“For the opening piece in our series on Gates leaving daily life at Microsoft, one goal was to give a clear picture of the Microsoft co-founder’s role inside the company, as a gauge of the impact his departure will have,” Todd Bishop writes for The Seattle Post-Intelligencer’s Microsoft Blog. “As part of that, I went back through the internal e-mails turned over in the antitrust suits against the company, looking for new insights into his personality.”
Bishop found a doozy, which also happens to illustrate perfectly why Mac users have such disdain for the “Windows experience.” If you’ve ever been subject to Windows, you’ll recognize just how typical an example the following email provides. In his full article, Bishop reports what Gates said last week when he asked him about the following message:
—- Original Message —-
From: Bill Gates
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:05 AM
To: Jim Allchin
Cc: Chris Jones (WINDOWS); Bharat Shah (NT); Joe Peterson; Will Poole; Brian Valentine; Anoop Gupta (RESEARCH)
Subject: Windows Usability Systematic degradation flame
I am quite disappointed at how Windows Usability has been going backwards and the program management groups don’t drive usability issues.
Let me give you my experience from yesterday.
I decided to download (Moviemaker) and buy the Digital Plus pack … so I went to Microsoft.com. They have a download place so I went there.
The first 5 times I used the site it timed out while trying to bring up the download page. Then after an 8 second delay I got it to come up.
This site is so slow it is unusable.
It wasn’t in the top 5 so I expanded the other 45.
These 45 names are totally confusing. These names make stuff like: C:\Documents and Settings\billg\My Documents\My Pictures seem clear.
They are not filtered by the system … and so many of the things are strange.
I tried scoping to Media stuff. Still no moviemaker. I typed in movie. Nothing. I typed in movie maker. Nothing.
So I gave up and sent mail to Amir saying – where is this Moviemaker download? Does it exist?
So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.
They told me to go to the main page search button and type movie maker (not moviemaker!).
I tried that. The site was pathetically slow but after 6 seconds of waiting up it came.
I thought for sure now I would see a button to just go do the download.
In fact it is more like a puzzle that you get to solve. It told me to go to Windows Update and do a bunch of incantations.
This struck me as completely odd. Why should I have to go somewhere else and do a scan to download moviemaker?
So I went to Windows update. Windows Update decides I need to download a bunch of controls. (Not) just once but multiple times where I get to see weird dialog boxes.
Doesn’t Windows update know some key to talk to Windows?
Then I did the scan. This took quite some time and I was told it was critical for me to download 17megs of stuff.
This is after I was told we were doing delta patches to things but instead just to get 6 things that are labeled in the SCARIEST possible way I had to download 17meg.
So I did the download. That part was fast. Then it wanted to do an install. This took 6 minutes and the machine was so slow I couldn’t use it for anything else during this time.
What the heck is going on during those 6 minutes? That is crazy. This is after the download was finished.
Then it told me to reboot my machine. Why should I do that? I reboot every night — why should I reboot at that time?
So I did the reboot because it INSISTED on it. Of course that meant completely getting rid of all my Outlook state.
So I got back up and running and went to Windows Updale again. I forgot why I was in Windows Update at all since all I wanted was to get Moviemaker.
So I went back to Microsoft.com and looked at the instructions. I have to click on a folder called WindowsXP. Why should I do that? Windows Update knows I am on Windows XP.
What does it mean to have to click on that folder? So I get a bunch of confusing stuff but sure enough one of them is Moviemaker.
So I do the download. The download is fast but the Install takes many minutes. Amazing how slow this thing is.
At some point I get told I need to go get Windows Media Series 9 to download.
So I decide I will go do that. This time I get dialogs saying things like “Open” or “Save”. No guidance in the instructions which to do. I have no clue which to do.
The download is fast and the install takes 7 minutes for this thing.
So now I think I am going to have Moviemaker. I go to my add/remove programs place to make sure it is there.
It is not there.
What is there? The following garbage is there. Microsoft Autoupdate Exclusive test package, Microsoft Autoupdate Reboot test package, Microsoft Autoupdate testpackage1. Microsoft AUtoupdate testpackage2, Microsoft Autoupdate Test package3.
Someone decided to trash the one part of Windows that was usable? The file system is no longer usable. The registry is not usable. This program listing was one sane place but now it is all crapped up.
But that is just the start of the crap. Later I have listed things like Windows XP Hotfix see Q329048 for more information. What is Q329048? Why are these series of patches listed here? Some of the patches just things like Q810655 instead of saying see Q329048 for more information.
What an absolute mess.
Moviemaker is just not there at all.
So I give up on Moviemaker and decide to download the Digital Plus Package.
I get told I need to go enter a bunch of information about myself.
I enter it all in and because it decides I have mistyped something I have to try again. Of course it has cleared out most of what I typed.
I try (typing) the right stuff in 5 times and it just keeps clearing things out for me to type them in again.
So after more than an hour of craziness and making my programs list garbage and being scared and seeing that Microsoft.com is a terrible website I haven’t run Moviemaker and I haven’t got the plus package.
The lack of attention to usability represented by these experiences blows my mind. I thought we had reached a low with Windows Network places or the messages I get when I try to use 802.11. (don’t you just love that root certificate message?)
When I really get to use the stuff I am sure I will have more feedback.
Full article, in which Bishop reports what Gates said last week when he asked him about the email, here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Readers “Tomek” and “Anthony” for the heads up.]
MacDailyNews Take: Here are some of the words that Bill Gates used to describe his “Windows experience” in a single email: disappointed, backwards, unusable, totally confusing, strange, pathetic, completely odd, weird, scary, crazy, slow, garbage, not usable, crapped up, crap, absolute mess, craziness, terrible, and lack of attention. That sums it all up nicely, doesn’t it? And this was XP, the ancient OS that the unenlightened today want to inflict upon themselves for years more in order to avoid the Vista morass! For Windows-only users who’ve stumbled here via Google News and other points. Welcome! The moral of the story: Get a Mac.
If only the rest of the windows world would read this. Everyone I talk to who owns a PC has mentioned that once their computer reaches end of life they will be switching to a mac. Hopefully that time will come sooner then later….
@moitey “uses XP not Vista.”
Read the date “Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:05 AM” 4 years before Vista was released. Boy dont you feel embarrassed!!!
What numbnuts you are….If your going to flame get the date timeline right.
“so I went to Microsoft.com. They have a download place so I went there.”
He doesn’t even know what Microsoft.com looks like or how it works?!?!? Pathetic! It just shows how out of touch he is as……..whatever his title is these days.
This smells of a anti-Microsoft writer. I highly doubt Gates actually wrote it, and would suspect someone is sitting back laughing out loud about how stupid this publication (and this site) is for falling for the farce.
This isn’t the style of Gates to email information like this. Consider it a waste of space on your screen.
It sounds like things got a bit out of control even for him, I wonder if in the last few years he was secretly disgusted with the current condition of Windows. Probably why he’s getting out, more then the family and charity, he knows windows is out of control and he wants out before it bombs…
I would bet the farm that there is nobody that is more dedicated to the Mac than I.
However, I do appreciate Microsoft’s achievements and efforts although I just know that Apple will do it better.
But please, before we jump all over MS, Gates and partners take into account that this article centers around an email that was generated nearly 5 and a half years ago.
If only I could take back some of the things that I did yesterday, never mind over half a decade ago.
You guys really outta stay away from the KOOLAID!!!! To reach this far back for something to throw out and believe this is real is plain hateful. Be careful… you just might wake up and realize that this is who you really are.
That is EXACTLY how the Windows experience is. I’ve had to use it for the past 8 years and it’s a frustrating experience. Everything is complex and confusing. It’s like banging you head up against a wall.
I recall reading a story involving one of Ballmer’s close friends wrestling with his Windows PC. Ballmer took a crack at it (right, the “sales guy” is going to fix it?). No luck. Ballmer called in one of his crack engineers. He couldn’t fix it either.
A former colleague of mine, who frequently mocked my subtle suggestion he check out the Mac, suffered a series of “authentication” errors on his Windows PC. After four hours with tech support (in India) his PC wouldn’t boot at all. Fed up, he went to the Apple Store. He’s now running a 24″ iMac.
Not that I ever download anything from Microsoft except office updates, but to be fair, this email is dated April 2003.
Things might be better over on the Windows side in 2008?
Is this guy the visionary…it sounds as if he is someone using it for the first time…or, is Windows really just that bad that the CEO can’t get around on something he envisioned. Personally, would have fire the whole team after the second sentence.
This is really crazy and really sums it all up…now it’s life in Ballmerland.
This was hard for me to read.
At first, it was like a whiff from the dumpster caught while eating.
Then, it was my stomach tightening, as beads of sweat began to form
And my heart rate went up.
But I kept reading.
The tightening in my head….make it stop!
Breathing was increasing, shallow but rapid.
this was all to familiar, the darkness, the emptiness
The helplessness….
It was all coming back.
My Windows experiences, like a trance that I couldn’t snap out of.
Is it a coincidence that I quit smoking and drinking since I switched?
I used to think so.
Not anymore.
I understand why Windows sucks….and that’s why I use a Mac. But is it really our responsibility to convert every Windows user? Is it our job to persuade them? Frankly, I don’t think it is. I don’t want everybody to switch. If everyone is using a Mac, don’t we loose that nice, tight knit community that originally brought us to the Mac? Don’t we lose the excellent service? Don’t we expose the platform to more of Microsoft’s problems, problems that stem from having more than a few millions? What I am wondering is, if Windows goes away completely, how does that benefit us Mac users? Perhaps more important is, how will the hurt us? Apple is doing tremendously with a single digit market share. Apple is on a smaller scale than Microsoft. What I am trying to ask is, how does Photoshopping lame images of Bill Gates as a way of mocking hundreds of millions of people benefit us? How does acting like a bunch of snobby, complaining Mac users help us rid ourselves of our image of being snobby, complaining Mac users?
I apologize for writing in all questions, but I’m really interested in what you guys think. Please reply with your opinions, I’d really appreciate it.
“Crash
@moitey “uses XP not Vista.”
Read the date “Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:05 AM” 4 years before Vista was released. Boy dont you feel embarrassed!!!
What numbnuts you are….If your going to flame get the date timeline right.”
really? after all that from Billy G all you have is that a poster didn’t read the date? seriously? that is your defense? omg that is funny….
“You guys really outta stay away from the KOOLAID!!!! To reach this far back for something to throw out and believe this is real is plain hateful. Be careful… you just might wake up and realize that this is who you really are.”
this far back? you mean all the way back to the OS that most windows users are *still* running? even though 5 years have passed they are *still* running xp and we are the ones drinking koolaid?!?
ok, before this i thought you were just a troll, but now i *know* you are a fake. not even a windows uber-fanboy is that stupid. good game till now, you had me going!
