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Yesterday I reported the iPhone update caused the phone to do a complete re-install of the OS. I was without my iPhone from noon until 5 when I got back home from work. I got back, all was fine, and 1.1.1 was installed as expected.

My iPhone was not bricked as I initially thought.

I disagree with ZDNet’s Dignan.

Apple PROTECT the iPhone.
And AT&T;keep working on improving the service.

dd

MacDailyNews Take: We are iZombies, no one is allowed to criticize the God of Gods, Apple. We lick our anuses in defiance of all criticism.

The article is from ZDNet...what did you expect?

So are we to expect that Apple should engineer around iPhone hacks for the iPhone so that they don't alienate their "loyal" hacker fans? I dont' think so. Apple must be Apple and keep developing for their real consumers (the one's buying the phone to actually use). Hackers are free to keep breaking into the iPhone all they want, just don't polute the rest of us with their sour logic of Apple not playing nice with them. Companies that are trying to sell software to open up the iPhone are just trying to make a quick buck. They don't care about the end-user experience that they are creating. It's fun to hack into something, but that doesn't mean it's a viable business model.

@shlumdaily news take:

How did MDN make it so that "no one is allowed to criticize the God of Gods"? Seems to me that Dignan criticized and MDN responded. Isn't that what reasoned discourse is about?

Or is name calling the best that you're able to do?

Kevin

I believe that reporters and many others like to pick hot topics that stir up feels from the large audience.

But, these issues rarely affect, but a very small number of people.

The number of people with an iPhone is a very small number.

The number of people with a modified iPhone is an extremely small number.

But, the story of Apple causing this very small number of people a problem is crazy. We know that all of these people are world travelers or live in an area without AT&T;service. And, they are just trying to use their phone. I feel so sorry for them. Able we should change some federal law to force Apple to correct this wrong and provide free service to the poor.

The French do not deserve a way to unlock the iPhone.

Hey Shlum, is that really the best insult you could come up with? Man you windows cats just keep consistently proving your lack of imagination, intelligence, and vision.

Keep up the mediocre work!

AT&T;sucks. They're the main reason I don't own an iPhone at the moment.

And iDiots who spend $600 (before the price cut) or $400 for a fabulous, value-for-money device and then proceed to tinker around with it deserve their fate.

As for this writer, same old, same old. The new line is:

1) Apple is suddenly making "mistakes."
2) The "mistakes" are pissing off "loyal" customers (whatever that means).
3) More and more "loyal" customers are abandoning the Apple ship.
4) Therefore, Apple has started to sink.

This calculation too seems to have been done on Excel!

...right... and why are you reading stuff on this site anyway?

All these MSoft Worshippers. You can tell them by their profanity.... sorry, no class.... none at all.

Well, Apple has no choice. They are walking a tight rope and doing pretty good at it. They had to team up with a carrier in order to do things like visual voice mail. If they had made the iPhone really easy to unlock, how would they ever establish any future relationships with other companies. However, if they made the iPhone completely unlockable, they would be alienating part of their user base. So, they didn't turn it into an iBrick on purpose, but if it happened, well, we told you it might and that you should do it at your own risk.

Now Mr. Jobs has to give an out to these early adopters.....

Just my $0.02

The product is what it is. As a manufacturer, I release a product and if you don't like it, get an alternative!

If you buy a Ford to put a Chevy engine on it, you do it at your own risk! Don't expect Ford to make parts for your modified car or to fix your engine.

If you want something you can hack at your leisure, get Linux! Linux was made for that.

As Andrew Dice Clay said: "If you don'/t speak the language, get the F$%& out of the country!" (cound be read as "if you don't agree with the terms, get another device!")

This is a phone, not an open source project. Don't like it? Buy a motorola.

When did Apple Computer become open season for hackers. Why should Apple have to placate a group that represents the smallest fraction of the minority of the customer base. These hackers act like it is their right to do what ever they want with the phone. Apple has certain legal obligations to ATT. Thats why the phone is built the way it was. If the hackers want to hack let them do it, at their own risk. Hackers, a bunch of cry babies.

