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They offer pre-orders on an item that is not available for another year? That's just cruel.

Memory: 8 GB ?????
what the ????????

Is there any record of items that made the "top bestselling" that are not yet available? I mean, could this be a new record? 6 months to go for the US and maybe a year for Europe...

As Billy Fuccillo would say, "This is going to be HHUUGGEE!"

Peace.

Sounds fishy to me... this far in advance and at that price? I doubt this is as it seems.

The price includes 19% VAT and no carrier contract. And Amazon also guarantees to adjust the price should Apple charge less on the actual release.

So it's apparently the maximum estimated price plus tax of the unbundled version, with the final price probably being lower, the carrier-subsidized price lower again and the net price without tax (for business customers) lower yet again.

Not entirely out of whack when viewed that way.

I think this is some kind of joke where a person can set up his/her own store then plugged this into the Amazon system. (Or somebody at Amazon is playing a funny one.)
The price lists 999 Euros for the iPhone. That equals $1,261.!!!! )

Also note that in the description text it says:
" Im Angebot von Amazon.de seit: 17. August 2004"
Which translates to: "Offered by Amazon since August 17, 2004"
http://tinyurl.com/vmuwy

Yeah, sure.
The iPhone is not even shown on the Apple Germany website, so how can Amazon be selling it?
http://www.apple.com/de/
Amazon.com does not even have it listed on the website, so how can Amazon.de have it?
April Fools comes early this year.

By the way: As far as I'm aware, release in Europe is not scheduled a year from now but in Q4/07, which very probably means well in time for the holiday season.

But since Apple can't force the hand of the european regulation institutions, they'll have to allow some time for approval and they'll also have to complete negotiations with the respective european carriers for the bundled versions of the iPhone...

And the 4 BG iPhone is number 6 on the best-selling ranking and selling at only 899 Euro:

http://tinyurl.com/y9bels

LOL

Let the trading in Apple future products begin! LOL

I think it's just cruel of MDN to post this article imediately following the one with John Dvoark predicting that the iPhone will fail. John knows he's a bonehead. There's no need to rub it in!

Lurker_PC, that's "HHHUUGGEEE TOM"

I understand that this is an amazing device, but over a grand US is a lot of dough to shell out for a smart phone.

Hopefully the economics of cost will drop down quickly for mere mortals like myself to join in the fun.

This is most certainly a genuine offer from Amazon.

It'll be price adjusted and, most important for those ordering now, 'first come first served'.


When people have to wait for a much desired product, it creates anticipation and positive publicity.

This was the case with Mercedes Benz cars throughout the eighties and nineties. You always had to wait for your Merc. This wasn't policy on the part of Daimler, they just couldn't keep up with the orders, but it never had a negative effect on sales.

There were people who couldn't afford a Merc. but used to order one, and then sell their place in the queue. I knew a student who did this in the eighties. Of course you could only do it once.

Hey, perhaps I should try this now with the iPhone!

Someone send this link to Dvorack!

The list price is without a phone companie's subsidization. The price seems right.

oops, ping, already made my point. nevermind.

Dvorak may be right for one reason.

That phone costs ONE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED NINETY ONE DOLLARS on that German website.

Apple says $599 with a 2 year contract. We all know how the asshole cell phone companies work in this country.

You can get it at $599 with a 2 year contract, IF YOU'RE NOT ALREADY A CUSTOMER. If you are, screw you, we already have your money. You've been a customer for 5 years already. We don't care about you. We want new people. We give them the break.

I want an Apple Phone, but I don't want to pay $1500 for it.

And knowing Cingular/att, that's what it's going to cost.

You can get it at $599 with a 2 year contract, IF YOU'RE NOT ALREADY A CUSTOMER. If you are, screw you, we already have your money. You've been a customer for 5 years already. We don't care about you. We want new people. We give them the break.

Buying a contract-subsidized phone is basically a buy on credit which you're paying off through your monthly carrier fee. So it's not surprising that the carrier would hold you to actually paying off your old phone before offering you another phone on credit with them being stuck with half the cost of your discarded one.

Not defending the carriers in most of their greedy machinations, but some people's expectations of getting everything for free have become so unreal it's almost funny!

Ping,

I don't expect to get everything for free. I have been a cingular customer for oh, 10 years at least now. What I expect is to be treated with a modicum more of respect than someone who walks in off the street.

