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May 10, 08 - 09:16 am Comment from: deepdish

I am truly baffled. Microsoft has how many programmers? They have how much money?

I kinda feel sorry for them.

And yet people put up with them. What makes their users so enslaved to their incompentancy? Why are their users so scared to try a mac.

I am tired of hearing "Oh, our school had macs a long time ago and I didn't like them"

Bunch of stupid lemmings.

huh, great one!!

I need to have one single Windows PC for Office: The UPS Worldship Software ist only available for Windows :( (I´ll swap logistics provider in a couple of weeks, and that POS will go).
Installed SP3: Continuos reboots, yuck. (I´m restoring the PC to SP2)

My wife needs a Windows copy as well (The one leading translation memory is Trados - A company owned by Microsoft, therefore offering only a version for Windows:((( )
She use it through vmware on our iMac 20", 2.4GhZ without problems. (though slow).
Installed SP3: Works like a charm.

Macintosh: It just works ))

Matt

May 10, 08 - 09:35 am Comment from: TowerTone

When told of this, Ballmer was heard to say "'Reboot' my ass!"

I am truly baffled. Microsoft has how many programmers? They have how much money?

And they still couldn't catch something as obvious as a continuous reboot problem.

Doesn't MS test anything before release?? Or is this just the MS "we know it doesn't work but we'll ship anyway"?

Heh, at least XP has that fabled fast boot time.

May 10, 08 - 09:41 am Comment from: CandTsmac

@ matt

(The one leading translation memory is Trados - A company owned by Microsoft, therefore offering only a version for Windows:((( )

With Apple making iTunes, Bonjour, Safari for winblows isn't this just another sign os a monopolist company using its market share to drive out the competition.

When will the Law actually stand for something again?

I hate them!

May 10, 08 - 09:44 am Comment from: Cubert

@deepdish,

"What makes their users so enslaved to their incompentancy? Why are their users so scared to try a mac."

Exactly! I have wondered this for years, too. The analogy I use to point out this insanity to Winblows users is one of a car. If someone buys a Ford and it breaks down every week, will they buy a Ford next time? No, but for some reason logic goes out the window when it comes to their PC.

May 10, 08 - 09:45 am Comment from: JAYGEE

I downloaded SP3 via Windows Update, for my XP machine. It failed to install. I haven't bothered to try installing it again.

May 10, 08 - 09:46 am Comment from: Cubert

"Any customer who experiences a problem with Windows XP SP3 installation should contact Microsoft Customer Support Services,'" Albanesius reports."

Any takers on how long until their call center is overwhelmed?

May 10, 08 - 10:24 am Comment from: dd

Yep. This happened to me. Continuous rebooting. So...
I removed my Bootcamp partition (15gb) and re-partitioned (9gb). I have installed Windows SP2 back on the system, but MS, in its infinite "wisdom," removed all security updates. You now have to download SP3 to get everything up to that point. F that! Here's hoping the latest Avast! catches any bs that gets through Windows' "defenses." lol

yes, we get it, Microsoft is crappy. However, to their defense, their OS has to work and be tested on literally hundreds of thousands of combinations of hardware (maybe more) . Apple only has to deal with dozens. This is one of the advantages of creating your own hardware and software.

May 10, 08 - 10:32 am Comment from: shen

the microsoft plan for making vista better than XP is proceeding well i see.....

May 10, 08 - 10:43 am Comment from: dd

I hate the MS apologists that defend MS by stating "their OS has to work and be tested on literally hundreds of thousands of combinations of hardware."

That's NOT my fault and it should NOT be my problem. If MS can't guarantee that their SP3 update won't screw up somebody's fully working SP2, then they should leave well enough alone. Give me the incremental updates, not one big, sloppy mess to screw up everything.

And this is why thousands of people are petitioning Windows to keep supporting XP?
That's it. I've lost all patience and empathy.
Windows users are stupid.
Stupid stupid stupid.
The Charter of Rights and Freedoms must be amended. Continued use of Microsoft products IS grounds for discrimination.
But I guess Windows users should be protected under the same rights as afforded to the developmentally handicapped and the insane.
*sigh*

So this is their plan to promote Vista, make XP totally unusable. The quip about what happens when you let the sales and marketing guy run the company is getting truer by the day.

I agree with "dd" on that front.
M$ shot themselves in the foot with that decision a couple of decades ago.
If I read "CandTsmac" correctly, I don't agree with your statement:
Making your own software is not a monopoly as long as long as you give the chance for other companies, programmers to add their own products and see what the users end up deciding as good or poor software and you don't do everything in your power to mess up their efforts at providing a viable alternative. Apple has for years left the gate open for other software developers to add to the Mac experience with sometimes adding some of the developed software to their OS. Though the same may be said with M$ at times, they just did not get standards going at the beginning and stuck with them. Their latest browser IE7 fares poorly at the "acid test 2", let alone "acid test 3" where Safari can at least boast 75% on AT3. Even iCab rates 75% on AT3 and the browser developer can't even come close to having the money and personnel that M$ has.

