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"You can refer to them (rows, and columns) in formulas by name."

Couldn't you do this with excel.

"Select the cell, range of cells, or nonadjacent selections that you want to name. Click the Name box at the left end of the formula bar. Type the name for the cells.Press ENTER."

Then you can refer to the cell or cells by name in the formula instead of typing A1, A2, etc.

Am I mistaken or is the author talking about something else?

And the winning 'numbers' is, - definitely not Excel.

Does it have macros?

ZuneTangDailyNews Note: Many Windows users — the majority, we believe — are delighted to use and experience Office, and really don't care what some dumpy copycat company in Cupertino does. Get your heads out of your MAC lemming asses and give Microsoft's free Office 2007 trial a try and see for yourself.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Yes, you can do it in Excel, but it's automatic in Numbers. Numbers finds your column names in the header row, and your row names in the header column.

I'm not sure I like the automatic naming... but I do like Numbers so far. I was expecting to be disappointed, just based on the tables feature in Pages. But Numbers is really nice. I'm looking forward to its evolution. Hopefully they will introduce a plug-in SDK so they can support competition for all of those third-party Excel tools like the @RISK Monte Carlo simulator, Decision Tree, financial statement analysis tools, etc.

ZuneTang

Well given office for the mac is only on v2004 and its a POS how do you suggest we try office 2007, i am certainly not going to run their POS OS just to run a POS application

Office 2004 is now off my mac and I am not bothered one little bit

I find it funny office 2008 is delayed which will make it the last major mac app to be converted to intel, the biggest software company in the world is also the worst at delivering

All credit to apple, numbers is good and probably does what 99% of the worlds spreadsheet users need.

The above is obviously not the work of the real Zune Tang.

A better than average imitation, but not the real thing. (Kind of like Windows, no?)

Thanks for trying.

Numbers is obviously a 1.0 product. I do not say this as a detrimental judgement. If one goes for Numbers looking to find every Excel feature available replicated there one will get disappointed, no doubts about it. But if you only need the basic functions of a spreadsheet, like 90% of computer users do, Numbers is a breath of fresh air in the Office apps workspace. Not bloated like Excel, not clumsy like OpenOffice, but a real Mac OS X app that is a pleasure to work in.
As any software, it will grow into a real competitor to Excel in a couple of updates. I predict that by Numbers 3.0 only those depending upon some esoteric macros and VBA code will still need Excel on a Mac.
But what I really would like to see is Numbers becoming more of a Louts Improv kind of spreadsheet. That one was really revolutionary. And its first version was on Next computers...

Yes, Yes, & Yes...

You don't need M$$$$$ "Office"...

It's surplus and old school...

Try iWorks and give youself and your clients a fresh outlook on life and business...

Be different and stand out for a change...

You're love it!

Next up - I hope - "Data"

A replacement for the database module of Appleworks, please. To my knowledge, no one ever came up with a functional translation to Filemaker Pro, just a data export and having to recreate all the layouts. How about an iWork database called "Data" that can open all my oodles of Appleworks databases created years ago, and still pretty functional on Intel Macs?

The individual tables are neat. It would make life a lot easier if I could do this at work. I tried to export multi tabled data to excel. Each table was exported correctly but as a separate tab. Not surprising really but a difficulty if you want to maintain the same format but be able to share files back and forth to windows users. This limitation isn't Apple's fault per se, although I would prefer an spreadsheet app that would ease excel users into the new app.

For V1, a very good app with some excellent features. It allows opening of excel files, which is extremely useful. However, to make changes (that excel can handle) and open later at work requires exporting. That's something that I can cope with but many dual windows / mac users may find annoying.

I have never had Office installed on either my iMac G5 or my C2D MacBook, and I've been using my iMac since August 2005. I use it for university, but I just use Pages for Essays and Textedit for taking notes (this will likely change with the new word processing mode in Pages).

Some people have a need for office, but IMO most really don't. For the odd time that I did, NeoOffice was fine. iWork can read & write Office files, and if you're really worried about everything looking identical, there's always PDF's.

As I've said before, iWork doesn't challenge Office in a corporate setting because of M$'s implementation of Information Rights Management (see IRM ) for all Office files.
They claim:
- Prevent an authorized recipient of restricted content from forwarding, copying, modifying, printing, faxing, or pasting the content for unauthorized use
- Restrict content wherever it is sent
- Support file expiration so that content in documents can no longer be viewed after a specified period of time
- Enforce corporate policies that govern the use and dissemination of content within the company

This will keep Mac corporate users locked into Office for a long time. (As well as the standard IT bigotry.)

Yes, Apple, Please add a simple database. I love FM Pro, but it's much too big & complex for a beginner.