I don't expect anything to be free. I expect continued patronage to count for something.

It does with every other business in the world. The cliché "Since you're a good customer..." is, well, a cliché.

With Cell phone companies in the U.S. it's sign on the dotted line, now get lost. There is no such thing as service. There is no such thing as showing that you are appreciated as a client. The only time they contact you is when the bill is slightly late and they do that by shutting off your phone.

I don't want anything for fricking free, I want cell phone companies to act like they care about their existing customers.

In additiion, my real point is that when that phone comes out, people can expect to see it costing well over a thousand dollars.

That's not going to be a huge selling item. Hell in some states you might have to pay a luxury tax on it. The phone won't sell to young people and teens because they can't afford it.

The phone won't sell to old people cause they won't give a hoot.

The market is then relatively small. You get young adults with money. The key phrase being "with money."

Is there any surprise that Apple's demographic is turning out to be older adults with money?

Even the store where I purchase my Macs, Melrose Mac in Hollywood, they recognize that I come to them for everything.

When I come to buy a new computer the first questions is, "Is this for you?" If the computer is for me I can look forward to a discount.

The real reason I go there though is that they make you feel like family, not some jerk they're forced to deal with, as do cell phone companies.

The last surveys I'm aware of paint a different picture of Apple's customer demographic.

The Price indicated by Amazon is obviously a maximum price, possibly subject to adjustment and including the german 19% VAT.

The price has to be paid either way - either up front or through a monthly fee.

All your arguments above about the price have been made pretty much verbatim about the iPod. And I think we agree that they were not realistic back then either.

I'm not familiar with the US carriers' customer relations, but that's still a separate issue. It could well be that Cingular is screwing their customers, but demanding a certain fixed contract interval before another phone can be subsidized would not be outrageous by itself.

No offense theioniousMac, but you are basically paying off your subsidized phone over the length of the contract.

It's like me calling Nissan Credit and saying, I've been paying you at 4.9% for 3 years of my 5 year CONTRACT, but now I see that you are offering new customers 2.9% on an updated car. I want that deal!

The problem is not only do people nowadays want everything for free, but they don't want to complete their end of the bargain as well.

I understand Schmluss, but over the years, I've paid of countless subsidies. In fact, the way the math actually works out for a cell phone company is that existing customers are paying off the subsidies for new clients.

It's like Nissan Credit extending a lower price and interest rate to a new car buyer because they can charge me, an existing buyer, one with proven credit, more.

As a consultant, I charge clients that purchase more time, and regular time, less. New clients and clients who call me once in a while pay the full rate.

This is real silly - Apple Germany does not even have a link to a photo of the iPhone on their website....no news at all about the iPhone. And yet Amazon Germany is selling something that who knows will ever be available in Germany??? There is no AT&T;(Cingular) over here.
But then I could dream and see a different 3G version of the Apple iPhone over here available through multiple phone carriers...yeah, dream on.

I would be somewhat surprised if the iPhone didn't suddenly sprout UMTS capability between now and its european release...

And of course it will be offered by one of our local carriers - my guess for Germany would be T-Com.

Apple wouldn't stand a chance in Germany without UMTS, 3G. People here are already so used to hispeed - anything less would just be ignored.

"understand Schmluss, but over the years, I've paid of countless subsidies. In fact, the way the math actually works out for a cell phone company is that existing customers are paying off the subsidies for new clients."

With Cingular you're eligible for another discounted handset once you finish the original lock in period. All you have to do is ask.

Secondly most companies these days, Cingular included, separate their customers in to the valuable ones and deadbeats. They identify the 10% who make a lot of money for the company, vs the 90% who make very little money for the company or actually cost the company money to service. They then service these different groups accordingly. Theolonius, it sounds like from what you say Cingular has you down as a "deadbeat" that they're trying to "fire" as a customer.

Current cell phone service companies have created a new low. It's not 'used car salesmen' anymore-- cell phone industry has taken that crown and I have more than enough negative experiences through Verizon Wireless to prove it. I have caught them numerous times, trying to cheat me. I hope Apple's attention to detail for the consumer's needs parlays over to the service provider as well. To me, this is just as important as the features on the iPhone.

This is utter nonsense. 999 euro's? I can buy a maxed-out MacMini for less and a MacBook for just a little more. Let everybody just wait till Apple officialy launches the iPhone in Europe.
Enough said!

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