This one example that MDN provides of some poor sap’s frustration with Microsoft is easily matched with one of numerous complaints at Apple forums. A quick perusal of Apple consumer complaints reveal many Mac users insisting that Apple is failing in product design. manufacturing, or customer service.
Here are three unanswered and unsolved complaints of Mac users:
If you think about it, using MDN fanboi logic, Microsoft could easily say that Microsoft is only slightly, minimally, marginally, barely worse than Apple. So much for the myth of Apple superiority.
Bad part is, he knows the quality of his product, but he still keeps selling it. I think his philanthropy should start with the people who made him rich and he should take direct and immediate action to unscrew their lives. Gates should give a new Mac mini to every current user of Vista or XP. MS could probably get a deal from Apple for around $400 per machine. Talk about alleviating suffering in the world.
Another amazing thing, to me at least, is that MS employees do this stuff knowing that their geeky boss just might try to use the crap they are producing and they still expect to remain employed. And apparently do. It may be that MS is so large and convoluted organizationally that they can’t figure out who to fire. Or it may be their corporate position is that “Everybody is responsible for the user experience”, which, unfortunately, means that no one is authorized to figure out how high to set the bar, so it just lays on the ground.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Gates just decided to fix his own life and started bringing a MacBook to work? We should feel sympathy for him. It’s the one thing in the world he can’t do!
oh he, he he – go and be a spoil sport. This is the big cheese at MSFT we are talking about, not the little guy, like Ballmer or your dad or my friends with their Windows computer issues.
No machine or software is perfect. Hopefully AAPL and MSFT will address their issues and make things right. Coding happens.
There is no way that the email was Bill Gate’s personal experience. It is written in a context that refers to products in ways that Bill would never refer to them as. No matter how BAD a product is, Bill would never call it crap. No matter how obscure updates to Windows or Movie Maker or whatever, to think that he actually dislikes the naming and would reveal that in an email is giving him way too much credit in terms of actually expecting him to point out what ordinary people say everyday. If Bill really thought any of the things listed in this email, you can bet your bottom dollar that the behaviors would have changed. The only conclusion you can draw is that if this was an email from a customer, that they must have purposely ignored what was written, because Vista isn’t any better.
This e-mail from Bill Gates would be a great Mac PC TV advertisement.
If they broke the facts of the e-mail into mini advertisements/story and put them in sequence, it would be real funny and informative. And it is in Bill Gates ‘s own words.
Are they going to get a dancing monkey for their TV ads soon. The PC guy could crank a music box that looks like a Zune and the monkey could dance around while they talk.
They better be thankful for abusing their monopoly to force users and businesses into unreasonable and pricey license agreements, otherwise they would’ve been out of business ages ago.
And this proves what?? My friends, a few weeks ago, a coworker ordered a scanner for his iMac from a well known retailer who specializes in Mac hardware and software. AFTER 2
HOURS we finally got the thing to work on his iMac!! Two hours of goofy messges and spinning beach balls and, most of all, the scanner doing nothing.
Now this is not a typical experience with the iMac. In fact it is very untypical or I would not have an iMac myself. Just as is Mr. Gates experience. Most of the people I know with Windows computers, and that includes VISTA, have no significant problems and they computers work well for them.
Time to come back to reality
Why do so many Apple users think they have to build up Apple by putting down Microsoft? This reminds me of Jr. High jerks.
Has anything gotten better? Well, Movie Maker download comes up as the number 2 choice when doing a search on their site. Of course, they still have 90,100 other results. Apparently, if they can’t amaze you with quality they’ll overwhelm you with quantity.
Well, it’s entirely possible that Bill DID send that email, considering he doesn’t even deny it in the article – heck, he even says writing those emails was his ‘job’ at MS.
It would seem to me that MS simply lacks the spirit to improve itself, because its corporate nature prefers being static and ‘good enough’ as opposed to Apple/Steve’s zealous drive to improve the computing experience.
This email sums up perfectly the reasons why I switched to a 15″ G4 PowerBook in 2005, heh.
The e-mail is quite genuine. Bill Gates has confirmed as much in different places, and this has also been corroborated by many Microsoft developers. Creative CEOs (i.e. those who don’t live their corporate life in ivory towers, pulling strings and directing their minions to do everything that’s beneath them) tend to often dig deep into the product itself, test it themselves, put it through its paces from consumer’s perspective. Steve Jobs does it, Bill Gates does it, as do many others.
The most important point of this message wasn’t what Gates found out about microsoft.com, Windows Update, ‘Add/Remove Programmes’, etc. It is the fact that five years after he found out about it, and fumed at his developers (and seniour management), essentially nothing got done. This is the true measure of Microsoft.
Ya know, on reading this email it’s obvious Bill G has _no_ idea how a computer (or the internet) works: he is befuddled by downloading files; he is confused as to what a machine does while installing software; he is outraged that he has to restart a machine and has no idea why that might have to happen after software install….
Obviously Windows is not making any of this easier, but God, come on: I mean, I know why these things happen and he’s in charge of the biggest software company on earth and doesn’t?! He sounds about as tech literate as my mother–in fact maybe less so!!
That’s just sad….
“Why do so many Apple users think they have to build up Apple by putting down Microsoft?”
Because they are:
1. stupid
2. ignorant
3. insecure
4. biased
5. hypocritical
6. illogical
7. fearful
8. unimaginative
9. any combination of the above
10. all of the above (i.e Ampar, MCCFR, Jubei – my apologies to the remaining fanbois that I choose not to include in this list of Mac morons – you know who you are so get over it.]
And to all those conspiracy guys (who believe this is fake), the e-mail was subpeonaed by the prosecution during the anti-trust trials and is on public record of the case (check the list of ‘Government Exhibits’, i.e. evidence as presented by the prosecution, here. You’ll have to sift through them in order to find this particular one, though, as the titles are sequential numbers). For people with a lot of free time, you’ll learn fascinating things about Microsoft by reading through some of this eveidence.
I think the most staggering fact of all – out of this – is that even the CEO’s complaints get lost in the bureaucratic morass. MS is really a company that moves BACKWARDS.
Instead of evolving, MS devolves with every iteration.
Plus, I’m not surprised Bill rebooted every night, as leaving Windows chugging along indefinitely would irreversibly damage it.
There is a point when you get bored of re-installing the ENTIRE OS every four/six months, afterall.
OS X was Apple’s ‘clean slate’. Vista is MS’s decent into oblivion.
Man oh man. No matter how bad the Microsoft user experience is, the apologists still come out and defend it. It’s amazing. There is no way in hell that an Apple user would have this much difficulty in downloading a piece of software….NO WAY IN HELL!!! Of course, the Windows fan boys wouldn’t know because they don’t use Mac OS X. In the finder’s Apple menu, there are 2 options you can select:
Software Update
Mac OS X Software
Both take you the exact place you need to be to download the software you need or are looking for. Friggin simple. Windows sufferers have to spend hours just to find the right piece of software. This is demonstrated in the experience the supposed genius Bill Gates had. Still, Windows apologists (sufferers) still come out to defend their beloved OS.
The nice thing about Bill Gates having this bad of an experience with Windows is that you know that he made sure that people in the company heard about it and, hopefully, they’ll do something about it.
I cut the guy some slack. MS is a huge company and no one could keep their finger in every pie. Besides that, if you think Steve Jobs hasn’t written some similar e-mails (or taken some similar elevator rides), I bet you’d be sadly mistaken. That’s how things improve.
All that being said, I think it’s a wonderful illustration of what’s wrong with Windows. Ouch!
“In fact, it is well known that Apple has closed several forums where criticism has been too embarrassing to the company. Here is one example of Apple failing to take responsibility for its misdeeds owing to its embarrassingly public debacle.”
No it isn’t.
As per Apple’s Terms of Use for its Discussion Forums, Apple has made it quite clear what is allowed to be posted and what if the conditions that you agreed to are not met, you post will be deleted.
We have followed up on this ’embarassing’ issue and have yet to find any evidence that it is real. As one will find, tracing back on the links discloses that it is from a couple individuals who are repeating the same thing. The initial issue related to a hardware that should have been directed somewhere else.
To state that, “A quick perusal of Apple consumer complaints reveal many Mac users insisting that Apple is failing in product design. manufacturing, or customer service. Apple is failing,” is true only if you don’t bother to read the forums thoroughly and follow up on the links.
As a previously high level contributor to the forum, it became quite discouraging reading some of postings because it was obvious that the writer didn’t know what they were doing in the first place and compounded their issues by not doing some basic reading. Unfortunately, instead of keeping the discussions in the ‘help’ mode as conditioned by Apple, they would turn to rants–more often than not by the same individual(s) who trolled the site.
To suggest that Apple has to rely on closing any forum because it is embarrassing belies the fact that Apple is regarded at the top of every customer service and support survey.
By the way, perhaps you should also look up the word, “public.” Or are you suggesting that a handful of discontented bloggers is the norm. My knowledge in statistical inference would suggest otherwise.
Bezoar has posted a link directly to the mesage thread where BG message originated. The thread is a fascinating read, as it clearly demonstrates MS’s bureaucratic morass. Senior managers bounce the issue back and forth in an effort to dump ownership of the issue BG brought up on someone else.
Five years later, nothing is done. You will still struggle to get that MovieMaker download (it’s burried somewhere on Windows Media download page). I guess they preferred the ‘band-aid’ solution)…
Your list so describes PC users not Mac users and I’ll tell you why:
PC users are stupid because they tolerate Windows problems and even defend MS’s slipshod work.
PC users are ignorant because most have not even tried another platform so instead choose to continued to be abused by MS and bad-mouth other platforms.
PC users are insecure & fearful because all the buzz is about OS X and Macs and they are frighted to see that, what they smugly thought was the only platform of consequence, is train wreak that is being abandoned in droves.
PC users are biased and illogical evidenced by their defense of their platform even in the light of seeing a clearly better alternative.
PC users are hypocritical because they call Mac users Kool-aid drinkers when in truth, to stick to and defend using Windows, one has to truly drink deep from the Kool-aid wells in Redmond.
Lastly, PC users are unimaginative evidenced by their lack of appreciation for aesthetics in hardware and software design.
Microsoft deserves ridicule, they have cost the world BILLIONS of dollars with their nightmarishly insecure and mediocre products that require expensive licenses, huge IT management costs and untold hours of lost productivity.
Bill’s secret wish has always been to take over for Steve after Jobs finally decides to retire so he can finally openly use a Mac.
Seriously, what more proof that Windows keep following the Mac OS does one need than the fact that ‘Documents and Settings’ was finally changed to ‘Users’ in Vista? And they say they are ‘innovating’?
If this is true, it is brilliant. Give someone some distance and then they can look objectively at what they built. If Windows is going to be around in 5-10 years, it needs to be made drop-dead simple. Is it possible? Not likely! But sometimes people need a swift kick in the pants.