I like Numbers (and all the other iWorks '08 software) but there is one thing I don't like about it and that is the small format bar...it's to tiny and I haven't found a way to increase the buttons yet.

So, It can do everything Exel does only easier?

Does it do, pie charts, graphs, grading calculations and estimates for grading procedures like for a class lets say?

If so, then I'm in. The thing I hate about Exel is you have to set it up so much just to do a-little.

..a man named Guy and a cat named Kitty read about a new spreadsheet called Numbers on a daily news site for macs called MacDailyNews when a yellow prick named Dick becamed erect from the right side of the screen. Guy told Kitty that Dick was so trying that he was going to a site where Dick wasn't.

How about an "iWork Pro" that INCLUDES Filemaker Pro?

I'd still love to see a retooling of Mail, iCal and Address Book to turn it into a single app that would be a total Entourage/Outlook killer, too. That would be an awesome thing to include in iWork in the future.

@Christian

Numbers definitely does do pie charts & graphs. Dunno what you mean by grading procedure but if its some math function, I think it should be all right.

BTW, why not install the 30-day demo, import your excel file and be pleasantly surprised! I've trying it (there is a slight learning curve) and TBH I don't want to go back to Excel (though work is Windoze only :-() I'm 99% sure you'll luv Numbers!

give Microsoft's free Office 2007 trial a try and see for yourself.

Did that. Was worth exactly what I paid for it.

As for Numbers, there needs to be either a plug-in environment, or some very receptive ears at Apple. Numbers is barely tapping its own potential.

I got my copy of Numbers yesterday and promptly tried importing a large, highly formatted AppleWorks spreadsheet. It worked flawlessly. Now I am reworking it to follow the Numbers approach to spreadsheet design. It is my monthly budgeting spreadsheet and now I have one table each for Mandatory Monthly, Mandatory Other Periodic, Discretionary Monthly, and Discretionary Other Periodic. There will be some other tables as I consider what I want to put in them. Numbers is a real pleasure to use and the layout and appearance of the page is very attractive to the eye. It also makes the information more accessible and less overwhelming. Good job, Apple!

Many Mac users — the majority, we believe — think they need Office, but really don't. Give Apple's free 30-day iWork '08 trial a try and see for yourself.

I own Office, why should I go out and spend money on a program that does less?

Christian--

Yes, it will do all of that. It even has classroom grading templates with graphs. I boought my iWork THE day it was announced-- family pack, of course. (Family pack allows you to install it on 5 machines at one house for $99-- a real savings).

"Apple had the luxury of starting with a blank slate and picking the things they liked from Excel while innovating where they saw the opportunity."

Doesn't Microsoft also have this opportunity? Isn't that what they really should have done for Vista?

Apple took this opportunity with OS X, taking what they liked best from NextStep etc.

Microsoft's MO is to simply add another layer of shit to their software. They don't know HOW to start with a blank sheet, nor does their business model and corporate philosophy (force upgrades, lock-in and leech) allow them to.

If every enterprise client was to switch to Linux and OSS, and bypass the Mac, that would still make me happy. Microsoft deserves to loose their monopolistic empire. We're beyond that now.

@Tommy Boy

A rhetorical question with an obvious answer. Keep chugging away with Excel, if that's what you like. But please do not ask a question you've already answered. That's just being provocative.

MW: trouble, as in looking for...

Many scientists and academics are Mac users and would love to switch to iWork to get away from Microsoft, but Apple continues to leave out "little" features that are absolutely required. For Pages, the missing feature is the ability to use bibliography software, such as EndNote or Bookends, without exporting to an RTF version which loses the formatting and figures. For Numbers, the key missing component is the ability to add error bars to the graphs. Nobody in the scientific fields can use the graphing functions without the ability to add error bars.

I downloaded the iWork demo and think it is great, but it can't replace Office until these important features are fixed. Maybe the next version ? This is the third version of Pages I have tried, and bibliography software still doesn't work. How long until Numbers (or Keynote) can do error bars?

@Tommy Boy
I own Office too; many flavors. You can characterize iWork as doing less than office, because in many respects that is very true. But you can easily flip that argument around to say that Office does less than iWork. The reality is that they are different approaches to handling similar work. With all its shortcomings, the hands down essential app was Office (anyone that says differently just doesn't operate in the wider corporate world). But I think it is undeniable that this version of iWork has without a doubt undermined the necessity of Office for a lot people that casually used it simply to be compatible with other Office users.

iWork doesn't do everything Office does, but it does the most common chores, and does them more efficiently and easier. Numbers is a perfect example. It's not going to replace Excel for the power user, but in my 20 years of using Excel I've only run into one or two people that use anything but the simplest formulas and charts. Numbers is better for 90% of the tasks done by 80% of current Excel users.

