firefox is free!). Why buy an additional email client (Outlook is fine, Thunderbird is better and free). Why buy backup - there are loads of free options. Why buy anti-spyware (Spybot is excellent and free). Why buy a TweakUI (it's free!). Why buy a start-up manager - Windows is completely configurable here??? That, in itself wipes out any price difference. Then $25 per hour for my time? For a business, maybe, but at home?? My time is free - it's my spare time. As regards reliability, my WindowsXP system is on 24/7 and has been for weeks and weeks. MacOS remains less reliable than WindowsXP in terms of needing reboots, although admitedly with Tiger there's not much between the two - both are very reliable. My 1 yr old iMac has been repaired 4 times so far, resulting in days of unavailability (cost that at $25/hr) - I've never yet had to repair my PC.

I use a Mac because it's a nicer environment and the machine looks prettier. Not because its cheaper - it's not.

formica,
....and i'm supposed to know this why? and besides that loser-boy, i already opted out, and it still happens.

"and I'm supposed to know this why?" is a spectacularly silly defense for not knowing how your computer works. Figure it out, or ask nicely for help, and quit whining about your various inconveniences. Those of us who have done so will continue to enjoy MDN. And we'd also appreciate it if you'd refrain from such lovely troll-like phrases as "loser-boy", which only serve to demonstrate your own lack of value as a contributor.

Magic Word = "lack." Seriously.

Paul, the spread sheet comes with Winn's personal numbers in it. You are supposed to replace them with your own. Go through it line by and plug in your own personal numbers and see what comes up.

As for my time at home being free, yes it is, but the way I try to estimate the costs on that is to think how much I would pay someone to do the crap that I hate doing. How much would you pay? 10 dollars an hour? 5? 3? You must be willing to pay someone at least something to do something you do not enjoy doing right, even if it was only a dollar an hour?

I tried plugging in 5 dollars an hour (I figured if I did not have to go through the chore of arranging for someone to come over and could magically pay some Computer Genie 5 bucks and have the problems or the chore go away I would pay that much to save my free time for enjoyment) and only bought office, Anti-Virus, and backup (backup for both windows and Mac). I put the reboots at 5 per month for windows and put them at 1 per month for the Mac based on personal experience. I left the time estimates as is because I thought they were pretty good. After all this, the MAXIMUM Cost for the Mac was still cheaper than the MINIMUM cost for the windoze box.

And I am sorry but anecdotal data on repair times is meaningless. You would have to do a large sample population. And if you did I think you would find that the Mac wins out there too.

knowing how a computer works is far from knowing that people have to go to a separate site to opt out via "special" cookie from an advertiser that completely tries to over-ride our preferences by forcing there ads on us is completely different. telling someone that does not know this to "never come back to this site" is "spectacularly silly". if think that is of "value as a contributor", maybe you should re-think how you contribute. this is a matter of principal, not knowledge.

Paul,

Every situation is different. You can now draw a broad conclusion about TCO from your single experience. I am employed as tech support and fix Windows computers all day, every day. My Macs rarely, if every, need any service attention.

You stated that you use Macs because they offer a better environment. Does that mean that your time spent on the Macs far outnumbers that of the PCs, which could explain why the Macs needs more service? I bet if you used the PCs half as much as the Macs, then they'd need service twice as much.

Correction: You can NOT draw a broad conclusion....

JackA - I understand what you're saying, but unless you actually *do* pay someone $5 an hour to do the things on the computer you dislike, then it's meaningless. It's an imaginary cost of ownership.

FWIW, I put in my figures on the spreadsheet and the minimum Mac TCO was almost $400 more than the maximum PC TCO. Which is about right - but I still prefer my Mac...

Coolfactor - no, I spend much more time on PC's (at work), but my Mac's stilled failed more frequently. Apple's QC is not stellar.

Paul, you cannot draw a conclusion about TCO because it does not support the theory in favor here. All other anecdotes which do support it are of course accurate and we can derive spectacularly complete analysis from them.
Please stop making sense.

Paul.