@Richie,
“This smells of a anti-Microsoft writer. I highly doubt Gates actually wrote it, and would suspect someone is sitting back laughing out loud about how stupid this publication (and this site) is for falling for the farce.
This isn’t the style of Gates to email information like this. Consider it a waste of space on your screen.”
Its government evidence in the most recent Microsoft trial. MS trolls are getting desperate. ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
No slack! This disgusting excuse of a human being essentially bullied his stolen, kludge of an operating system into a monopoly and has been amply rewarded with a personal cash horde amounting to tens of Billions of dollars. No slack!
@Predrag
Funny thing about your link… all the exhibits you speak of predate this particular email by a minimum of 4 years. So unless the DOJ or Bill gates has a time warp…. well I think you can figure out the rest.
Any more thoughts???
keep an open mind
THINK DIFFERENT!
I’ve always listened to that video of Bill talking about the Mac thinking yeah he gets it there, why doesn’t he get it for MS. Well I listen again and I realize, while he’s praising the Mac, he really doesn’t get it.
It’s not that it’s really different or captures the imagination, it’s that IT FREAKIN WORKS. Usability has got to be the foundation of a product, everything else falls in line after that. It’s not that its just different, it has to work well. Only then will people become enamored by it.
Amazing that some people having read the above, think the emails were fake. Did they happen to read that the emails were from the antitrust suit? The information in the lawsuit wasn’t released five years ago, that’s why it’s taken so long for people to plow thru them.
@Thomas
Your list so describesMac users not PCusers and I’ll tell you why:
Mac users are stupid because they tolerate Windows problems and even defend MS’s slipshod work.
Mac users are ignorant because most have not even tried another platform so instead choose to continued to be abused by MS and bad-mouth other platforms.
Mac users are insecure & fearful because all the buzz is about Vista and PC and they are frighted to see that, what they smugly thought was the only platform of consequence, is train wreak that is being abandoned in droves.
Mac users are biased and illogical evidenced by their defense of their platform even in the light of seeing a clearly better alternative.
Mac users are hypocritical because they call PC users Kool-aid drinkers when in truth, to stick to and defend using Macs, one has to truly drink deep from the Kool-aid wells in Curpitino.
Lastly, Macusers are unimaginative evidenced by their lack of appreciation for aesthetics in hardware and software design.
Mac deserves ridicule, they have cost the world BILLIONS of dollars with their nightmarishly mediocre products that require expensive licenses, huge IT management costs and untold hours of lost productivity.
So eat it.
There I fixed your post for ya
Really you shouldnt be so hard on your brethren…
THINK DIFFERENT
What I really love about this is YOU HAVE NO DEFENSE FOR THE POINT OF THIS ARTICLE – MS’S OWN CEO IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR OWN PRODUCTS!. All you can do is resort to name calling. Defend Microsoft in light of the email referenced above.
This is so much this site…. I love coming here to play with you Apple fanbois… When are you going to get new material though???
This PC envy is really getting a little stale.
Oh And you really oughta pay attention to whats happen out in the real world… Trojan’s appear to be running wild. Watch those porn sites. theyll get you in the end…
THINK DIFFERENT
“As per Apple’s Terms of Use for its Discussion Forums, Apple has made it quite clear what is allowed to be posted and what if the conditions that you agreed to are not met, you post will be deleted.”
Here’s Apple’s very own words. “At any time Apple may change, add, or remove any part of this Agreement or any part of the services and features provided at the Site.”
Hmm, so Apple can arbitrarily censure negative comments. That’s what I said, so you agree with me. Apple engages in manipulating public perception and distorting reality to preserve the sanctity of its corporate image.
I thought that a more honest and intellectual company would be able to post the “truth” rather than suppress free expression of dissatisfaction with Apple hardware, software, or customer service.
Hey crash, rather ironic your name is what your computer of choice does best. Nothing more pathetic that someone trolling a site with no real intrest in the subject other than to dis the folks there.
“Watch those porn sites. theyll get you in the end…” – you would now eh!
“Why do so many Apple users think they have to build up Apple by putting down Microsoft?”
Because if Windows weren’t so awful, the Mac OS would be even better than it is today. Microsoft’s complacency and inertia weighs the whole industry down. Even Apple.
Question…Why does a Mac site have som much negativity toward Windows? 2 of the 5 top posts are about Microsoft.
Rather telling about the thinking going on in this site.
Keep punching folks
Keep missing.
THINK DIFFERENT
Leave the trolls alone. They are just high school boys that are mad at their parents for switching from the crash happy Windows box that they played games on to a Mac that actually works. They kept telling their parents “I can fix it, I can fix it!”… but Windows is just too broken to be fixed… but their feelings get hurt anyway… so they are lashing out and we happen to be the victim of their juvenile rants.
Boo ho “Ho ho ho” et al, go name call elsewhere before mommy calls you away from the ‘puter for dinner. Also; save a few bucks and buy WoW for Mac…. that will get your gaming fix going again. It’s like a pacifier for a baby… shuts them up every time.
To answer your question, most Mac users here used to be Windows users and they remember the hellacious experiences attributed to the Windows experience, similar to the one described in the email. They wish for all computer users to be free of the miseries imparted by Microsoft. Even Bill Gates.
I always like to show this image to my Windows friends:
It is is a 1985 letter from Bill Gates to Andy Hertzfeld in regards to Switcher. It is also proof positive that Bill Gates once used a Macintosh. The letter was clearly printed by an Apple ImagWriter.
Maybe now that Bill is retiring, he can “Get a Mac”.
I have to laugh at posters like Ho, ho, ho, who think that calling people names will get them riled up and mad.
Sorry. Not only do I NOT care what you think, but I quit letting name calling bother me in junior high.
But hey. Keep trying if you think it’ll make you “look good.” What do you get out of that anyway? Some sort of sick satisfaction? Does that satisfaction make you money or something?
Seems kind of hollow to me. But to each their own if it gets your rocks off. Pshhhh.
Appears I’m the only one who noticed this basic fact, or least the only one to write about it:
Gates needs to re-take 8th Grade English Composition
He writes like a 6th Grader
(but, nevertheless, is probably over the head of many of those posting here since their skills are at about 5th Grade level ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
No wonder Windows is convoluted, verbose, and full of crap
The Main Guy can’t communicate in coherent and concise English – which is amplified in the language of computer speak
@ AAPLguy
So your part of the 5 percent failure rate. Sounds about right 5% and there is 2.75 percent true Mac users.
By the way by the numbers of the 1 billion computers out there 93 percent is Windows. Now that figures 930 million PC’s to what 70 million Macs?!?! Hmmmm someone is happy with Windows!
THINK DIFFERENT
I think it is the height of irony that an obvious Dose boy as yourself, would post those items on an OS X site. All of those items so clearly apply to you, and anyone else like you, who posts this type of jealous drivel to this site. It’s simply incredible you don’t see and understand it.
BSOD
Bill Gates even said onstage at Apple with Steve Jobs as the MC that he would by his mther a Mac. Circa 1984 I think.
What you didnt know that one.
Keep em coming….
They mean nothing….
THINK DIFFERENT
By the way, anyone here know where the drink mix koolaid was invented??? Comeon now…. You should know this one….. I mean how much you consume around here…..
“Kool-Aid was invented by Edwin Perkins and his wife Kitty in Hastings, Nebraska, USA. Its predecessor was a liquid concentrate called Fruit Smack. To reduce shipping costs, in 1927, Perkins discovered a way to remove the liquid from Fruit Smack, leaving only a powder. This powder was named Kool-Ade Perkins moved his production to Chicago in 1931 and Kool-Aid was sold to General Foods in 1953.”
P.S. Jim Jones used cyanide laced Flavor Aid and not Kool-Aid. Lemming suicide is also a myth. They do not periodically follow one another off a cliff into the sea.
the best part about this email is how descriptive gates is on his experience. while i finding a great deal of joy reading this it really is a shame that gates isn’t familiar with the usibility of his products. it shows that he’s sadly disconnected.
Oh my the forum cops are out to get me…You “buy” something for your mother not “by.” A clear example of PC users level of knowledge”
Go back to your koolaid…
Its funny watching the windows users defend a crappy product. If there is at all a hint of truth to the aforementioned email by BG then holy crap they go into attack mode. They won’t even entertain the idea that it maybe legit which is sad. As stated earlier their are allot of switchers – but not only from Windows but also from Linux which I am (used both windows / linux). In my opinion Think Different means investigating all avenues without personal subjectiveness and coming up with an objective conclusion. I doubt very highly that any of those who are commenting right now have done that…all they care about is playing video games…
I’ve seen “Crash” comment on this article far more than anyone else. Why don’t you make some friends and do something besides comment on a website where nobody likes you.
By the way….I’m sorry that you’re resentful over the fact that you own a PC. Yes, there are fanboys that are way too obsessed with Apple, but statistics and research have proven the Mac to be far more reliable than Windows. That goes the same for customer service and customer satisfaction. Apple constantly sets the standard and is highest in the industry. SO WAKE UP LOSER! Mac customers have a reason to tout how much better the Mac is…..they actually have evidence to prove it. Your whole rant about market share was worthless as well. Only a small percentage of a people are fortunate enough to own a Mac. Only a small percentage of people are fortunate enough to own a BMW. The rest drive Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc. The rest use a PC…..but many are realizing it’s worth paying a little extra upfront to purchase a Mac rather than spending that money over time with repairs for a Windows computer.
The founder of the personal computer is writing about how much of a mess Windows is and here you are on some Mac news site trying to defend it…..
@”Crash” Needs to GET A LIFE —- amen brother….the only i would add is that apple have now made it affordable to the masses…its no longer as large as a disparity as it used to be…but..
I love when PC fanboys hypocritically throw out the “Kool-Aid” comments.
But I guess I’ll take it as a compliment if by “Kool-Aid” you mean “facts and evidence”—-because that’s something that Mac enthusiasts have on their side!
This is getting more insane by the post…. a 5 year old email that may or may not have been part of a court action in 2004, that may or may not have been written by Bill Gates illicits over a 100 responses…. man you Mac fanbois are reaching deep,
Why are you so paranoid about your failings that you must spew garbage like this???
Your weewee to small??? or is it your Mommy didnt breast feed you??? Or maybe you were picked on in school???
Look out the skies falling… run and hide!!!!
@”Crash” Needs to GET A LIFE – First because they lost the argument – they have nothing to say so they will start stereotyping. Secondly they have never used a mac – specifically OSX or any Linux variant. They play video games on their machine and thats about it. The next argument you will hear is how much better a PC is at playing video games, grant it they will ignore the fact that a PC configured correctly for playing video games is a hell of allot more expensive then a mac…..Its allot cheaper to get a PS3 then to buy a high end PC to play games on….