Apple, learning from Micro$oft, has to protect their stuff, protect it early, and protect it often. Micro$oft is getting a bad trying desperately to protect their stuff too much, way too late. The volume of sign ons is way greater than those complaining about Apple's monopolization tactics. Again, you can monopolize as long as you have the best product and best product cycle and best product upgrade path. Micro$oft never had the best product, and look at them now...desperate. Go ahead, buy Facebook, Yahoo, and whoever else to try and compete, but the four horsemen have a long term plan and will stay strong. AAPL, GOOG, AMZN, and yes, RIM. Later, AAPL and RIM are going to compete head to head and Apple will win, but, for now, they are on the same page against the spiraling Micro$oft.

I have a recording of my grandmother's voice saying, "Boy, answer that damn phone!"

It was my ringtone.

I'm not stealing anyone's stupid pathetic who cares crappy ass music. I just liked Lucy's voice on my phone. My $600 phone. Or is it my phone? Maybe I didn't read the docs properly. Apparently Apple still OWNS my phone and will direct what I do with it.

To say that I am disillusioned with Apple is an understatement.

@Jim -

I had the same problem as you -- an error during the updating process required a "restore" on the iPhone, and resyncing all the data. Why in the world would you think your phone was dead?

The whole process was completely straightforward (if a bit annoying), and on-screen directions made it perfectly clear that this was no big deal. It took about two hours to reload about six gigs of data on my phone. Your iPhone was no doubt waiting for you ready to go long before you showed up after work.

Considering what a pain reinstalling an OS can be (even the Mac OS), I thought this was a relatively painful process.

I wonder if you are who the dumb-ass over at ZDNet was referring to as unhacked customers reporting their phones were "bricked"?

There is no "war" with hackers. Please... What happened when hackers hacked iTunes' DRM or hacked Mac OS X to run on generic Intel hardware? Did Apple "lose" those wars. Nope, Apple just made a few adjustments, and those hackers where defeated. Yes, they could have come back with another hack, but apparently, it wasn't worth their effort. I guess even hackers these days have to make money too.

@Grifterus-

Your analogy is flawed. I don't think that anyone who physically modifies their iPhone expects Apple to support it. Changing software, though, is reversible. If Apple were to release an update that breaks unlocked iPhones, and then doesn't allow folks a way to reset the software back to factory stock, then I'd call that a problem. Apple doesn't put this requirement on the desktops or laptops, and since the iPhone runs a variant of OS X, there's no reason why some one who's clever enough to do it shouldn't be able to change the software. They should, however, be able to reset the software, just as you can do on a desktop or laptop from Apple. Besides which, even everyone's "favorite" law, the DMCA, has an exception for unlocking phones so that they'll be able to work on other than the original network. If the morons who passed the DMCA even see the ability to change networks as worthwhile and something that should be legally protected, why do have an issue with folks who want to buy an iPhone but don't want AT&T;'s service?
The iPhone is a great device, but there are plenty of ways it could be better. I'd love to own one, except that I'm not willing to change service plans (no one's been able to beat my current monthly price), and I'm not willing to pay nearly double what I do now every month just to get an iPhone. Besides which, with an iPhone, I'd lose some capabilities that my current phone has (save, view, and edit Office docs, save and view PDF's, run 3rd party apps), and it's not a good trade for me even with the features that are exclusive to the iPhone.
And before any fanboys pipe up accusing me of being a Microsoft hack, I've been a Mac user for the last 14 years. I only use Windows at work, and then only when necessary.

Thanks Brian
"We know that all of these people are world travelers or live in an area without AT&T;service. And, they are just trying to use their phone."
Agree Andrew
" Hackers are free to keep breaking into the iPhone all they want, just don't polute the rest of us with their sour logic of Apple not playing nice with them"

If you want an iPhone, you have 2 choices,
choice 1/ abide by the terms with your Countries carrier,
choice 2/ unlock/ hack what ever, but do at your own risk, and do not go bitching if they get one up on you

I live in Mexico, have an unlocked iPhone, LOVE IT
I am happy with the original version of software, no need to update, until the hackers have a fix
If it is permanently turned into a brick, I will buy a new one as soon as that is unlocked, I figure if I have to buy 3 iPhones a year, so be it, well worth $100.00 per month just to have one.