Lastly, you own Office, just like I do, but it ain't Universal Binary. MS is coming out next Spring with Office '08, and we all have a decision to upgrade or not. iWork is going to make think about that decision a bit more.

Please correct me if I am wrong but i see no way to do "Solver" functions in Numbers. Solver is a great tool that even neooffice the free version of MS Office does.

If you are not familiar with solver just ask, lots of people would benefit from using it.

You said "As I've said before, iWork doesn't challenge Office in a corporate setting because of M$'s implementation of Information Rights Management (see IRM ) for all Office files."

So, we should like more DRM in Office cause we love it so much in the video and music players that MS offers?????

People do not seem to understand security. I can take a hard copy of a spread sheet out of the trash, scan it and import it. I just retype all the numbers, I can read the formulas and copy them. I have no idea why someone thinks they need super security for an Excel document. If someone sees the document, they can get the info. OK, it can take some work but there is no super easy security except to keep the info secret to begin with.

That is just life. :-(

en

The reviewer is completely wrong about pivot tables. When they're done right, like they were in Lotus Improv, or Quantrix, they're terrific.

-jcr

I own Office, why should I go out and spend money on a program that does less?

You don't "own" your Office. Look at your EULA.

When iWork can be had for less than an Office forced upgrade, it's worth considering. DO NOT underestimate how low MS will reach to get everyone onto Office 08.

Numbers version 1.0 - THE BEST SPREADSHEET SOFTWARE IN THE WORLD.

Funny how Apple's 1.0 product wipes the floor off Microsoft's Xcell that has been around for 20 years.

Just goes to show how crap Microsoft is at software and how inefficient they have been for the last 20 years..

>MDN wrote: Many Mac users — the majority, we believe — think they need Office, but really don't.

You don't need Office if you:
- don't work in an office.
- don't collaborate within an Office environment.
- don't share documents.
- "design" the church newsletter.

I want *and* need MS Office. In so many ways, it's several levels above what iWork is. That's not a knock against iWork, as it wasn't designed as an Office-killer.

It's designed to make higher-end tasks simple for the average user. MS would do its customers a service if they emulated some of the good things about iWork - some of its simplicity would be nice as MS interfaces tend to be clunky.

I've tried iWork for a bit (older version) as well os the free-offices (Neo, etc) and they don't come close to being a replacement for Office.

There are some things I love about Pages that would make Office nicer (especially Word)... such as ease of adjusting graphics-rich layouts. In that respect, it thoroughly beats Office.

But... Office wins in the end.

It's funny. really.

The first software I ever bought for my 128K Mac was MS Word. The first new software I bought for my Mac IIci was Excel.

At the time, they were among the finest, most usable software products available.

Then the porting to Windblows began. MS's software titles bloated, got feature-saturated, and became irritating to use. They also began causing instability on the Mac because of all the vines they installed throughout the system.

But most of all, they absolutely sucked compared to Appleworks In terms of speed and usability.

So, long before it was fashionable, I banished MS from my computers. I haven't used or missed MS's Office bloatware products in over 15 years.

I can't get worked up over a spreadsheet program and Pages is still underpowered for my purposes. I bought iWork 05 and I never use it. I'll stick with QuarkXpress and Appleworks 6.

Once again, I agree MPC guy. I'm not disputing that iWork is more elegant, and when I have time, I'll download and play with Numbers. But if you're a minority Mac user in a Windoze workplace, you need Office.

I said it before in this forum, none of the Office substitutes will cut it in the workplace. It's partly reality -- file transfers are often less than perfect between Office and it's alternatives. And it's partly perception -- the fact that I'm running something that my PC-using colleagues can instantly recognise lessens IT's concerns about having a Mac user in their midst.

Numbers is getting pretty good reviews for a version 1.0 product. I have a feeling it has been ready for quite a while, but Apple did not release it for "strategic" reasons. It's probably more like a version 2.0 product.

I have been using Numbers for 2 days, and like the new versions of Pages and Keynote, lots of little things that are useable.

Yes, it has fewer "features" than Office. But what it has work so well across all 3 apps that I am already doing things that I would never have considered doing in Office because it was too much trouble to set up and use.

Just like OSX.

I admin the network for a large newspaper/magazine corp.

My advice would be this.

1. Buy iWork ($79)
2. Keep Appleworks in reserve. (Free on most all older Macs)
3. Download NeoOffice (Free)
4. Install boot Camp. (Free) Optional*
5. Get a copy of Office 2000 from eBay ($25) Optional*
6. Drag Office for Mac to the trash. That’s where it should be anyway.

This way you get 99% of what you need from iWork and have hedged you bets with other non-M$ software.