Is this the best ya got??? Come on….. youre the the elite… the best of the best… you eat silk and shit gold…
What a bunch of winners you are….
Steve is so proud of you….
keep puching….
keep missing….
THINK DIFFERENT
friends and do something besides comment on a website where nobody likes you.
Ahhh now im crushed…. I thought you loved me…. What a dick
My life is right here friend…. pisses on your parade…. and dman I do love a parade.
keep punching……….
keep missing……….
THINK DIFFERENT
Typical. I provided an honest answer to your question, and you return with childish insults and rants. With every post on this board you more vehemently confirm your lack of intelligence, maturity, and absenteeism from your high school English classes.
Microsoft does not design for the typical end user.
They use committees to design stuff for engineers or power users.
20 different committees-one assigned to design the start button, one to design the icon for ie, one to designate colors- can never come up with a simple to use anything.
@AAPLguy
Oh boy im going to helll now….. Cant do dictation, pronunciation, punctuation, cant spell….
Man you wound me..
Chump, youre not even close
keep punching
keep missing
THINK DIFFERENT
How could the TOP GUY AT MS have absolutely no idea of his own company’s products or user experience?!?
Imagine the CEO of a major automaker having to test-drive a car himself to know what he’s putting on the street, then commenting “We make this?”. Yikes.
From: Jim Allchin
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:38 AM
To: Bill Gates; Steve Ballmer
Subject: losing our way…
This is a rant. I’m sorry.
I am not sure how the company lost sight of what matters to our customers (both business and home) the most, but in my view we lost our way. I think our teams lost sight of what bug-free means, what resilience means, what full scenarios mean, what security means, what performance means, how important current applications are, and really understanding what the most important problems [our] customers face are. I see lots of random features and some great vision, but that doesn’t translate onto great products.
I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft. If you run the equivalent of VPC on a MAC you get access to basically all Windows application software (although not the hardware). Apple did not lose their way. You must watch this new video below. I know this doesn’t show anything for businesses, but my point is about the philosophy that Apple uses. They think scenario. They think simple. They think fast. I know there is nothing hugely deep in this.
I must tell you everything in my soul tells me that we should do what I called plan (b) yesterday We need a simple fast storage system. LH is a pig and I don’t see any solution to this problem. If we are to rise to the challenge of Linux and Apple, we need to start taking the lessons of “scenario, simple, fast” to heart.
As part of one of Microsoft’s on-going lawsuits, a piece of email that I sent to Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates recently became public. It was a rant encouraging a change to the way we were building Windows at the time. In the email, I made a comment for effect about buying a Mac if I was not working at Microsoft. Taken out of context, this comment could be confusing. Let me set the record straight:
This email is nearly 3 years old, and I was being purposefully dramatic in order to drive home a point. The point being that we needed to change and change quickly. We did: We changed dramatically the development process that was being used and we reset the Windows Vista development project in mid-2004, essentially starting over.
2-and-½ years later, Windows Vista has turned into a phenomenal product, better than any other OS we’ve ever built and far, far better than any other software available today, in my opinion. It’s going to be available to customers on Jan 30, and I suggest everyone go out and get it as soon as you can. It’s that good.
The spirit of being self-critical continues to flourish at Microsoft. Within Microsoft everyone considers it their duty to always put their convictions and our product quality ahead of everything else. That was the intent of my mail to Bill and Steve, and I consider it a great example of how this company can focus and do what’s right for customers.
We did: We changed dramatically the development process that was being used and we reset the Windows Vista development project in mid-2004, essentially starting over.
Well, that worked out well – how much of what Vista originally promised was thrown out in that project re-boot.
2-and-½ years later, Windows Vista has turned into a phenomenal product, better than any other OS we’ve ever built
Hmmm, that’s not actually setting the bar that high – that said Windows 2000 was possibly MSFT’s best OS.
…and far, far better than any other software available today…
Hmmm…there simply isn’t enough time in the rest of my life to explain how deluded Jim must have been when he wrote that.
Can anyone remember the URL of that blog where about 300-400 people concurred with the blogger’s opinion of the hell that was installing Vista.
I suggest everyone go out and get it as soon as you can. It’s that good.
Than why are Intel allegedly skipping Vista altogether.
Ampar
Now do you see how far out this blog is going. There is no integrity. No objective thought. Just hate, loathing, ugly human behavior, and really mean spirited posts.
And we all just go meerily along. Well guess what there is always someone uglier, and meaner than all of ya. ME…..
I will be here. Popping in and out to lay down more garbage on your doorsteps.
THINK DIFFERENT
I think our teams lost sight of what bug-free means, what resilience means, what full scenarios mean, what security means, what performance means, how important current applications are, and really understanding what the most important problems [our] customers face are.
Jim, nothing has been lost. MS never had ANY of these.
I see lots of random features and some great vision, but that doesn’t translate onto great products.
Anyone can visualize, sir.
I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft.
The kiss of death. When even an executive makes a statement like that, the fight is lost.
What’s with all the top brass at MS emailing each-other about how bad things are yadda yadda, instead of putting on the business shoes and making the needed changes??
Imagine a ship heading for the rocks, everyone on the bridge yelling “OMG! We need to change course!”, and nobody grabbing the wheel to make the hard changes. So the fat sweating captain throws some chairs and abuses his crew…
Counterpoint: Imagine the thousands you’ve saved by not having to upgrade all your software from XP all these years. One could buy a Mac on those savings ” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” />
I just hope Snow Leopard doesn’t break my heavy apps. One should pay for upgrades NOT for compatibility but new useful features or power.
And let’s be clear on the irony: Intel was perfectly willing to be a party to a conspiracy which bilked consumers – many of whom are likely to have been on restricted budgets – into buying systems which were supposedly Vista-capable, but – as we now know – is unwilling to inflict Vista as a generally available OS on its own employees.
If you want to know why people on this board hold Microsoft in such contempt, this is the kind of stunt which should explain that to you.
It’s not just their lack of imagination. It’s not just the unbelievable lack of quality in most of their software. And it not just the fact that their operating systems are targeted by over 100,000 viruses and over 100,000 pieces of adware and spyware.
It’s the total lack of any ethical compass.
Need another example: when Microsoft was developing its own anti-spyware software, there was a particular web-tracking company whose software was – quite rightly – listed as spyware in the definitions file. Right until the moment that Microsoft started courting that company as a potential acquisition and then the classification changed from quarantine to ignore.
So when Microsoft didn’t have an interest in Claria, their software was defined as sufficiently onerous to be an issue to consumers, but any such concerns for the privacy of consumer’s web browsing habits completely evaporated in the face of a potentially profitable deal. Classy.
Maybe you need a third example: why won’t Microsoft openly state how many systems that originally shipped with OEM versions of Vista have been up/down/sidegraded (I still can’t work out which is the right description) to XP? They know how many OEM copies of Vista they’ve sold, why can’t they say how many have been activated?
Maybe the most valuable company in the IT industry doesn’t believe that investors (current or prospective) deserve that kind of insight into how well Vista is performing in the marketplace of consumer opinion.
I visit MDN daily to get a round up of Mac news … spooky or kooky that tie in.
I like the news, gossip, MDN’s takes and reading the comments, even the occasional troll shit – real or not.
However, the likes of abfib, crash, ho ho, he he and others are not fair-dinkum PC Microsoft fanboy trolls, the above commentators submit post after post just to dick about with the passion and sensibilities of some Apple Mac users who enviably get sucked into the game … time wasters like ho ho and crash must be laughing their nuts off at us lot.
The comments section is now declining into a bitch’fest with endless posts of pointless guff that is a waste time and only encourages further comebacks, reprisals and counterattacks – It is soooo futile.
Especially when the Apple Mac stands on it’s own merits, we know that, they know that, all the tomfoolery that the agitators throw about is pointless, unless you take the bait.
I propose that MDN block their IP address as they are disruptive and a continuing annoyance, inconvenience and now very boring.
– As dynamic apportionment of IP addresses can complicate things and without a decent anti-proxy script, proxy servers can bypass an IP ban – then I vote that MDN should just delete their posts! –
MDN > “We reserve the right to remove, edit, or move any messages for any reason.”
Interesting idea unless this troll and others like him are encouraged by MDN to generate flame wars and generate page hits for revenue. I hope that’s not the case.
You and your fellow dimwits would like nothing better than an exclusive MDN fanboi circle jerk. The fact you admit it conclusively demonstrates what a pathetically homogeneous ignorant and stupid group you are.
If ya’ll had the mental capacity to counter others’ posts with wit, intelligence, facts, data, and credible sources you would – but you don’t and most likely can’t.
Don’t blame other people for your own deficits and defects, fanboi.
Man, I thought Ampar was the pretentious one. SKYLARK elevates himself/herself as self-appointed Judge, Jury, and Executioner. Pretty hefty title for a nominal nitwit like yourself, SKYLARK.
Where and when did you learn the essential skills to be the Grand Censor of the Internet?
Where and when did you develop the requisite abilities to be the Supreme Digital Dictator?
Where and when did you acquire the credentials to be the The Great Sanctimonious Anus and Regal Rectum of Fanboism?
I’m surprised that you hadn’t chimed earlier. What was holding you back?
The piece is quoted from the Seattle Post Intelligencer or Seattle PI. This is the most legitimate source there is. It used to be a bastion of Microsoft information. I know, I live here.
I don’t see Monkey Boy Ballmer in the CC’s to that memo. Does anyone else find it odd that he wouldn’t be in the CC since he’s taking over the company?
Maybe even Bill realizes “Uncle Fester” is too clueless to bother with.
The last paragraph of this part of the e-mail tells the M$ story in a nutshell:
____
“So I gave up and sent mail to Amir saying – where is this Moviemaker download? Does it exist?
So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.”
__
Late update: this story (credited to MDN, no less!) was featured on NPR’s “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me” news quiz today. I liked the comment that “the person writing got so frustrated that they quit working for the company”! I also like that the listener/contestant knew the answer. This story is getting some traction…
But that is just the start of the crap. Later I have listed things like Windows XP Hotfix see Q329048 for more information. What is Q329048? Why are these series of patches listed here? Some of the patches just things like Q810655 instead of saying see Q329048 for more information.
Could there be a better Get a Mac ad premise than this? Bill Gates can’t use Windows and oh, by the way, he uses XP not Vista.
If only the rest of the windows world would read this. Everyone I talk to who owns a PC has mentioned that once their computer reaches end of life they will be switching to a mac. Hopefully that time will come sooner then later….
OMFG.
It’s worse than I thought.
If it wasn’t Bill Gates, I’d feel sorry for him.
@moitey “uses XP not Vista.”
Read the date “Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:05 AM” 4 years before Vista was released. Boy dont you feel embarrassed!!!