Any way, love having a reason to fly to Miami

You would think after reading this and similar articles, that everyone and their brother were unlocking their iPhones. I seriously doubt that anywhere near 1% of iPhone owners have even thought about doing it. So it is unlikely that this is going to have any impact, one way or another, on Apple's reputation.

anyone that wants to hack an iphone is prolly the type to d/l pirated music. you hacks just dont get it. its not your right to hack someones product and demand they support your lame ass hack. now stfu and go back to your rooms/basement/garage. the VAST majority of actual consumers dont care for your lame ass hacks and are buying the iphone cause they want one. only idiots buy iphones to hack em. i mean wtf get a life. go play wow or something....noobs i swear.

My first Mac was the 128k version in 1984. And for the first time in the personal history of that relation between me and Apple, I fondamentaly disagreeing with Apple about their deals with IT&T;and all others exclusive foreign networks about the iPhone.

Why?:
- Because Apple make a greedy deal with a non computer enterprise (AT&T;);
- Because this deal with IT&T;impeach an international usage of their GSM product (SIM card locked to AT&T;). I f ican use a MacBook everywhere in the World. Why not with an iPhone, at least as a phone?;
- Because Apple want to impose this same IT&T;deal in foreign countries, when albeit laws in those places prohibite the obligation of joint sale of service (phones networks) and hardware (iPhone). And that prohibition explains perhaps the the problem now with Orange Network in France ;
-Because the relation between Apple and IT&T;have a very strange similitary with the harm job between M$ and all those pc product enterprises, but in reverse...;

I think that they should get a developer kit up and running asap. I don't care about unlockers, but the energy focused on this technology is precious. Resisting or letting it travel unguided is dangerous and sad. A developer kit would take the ire out of it and channel the efforts toward good, not evil.

I have to agree with the business on this one. Anyone that modifies a product knows that they will eventually be assed out when an update comes along. Or that maybe a certain item won't work. It's not Apple's fault. They told people what was going to happen. Do people get all up in arms when they modify they car to the extent that it voids the factory warranty? No, they understand the risk involved.

The people that are mad are the ones that went out of their way to try and be cool and have the newest gadget possible. They unlocked their phones and showed that it worked with T-Mobile. Good for them. Now what? They should've known that eventually something would come along and possible render it useless.

The people making a big deal about this are the ones that feel like they've been cheated because they just got screwed. They shouldn't have tried to be part of the cool crowd and hacking their iPhone for some assinine reason like "I hate AT&T;" or "It doesn't have something I want on it." Well, look at you now.


MDN Word - gone. Kind of appropriate.

Plenty of these "hacks" have nothing to do with AT&T;, but come from the whining development community who just want to install apps on the thing. Presumably they'd want to do this regardless of carrier.

The lack of clear logic regarding Apple's high Consumer Reports ratings is incredible.

Apple is tied for 3rd place with Gateway in units sold in the U.S. (See link below) Therefore, they actually have more customers than Lenovo. This "Apple gets high marks from consumers because they are just a tiny fraction of Steve jobs cultists" refrain is way past getting old. Come on ZDNet! You guys do this for a living! And this is the best reasoning you can come up with?

Might it be that Apple really does have stellar customer service? Is that *so* hard to imagine?

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027527

This site sucks... What kind of an idiotic pseudo-statistic is this?

"MacDailyNews Take: Some portion of 0.33% of the U.S was upset that they paid the price on the box and then it changed. The other 99.67% of the U.S. population only sees a much better price."

You guys aren't apple fanboys, you guys are apple whores. No sense of right and wrong. Pathetic. Let the tyranny reign.

Mixed feelings on this one.....