@2Shae

3 steps:

1. Choose View > Customize Toolbar

2. Deselect "Use Small Size".

3. There is no third step!

Numbers is a good version 1.0, but I'd like to see it with:
- A status bar that displays name of selected chart, table, or cell
- An auditing option
- An ability to show multiple Inspector tabs at once
- Expanded Paste capabilities, e.g., transpose, formulas only, etc.
- Higher order data analysis capabilities, e.g. ANOVA, Correlation, F-Test, Regression, t-test, histogram, fourier analysis, etc.
- Pivot table capability (or an improvement on this capability)
- Equation solving capabilities, such as solving for a variable or multiple variables, a la Excel's Goal Seek and Solver respectively
- An ability to have a secondary chart axes
- An ability to reverse category order axes
- Improved ability to reorder data series in area plots in order to better control which plot is in front, back, etc.
- An ability to create mixed type charts, e.g., combining column and line
- Curve fitting capabilities, e.g., linear, power curve, exponential, polynomial, etc.

Yes, I send these to Apple

One thing I'd like to see in iWork:

... an interface that is as slick as Aperture's and iTunes.

Agreed for iTunes. But I don't find Aperture's interface so great. I think it's not straight-forward. It is very advanced but it has some limitations and a long learning curve.
For example I didn't find a way to choose a different zoom level than the one imposed by the loupe.

It's *iWork* iWork! iWork!!!
Without an 's' on the end! Sheesh!

Don't download the Free Trial unless you have QuickTime 7.2; iWork won't run without it.

@ MPC Guy & Micro Me:

I work in an office where MS Office is the standard (is there one where it isn't?) and I exchange docs with customers/vendors who are the same. But I've never once, in twenty years, seen a document that really used any serious feature of Word, or Excel, or PowerPoint. Heck, I used more features on Word 5.1 for Mac than any Windows user I know realized even existed. In my observation, the only reason any of my co-workers/customers/vendors use Office is that they don't know anything else is available. (Most are the type that think Internet Explorer is the Internet.) Office is the standard, and not because it's better, but because it's ubiquitous. So as you say, compatibility is king.

The question is, will iWork '08's use of the Office XML format (ironic that Apple figured out how to make it work before Microsoft's MBU could) make it transparently compatible for the people I work with? Because if it does, Office is finished in my office. I'm the guy who writes the checks, and hires or fires the IT crew. And I've already decided that no more PC's are being purchased. Whether Parallels/Windows combos are being purchased, or Mac Office 2008 does, rests solely on this issue of transparent compatibility.

What are your thoughts?

MW=efforts, as in is iWork a serious enough effort to topple the tyranny of M$?

re: I work in an office where MS Office is the standard (is there one where it isn't?)

----

YES - there are countless businesses around the world that do not rely on MIcrosofts software.

And it isnt the standard - it's a monopoly due to gangster-like exterotion and blackmail business tactics.

@Petey

The gangster-like extortion and blackmail etc., goes without saying, LOL. The question is how soon we can prevail!

MW=right as in Macs are always the right way to go.

One irritating thing is that there's no goddam Page Setup… menu item. Y'know like EVERY Macintosh application in existence, except, of course, for crappy Microsoft Excel. I hate those convoluted Office print dialogues.

Okay, I haven't spent too much time with Numbers, but this was the first major screw-up I noticed. Excel's printing disabilities are infuriating.

Why on Earth would Apple copy some of the shittiest and mos Byzantine interface elements, conventions and omissions in existence?

@Galloway. I envy you being in a position to change things.

I've quietly introduced my WIndoze colleagues to the startling notion that there are alternatives to Microsoft -- Safari and Firefox being just two examples. And being the sole Mac user, I can make sneaky purchases of low-end graphics software, e.g., Photoshop Elements, that IT has decreed the PC users may not have (it's great not to be noticed sometimes).

But when it comes to the "core" items, I need both the illusion and reality of conformity. You're probably correct -- the illusion is the more important attribute, and I could otherwise shift across to iWork, now that numbers has arrived, and live with the odd conversion glitch. In the meantime, however, MS Office keep my Mac safe, and I applaud the MS business unit's efforts to make it as Mac-like as possible.

@Mr. Reeee

"One irritating thing is that there's no goddam Page Setup… menu item. Y'know like EVERY Macintosh application in existence, except, of course, for crappy Microsoft Excel. I hate those convoluted Office print dialogues."

Get used to it. Page Setup is being depracated. Future Mac OS X software is supposed to avoid using it. Developers are being told by Apple that they should integrate Page Setup features into the print dialog box in most cases. Page Setup is only supposed to be used in apps where your page setup selections affect the main document directly like an envelope printing app for instance.

Bundle every Mac with iLife and iWork, stir and watch Apple scramble to meet demands...