What numbnuts you are….If your going to flame get the date timeline right.
This is a jewel, really!
“so I went to Microsoft.com. They have a download place so I went there.”
He doesn’t even know what Microsoft.com looks like or how it works?!?!? Pathetic! It just shows how out of touch he is as……..whatever his title is these days.
This smells of a anti-Microsoft writer. I highly doubt Gates actually wrote it, and would suspect someone is sitting back laughing out loud about how stupid this publication (and this site) is for falling for the farce.
This isn’t the style of Gates to email information like this. Consider it a waste of space on your screen.
The message is dated “Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:05 AM,” that’s pre-vista release date.
Billy Goats – Sorry – Billy Gates tells it like it is.
It sounds like things got a bit out of control even for him, I wonder if in the last few years he was secretly disgusted with the current condition of Windows. Probably why he’s getting out, more then the family and charity, he knows windows is out of control and he wants out before it bombs…
Funny thing is the guy must have made several million dollars while fighting his computer….
I would bet the farm that there is nobody that is more dedicated to the Mac than I.
However, I do appreciate Microsoft’s achievements and efforts although I just know that Apple will do it better.
But please, before we jump all over MS, Gates and partners take into account that this article centers around an email that was generated nearly 5 and a half years ago.
If only I could take back some of the things that I did yesterday, never mind over half a decade ago.
ha couldn’t have happened to a better person, i see it’s effected him so much that in 6 years it’s actually improved… not
That right there says it all.
If Steve had to deal with that, it would only happen once and there would be so many people fired.
You guys really outta stay away from the KOOLAID!!!! To reach this far back for something to throw out and believe this is real is plain hateful. Be careful… you just might wake up and realize that this is who you really are.
That is EXACTLY how the Windows experience is. I’ve had to use it for the past 8 years and it’s a frustrating experience. Everything is complex and confusing. It’s like banging you head up against a wall.
I recall reading a story involving one of Ballmer’s close friends wrestling with his Windows PC. Ballmer took a crack at it (right, the “sales guy” is going to fix it?). No luck. Ballmer called in one of his crack engineers. He couldn’t fix it either.
A former colleague of mine, who frequently mocked my subtle suggestion he check out the Mac, suffered a series of “authentication” errors on his Windows PC. After four hours with tech support (in India) his PC wouldn’t boot at all. Fed up, he went to the Apple Store. He’s now running a 24″ iMac.
Not that I ever download anything from Microsoft except office updates, but to be fair, this email is dated April 2003.
Things might be better over on the Windows side in 2008?
Office updates seem to go fine……..
Is this guy the visionary…it sounds as if he is someone using it for the first time…or, is Windows really just that bad that the CEO can’t get around on something he envisioned. Personally, would have fire the whole team after the second sentence.
This is really crazy and really sums it all up…now it’s life in Ballmerland.
This was hard for me to read.
At first, it was like a whiff from the dumpster caught while eating.
Then, it was my stomach tightening, as beads of sweat began to form
And my heart rate went up.
But I kept reading.
The tightening in my head….make it stop!
Breathing was increasing, shallow but rapid.
this was all to familiar, the darkness, the emptiness
The helplessness….
It was all coming back.
My Windows experiences, like a trance that I couldn’t snap out of.
Is it a coincidence that I quit smoking and drinking since I switched?
I used to think so.
Not anymore.
I understand why Windows sucks….and that’s why I use a Mac. But is it really our responsibility to convert every Windows user? Is it our job to persuade them? Frankly, I don’t think it is. I don’t want everybody to switch. If everyone is using a Mac, don’t we loose that nice, tight knit community that originally brought us to the Mac? Don’t we lose the excellent service? Don’t we expose the platform to more of Microsoft’s problems, problems that stem from having more than a few millions? What I am wondering is, if Windows goes away completely, how does that benefit us Mac users? Perhaps more important is, how will the hurt us? Apple is doing tremendously with a single digit market share. Apple is on a smaller scale than Microsoft. What I am trying to ask is, how does Photoshopping lame images of Bill Gates as a way of mocking hundreds of millions of people benefit us? How does acting like a bunch of snobby, complaining Mac users help us rid ourselves of our image of being snobby, complaining Mac users?
I apologize for writing in all questions, but I’m really interested in what you guys think. Please reply with your opinions, I’d really appreciate it.
“Crash
@moitey “uses XP not Vista.”
Read the date “Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:05 AM” 4 years before Vista was released. Boy dont you feel embarrassed!!!
What numbnuts you are….If your going to flame get the date timeline right.”
really? after all that from Billy G all you have is that a poster didn’t read the date? seriously? that is your defense? omg that is funny….
“You guys really outta stay away from the KOOLAID!!!! To reach this far back for something to throw out and believe this is real is plain hateful. Be careful… you just might wake up and realize that this is who you really are.”
this far back? you mean all the way back to the OS that most windows users are *still* running? even though 5 years have passed they are *still* running xp and we are the ones drinking koolaid?!?
ok, before this i thought you were just a troll, but now i *know* you are a fake. not even a windows uber-fanboy is that stupid. good game till now, you had me going!
This one example that MDN provides of some poor sap’s frustration with Microsoft is easily matched with one of numerous complaints at Apple forums. A quick perusal of Apple consumer complaints reveal many Mac users insisting that Apple is failing in product design. manufacturing, or customer service.
Here are three unanswered and unsolved complaints of Mac users:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1558322&tstart=0
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1563077&tstart=0
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1346290&tstart=0
In fact, it is well known that Apple has closed several forums where criticism has been too embarrassing to the company. Here is one example of Apple failing to take responsibility for its misdeeds owing to its embarrassingly public debacle.
If you think about it, using MDN fanboi logic, Microsoft could easily say that Microsoft is only slightly, minimally, marginally, barely worse than Apple. So much for the myth of Apple superiority.
Bad part is, he knows the quality of his product, but he still keeps selling it. I think his philanthropy should start with the people who made him rich and he should take direct and immediate action to unscrew their lives. Gates should give a new Mac mini to every current user of Vista or XP. MS could probably get a deal from Apple for around $400 per machine. Talk about alleviating suffering in the world.
Another amazing thing, to me at least, is that MS employees do this stuff knowing that their geeky boss just might try to use the crap they are producing and they still expect to remain employed. And apparently do. It may be that MS is so large and convoluted organizationally that they can’t figure out who to fire. Or it may be their corporate position is that “Everybody is responsible for the user experience”, which, unfortunately, means that no one is authorized to figure out how high to set the bar, so it just lays on the ground.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Gates just decided to fix his own life and started bringing a MacBook to work? We should feel sympathy for him. It’s the one thing in the world he can’t do!
“So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.”
LMAO! Millions NOT using their OS will not be anticipated by them in due time…
“If it wasn’t Bill Gates, I’d feel sorry for him”
As Bill is supposedly a very nice guy, I will feel sorry for him.
However, now that he’s retiring, he can use that $40 billion to pay someone to do his software downloads for him. Or, he could just switch to Mac.
shen
Little man you still here? Dont you have some cartoons to watch?
Keep punching…..
Keep missing…..
oh he, he he – go and be a spoil sport. This is the big cheese at MSFT we are talking about, not the little guy, like Ballmer or your dad or my friends with their Windows computer issues.
No machine or software is perfect. Hopefully AAPL and MSFT will address their issues and make things right. Coding happens.
“As Bill is supposedly a very nice guy, I will feel sorry for him.”
Tell it to any of the people he robbed.
-jcr
Where is Zune Tang when we need him??? (lol)
There is no way that the email was Bill Gate’s personal experience. It is written in a context that refers to products in ways that Bill would never refer to them as. No matter how BAD a product is, Bill would never call it crap. No matter how obscure updates to Windows or Movie Maker or whatever, to think that he actually dislikes the naming and would reveal that in an email is giving him way too much credit in terms of actually expecting him to point out what ordinary people say everyday. If Bill really thought any of the things listed in this email, you can bet your bottom dollar that the behaviors would have changed. The only conclusion you can draw is that if this was an email from a customer, that they must have purposely ignored what was written, because Vista isn’t any better.
This e-mail from Bill Gates would be a great Mac PC TV advertisement.
If they broke the facts of the e-mail into mini advertisements/story and put them in sequence, it would be real funny and informative. And it is in Bill Gates ‘s own words.
Are they going to get a dancing monkey for their TV ads soon. The PC guy could crank a music box that looks like a Zune and the monkey could dance around while they talk.
They better be thankful for abusing their monopoly to force users and businesses into unreasonable and pricey license agreements, otherwise they would’ve been out of business ages ago.
And this proves what?? My friends, a few weeks ago, a coworker ordered a scanner for his iMac from a well known retailer who specializes in Mac hardware and software. AFTER 2
HOURS we finally got the thing to work on his iMac!! Two hours of goofy messges and spinning beach balls and, most of all, the scanner doing nothing.
Now this is not a typical experience with the iMac. In fact it is very untypical or I would not have an iMac myself. Just as is Mr. Gates experience. Most of the people I know with Windows computers, and that includes VISTA, have no significant problems and they computers work well for them.
Time to come back to reality
Why do so many Apple users think they have to build up Apple by putting down Microsoft? This reminds me of Jr. High jerks.
Bills problems are just beginning. Moviemaker is a total waste of time.
Has anything gotten better? Well, Movie Maker download comes up as the number 2 choice when doing a search on their site. Of course, they still have 90,100 other results. Apparently, if they can’t amaze you with quality they’ll overwhelm you with quantity.
“So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.”
Greatest. Line. Ever.
Well, it’s entirely possible that Bill DID send that email, considering he doesn’t even deny it in the article – heck, he even says writing those emails was his ‘job’ at MS.
It would seem to me that MS simply lacks the spirit to improve itself, because its corporate nature prefers being static and ‘good enough’ as opposed to Apple/Steve’s zealous drive to improve the computing experience.
This email sums up perfectly the reasons why I switched to a 15″ G4 PowerBook in 2005, heh.
Josh
next time try Vuescan.
Maybe you shouldn’t have to, but it still usually works with most scanners.
plus, it is great software.
Sounded about average for my experience of Windows…
(And to the poster who doubted its real, don’t doubt, it was provided to the courts as evidence).
I love this part,
“Then it told me to reboot my machine. Why should I do that? I reboot every night — why should I reboot at that time?”
He REBOOTS every night! Why? I never reboot OS X except at major software updates, typically months apart.
Sad. Just sad.
to Richie:
The e-mail is quite genuine. Bill Gates has confirmed as much in different places, and this has also been corroborated by many Microsoft developers. Creative CEOs (i.e. those who don’t live their corporate life in ivory towers, pulling strings and directing their minions to do everything that’s beneath them) tend to often dig deep into the product itself, test it themselves, put it through its paces from consumer’s perspective. Steve Jobs does it, Bill Gates does it, as do many others.