Standards do matter and just because M$ does what it bloody well wants with a supremacist attitude does not mean that it is better. Users are fed up with the mess the company has created and the managers of M$ are completely out of tune with the reality of modern day computing.

What has M$ done well in the past decade?
What has Ballmer done well in the past decade for M$?

Please let us know!

May 10, 08 - 11:50 am Comment from: iDon't

It's an evil plan to make people switch to Vista.

May 10, 08 - 11:55 am Comment from: iDon't

Happy Mother's Day to all. Get your mom a Mac.

May 10, 08 - 12:05 pm Comment from: Spark

Last week I attempted to install the SP3 on my Parallels XP at least a dozen times. I kept being told that I didn't have enough space on the drive, so would clean and clear space. Never had enough room. Now I consider myself lucky it failed. Windows users are used to this and just take it for granted that this crap goes on for all computer users.

Yeah, some applications require Windows, but for everything else, please do what MDN and every Mac users recommends: just Get a Mac!

May 10, 08 - 12:15 pm Comment from: Mozfan

Shen and Stephen...

are exactly right. This is just MicroSoft's way of making sure everyone is ready to move on to Vista.

Simple as that. I'm so glad I switched. It's been 4 glorious years and those around me are switching as well. At least my parents won't suffer the latest Windows problems.


~M

This is why OS X should only run on Macs. The PCs have too many hardware combinations to for any one operating system to be reliable.

Windows is now a cancerous zombie that needs to be constantly fed new code. It is best to shoot it in the head now, before it is too late.

I know why ... they developed SP3 on SP2 or Vista. Either way, when you pile shit on shit, all you'll come up with is a bigger pile of shit.

> What has M$ done well in the past decade?

Squander monopoly money in a futile attempt to start other monopolies?

> What has Ballmer done well in the past decade for M$?

Two possibilities here, ignoring the obvious simian possibility:
He's either on Jobs' payroll or Stevie has photographs of Steve doing something so horrible that exposure in public of said photos would just break the man. Since Ballmer has enough dough, we can eliminate option one.

— Service Pack 3 adds several networking and security improvements, and compatibility with Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008 security credential providers.

One step forward and two steps back.

— Meanwhile, Microsoft reported this week that users who install XP SP3 will not be able to downgrade from Internet Explorer 7 to IE6.

MW: Situation "Normal" - All F*cked Up.

May 10, 08 - 12:42 pm Comment from: It's About Time

In a world of polarities, everyone has an unalienable birth right to experience the essence of genius or stupidity. Apple and Microsoft have certainly filled the niche as a provider for one of these realities.

MS CHOOSE to 'support and accomodate 3rd-party software' — INCLUDING developing Mac software — why is it their customer's fault that they have a difficult time doing so?

Why is the public's fault that MS can't say no to every box maker out there?

Make NO mistake, this WILL be the very last straw for another million Windows users.

"Enough is enough. Microsoft has driven me mad one time too often. I'm going Mac".

May 10, 08 - 02:04 pm Comment from: jjjj

Zune Tang<reboot>
Zune Tang<reboot>
Zune Tang<reboot>
Zune Tang<reboot>

Perhaps this is an upgrade strategy. They can't get people to switch from XP, so they are going to sabotage their XP systems with a crappy update in an attempt to force Vista.

Not to defend Windows, but mine worked just fine on Parallels.

YES, I DO NEED IT FOR WORK!

Some of us do that, you know.

I wish I didn't need a windows partition on my MacBook. There are just WAY too many apps that I need that are windows ONLY :(

@CandTsmac

In that case Apple is probably just as bad: After buying Logic Audio, first thing they axed the windows version.

So, can´t really blame MS, at least not anymore than Apple.

@ iDon't

That might actually be true. It sounds like wild conspiracy theory, but sabotaging XP to force Windows users to move to Vista is just the slimy crap Microsoft is known to do.

Apple really needs to jump on this situation with a new "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" ad.

Man, people on here can't even admit to the fact that testing on an open platform with hundreds of thousands of hardware and software combinations is exponentially more difficult than testing a dozen or so combinations of hardware and software that was all built in-house. My point is not to say it's okay for Microsoft to release crappy products, I'm just stating a truth. If someone cannot admit that, then I'd call them a fanboy.

To dd: I'd say it BECAME your problem when you bought a PC. MDN would probably even call you "stupid" for doing so.

May 10, 08 - 04:25 pm Comment from: JAYGEE

Microsoft deliberately make XP SP3 go wrong, to encourage people to upgrade to Vista, but when they install Vista, that accidently goes wrong lol.

Seems like a lose-lose situation to me.