Re: hacking it to get out of using AT&T;.... I disagree with the whole 'carrier protection' thing and think all phones should be forced to be 'portable' between carriers using like technology.... BUT since that is not the case.. and our govt allows this carrier monopolization, I think Apple/AT&T;has the right to prevent people from hacking to get around it - I am positive that the AT&T;contracts subsidize the development of future iPhones.

BUT ... and a big BUT ! ... I expect Apple, if they are going to sell this iPhone as some great handheld computing device that RUNS on OS X.... that this computing device be OPEN to program development by 3rd parties.... we shouldn't be locked in to dealing with ONLY the software apps that Apple 'approves'.

Apple puts out great stuff.... including software... but they are far from covering the large gap of providing software solutions for all we need.

Come On Apple.... its OS X - let us all use it to the full advantages it can allow !!!!!!!!!!

> This site sucks... What kind of an idiotic pseudo-statistic is this?

I totally agree with the "statistic" whether the number is correct or not. The number of iPhones sold before the price drop is almost insignificant compared to the number of potential customers. While that small number of "early adopters" may have been upset, the vast majority was feeling smug and superior because they weren't "suckers." So they are now even more likely to buy an iPhone.

Tom stated "whining development community who just want to install apps on the thing"

OH COME ON Tom ! Tell me you are ok with buying a pc and not being able to go find OEM software to put on it.... tell me that you have never installed a non-Apple 'approved' program on your Mac... (if you're smart enough to own a mac).

Yeah, sure Tom, I spend hours and hours of my time developing software ..... JUST so I can say I put it on a given 'machine'... forget the possibility of productivity and usefulness... I NEVER take those into consideration during development.

Blah...blah...blah

Apple can do what it likes in the US. In many EU countries phones have to be unlocked on request. For example 'in the UK service providers are required to unlock a mobile phone if requested to do so. But they are allowed to charge a fee (usually around £30) for this service.' If you want an unlocked iPhone Apple will not brick in the future buy one of the UK versions and insist it be unlocked. If the iPhone is ever to come to Belgium it will have to be unlocked because selling locked phones in Belgium is illegal.

I think this hacker demand is far less than what people realize. By the way it's reported you'd think 90% of iPhone users are hacking their phones when the truth is, it's probably closer to 2%. They just make more noise than the people who are perfectly happy with the way their phone is out of the box.

TJ,

For all the screaming of productivity and usefulness apps from the dev community, what I've seen are Etch a Sketch, Popcorn Popping, Draw a Pirate Face apps, and similar. Please.

You wanna write apps for the iPhone? Use the web. You think you're too good to use the web? Sucks to be you. A hack is still a hack.

I'll say this much: When an SDK for the iPhone does become available (and it will eventually) there had better be some KILLER apps from the dev community for all the crying they're doing now. Sadly, I think the first thing we'll get is Pirate Faces 2.0.

This whole "Apple should let me use the carrier of my choice" thing is kinda silly. Especially here in america where there are only 2 choices, AT&T;and T-mobile. T-mobile has a much smaller and older network. Why would anyone have such a strong attachment to T-mobile? I was on T-mobile before I bought an iPhone and after switching I got a much better signal in the places I go. (San Francisco bay area)

Second of all, this is just the kind of thing that Apple does to differentiate itself from it's competitors. They take responsibility for the entire user experience. I'm certain that visual voicemail will not be the last carrier specific feature that Apple will add. Also, the activation process was amazing... does anyone miss having to spend 20 mintues in a cell phone store activating your service? I certainly dont.

First, I think Apple is just paying legal lipservice to protect their relationship with AT&T;. Ultimately, it does not hurt Apple too much if people unlock or jailbreak their iPhones.

However, it's ultimately up to the users who have hacked iPhones to make sure they can do a software restore to get any Apple updates, and then they can go and redo their hacks. That's their risk and responsibility, not Apple's.

If you expect Apple to improve on the iPhone, then DON'T UPGRADE - Plain and simple. It's not Apple's job to code around your janky hacks. It's their job to provide the best feature set possible that conforms to their hardware and sofware designs.