The most important point of this message wasn’t what Gates found out about microsoft.com, Windows Update, ‘Add/Remove Programmes’, etc. It is the fact that five years after he found out about it, and fumed at his developers (and seniour management), essentially nothing got done. This is the true measure of Microsoft.
Ya know, on reading this email it’s obvious Bill G has _no_ idea how a computer (or the internet) works: he is befuddled by downloading files; he is confused as to what a machine does while installing software; he is outraged that he has to restart a machine and has no idea why that might have to happen after software install….
Obviously Windows is not making any of this easier, but God, come on: I mean, I know why these things happen and he’s in charge of the biggest software company on earth and doesn’t?! He sounds about as tech literate as my mother–in fact maybe less so!!
That’s just sad….
JoshtheMacGuy:
“Why do so many Apple users think they have to build up Apple by putting down Microsoft?”
Because they are:
1. stupid
2. ignorant
3. insecure
4. biased
5. hypocritical
6. illogical
7. fearful
8. unimaginative
9. any combination of the above
10. all of the above (i.e Ampar, MCCFR, Jubei – my apologies to the remaining fanbois that I choose not to include in this list of Mac morons – you know who you are so get over it.]
And to all those conspiracy guys (who believe this is fake), the e-mail was subpeonaed by the prosecution during the anti-trust trials and is on public record of the case (check the list of ‘Government Exhibits’, i.e. evidence as presented by the prosecution, here. You’ll have to sift through them in order to find this particular one, though, as the titles are sequential numbers). For people with a lot of free time, you’ll learn fascinating things about Microsoft by reading through some of this eveidence.
It’s comforting to know the captain of the ship has noticed these problems as well. For a while, I thought everything was working “normally” for him!
Why could I possibly think that? “…they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.”
That’s why!
I think the most staggering fact of all – out of this – is that even the CEO’s complaints get lost in the bureaucratic morass. MS is really a company that moves BACKWARDS.
Instead of evolving, MS devolves with every iteration.
Plus, I’m not surprised Bill rebooted every night, as leaving Windows chugging along indefinitely would irreversibly damage it.
There is a point when you get bored of re-installing the ENTIRE OS every four/six months, afterall.
OS X was Apple’s ‘clean slate’. Vista is MS’s decent into oblivion.
Man oh man. No matter how bad the Microsoft user experience is, the apologists still come out and defend it. It’s amazing. There is no way in hell that an Apple user would have this much difficulty in downloading a piece of software….NO WAY IN HELL!!! Of course, the Windows fan boys wouldn’t know because they don’t use Mac OS X. In the finder’s Apple menu, there are 2 options you can select:
Software Update
Mac OS X Software
Both take you the exact place you need to be to download the software you need or are looking for. Friggin simple. Windows sufferers have to spend hours just to find the right piece of software. This is demonstrated in the experience the supposed genius Bill Gates had. Still, Windows apologists (sufferers) still come out to defend their beloved OS.
Stockholm Syndrome indeed!!!
“Little man you still here? Dont you have some cartoons to watch?
Keep punching…..
Keep missing…..”
sorry didn’t mean to give away the new cover for “zune tang”
keep up the good work!
@Ho, ho, ho
“You’re once, twice, three times a Ho”
my apologies to Lionel Richie
Here’s the entire thread from whence this email purportedly came:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/library/2003Jangatesmoviemaker.pdf
It was buried in internal documents turned over to the court by Microsoft. Looks legit to me.
The nice thing about Bill Gates having this bad of an experience with Windows is that you know that he made sure that people in the company heard about it and, hopefully, they’ll do something about it.
AAPLguy,
All of the above for you, too, fanboi. No need to apologize for your defects, we all understand.
I cut the guy some slack. MS is a huge company and no one could keep their finger in every pie. Besides that, if you think Steve Jobs hasn’t written some similar e-mails (or taken some similar elevator rides), I bet you’d be sadly mistaken. That’s how things improve.
All that being said, I think it’s a wonderful illustration of what’s wrong with Windows. Ouch!
“So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.”
Yeah, that’s where my head would have exploded.
To He He He re:
“In fact, it is well known that Apple has closed several forums where criticism has been too embarrassing to the company. Here is one example of Apple failing to take responsibility for its misdeeds owing to its embarrassingly public debacle.”
No it isn’t.
As per Apple’s Terms of Use for its Discussion Forums, Apple has made it quite clear what is allowed to be posted and what if the conditions that you agreed to are not met, you post will be deleted.
We have followed up on this ’embarassing’ issue and have yet to find any evidence that it is real. As one will find, tracing back on the links discloses that it is from a couple individuals who are repeating the same thing. The initial issue related to a hardware that should have been directed somewhere else.
To state that, “A quick perusal of Apple consumer complaints reveal many Mac users insisting that Apple is failing in product design. manufacturing, or customer service. Apple is failing,” is true only if you don’t bother to read the forums thoroughly and follow up on the links.
As a previously high level contributor to the forum, it became quite discouraging reading some of postings because it was obvious that the writer didn’t know what they were doing in the first place and compounded their issues by not doing some basic reading. Unfortunately, instead of keeping the discussions in the ‘help’ mode as conditioned by Apple, they would turn to rants–more often than not by the same individual(s) who trolled the site.
To suggest that Apple has to rely on closing any forum because it is embarrassing belies the fact that Apple is regarded at the top of every customer service and support survey.
By the way, perhaps you should also look up the word, “public.” Or are you suggesting that a handful of discontented bloggers is the norm. My knowledge in statistical inference would suggest otherwise.
Bezoar has posted a link directly to the mesage thread where BG message originated. The thread is a fascinating read, as it clearly demonstrates MS’s bureaucratic morass. Senior managers bounce the issue back and forth in an effort to dump ownership of the issue BG brought up on someone else.
Five years later, nothing is done. You will still struggle to get that MovieMaker download (it’s burried somewhere on Windows Media download page). I guess they preferred the ‘band-aid’ solution)…
If he didn’t learn his lesson back then, he still won’t learn it now. Get a Mac.
” . . . they would turn to rants–more often than not by the same individual(s) who trolled the site.”
Gee, that sounds AWFULLY familiar. Hmmm.
Who could it be?
Keeping digging that hole, troll.
@Ho, ho, ho.
Your list so describes PC users not Mac users and I’ll tell you why:
PC users are stupid because they tolerate Windows problems and even defend MS’s slipshod work.
PC users are ignorant because most have not even tried another platform so instead choose to continued to be abused by MS and bad-mouth other platforms.
PC users are insecure & fearful because all the buzz is about OS X and Macs and they are frighted to see that, what they smugly thought was the only platform of consequence, is train wreak that is being abandoned in droves.
PC users are biased and illogical evidenced by their defense of their platform even in the light of seeing a clearly better alternative.
PC users are hypocritical because they call Mac users Kool-aid drinkers when in truth, to stick to and defend using Windows, one has to truly drink deep from the Kool-aid wells in Redmond.
Lastly, PC users are unimaginative evidenced by their lack of appreciation for aesthetics in hardware and software design.
Microsoft deserves ridicule, they have cost the world BILLIONS of dollars with their nightmarishly insecure and mediocre products that require expensive licenses, huge IT management costs and untold hours of lost productivity.
So eat it.
Bill’s secret wish has always been to take over for Steve after Jobs finally decides to retire so he can finally openly use a Mac.
Seriously, what more proof that Windows keep following the Mac OS does one need than the fact that ‘Documents and Settings’ was finally changed to ‘Users’ in Vista? And they say they are ‘innovating’?
Gotta love this quote:
“So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.”
This comment from the original article is priceless:
Posted by unregistered user at 6/24/08 5:45 p.m.
The Steve Jobs version:
“If the MovieMaker download site isn’t working by tomorrow at 6 am I will come down there at 6:01 am an choke the living ___ out of all of you.”
(edit required by seattlepi)
> > >
Sometimes being a benevolent dictator is not such a bad thing.
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If this is true, it is brilliant. Give someone some distance and then they can look objectively at what they built. If Windows is going to be around in 5-10 years, it needs to be made drop-dead simple. Is it possible? Not likely! But sometimes people need a swift kick in the pants.
@Richie,
“This smells of a anti-Microsoft writer. I highly doubt Gates actually wrote it, and would suspect someone is sitting back laughing out loud about how stupid this publication (and this site) is for falling for the farce.
This isn’t the style of Gates to email information like this. Consider it a waste of space on your screen.”
Its government evidence in the most recent Microsoft trial. MS trolls are getting desperate.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”grin” style=”border:0;” />
en
@ndelc
No slack! This disgusting excuse of a human being essentially bullied his stolen, kludge of an operating system into a monopoly and has been amply rewarded with a personal cash horde amounting to tens of Billions of dollars. No slack!
@Predrag
Funny thing about your link… all the exhibits you speak of predate this particular email by a minimum of 4 years. So unless the DOJ or Bill gates has a time warp…. well I think you can figure out the rest.
Any more thoughts???
keep an open mind
THINK DIFFERENT!
Unbelievable! Hilarious, really, and utterly validating.
I cannot stand to even look at a PC screen anymore.
Such a waste!
I’ve always listened to that video of Bill talking about the Mac thinking yeah he gets it there, why doesn’t he get it for MS. Well I listen again and I realize, while he’s praising the Mac, he really doesn’t get it.
It’s not that it’s really different or captures the imagination, it’s that IT FREAKIN WORKS. Usability has got to be the foundation of a product, everything else falls in line after that. It’s not that its just different, it has to work well. Only then will people become enamored by it.
Amazing that some people having read the above, think the emails were fake. Did they happen to read that the emails were from the antitrust suit? The information in the lawsuit wasn’t released five years ago, that’s why it’s taken so long for people to plow thru them.
@Ho,ho,ho
I am wondering if you are are a boi or grl. And are you a not an ardent fan of MS and Windows?
What U B callin my peeps fanbois, fanboi!
@Thomas
Your list so describesMac users not PCusers and I’ll tell you why:
Mac users are stupid because they tolerate Windows problems and even defend MS’s slipshod work.
Mac users are ignorant because most have not even tried another platform so instead choose to continued to be abused by MS and bad-mouth other platforms.
Mac users are insecure & fearful because all the buzz is about Vista and PC and they are frighted to see that, what they smugly thought was the only platform of consequence, is train wreak that is being abandoned in droves.
Mac users are biased and illogical evidenced by their defense of their platform even in the light of seeing a clearly better alternative.
Mac users are hypocritical because they call PC users Kool-aid drinkers when in truth, to stick to and defend using Macs, one has to truly drink deep from the Kool-aid wells in Curpitino.