@ Noodle-Armed Choir Boy

Wikipedia:
Stupidity is the quality or condition of being stupid, or lacking intelligence, as opposed to being merely ignorant or uneducated

Since Winslop users have at least something between their ears, just being down right ignorant better describes them.

Man, people on here can't even admit to the fact that testing on an open platform with hundreds of thousands of hardware and software combinations is exponentially more difficult than testing a dozen or so combinations of hardware and software that was all built in-house.

Yes it's exponentially more difficult to test all the combinations.

And MS has to either face the challenge and test those combinations, or better manage their product so there are few combinations to support.

Shipping a half-baked, half-tested product that's widely breaking is inexcusable, even for MS.

MS needs to either get in control of their own management, or shut the company down.

If someone buys a Ford and it breaks down every week, will they buy a Ford next time? No, but for some reason logic goes out the window when it comes to their PC.

It's worse than that.

Imagine an automaker that intentionally mis-repaired cars (or issued "updates" that caused problems), with the idea of disgusting customers into buying new vehicles.

Even the worst-managed auto company could see the folly with that plan, and the certainity of alienating far more customers than making new sales.

Yet things carry on as usual at MS....

May 10, 08 - 06:47 pm Comment from: LateRegistrant

The wow restarts now, and now, and now....

windows rocks. stop your whining. why would anyone want to use a mac when so much more software is available for Windows.

May 10, 08 - 07:21 pm Comment from: Scott in Japan

@choo

Bless you

@ChrisM - Fair enough assumption. However, I have a Mac. It is partitioned to run Windows. I'd never buy a PC. I also didn't mean to attack you personally. My point was, and still is, that MS MUST make sure its versions of Windows (and subsequent SPs) work with all the different boxes. MS took on that challenge when it licensed to all IBM clones. MS is a sinking ship. Can't wait to hear all the excuses from MS lovers.

MW (since I forgot to login): Rest- Put MS to rest, already.

why would anyone want to use a mac when so much more software is available for Windows.

Because Macs don't constantly reboot.

All the software means nothing when the OS is broken. Nevermind that the only app that matters on Windows is Office. One could argue games, but the consoles (incl. MS's own XBox) weakens the point.

May 10, 08 - 10:35 pm Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

Microsoft seems to continually fsck themselves into oblivion. Ballmer should be dragged out of the poor example of a tech company by his wagging tongue. At the rate things are going, Apple will be big enough to buy Microsoft in a few years and rid the world of the POS operating systems that continue to crap out.

Long live Apple.

[Man, people on here can't even admit to the fact that testing on an open platform with hundreds of thousands of hardware and software combinations is exponentially more difficult than testing a dozen or so combinations of hardware and software that was all built in-house. My point is not to say it's okay for Microsoft to release crappy products, I'm just stating a truth. If someone cannot admit that, then I'd call them a fanboy.]

Please. What is a person — if not an MS-apologist — if he can't admit that:

MS CHOOSE to 'support and accomodate, thousands of hardware and software combinations' — INCLUDING developing Mac software — why is it their customer's fault that they have a difficult time doing so?

Why is the public's fault that MS can't say no to every box-maker out there?

Why is MS so willingly to take all the money, on a promise they can't/won't keep.

Yet another great scenario to use on a Get a Mac commercial.

I installed SP3 on 4 systems with no problems whatever. I did have to remove my custom boot screen. Which is really dumb, but what can you do.

May 11, 08 - 01:48 am Comment from: MacMan

People stay with Windoze mostly out of ignorance and fear. It used to be that they would have to buy all new hardware (remember ADB anyone?) and software (before Virtualization), but those reasons no longer hold water.

So, what's left is ignorance and/or fear of the unknown. And this is truly sad...

Well, maybe we'll get lucky and Micro$oft will issue another service pack which will simply destroy XP installs and no one will have any choice but to turn to Macs.

Or maybe Apple will make a commercial about infinitely rebooting XP SP3 installs...

Man, people on here can't even admit to the fact that testing on an open platform with hundreds of thousands of hardware and software combinations is exponentially more difficult than testing a dozen or so combinations of hardware and software that was all built in-house.

Which means testing/supporting Windows Vista (assuming it's not already dead), with it's several versions, will be several times again more complex than XP. No wonder MS can't get anything released.

MS CHOOSE to 'support and accomodate, thousands of hardware and software combinations' — INCLUDING developing Mac software — why is it their customer's fault that they have a difficult time doing so?

Agreed.

It's like people excusing an automaker for building junk, because that maker has too many models & option combinations to support. WTF??

There's a saying: Don't make excuses, just make it right. MS needs to do just that, or get out of the OS business. It's that simple.

"At this point, I want to clarify that the endless rebooting is not at all related to SP3 per se," Johansson wrote.

The reboot problem stems from how HP configured their machines which have AMD processors. This isn't a problem with SP3. Read the damn article before posting, morons.

I've installed SP3 on several PROPERLY CONFIGURED machines and it works fine.