I don't know what Microsoft-issued narcotic you are on, but from real-world experience, your statement "MacOS remains less reliable than WindowsXP in terms of needing reboots, although admitedly with Tiger there's not much between the two - both are very reliable." is far from the truth. At my work all the computers are Dells, and mine crashes about two times a day during normal operations if you go a little deeper than using a Word file. My Mac at home has been running without problems for more than a year under OSX 10.3 and 10.4. My previous computer also did not have any problems under 10.2. I am not saying Macs never have problems, some do and they can be quite persistant. However, few Macs have to be written off due to mechanical failures and most problems are caused by mishandling of the computer itself. In case you are one of the few people who ended up with a malfunctioning Mac than I'am sorry you are out of luck. Try contacting Apple, perhaps considering the repair history they might offer a replacement. But don't confuse those troubles with the general state of the OS. My Dell at work sometimes even crashes during the bios start-up, and it is less than a year old. Installing the software on the computers at our work was a nightmare. Especially Outlook can be a real pain in the ass to get it to work properly. We use Office 2000 at our work, and it is not fully compatible with Windows XP, giving weird problems, especially in the database program Access. We have had a new server installed and my boss wanted to know what would happen if he cut the power to the server. The result: badly crashed computers. Windos XP is only stable in everyday situations. Beyond that it is still carrying the problems from the past with it and is, like most software on the PC, confusing and counter-intuitive.

Hadn't I heard that the pop-up blockers under Safari and other browsers now appear broken? Something about the last Java update? Or has everything since changed...

running 10.4.2 build 8C46, safari

visit MDN at least 15 times a day.

Never had a single pop-up or pop-under.

I am not denying that some people are plagued with pop-ups/unders, Just wanted to make it clear that its not happening to everyone.

I too am getting pop-unders, F'in annoying as hell. Guess I'll find another place to get my Mac news now. I HATE GOD DAMN ADS.

To kill many of the pop-ups/unders, you could just edit your "hosts" file to redirect ad.linksynergy.com to 127.0.0.1 or any of the fastclick domains. Just open up your Activity window in Safari to have a look.

Works pretty well for me.

One of my friends has a problem with Mr. Winn, and frankly I haven't found any kind of refutaion that's made a liar out of him, but it puts in question Mr. Winn's reputation! Who is this guy, and how come nobody outside of MDN reports about him? It seems that the only thing Mr. Schwartau has going for him is his blog, but what other credentials does the man have? A quote from my friend!
...................................................
Like I said before, as far as I can tell, this guy's pretty much one of
those media phony's who has no real credentials. If you have any evidence
that he's actually worked in computer security doing real work, I'D LOVE TO
SEE IT. Yes, he wrote his book and its clear his promo packet gets into the
hands of gullible and harried editors looking to fill space in their
publications -- but I've yet to see anything from this guy showing he's
actually any kind of "security expert" with anything approaching real world
credentials.

As far as I can tell he's a big phony. Who cares what kind of computer he
uses?

why does a mac user need to buy office?

so we can open crappy excel files about TCO

i got a pop-up that said i won a free PC laptop
when i clicked the link there was no free laptop

MDN you are responsible for your site content
MDN send me my free PC laptop now

Paul,

Your obviously a new Mac user that is used to working for the computer on PC's and consider it a hobby. Like working on a car or something.

Mac users on average don't want to bother, they want their machines to work for them in a more "appliance" type nature, like a microwave. Open the door, stick the food in, set the time and press Start.

Mac users on average prefer to go do something more enjoyable with their time, like getting some sunlight and out of their parents basement or using that time to make $25 a hour instead.

Mac's are about productivity and ease of use. Health too if you consider how many times a Win snag has fouled up your afternoon of golf.

Now wouldn't you rather get laid by a nice girl in the middle of the green than fsck around with your filthy godddam piece of sh^t PC you bastaard heathen!

Oh sorry Windows flashback.

Ok, to defeat the pop-unders you can do this

1: turn javascript off when visiting this site (it's a flaw being exploited)

2: when the pop-under occurs, enable the full menu bar and copy the URL

3: Go to this site and learn how to add it to your /etc/hosts

http://dreamlight.com/insights/bugs/Apple/lookupd.html


4: If you want to lock a Mac hard click this link (requires a hard reboot)

http://ads.adsonar.com

http://js.adsonar.com


Blocking the site in your /etc/host file may do the trick, the window might still pop-under, I don't know just yet, but at least the ad, and the marketing data will not work.