Lastly, Macusers are unimaginative evidenced by their lack of appreciation for aesthetics in hardware and software design.
Mac deserves ridicule, they have cost the world BILLIONS of dollars with their nightmarishly mediocre products that require expensive licenses, huge IT management costs and untold hours of lost productivity.
So eat it.
There I fixed your post for ya
Really you shouldnt be so hard on your brethren…
THINK DIFFERENT
@Ho, ho, ho
What I really love about this is YOU HAVE NO DEFENSE FOR THE POINT OF THIS ARTICLE – MS’S OWN CEO IS COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR OWN PRODUCTS!. All you can do is resort to name calling. Defend Microsoft in light of the email referenced above.
I’m waiting.
“So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.”
That statement describes the Microsoft mentality perfectly
See Zune Tang!? Even Bill Gates ‘gets it.’ When are you going to get it?
This is so much this site…. I love coming here to play with you Apple fanbois… When are you going to get new material though???
This PC envy is really getting a little stale.
Oh And you really oughta pay attention to whats happen out in the real world… Trojan’s appear to be running wild. Watch those porn sites. theyll get you in the end…
THINK DIFFERENT
“As per Apple’s Terms of Use for its Discussion Forums, Apple has made it quite clear what is allowed to be posted and what if the conditions that you agreed to are not met, you post will be deleted.”
Here’s Apple’s very own words. “At any time Apple may change, add, or remove any part of this Agreement or any part of the services and features provided at the Site.”
Hmm, so Apple can arbitrarily censure negative comments. That’s what I said, so you agree with me. Apple engages in manipulating public perception and distorting reality to preserve the sanctity of its corporate image.
I thought that a more honest and intellectual company would be able to post the “truth” rather than suppress free expression of dissatisfaction with Apple hardware, software, or customer service.
Sure, it happened 5 years ago. Have things improved? Probably a bit, but not much.
Why would Gates know how to use Windows? He is a smart guy, he’s probably been secretly using a Mac for years.
@He, he, he.
“At any time Apple may change, add, or remove any part of this Agreement or any part of the services and features provided at the Site.“
How is a post in a discussion forum part of the Agreement or the services and features?
Read the terms of use agreement again, and find someone to explain the big words to you.
Hey crash, rather ironic your name is what your computer of choice does best. Nothing more pathetic that someone trolling a site with no real intrest in the subject other than to dis the folks there.
“Watch those porn sites. theyll get you in the end…” – you would now eh!
err he’s in school today actually!
he’ll be around later though.
(he does have a Mac, he does all his media stuff, music photos’ movies – games too)!
JoshtheMacGuy:
“Why do so many Apple users think they have to build up Apple by putting down Microsoft?”
Because if Windows weren’t so awful, the Mac OS would be even better than it is today. Microsoft’s complacency and inertia weighs the whole industry down. Even Apple.
Question…Why does a Mac site have som much negativity toward Windows? 2 of the 5 top posts are about Microsoft.
Rather telling about the thinking going on in this site.
Keep punching folks
Keep missing.
THINK DIFFERENT
Leave the trolls alone. They are just high school boys that are mad at their parents for switching from the crash happy Windows box that they played games on to a Mac that actually works. They kept telling their parents “I can fix it, I can fix it!”… but Windows is just too broken to be fixed… but their feelings get hurt anyway… so they are lashing out and we happen to be the victim of their juvenile rants.
Boo ho “Ho ho ho” et al, go name call elsewhere before mommy calls you away from the ‘puter for dinner. Also; save a few bucks and buy WoW for Mac…. that will get your gaming fix going again. It’s like a pacifier for a baby… shuts them up every time.
The Dude abides.
@ Crash
To answer your question, most Mac users here used to be Windows users and they remember the hellacious experiences attributed to the Windows experience, similar to the one described in the email. They wish for all computer users to be free of the miseries imparted by Microsoft. Even Bill Gates.
I always like to show this image to my Windows friends:
It is is a 1985 letter from Bill Gates to Andy Hertzfeld in regards to Switcher. It is also proof positive that Bill Gates once used a Macintosh. The letter was clearly printed by an Apple ImagWriter.
Maybe now that Bill is retiring, he can “Get a Mac”.
I have to laugh at posters like Ho, ho, ho, who think that calling people names will get them riled up and mad.
Sorry. Not only do I NOT care what you think, but I quit letting name calling bother me in junior high.
But hey. Keep trying if you think it’ll make you “look good.” What do you get out of that anyway? Some sort of sick satisfaction? Does that satisfaction make you money or something?
Seems kind of hollow to me. But to each their own if it gets your rocks off. Pshhhh.
Appears I’m the only one who noticed this basic fact, or least the only one to write about it:
Gates needs to re-take 8th Grade English Composition
He writes like a 6th Grader
(but, nevertheless, is probably over the head of many of those posting here since their skills are at about 5th Grade level
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No wonder Windows is convoluted, verbose, and full of crap
The Main Guy can’t communicate in coherent and concise English – which is amplified in the language of computer speak
If not so sad would be hilarious
BC
@ AAPLguy
So your part of the 5 percent failure rate. Sounds about right 5% and there is 2.75 percent true Mac users.
By the way by the numbers of the 1 billion computers out there 93 percent is Windows. Now that figures 930 million PC’s to what 70 million Macs?!?! Hmmmm someone is happy with Windows!
THINK DIFFERENT
@Ho, ho, ho:
I think it is the height of irony that an obvious Dose boy as yourself, would post those items on an OS X site. All of those items so clearly apply to you, and anyone else like you, who posts this type of jealous drivel to this site. It’s simply incredible you don’t see and understand it.
BSOD
Bill Gates even said onstage at Apple with Steve Jobs as the MC that he would by his mther a Mac. Circa 1984 I think.
What you didnt know that one.
Keep em coming….
They mean nothing….
THINK DIFFERENT
By the way, anyone here know where the drink mix koolaid was invented??? Comeon now…. You should know this one….. I mean how much you consume around here…..
Hint………….think nebraska
“Kool-Aid was invented by Edwin Perkins and his wife Kitty in Hastings, Nebraska, USA. Its predecessor was a liquid concentrate called Fruit Smack. To reduce shipping costs, in 1927, Perkins discovered a way to remove the liquid from Fruit Smack, leaving only a powder. This powder was named Kool-Ade Perkins moved his production to Chicago in 1931 and Kool-Aid was sold to General Foods in 1953.”
(Excerpt from wikipedia.)
So, to answer your question, yes.
P.S. Jim Jones used cyanide laced Flavor Aid and not Kool-Aid. Lemming suicide is also a myth. They do not periodically follow one another off a cliff into the sea.
Ampar
Very good…. you get a cookie!
the best part about this email is how descriptive gates is on his experience. while i finding a great deal of joy reading this it really is a shame that gates isn’t familiar with the usibility of his products. it shows that he’s sadly disconnected.
Hey Crash,
You “buy” something for your mother not “by.” A clear example of PC users level of knowledge.
Oh my the forum cops are out to get me…You “buy” something for your mother not “by.” A clear example of PC users level of knowledge”
Go back to your koolaid…
Its funny watching the windows users defend a crappy product. If there is at all a hint of truth to the aforementioned email by BG then holy crap they go into attack mode. They won’t even entertain the idea that it maybe legit which is sad. As stated earlier their are allot of switchers – but not only from Windows but also from Linux which I am (used both windows / linux). In my opinion Think Different means investigating all avenues without personal subjectiveness and coming up with an objective conclusion. I doubt very highly that any of those who are commenting right now have done that…all they care about is playing video games…
I’ve seen “Crash” comment on this article far more than anyone else. Why don’t you make some friends and do something besides comment on a website where nobody likes you.
By the way….I’m sorry that you’re resentful over the fact that you own a PC. Yes, there are fanboys that are way too obsessed with Apple, but statistics and research have proven the Mac to be far more reliable than Windows. That goes the same for customer service and customer satisfaction. Apple constantly sets the standard and is highest in the industry. SO WAKE UP LOSER! Mac customers have a reason to tout how much better the Mac is…..they actually have evidence to prove it. Your whole rant about market share was worthless as well. Only a small percentage of a people are fortunate enough to own a Mac. Only a small percentage of people are fortunate enough to own a BMW. The rest drive Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc. The rest use a PC…..but many are realizing it’s worth paying a little extra upfront to purchase a Mac rather than spending that money over time with repairs for a Windows computer.
The founder of the personal computer is writing about how much of a mess Windows is and here you are on some Mac news site trying to defend it…..
@”Crash” Needs to GET A LIFE —- amen brother….the only i would add is that apple have now made it affordable to the masses…its no longer as large as a disparity as it used to be…but..
AMEN brother..
I love when PC fanboys hypocritically throw out the “Kool-Aid” comments.
But I guess I’ll take it as a compliment if by “Kool-Aid” you mean “facts and evidence”—-because that’s something that Mac enthusiasts have on their side!
This is getting more insane by the post…. a 5 year old email that may or may not have been part of a court action in 2004, that may or may not have been written by Bill Gates illicits over a 100 responses…. man you Mac fanbois are reaching deep,
Why are you so paranoid about your failings that you must spew garbage like this???
Your weewee to small??? or is it your Mommy didnt breast feed you??? Or maybe you were picked on in school???
Look out the skies falling… run and hide!!!!
@”Crash” Needs to GET A LIFE – First because they lost the argument – they have nothing to say so they will start stereotyping. Secondly they have never used a mac – specifically OSX or any Linux variant. They play video games on their machine and thats about it. The next argument you will hear is how much better a PC is at playing video games, grant it they will ignore the fact that a PC configured correctly for playing video games is a hell of allot more expensive then a mac…..Its allot cheaper to get a PS3 then to buy a high end PC to play games on….
Is this the best ya got??? Come on….. youre the the elite… the best of the best… you eat silk and shit gold…
What a bunch of winners you are….
Steve is so proud of you….
keep puching….
keep missing….
THINK DIFFERENT
I love this comment posted on the subject blog entry:
The Steve Jobs version:
"If the MovieMaker download site isn't working by tomorrow at 6 am I will come down there at 6:01 am an choke the living ___ out of all of you."
(edit required by seattlepi)
It’s funny because it’s true!
friends and do something besides comment on a website where nobody likes you.
Ahhh now im crushed…. I thought you loved me…. What a dick
My life is right here friend…. pisses on your parade…. and dman I do love a parade.
keep punching……….
keep missing……….
THINK DIFFERENT
@Crash
Typical. I provided an honest answer to your question, and you return with childish insults and rants. With every post on this board you more vehemently confirm your lack of intelligence, maturity, and absenteeism from your high school English classes.
Microsoft does not design for the typical end user.
They use committees to design stuff for engineers or power users.
20 different committees-one assigned to design the start button, one to design the icon for ie, one to designate colors- can never come up with a simple to use anything.