It seems, to me, that the same people that bitch about the hacking are basically the same crowd as internet pirates. Same whiny crowd that bully cyberspace. ME ME ME ME ME FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE. Ugh.

Ask Dignan-berry if Microsoft supports hackers that install Linux on an Xbox.


Hit whore.

liv,

U.S. pop = ~300m
iPhone sold before price cut = ~1m
Percentage of users who bought at launch price = 0.33%

So, you see, simpleton, MDN's number is completely, utterly, and perfectly correct.

Tom... you apparently have a very low regard for developers...

What you fail to understand... at least in your ranting... is that even the base OS X platform is created by developers.....

I agree with you re: the list of useless apps that you identified for the iPhone.... but you are also attacking a MUCH larger demographic of developers that DO write productive apps also.... not to say that some of us don't enjoy the occasional game also.

I don't think I am too good for the web.... but I also hate being limited in developing apps that are limited to running on some 'middle layer interpreted' platform.... it is like trying to develop pc apps in BASIC where you have very little control over the underlying OS.

I could see if you were getting a discout from ATT or any other subscriber when purchsing the Iphone, But you are paying full price plus requireing you to buy a data plan with the voice plan from att

If I but a Iphone in germany from TMobile, will it work with Tmobile here (same company, differant companys)

Three comments:

1) I don't buy the argument that Apple had no choice and had to go with one carrier. This was a business decision, not a technical decision. For example, the visual voicemail feature could have been implemented without a close partnership. Apple could have simply run the voicemail servers itself. Unanswered calls get forwarded to the Apple voicemail servers (normal GSM forwarding). If the phone is on, it forwards the call and so it can just check for the voicemail audio file (over the internet) a few minutes later. No need for help from the carrier.

2) Apple should spend a little effort on tools to help restore phones that were disabled after the 1.1.1 update. Chalk the cost up to good PR. Apple is contractually obliged to prevent unlocks, not to punish unlockers. Make them wait a bit, though, to discourage unlocking. And don't promise to do this next time.

3) Apple should produce a 3rd party developer kit and provide an official way (through iTunes) to get native apps onto the iPhone. Unapproved apps will be less convenient because they'll disappear after updates, but Apple should try to guarantee that, as long as an app doesn't change anything that a restore doesn't undo, it won't hurt the iPhone.

Wow! I was just about to jump in and buy an iphone this morning when I heard a customer complain agitatedly about his iphone dying. I put my visacard back and left the store. I'm glad I did so. I'd been feeling hesitant anyway. I think I'll upgrade my Nokia!

"when I heard a customer complain agitatedly about his iphone dying."

WHEW! That was close! You almost really fscked up!
I also heard from someone, somewhere that air is bad for you!
Like OMFG! ! !

TJ,

I have a very high regard for developers, and work with them every single day. Have for years. That does NOT mean they cannot pick fights that are ridiculous. I think this is one of those times. I consider it whining and misguided.

Crying in your beer solves nothing. This has nothing to do with development, per se, but rather an illogical ranting, lack of patience, and loss of productivity (since a developer pissing about the iPhone is not working on something else).

I understand you disagree, but let's be clear that writing me off as some sort of developer-hater is way off base.

@SHIVA

"Your analogy is flawed. I don't think that anyone who physically modifies their iPhone expects Apple to support it. Changing software, though, is reversible. If Apple were to release an update that breaks unlocked iPhones, and then doesn't allow folks a way to reset the software back to factory stock, then I'd call that a problem. Apple doesn't put this requirement on the desktops or laptops, and since the iPhone runs a variant of OS X, there's no reason why some one who's clever enough to do it shouldn't be able to change the software. They should, however, be able to reset the software, just as you can do on a desktop or laptop from Apple."

Well, if you know how to mod the phone in the first place knowing that there's no way to get the phone back, you should be intelligent enough to write the software for reset yourself. So, if you *want* apple's updates, make sure you reset the software first, apply the updates, and put your hacks again.

"Besides which, even everyone's "favorite" law, the DMCA, has an exception for unlocking phones so that they'll be able to work on other than the original network. If the morons who passed the DMCA even see the ability to change networks as worthwhile and something that should be legally protected, why do have an issue with folks who want to buy an iPhone but don't want AT&T;'s service?"

If that's the reason, why did you buy the iPhone in the first place knowing fully well that it will work only with AT&T;. iPhone today comes only with AT&T;. Take it or leave it.

"The iPhone is a great device, but there are plenty of ways it could be better. I'd love to own one, except that I'm not willing to change service plans (no one's been able to beat my current monthly price), and I'm not willing to pay nearly double what I do now every month just to get an iPhone. Besides which, with an iPhone, I'd lose some capabilities that my current phone has (save, view, and edit Office docs, save and view PDF's, run 3rd party apps), and it's not a good trade for me even with the features that are exclusive to the iPhone."

Don't try to patronize anyone. In the current form, iPhone does not do the job. So, stop saying I would like to have iPhone but.... blah blah blah. You should not buy a product that doesn't do what you want to do. And don't try to buy a product thinking that you can make it do what you want to; and then complaining that it doesn't do what you want it to do.


"And before any fanboys pipe up accusing me of being a Microsoft hack, I've been a Mac user for the last 14 years. I only use Windows at work, and then only when necessary."

No one cares a damn who you are; as long as your point is valid.


Everyone talks about Apple backstabbing its "consumers." Who are these consumers? I define consumers as those who buy the product knowing the "limitations" of the product more than the features of the product. If you don't like certain restrictions on the product, just don't buy it. But, people can't do that. They want the product which doesn't fit their requirements and then complain about it. Why?

These people who complain are the geeks who try to break anything you give them. As you grow bigger, you will see more of these people. But, they are not "consumers." Even if you are an Apple fan, and you would like to have iPhone, but you don't like the tie-up to AT&T;, just let this round pass. May be things will change in future.

These people who bitch and moan are simply some insignificant unsuccessful geeks (their unsuccessful nature is shown in the fact that they did not even bother to create a restore software to get the device back to its original form.). They are crying because they are unsuccessful. They don't care about the so-called consumers either. They will always find faults with everything you give them; but will never make one thing by themselves which 100 people would like.

1. Along with Hot Carl, I can't stand AT&T;, and will not voluntarily do business with them. (I switched my landline phone service from SBC to Cox when I found out that SBC was going to become AT&T;.) I think that adopting the AT&T;name, with all of its attendant bad-will, was one of the stupidest business moves in history.

2. A question of value arises with the iPhone and locking it into AT&T;. Most "locked" phones are subsidized by the carrier to the tune of a couple of hundred dollars. And the iPhone, as good as it is, IMNTBHO, just isn't that much better (at least, for what I use a mobile phone for).

3. Several people commented that "software should be easy to change/fix." The problem is that embedded software, or "firmware", in many cases might as well be hardware. Secure systems tend to need the right firmware in order to update the firmware itself; if a firmware update (say, a hack) overwrites code or data on which an update to a "standard" system depends, it's very possible that the next "standard" update to the firmware of the phone may cause it to no longer fully function, or even have the ability to update, and might require physical intervention to operate again. In other words, "bricked."

3. There is a bias in American attitude, tradition, and law which favors open competition over "lock-in" deals. While Apple and AT&T;have the right to make such a "lock-in" deal, it really seems more something that AT&T;would do - not Apple. To say that this move is out of character for Apple, at least since the return of Steve Jobs, is I think an understatement.

4. I'm still a Verizon customer. Though I'd really like to have an iPhone, right now - all things considered - it's just not worth it.

It took four tries and two computers to get the firmware on my non-hacked iPod Touch updated this morning. Because of that, I am about to leave for lunch with a minus my music library. IMHO, at the very least, Steve Jobs owes me a personal apology.

Seriously, though, next time a firmware update comes out, I am not if I dare risk it again.