@AAPLguy
Oh boy im going to helll now….. Cant do dictation, pronunciation, punctuation, cant spell….
Man you wound me..
Chump, youre not even close
keep punching
keep missing
THINK DIFFERENT
@ Crash
No not Hell. Just waiting in limbo for the promotion to “Fries” at Burger King.
How could the TOP GUY AT MS have absolutely no idea of his own company’s products or user experience?!?
Imagine the CEO of a major automaker having to test-drive a car himself to know what he’s putting on the street, then commenting “We make this?”. Yikes.
It’s a wonder MS could function at all.
Your weewee to small???
Your mom didn’t think so!
You gotta hear the dramatic reading by a Seattle radio host:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/142032.asp
From: Jim Allchin
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:38 AM
To: Bill Gates; Steve Ballmer
Subject: losing our way…
This is a rant. I’m sorry.
I am not sure how the company lost sight of what matters to our customers (both business and home) the most, but in my view we lost our way. I think our teams lost sight of what bug-free means, what resilience means, what full scenarios mean, what security means, what performance means, how important current applications are, and really understanding what the most important problems [our] customers face are. I see lots of random features and some great vision, but that doesn’t translate onto great products.
I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft. If you run the equivalent of VPC on a MAC you get access to basically all Windows application software (although not the hardware). Apple did not lose their way. You must watch this new video below. I know this doesn’t show anything for businesses, but my point is about the philosophy that Apple uses. They think scenario. They think simple. They think fast. I know there is nothing hugely deep in this.
http://www.apple.com/ilife/video/ilife04_32C.html [Note: link no longer works]
I must tell you everything in my soul tells me that we should do what I called plan (b) yesterday We need a simple fast storage system. LH is a pig and I don’t see any solution to this problem. If we are to rise to the challenge of Linux and Apple, we need to start taking the lessons of “scenario, simple, fast” to heart.
jim
——
From http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2006/12/12/title.aspx
As part of one of Microsoft’s on-going lawsuits, a piece of email that I sent to Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates recently became public. It was a rant encouraging a change to the way we were building Windows at the time. In the email, I made a comment for effect about buying a Mac if I was not working at Microsoft. Taken out of context, this comment could be confusing. Let me set the record straight:
This email is nearly 3 years old, and I was being purposefully dramatic in order to drive home a point. The point being that we needed to change and change quickly. We did: We changed dramatically the development process that was being used and we reset the Windows Vista development project in mid-2004, essentially starting over.
2-and-½ years later, Windows Vista has turned into a phenomenal product, better than any other OS we’ve ever built and far, far better than any other software available today, in my opinion. It’s going to be available to customers on Jan 30, and I suggest everyone go out and get it as soon as you can. It’s that good.
The spirit of being self-critical continues to flourish at Microsoft. Within Microsoft everyone considers it their duty to always put their convictions and our product quality ahead of everything else. That was the intent of my mail to Bill and Steve, and I consider it a great example of how this company can focus and do what’s right for customers.
jim
—-
We did: We changed dramatically the development process that was being used and we reset the Windows Vista development project in mid-2004, essentially starting over.
Well, that worked out well – how much of what Vista originally promised was thrown out in that project re-boot.
2-and-½ years later, Windows Vista has turned into a phenomenal product, better than any other OS we’ve ever built
Hmmm, that’s not actually setting the bar that high – that said Windows 2000 was possibly MSFT’s best OS.
…and far, far better than any other software available today…
Hmmm…there simply isn’t enough time in the rest of my life to explain how deluded Jim must have been when he wrote that.
Can anyone remember the URL of that blog where about 300-400 people concurred with the blogger’s opinion of the hell that was installing Vista.
I suggest everyone go out and get it as soon as you can. It’s that good.
Than why are Intel allegedly skipping Vista altogether.
> So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.
Priceless. I couldn’t stop laughing at that line…
Crash: WTF?
Ampar
Now do you see how far out this blog is going. There is no integrity. No objective thought. Just hate, loathing, ugly human behavior, and really mean spirited posts.
And we all just go meerily along. Well guess what there is always someone uglier, and meaner than all of ya. ME…..
I will be here. Popping in and out to lay down more garbage on your doorsteps.
THINK DIFFERENT
I think our teams lost sight of what bug-free means, what resilience means, what full scenarios mean, what security means, what performance means, how important current applications are, and really understanding what the most important problems [our] customers face are.
Jim, nothing has been lost. MS never had ANY of these.
I see lots of random features and some great vision, but that doesn’t translate onto great products.
Anyone can visualize, sir.
I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft.
The kiss of death. When even an executive makes a statement like that, the fight is lost.
What’s with all the top brass at MS emailing each-other about how bad things are yadda yadda, instead of putting on the business shoes and making the needed changes??
Imagine a ship heading for the rocks, everyone on the bridge yelling “OMG! We need to change course!”, and nobody grabbing the wheel to make the hard changes. So the fat sweating captain throws some chairs and abuses his crew…
You couldn’t make a movie better than this.
Counterpoint: Imagine the thousands you’ve saved by not having to upgrade all your software from XP all these years. One could buy a Mac on those savings
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I just hope Snow Leopard doesn’t break my heavy apps. One should pay for upgrades NOT for compatibility but new useful features or power.
Here’s a question for Crash, Afib and the other eight-bit minds…
How can you justify Microsoft and Intel deliberately engaging in a conspiracy to mislead the public over which systems would run Vista?
And let’s be clear on the irony: Intel was perfectly willing to be a party to a conspiracy which bilked consumers – many of whom are likely to have been on restricted budgets – into buying systems which were supposedly Vista-capable, but – as we now know – is unwilling to inflict Vista as a generally available OS on its own employees.
If you want to know why people on this board hold Microsoft in such contempt, this is the kind of stunt which should explain that to you.
It’s not just their lack of imagination. It’s not just the unbelievable lack of quality in most of their software. And it not just the fact that their operating systems are targeted by over 100,000 viruses and over 100,000 pieces of adware and spyware.
It’s the total lack of any ethical compass.
Need another example: when Microsoft was developing its own anti-spyware software, there was a particular web-tracking company whose software was – quite rightly – listed as spyware in the definitions file. Right until the moment that Microsoft started courting that company as a potential acquisition and then the classification changed from quarantine to ignore.
So when Microsoft didn’t have an interest in Claria, their software was defined as sufficiently onerous to be an issue to consumers, but any such concerns for the privacy of consumer’s web browsing habits completely evaporated in the face of a potentially profitable deal. Classy.
Maybe you need a third example: why won’t Microsoft openly state how many systems that originally shipped with OEM versions of Vista have been up/down/sidegraded (I still can’t work out which is the right description) to XP? They know how many OEM copies of Vista they’ve sold, why can’t they say how many have been activated?
Maybe the most valuable company in the IT industry doesn’t believe that investors (current or prospective) deserve that kind of insight into how well Vista is performing in the marketplace of consumer opinion.
Enough is enough.
I visit MDN daily to get a round up of Mac news … spooky or kooky that tie in.
I like the news, gossip, MDN’s takes and reading the comments, even the occasional troll shit – real or not.
However, the likes of abfib, crash, ho ho, he he and others are not fair-dinkum PC Microsoft fanboy trolls, the above commentators submit post after post just to dick about with the passion and sensibilities of some Apple Mac users who enviably get sucked into the game … time wasters like ho ho and crash must be laughing their nuts off at us lot.
The comments section is now declining into a bitch’fest with endless posts of pointless guff that is a waste time and only encourages further comebacks, reprisals and counterattacks – It is soooo futile.
Especially when the Apple Mac stands on it’s own merits, we know that, they know that, all the tomfoolery that the agitators throw about is pointless, unless you take the bait.
I propose that MDN block their IP address as they are disruptive and a continuing annoyance, inconvenience and now very boring.
– As dynamic apportionment of IP addresses can complicate things and without a decent anti-proxy script, proxy servers can bypass an IP ban – then I vote that MDN should just delete their posts! –
MDN > “We reserve the right to remove, edit, or move any messages for any reason.”
Who votes for the BLOCK N’ BAN?
KINK radio in Portland Oregon read some of this hilarious email over the air this morning. They made it into a Mac ad … very funny!
This is just sooooo ironically juicy that it should be read on every radio station, TV news broadcast, etc.
Jolt the lemmings!
“Who votes for the BLOCK N’ BAN?”
Interesting idea unless this troll and others like him are encouraged by MDN to generate flame wars and generate page hits for revenue. I hope that’s not the case.
Ampar,
You and your fellow dimwits would like nothing better than an exclusive MDN fanboi circle jerk. The fact you admit it conclusively demonstrates what a pathetically homogeneous ignorant and stupid group you are.
If ya’ll had the mental capacity to counter others’ posts with wit, intelligence, facts, data, and credible sources you would – but you don’t and most likely can’t.
Don’t blame other people for your own deficits and defects, fanboi.
SKYLARK,
Here are a few clues for you.
1. Don’t respond to posts you don’t want to.
2. Don’t read posts you don’t want to.
Hooray, your “problem” has been solved! That wasn’t so difficult, was it?
Your welcome, fanboi.
Man, I thought Ampar was the pretentious one. SKYLARK elevates himself/herself as self-appointed Judge, Jury, and Executioner. Pretty hefty title for a nominal nitwit like yourself, SKYLARK.
Where and when did you learn the essential skills to be the Grand Censor of the Internet?
Where and when did you develop the requisite abilities to be the Supreme Digital Dictator?
Where and when did you acquire the credentials to be the The Great Sanctimonious Anus and Regal Rectum of Fanboism?
I’m surprised that you hadn’t chimed earlier. What was holding you back?
Richie,
The piece is quoted from the Seattle Post Intelligencer or Seattle PI. This is the most legitimate source there is. It used to be a bastion of Microsoft information. I know, I live here.
I don’t see Monkey Boy Ballmer in the CC’s to that memo. Does anyone else find it odd that he wouldn’t be in the CC since he’s taking over the company?
Maybe even Bill realizes “Uncle Fester” is too clueless to bother with.
The last paragraph of this part of the e-mail tells the M$ story in a nutshell:
____
“So I gave up and sent mail to Amir saying – where is this Moviemaker download? Does it exist?
So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.”
__
DUH!!
Yeah, I enjoy the laughs as much as anyone from time to time, but this is ridiculous. Please moderate this MDN.
So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated.
Ah the magic of MS’s “quest” groups.
Late update: this story (credited to MDN, no less!) was featured on NPR’s “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me” news quiz today. I liked the comment that “the person writing got so frustrated that they quit working for the company”! I also like that the listener/contestant knew the answer. This story is getting some traction…
To the WONDOZZZZ fanboys;
Learn from the master Gates himself … Windows sucks big time.
Enough said.